On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Dan Gahlinger <dgahling at hotmail.com> wrote: 11/780 - 1977 11/750 - 1980 11/730 - 1982 -ethan

Dan Gahlinger [dgahling at hotmail.com] wrote: The VAX-11/780 is mentioned here: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/gbell/digital/timeline/197 7.htm. There's no sign of a VAX-11/725 here: http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/gbell/digital/timeline/197 2.htm :-) You must be thinking of Windows :-) Antonio arcarlini at iee.org

On Dec 11, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Dan Gahlinger wrote: Huh? 11/780 was introduced in 1978 11/750 was introduced in 1980 11/730 was introduced in 1982 So by almost any definition I can imagine, the 11/780 was the first of the VAXen. TTFN - Guy

On 12/11/2012 01:19 PM, David Riley wrote: They had better be--one of the big selling points to us of the 750 was that you got a considerable hunk of the 780's processing power for a lot less money. --Chuck

Imagine how I know that particular point? :o) Wow! I can say I had a $100K toy! ;oD I miss my 11/750... :o(

I'm the opposite (as usual). I turned down an 11/750 and actively looked for (and eventually found) an 11/730. My views on these amachiens are : 11/780. Beautiful, but alrge and power-hungry. I'd love one, but only if I had somewwhere to put it 11/750. All custom gate arrays make it hard to understand and even harder to repair. Not a amchine I would ever want ot run 11/730. To fit a VAX processor onto 3 hex-heightcards using only stnadard ICs [1] is a hack. It;'s postly (unprotected) PALs. There are 8 MA291s for the ALU. The really stupid bit of design, and the boatie who came up with this needs a touch of the clue-by-four is that the microcode store is _DRAM_. Yes, you read that right. 4116s IIRC. The problem is, of course that the execution of the micorocde doens't access all locations in the store quickly enough, so the RAM is not autometically refreshed. You guessed it, the CPU is paused every so often asd the control store is refreshed. That's one thing that slows it right down. Why they didn't use SRAM is beyond me.... Still, the 11/730 is small enogh to accomodote (10.5" box, and not that heavy) and repariable. It's my favourite of all the VASen -tony

Ooops... Let's resolve it. [1] There were actally 2 custom gate arrays in the 11/730, I suspect they were also used in the 11/750. They handle the error correction for ECC memory, and are thus not essential to understnading how the processor works. -tony

If it were closer to me I think I would have made the effort to spend that money! But I would have to rent storage space for it, no room at home :-( Regards Rob cry

On 12/11/2012 1:26 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: They want an arm and a leg for freight too. I live 40 miles away and they quoted me $360 to deliver it. Not that I could have afforded it anyway but, I had to ask.

On 12/11/2012 2:22 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: They don't allow you to pickup because they are actually located inside a prison.

On 12/11/2012 05:36 PM, mc68010 wrote: Ohhh yes, I'd forgotten about that. :-( -Dave -- Dave McGuire, AK4HZ New Kensington, PA

On Dec 11, 2012, at 2:22 PM, Dave McGuire wrote: You'll want at least two people and a truck with a "rail lift" rather than a "tuck under". Don't even try it with a ramp. For those that don't know, a "rail lift" runs the lift (on you guessed it) rails. So it goes straight up and down. This is really important with large equipment. The "tuck under" lifts have a fair amount of fore-aft movement that if you're not careful can cause large loads to shift and those with wheels can roll right off. I avoid "tuck under" lifts at all costs. TTFN - Guy

Large wheeled cabinets like these certainly can be loaded an unloaded on a ramp. The key is to use a pair of comealongs* (the good kind that can reverse the ratchet) and have patience. And remember to inspect _everything_ before making a move. With a nylon strap (and optionally some cardboard corners - and yes, use a good heavy strap), attach the running-out end of the first comealong to the strap, near the base of the cabinet. Then, attach the second comealong to the first. This is done simply because most of these only run out six or ten feet, and the last thing one wants is to be halfway up or down the ramp and the comealong all wound up or out. The second comealong then can be attached to a hard point inside, like a hook or eye up front, or another heavy strap forming a triangle to hardpoints on the side, near the deck. Then ratchet away, checking progress every few clicks. At critical points, a progress check after every click may be needed. I have done this many times with equipment heavier than this VAX-11/780, with no problems. I have done it alone, but having help is recommended. The thing to watch is the width of the ramp, which should have at least a few inches of clearance to either side (and more is better, obviously). Another thing to watch is if the side rails of the ramp will get in the way with the cabinet, like the leveling feet, especially at the ends of the ramp. One can also use a comealong arrangement similar to what I described above for tilted ramps. On my Facebook page there is a picture of a very heavy old IBM tape unit on a very tilted worn-out ramp - and it came down out of the truck in 15 minutes or so. *or a chain hoist. -- Will

If the cabinet bottoms out at this crest, try putting a piece of thin plywood or two on the deck of the truck, a few inches in. Even 1/4 inch pieces can help greatly. -- Will

On 12/11/2012 5:01 PM, mc68010 wrote: yup same here (bout 60 miles). My problem was what to do when it shows up at the house. lol. steve

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, mc68010 wrote: Pound for pound, $360 for freight really isn't bad at all for something that size.