28 Jul
2010
28 Jul
'10
5:58 a.m.
Hi,
I'm about to embark on building a single board computer (an N8VEM) as a project with
my 15yo son.
My son is a typical gamer kid who spends most of his waking moments either in front of a
computer playing WOW, or reading SF and fantasy. I'm trying to find something a bit
more positive about technology for him to enjoy. The operative word is enjoy.
Anyway, he's agreed to give it a shot, and I'm thinking through how to make this a
great experience for him. I've got a fair amount of background (BSEE and MSCS), and
understand the technology, at least theoretically, from bare silicon to flip flops, to
computer block diagrams. I'm reasonably well versed in Z80 assembly language
programming and the CP/M operating system, which is what the N8VEM runs.
I've got the equipment (electronics soldering station, good DMM, logic probe, bench
power supply, etc) and have access to an OScope if I need one. And I actually sort of
remember how to use them :)
My question for you folks is: At what level, and in what order should I try to teach some
theory to my son? Should I do some background before we start soldering sockets and ICs to
boards and wiring things up, or just jump right in to building?
I've been thinking jump in and fill in the theory as I can as we go along. In the end
we should have something that looks like an Altair with more modern HW: solid state
drives, and maybe IDE, but still has a front panel and which runs traditional CP/M 2.2. I
have lots of old software to run there, languages, editors, games, etc.
Have any of you tried something like this with your children? Experiences and wisdom
gratefully accepted!
Cheers,
Tom
29 Jul
29 Jul
10:51 a.m.
Hi,
I'm about to embark on building a single board computer (an N8VEM) as a =
project with my 15yo son.
Not having children of my own, I can't answer your exact question. But I
can think back to what I did as a kid, and, with the benefit of
hindsight, think what I really should have done.
My son is a typical gamer kid who spends most of his waking moments =
either in front of a computer playing WOW, or reading SF and fantasy. =
I'm trying to find something a bit more positive about technology for =
him to enjoy. The operative word is enjoy.
Does he show any interest at all in what goes on inside the machines? Can
he program? I hate to say this, but plenty of people are content with
being users. It can't do any harm to introduce this stuff to him, but it
may not fascinate him as it did me.
Anyway, he's agreed to give it a shot, and I'm
thinking through how to =
make this a great experience for him. I've got a fair amount of =
background (BSEE and MSCS), and understand the technology, at least =
theoretically, from bare silicon to flip flops, to computer block =
diagrams. I'm reasonably well versed in Z80 assembly language =
programming and the CP/M operating system, which is what the N8VEM runs.
I've got the equipment (electronics soldering station, good DMM, logic =
probe, bench power supply, etc) and have access to an OScope if I need =
one. And I actually sort of remember how to use them :)
My question for you folks is: At what level, and in what order should I =
try to teach some theory to my son? Should I do some background before =
Hmm... If you're not careful the whole things becomes and excerise in
'Put this compoent there and solder it in'. Although I enjoy soldering up
kits as a bit of light relief, I do think that the educational value of
doing that is minimal. If yoou introduce the theory, it can be a lot greater.
What I would do (with the benefit of hindsight) is not build a complete
machine like this at all, but get the second edition of the lab manual
for the Art of Electronics and work thorugh a modified version of the
computer experiments. Modified because I have an aversion to solderless
plugblock breadboards :-). This is a step-by-step introdcution to making
a 68008 computer (e very simple one), and yuo do learn the theory as you
go.
That's what _I_ would do, as somebody who loves to know what's going on
inside everrything. The downside is that it iwll take a long time (a lot
longer than stuffing PCBs) and you end up with a very minimal computer at
the end.
So perhaps you should stick with the N8VEM computer kit. But I would try
to introduce some theory as early as possible and see ifyour son takes to
it. If he does, be prepared to go a lot further. If he doesn't, well,
you've tried, and there are many other things to interest him.
-tony
30 Jul
30 Jul
12:18 p.m.
On 7/28/10 7:58 AM, The Pitlog wrote:
Hi,
My question for you folks is: At what level, and in what order should
I try to teach some theory to my son? Should I do some background
before we start soldering sockets and ICs to boards and wiring things
up, or just jump right in to building?
I've been thinking jump in and fill in the theory as I can as we go
along. In the end we should have something that looks like an Altair
with more modern HW: solid state drives, and maybe IDE, but still has
a front panel and which runs traditional CP/M 2.2. I have lots of old
software to run there, languages, editors, games, etc.
Have any of you tried something like this with your children?
Experiences and wisdom gratefully accepted!
I've done other craftish things with my son, who is now almost 30, and
I'm going to answer this from a somewhat different point of view.
He's probably doing this because you want him to and because he'd like
to do something with his dad. If he's excited about it at all, it's
probably because you are.
What I would do - what I did with Josh - is do the N8VEM kit, and use
the assembly time to explain what's interesting about it to *you*, and
why it's interesting to you. You'll be able to tell as you go what's
catching him and what's not.
If he's into it, go on with the theory and software end. If not, but
he seems to enjoy the hardware side, there are some very cool Arduino
projects out there, for example that display CPU load and/or temp on
analog dial gauges. Cut him loose on the web and let *him* pick the
next project.
Worst case, if none of it really catches his interest, you and he
have some quality time, he gets to learn a little about how his Pop
ticks, and he's left with a cool souvenir of the whole adventure.
Doc
3:34 p.m.
One fond memory I have of my father (rest his soul) is his "let's
build a radio" project. He was a little disappointed when the local
electronics parts store didn't stock UV201As, vario-couplers and book-
type-capacitors, but we made do with a 1G4G, hand-wound coils and a
traditional variable capacitor. Built on a pine board with an Eby
surface-mount socket and run from a dry cell filament supply and a 45
volt "B" battery.
Relevance to modern technology, it seems to me, isn't important.
Plenty of dads show their sons (and daughters) how to work on 60's
muscle cars. But do something together, even if it's shooting rats
at the town dump.
Whatever you do, you won't regret it and your kid will remember it
fondly, however it turns out.
--Chuck
9:21 p.m.
On 7/28/2010 7:58 AM, The Pitlog wrote:
Hi,
I'm about to embark on building a single board computer (an N8VEM) as a project with
my 15yo son.
When I did this sort of thing with my son, the soldering phase took way
too long for his attention span. We had better success with my AVR uC
setup, where we could JAM some code into the uC to blink some lights,
and then build that up into something interesting.
Mind you, my son was 11, so maybe yours has a longer attention span, but
I seem to recall mine was pretty short past 15.
Jim
--
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations (X)
brain at jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!
Home: http://www.jbrain.com
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