10 Dec
2001
10 Dec
'01
9:08 a.m.
Let's say a DEC PDP-1 comes up for auction. The economy is good and times
are stable.
What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1?
This is strictly a hypothetical.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
10 Dec
10 Dec
9:36 a.m.
Well if I were using hypothetical dollars, maybe $100,000 to $150,000 :-)
But with real money it would stop bidding after it crossed $1,000. Now I
*could* trade a dozen VAXen for it :-)
I suspect an honorable auction house could get $25,000 for it. Looking at
things that have sold in the past that seems like the "right" price. That
also presumes that it works and is complete. A partial PDP-1 wouldn't be
worth nearly as much and one that didn't have the tube would be worth less
still.
Of course, if you could get TWO truly enthusiastic collectors who would are
independently wealthy into the auction the sky would be the limit.
--Chuck
At 12:08 PM 12/10/01, you wrote:
Let's say a DEC PDP-1 comes up for auction. The
economy is good and times
are stable.
What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1?
This is strictly a hypothetical.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
10:07 a.m.
New subject: Question about older keyboards.
I have an old keyboard with those soldered on keycap assemblies. One of the
key mechanisms broke off and now I'm receiving random characters on the
screen. The missing key is the #3 key. Could the fact that this mechanism is
missing cause this kind of problem, or would the computer see that missing
key as un-pressed but otherwise no problem. Some other part of the keyboard
my be broken but I'm trying to narrow down where to begin trouble shooting.
When I turn the computer on, it sort of runs amuck as though I were pressing
a bunch of random keys but then quiets down after start up but refuses to
let me type anything. Plus, on the screen are 10 to 20 mixed letters and
numbers on the line were I am supposed to enter a command -load, save, run,
etc.
E.
1:16 p.m.
New subject: Question about older keyboards.
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4:49 p.m.
New subject: Question about older keyboards.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 4:17 PM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Question about older keyboards.
I considered this but I don't think that anyone here knows anything about
this keyboard.
It looks like a very simple homemade job -hand soldered anyway. It isn't
wire-wrapped but
close to it.
I have an old keyboard with those soldered on keycap
assemblies. One of the
A general point : Please post the make/model and any other information
that will identify the unit. Somebody may know the exact device you are
talking about, and/or have a service manual for it. key mechanisms
broke off and now I'm receiving random characters on the
screen. The missing key is the #3 key. Could the fact that this
mechanism is
missing cause this kind of problem, or would the
computer see
that missing
It depends : 2) If it's totally missing, and only has 2
connections, then it's a
switch. Having it missing should cause no problems, it will just appear
not to ever be pressed
This is the case on this keyboard. The board has one TI SN74159N chip that
all the keys connect to at one place or another.
It's discription is: 4-LINE TO 16-LINE DECODERS/DEMULTIPLEXERS WITH OPEN
COLLECTOR OUTPUTS. Looking at the keyboard, aside from the missing key
mechanism, the board "looks" OK. It's even dust free. There is one thing
that's interesting but I'm not sure if it's a bad thing or not. There is
what looks like an intentional solder bridge between the 6-7 pins (if the
notch faces away from you, it's on the right side in the middle.)
So, if the keyboard seems to be OK, where would I next look for the cause of
a few random characters being generated on startup? Any tips here will help.
Thanks.
E.
11 Dec
11 Dec
8:13 a.m.
New subject: Question about older keyboards.
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12:57 p.m.
New subject: Question about older keyboards.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 19:13:38 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote:
#OK, the '159 is the open-collector version of the '154. It's a 16 output
#decoder/with open collector outputs. I know it well.
#
#It takes in a 4 bit number, and (in this case) selects one of 16 logical
#columns of keys. Presumanly the keyboard is scanned in software and thus
#the 4 bit number comes from an output port somewhere.
#
#> So, if the keyboard seems to be OK, where would I next look for the cause of
#> a few random characters being generated on startup? Any tips here will help.
Well, if this was a keyboard problem, the 74159 itself could be bad. I just fixed an
Exidy Sorcerer keyboard,
which is made in this very manner (using a 74L154), where some key combinations did not
give the right
results. The 74L154 itself had an internal short.
But, I think we need more information on the machine. Random characters on startup
don't sound like a
keyboard problem. In some cases, this could be normal. What happens after startup? Do
the keys work?
In the Sorcerer, random characters on startup indicate a problem in the video RAM. But
again, it is hard to
guess a cause for a problem without knowing what hardware we are talking about, and having
a much
better description of the problem.
#
#Look the the connections on the keyswitches that do _not_ go to the '159.
#Where do they go to? Presumably via some kind of cable to a chip on the
#mainboard of whatever machine this is. What's that chip?
#
#Do you still get random characters if the machine is turned on with the
#keyboard totally disconnected?
#
#It may not even be a keyboard problem. It might be a RAM/ROM/CPU problem
#(the machine might not be running the monitor program correctly).
#
#-tony
#
Louis
10 Dec
10 Dec
6:50 p.m.
New subject: Question about older keyboards.
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Ernest wrote:
I have an old keyboard with those soldered on keycap assemblies. One of the
key mechanisms broke off and now I'm receiving random characters on the
It is not altogether clear to me whether the entire key mechanism is
missing (broken off or unsoldered from the board) or whether it is only
the key cap. If the latter, there is a good chance that the key cap
acted as a retainer for the retract spring that keeps the switch from
closing with out finger pressure. If this is the case, you might use a
straight pin or equivalent to make sure that the plunger part of the
mechanism is help in the retracted position. Then power up, and note
the results.
If it is the `totally gone' problem, I'd harken to Tony's remarks!
- don
screen. The missing key is the #3 key. Could the fact
that this mechanism is
missing cause this kind of problem, or would the computer see that missing
key as un-pressed but otherwise no problem. Some other part of the keyboard
my be broken but I'm trying to narrow down where to begin trouble shooting.
When I turn the computer on, it sort of runs amuck as though I were pressing
a bunch of random keys but then quiets down after start up but refuses to
let me type anything. Plus, on the screen are 10 to 20 mixed letters and
numbers on the line were I am supposed to enter a command -load, save, run,
etc.
E.
11:59 a.m.
What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1?
This is strictly a hypothetical.
I suppose I could give up $1~2K to assist a _nationally_ recognized
museum (charitable) to get something neat for itself and its visitors.
As for me? the problem is space. I went to someone's garage sale
once where he could house 4 cars abreast and had room for two
more cars sideways in the back. Sorry but that aint my garage.
(If it was, there'd be 1 car and...)
Regarding the bigge$t buck$ for a sale issue, a PDP-1 might go for
less than another machine, even DEC, since so few used one and
therefore would have the pleasant memories.
Are there ever any auctions of computers, period, other than online
or industrial?
John A.
12:24 p.m.
Are there ever any auctions of computers, period, other
than online
or industrial?
Anymore it's most likely to be common PC stuff, but you used
to be able to get some pretty cool non-DOS/WIndows stuff from
government DRMO auctions. Places such as Navy Research Lab in
Washington D.C. had oodles of non-PC stuff, such as NeXT's,
Osborne's, Atari ST's, Amiga's...you name it. Six or seven years ago
I got quite a bit of interesting stuff at such auctions when I was
first starting to really build this collection.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
1:17 p.m.
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
University of Texas surplus auctions were a good place to find old gear up
till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer equipment
Are there ever
any auctions of computers, period, other than online
or industrial?
Anymore it's most likely to be common PC stuff, but you used to be
able to get some pretty cool non-DOS/WIndows stuff from government
DRMO auctions. Places such as Navy Research Lab in Washington D.C.
had oodles of non-PC stuff, such as NeXT's, Osborne's, Atari ST's,
Amiga's...you name it. Six or seven years ago I got quite a bit of
interesting stuff at such auctions when I was first starting to really
build this collection. from government agencies. Now they send all the old
computer gear to the
prison system...I saw 3-4 AS-400 IBM systems about a year ago,
and they
wouldn't auction them off...they sent them to the prisons...Sad thing is,
I imagine they all ended up sold to a scrap metal dealer.
Speaking of auctions in Texas, we have an auction in Houston on Wednesday,
there won't be any computers or monitors in it, but it might have other
stuff worth looking at. I usually end up repairing about 75% of the things
I buy at these auctions before I can use them. I'm planning to attend this
auction unless something comes up. Is there anyone else here who might
show up? Heres a url with more info:
http://www.shattuck.com/Live_Auctions/live_auctions.html
-Toth
7:10 p.m.
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
University of Texas surplus auctions were a good place
to find old
gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer
equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer
gear to the prison system.
Hm. I got a *bunch* of classiccmp stuff from an University of Texas
auction earlier this spring. Maybe the prisons did not want the stuff.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
7:28 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
Which auction? The Houston surplus people interpret the bill's text as
meaning *all* computer stuff, instead of just stuff that is worth resale.
They send everything from a goldfish bowl Mac or Apple II to an AS-400 IBM
mainframe to the prisons. The bill is written quite vague too, I'll look
and see if I can find the link for it that I had.
-Toth
University of Texas surplus auctions were a good
place to find old
gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer
equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer
gear to the prison system.
Hm. I got a *bunch* of classiccmp stuff from an University of Texas
auction earlier this spring. Maybe the prisons did not want the stuff.
8:46 p.m.
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
The auction company was Swico Auctions (http://www.swicoauctions.com/),
and the location was the "J. J. Pickle Research Campus" in Austin. They
look to have just put a similar auction up on their site, slated for
01/23/2002.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
Which auction? University of Texas surplus auctions were a good
place to find old
gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer
equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer
gear to the prison system.
Hm. I got a *bunch* of classiccmp stuff from an University of Texas
auction earlier this spring. Maybe the prisons did not want the stuff.
9:06 p.m.
New subject: Texas bill rel data processing equipment (was: Re: A hypothetical)
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
Heres the info on the bill I mentioned:
Bill: SB 1105
Legislative Session: 76(R)
Enrolled 06/18/1999 E Effective on 9/1/99
Relating to repair and resale of certain data processing equipment.
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/cgi-bin/db2www/tlo/billhist/billhist.d2w/report…
-Toth
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:
The auction company was Swico Auctions (http://www.swicoauctions.com/),
and the location was the "J. J. Pickle Research Campus" in Austin. They
look to have just put a similar auction up on their site, slated for
01/23/2002. On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
Which auction? University of Texas surplus auctions were a good
place to find old
gear up till Texas passed a bill regarding the sale of used computer
equipment from government agencies. Now they send all the old computer
gear to the prison system.
Hm. I got a *bunch* of classiccmp stuff from an University of Texas
auction earlier this spring. Maybe the prisons did not want the stuff.
7:29 p.m.
On Mon, 10 Dec 2001, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
Let's say a DEC PDP-1 comes up for auction. The
economy is good and
times are stable.
What would you be willing to pay for a DEC PDP-1?
I cannot comprehend a limit; the concept seems alien. Simply put,
I'd pay every last cent I could pay.
Unfortunately, someone else would inevitably be able to pay more. Were
this forum Slashdot, this comment would be modded "-1, Redundant".
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
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days inactive
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15 comments
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allain＠panix.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
donm＠cts.com -
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