27 Mar
2005
27 Mar
'05
6:27 p.m.
From what I hear, the system I used was not one of the TSB series. I'm
still interested in trying it out. I don't see binaries online anywhere.
Can someone point me to them?
I never did any admin on the systems as a student. I only had access
using BASIC. I have booted up SIMH with the hp basic stand alone, and
it's similar but lacks some features our system had like string variables.
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/hpbasic/basic1.abs
I see on jeffs site the source tapes for 22255 "Four user BASIC".
Perhaps this is the system we were running? 2 CRTs, one ASR-33 and a
card reader would mean 4 users, correct?
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/hpbasic/index.html
Anyone willing to give be instructions on how to get the files
assembled? I would think I'd load something like the "extended assember"
via PTR:
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/siotapes/extasmb.abs
jump someplace? and then feed in each of the basic tapes on the same PTR?
My experience has been with Linux on all kinds of hardware, from x86
servers and desktops to alpha, sparc, ia64, mips, ppc, sh3, and many arm
systems. Most recent work is with ARM boxes. I was deeply involved with
the SHarp Zaurus release while working at Lineo (or Embedix, or
Metroworks, or whatever they call themselves now).
I have simh up and running. Not the same without the blinking lights.
Perhaps Jay's emulator will have blinking lights?
We did a version of VNC for the Zaurus that had a "skin" which was a
scanned image of the device. I envision the same interface on an
emulator. click the buttons with the mouse, turn the key to lock/unlock,
Would be nice to have a tape reader with audio and perhaps a mag tape
too. ;-)
There used to be some internet accessable simh access systems running.
Are they still? I notice that simh just loops like the actual machine
would. This means it eats up 100% cpu all the time. Seems to me that
should get hacked somehow to detect "idle" states, and select()
someplace for a short ammount of time instead of looping all the time.
If I ran the simulator on my Zaurus it would suck the battery dry in no
time. We can't have that can we? ;-)
Well, thanx in advance for the help. I look forward to trying out the 4
user basic environment and see if it's what I recall.
--
Tim Riker - http://rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Embedded Linux Technologist
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun!
27 Mar
27 Mar
7:04 p.m.
Tim wrote:
I see on jeffs site the source tapes for 22255
"Four user BASIC".
[...]
Anyone willing to give be instructions on how to get
the files
assembled? I would think I'd load something like the "extended assember"
via PTR:
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/siotapes/extasmb.abs
It might be possible to cross-assemble with with asm21:
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/asm21/
Thus far I've only tested asm21 for assembling the HP 2000C' sources,
so I don't know how well it will work for other programs. But it
runs on an machine with Perl, so it may be easier than using a
21xx resident assembler.
Eric
10:03 p.m.
Eric Smith wrote:
It might be possible to cross-assemble with with
asm21:
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/asm21/
Thus far I've only tested asm21 for assembling the HP 2000C' sources,
so I don't know how well it will work for other programs. But it
runs on an machine with Perl, so it may be easier than using a
21xx resident assembler.
Thanx! The files are on:
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/hpbasic/
I tried it out with asm21 and found a few things:
I first removed the tape wrappings from the text files (of course) and
then combined them all. Then I found that 22255-08.txt has some garbage
on line 11 and 12:
- STB BFAD2 SAVE ADDRESS
- JMP WCONT MOVE IN AND PROCESS
+ STBFAD2 SAVE ADDRESS
+ P WCONT MOVE IN AND PROCESS
there are odd chars in the term names:
- } elsif ($str =~ s/^([a-zA-Z.?%\#\$][0-9a-zA-Z.?%\/=\#\$]*)//) {
+ } elsif ($str =~
s/^([a-zA-Z.?%\#\$\&\[\/@\^\!][0-9a-zA-Z.?%\/=\#\$\&\[\/@\^\!]*)//) {
I suspect that change should just be made to asm21.pl
Once compiled, it loads up into simh but running does not seem to do
much of anything. I suspect it wants the earlier "dumb" mux? Perhaps
it's just expecting things in different slots. I'll hack on it more, but
I'm open to suggestions. I'll keep posting things on the wiki from time
to time:
http://rikers.org/wiki/FirstComputer
--
Tim Riker - http://rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Embedded Linux Technologist
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun!
28 Mar
28 Mar
9:27 a.m.
Tim Riker wrote:
From what I hear, the system I used was not one of the TSB series. I'm
still interested in trying it out. I don't see binaries online anywhere.
Can someone point me to them?
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/hpbasic/basic1.abs
Files with the "ABS" extension are compiled files. I don't have the ABS
documentation in front of me but the format is not very complex. You can
download the cross compiler at:
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/emulator/hpasm.c (saves files in ABS
format) and figure out exactly what the format is.
The real trick is getting the file loaded into the HP1000. Depending on
which I/O cards and loader ROMS you have, you can load the data either
serially or in parallel.
When I first started playing with the 1000's I built a Paper Tape
Emulator and used it for loading files including HPBASIC. This involved
building a parallel interface between my PC and the 1000. It worked OK
but, I found it was really clumbsy. So, I went the serial route.
To load files serially I wrote a perl script to parse the ABS file and
send it as HEX-ASCII to a serial I/O card in the 1000. Since my 1000
already had a loader ROM for a serial data terminal, I didn't have to to
do anything on the HP1000 side. If you don't have the serial ROM, you
can write a serial I/O routine and toggle it in whenever you want to
load the file.
If you wanna build hardware, go the parallel route. If you wanna build
software, go the serial route. Either way works.
SO... Here's an update on my latest tinkerings with the 1000's. How bout
a HPIB hard drive that can boot a HP1000 and/or a Z80 STD BUS system and
share files between them. That's right, two completely different
computers sharing the same HD. Obviously the binaries can't be shared
but they can use the same file system and share non-binary files.
When completed, I should be able to write a BASIC program on the Z80
system, save it to disk in ASCII format, boot the HP1000 from the same
disk, load and run the program... Hmmm... Now If I just had a GPIB card
for my linux box ;-)
Now that's what I call a DUAL BOOT system!
See Yas,
SteveRob
11:43 a.m.
Steve Robertson wrote:
Files with the "ABS" extension are compiled
files. I don't have the ABS
documentation in front of me but the format is not very complex. You can
download the cross compiler at:
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/emulator/hpasm.c (saves files in ABS
format) and figure out exactly what the format is.
Thanx, I posted later on that I used the perl assember here:
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/asm21/
and got it assembled. The C version above did not work well for me.
The real trick is getting the file loaded into the HP1000. Depending on
which I/O cards and loader ROMS you have, you can load the data either
serially or in parallel.
actually I'm using simh at this point. loading the "tape" was no problem
at all.
Now I'm stumped on getting it bootstrapped. Not sure where to put the
tty port number info. Does it just want a slot number? looks like simh
defaults to tty in slot 11, but I don't understand what the code is
looking for:
PTSBS CLC 0 TURN OFF ALL DEVICES
LIA 1 LOAD I/O ADDRESS OF TTY
AND .63 MASK TO LOWER 6-BITS
STA B PUT ADDRESS IN B-REGISTER
ARS,ARS SHIFT TO BITS (5-3)
ARS
SZA I/O ADDRESS >7?
JMP ZGO YES-INITIALIZE PREPARE BASIC TTY
*
HLT 55B INVALID I/O ADDRESS HALT
JMP PTSBS TRY AGAIN
more info on the wiki page:
http://rikers.org/wiki/FirstComputer
--
Tim Riker - http://rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Linux Technologist - Tim at TI.com - http://www.TI.com/
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun!
1:48 p.m.
Tim wrote...
and got it assembled. The C version above did not work
well for me.
The C version on taurus has some problems. The perl version works well,
so
I'm echoing your experience.
Now I'm stumped on getting it bootstrapped. Not
sure where to put the tty
port number info. Does it just want a slot number?
It wants the slot number enteres
in the S register (LIA is an I/O from the
switch register). The fact they are masking to the lower six bits tells me
to set S register bits 5-0 to the select code of the tty.
Jay West
6:41 p.m.
The bootstrap wants the I/O slot number in bits 11 thru 6.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay West" <jwest at classiccmp.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: hp2114 basic
Tim wrote...
and got it assembled. The C version above did not
work well for me.
The C version on taurus has some problems. The perl version works
well, so
I'm echoing your experience.
Now I'm stumped on getting it bootstrapped.
Not sure where to put the tty
port number info. Does it just want a slot number?
It wants the slot number
enteres in the S register (LIA is an I/O from the
switch register). The fact they are masking to the lower six bits tells me
to set S register bits 5-0 to the select code of the tty.
Jay West
6:40 p.m.
Be careful with HPASM, its very broken!
It does not parse combined opcodes correctly at all.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Riker" <Tim at rikers.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: hp2114 basic
Steve Robertson wrote:
Files with the "ABS" extension are
compiled files. I don't have the ABS
documentation in front of me but the format is not very complex. You can
download the cross compiler at:
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/emulator/hpasm.c (saves files in ABS
format) and figure out exactly what the format is.
Thanx, I posted later on that I used the perl assember here:
http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/software/asm21/
and got it assembled. The C version above did not work well for me.
The real trick is getting the file loaded into the HP1000. Depending on
which I/O cards and loader ROMS you have, you can load the data either
serially or in parallel.
actually I'm using simh at this point. loading the "tape" was no problem
at all.
Now I'm stumped on getting it bootstrapped. Not sure where to put the
tty port number info. Does it just want a slot number? looks like simh
defaults to tty in slot 11, but I don't understand what the code is
looking for:
PTSBS CLC 0 TURN OFF ALL DEVICES
LIA 1 LOAD I/O ADDRESS OF TTY
AND .63 MASK TO LOWER 6-BITS
STA B PUT ADDRESS IN B-REGISTER
ARS,ARS SHIFT TO BITS (5-3)
ARS
SZA I/O ADDRESS >7?
JMP ZGO YES-INITIALIZE PREPARE BASIC TTY
*
HLT 55B INVALID I/O ADDRESS HALT
JMP PTSBS TRY AGAIN
more info on the wiki page:
http://rikers.org/wiki/FirstComputer
--
Tim Riker - http://rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Linux Technologist - Tim at TI.com - http://www.TI.com/
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun!
29 Mar
29 Mar
8:43 a.m.
On 28 Mar 2005 at 13:43, Tim Riker wrote:
Now I'm stumped on getting it bootstrapped. Not
sure where to put the
tty port number info.
I've had a look at Jeff's page and a quick look at the software. There are
two parts to the BASIC system: the interpreter itself, and a "preparer"
that configures the interpreter for the specific hardware on which it will
run. You run the preparer, which reads the unconfigured interpreter in via
paper tape, configures it, and punches a new tape that is ready to run on
the specified hardware setup. Thereafter, you just load the prepared tape
and run it.
Source files 1-9 assemble into the preparer, and 10-17 into the
interpreter. After assembly, the preparer is loaded (e.g., on SIMH), the
I/O slot number of the teletype is entered into the S register ("deposit S
11" for SIMH), and the program is started at location 2 ("run 2"). It will
print "PHOTO READER I/O ADDRESS?" and a whole bunch of other configuration
questions.
You can verify this by using the pre-assembled "prepare.abs" and
"hpbasic.abs" files on Jeff's page. If the above doesn't work using the
files you assembled, then I'd suspect an assembly problem or transcription
error in the source files.
Note that the interpreter doesn't use the MUX device (SIMH's 12920A
implementation), but only the 12531C TTY device. It supports four
terminals via four TTY cards. However, SIMH supports only one of each
device, so you'll only be able to use a single TTY.
Finally, and not to chase you away from here :-), but there's a SIMH users'
mailing list, where questions such as the issue of SIMH using 100% of the
CPU time have been discussed in some detail. Subscription instructions are
available via the "Help with SIMH" link from the main SIMH Web page.
-- Dave
30 Mar
30 Mar
3:52 p.m.
I don't think this information is at all correct.
For HP's stand-alone BASIC...
The PBS program allows you to reconfigure the BASIC SYSTEM binary
image for non-standard hardware. The BASIC SYSTEM image is a complete
stand-alone basic (single user only).
It assumes you have a 12531 series serial interface in slot 11, and a reader
in
slot 12. It will run perfectly well without using PBS under this hardware
config.
This basic will run on any HP 1000 series CPU from the 2114 up to F-series
machines, but not the A and L class CPU's.
The source on the 2100 archive site is for a multi-user basic, not HP's 1968
stand-alone basic. These are two completely different peices of software.
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: hp2114 basic
On 28 Mar 2005 at 13:43, Tim Riker wrote:
Now I'm stumped on getting it bootstrapped.
Not sure where to put the
tty port number info.
I've had a look at Jeff's page and a quick look at the software. There
are
two parts to the BASIC system: the interpreter itself, and a "preparer"
that configures the interpreter for the specific hardware on which it will
run. You run the preparer, which reads the unconfigured interpreter in
via
paper tape, configures it, and punches a new tape that is ready to run on
the specified hardware setup. Thereafter, you just load the prepared tape
and run it.
Source files 1-9 assemble into the preparer, and 10-17 into the
interpreter. After assembly, the preparer is loaded (e.g., on SIMH), the
I/O slot number of the teletype is entered into the S register ("deposit S
11" for SIMH), and the program is started at location 2 ("run 2"). It
will
print "PHOTO READER I/O ADDRESS?" and a whole bunch of other configuration
questions.
You can verify this by using the pre-assembled "prepare.abs" and
"hpbasic.abs" files on Jeff's page. If the above doesn't work using
the
files you assembled, then I'd suspect an assembly problem or transcription
error in the source files.
Note that the interpreter doesn't use the MUX device (SIMH's 12920A
implementation), but only the 12531C TTY device. It supports four
terminals via four TTY cards. However, SIMH supports only one of each
device, so you'll only be able to use a single TTY.
Finally, and not to chase you away from here :-), but there's a SIMH
users'
mailing list, where questions such as the issue of SIMH using 100% of the
CPU time have been discussed in some detail. Subscription instructions
are
available via the "Help with SIMH" link from the main SIMH Web page.
-- Dave
31 Mar
31 Mar
7:57 a.m.
On 30 Mar 2005 at 18:52, Bob Shannon wrote:
I don't think this information is at all correct.
For HP's stand-alone BASIC...
I'm unclear here; to what specifically is "this information" above
referring?
You describe the operation of an HP product, but the program on Jeff's site
isn't an HP product. The source starts off with:
* TIME-SHARE BASIC DRIVERS AND MONITOR
*
* KILE B. BAKER
* JOHN S. SHEMA
*
* DATA RECORDING CENTER
*
* MONTANA STATE UNIVERSITY
...and it appears on HP's LOCUS ("Library of Contributed User Software")
tape as items 22255-60001 and 22255-60002. So we're speaking of two
different products.
It assumes you have a 12531 series serial interface in
slot 11, and a
reader in slot 12. It will run perfectly well without using PBS under
this hardware config.
HP BASIC might, but the MSU BASIC under discussion won't. See, for
example, the "CHIN1" routine in source file 6:
LIA 0 LOAD CHARACTER
[...]
OTB 0 NO, OUTPUT TTY BOARD COMMAND
STC 0,C START INPUT
All of the I/O instructions default to select code 0 and must be configured
to the actual TTY select code.
The source on the 2100 archive site is for a
multi-user basic, not
HP's 1968 stand-alone basic.
Yes.
These are two completely different peices of software.
Hence my confusion with your first sentence.
-- Dave
3:12 p.m.
The original poster is running HPBASIC, not MSU Basic.
And clearly the source code is not for HPBASIC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. David Bryan" <jdbryan at acm.org>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only" <cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: hp2114 basic
On 30 Mar 2005 at 18:52, Bob Shannon wrote:
I don't think this information is at all
correct.
For HP's stand-alone BASIC...
I'm unclear here; to what specifically is "this information" above
referring?
You describe the operation of an HP product, but the program on Jeff's
site
isn't an HP product. The source starts off with:
* TIME-SHARE BASIC DRIVERS AND MONITOR
*
* KILE B. BAKER
* JOHN S. SHEMA
*
* DATA RECORDING CENTER
*
* MONTANA STATE UNIVERSITY
...and it appears on HP's LOCUS ("Library of Contributed User Software")
tape as items 22255-60001 and 22255-60002. So we're speaking of two
different products.
It assumes you have a 12531 series serial
interface in slot 11, and a
reader in slot 12. It will run perfectly well without using PBS under
this hardware config.
HP BASIC might, but the MSU BASIC under discussion won't. See, for
example, the "CHIN1" routine in source file 6:
LIA 0 LOAD CHARACTER
[...]
OTB 0 NO, OUTPUT TTY BOARD COMMAND
STC 0,C START INPUT
All of the I/O instructions default to select code 0 and must be
configured
to the actual TTY select code.
The source on the 2100 archive site is for a
multi-user basic, not
HP's 1968 stand-alone basic.
Yes.
These are two completely different peices of
software.
Hence my confusion with your first sentence.
-- Dave
3:24 p.m.
Bob Shannon wrote:
The original poster is running HPBASIC, not MSU Basic.
And clearly the source code is not for HPBASIC.
Well running HPBASIC, but trying to run MSU basic instead. I'll get it
working when I have more time to put into it.
--
Tim Riker - http://rikers.org/ - TimR at Debian.org
Linux Technologist - Tim at TI.com - http://www.TI.com/
BZFlag maintainer - http://BZFlag.org/ - for fun!
4:46 p.m.
On 31 Mar 2005 at 18:12, Bob Shannon wrote:
The original poster is running HPBASIC, not MSU Basic.
Well, I'm confused. From:
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctech/2005-March/042135.html
...Tim wrote:
"Thanx! The files are on:
http://oscar.taurus.com/~jeff/2100/hpbasic/
"I tried it out with asm21 and found a few things.... [...] Once
compiled, it loads up into simh but running does not seem to do much of
anything."
I gathered that he was trying to run the MSU BASIC that he assembled from
the source files (although I now see that the binaries there don't match
the sources, so my comment about verifying the assembly by comparison with
the binaries was in error).
-- Dave
6:50 p.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
I've posted a copy of the UCSD CP/M adaptable system on my site. It has a
problem with part of it:
There is a volume called INTCPM that is corrupted. If anyone else has a
copy please let me know, it was part of the DynaSig archive that Don Maslin
kept.
I am also looking for any documentation for it.
What I have works but only looks at one drive, later I'll see what I can do
to get it to do more. I intend to get it running on the Imsai Series 2.
I have lots of Psystem files on my site if anyone is interested.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
1 Apr
1 Apr
6:33 a.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
At 08:50 PM 3/31/2005, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
I've posted a copy of the UCSD CP/M adaptable
system on my site. It has a problem with part of it:
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Would you consider not using self-expanding PC executables to store
archives? You're not even using the licensed WinZip to do it.
Straight Zip files can be opened anywhere.
The Terak disk images are a fine example of why I'd personally
hesitate to upload disk images. Bill Riordan's personal letters
are among the text files perserved on the archives.
- John
11:06 a.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
From: "John Foust" <jfoust at threedee.com>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:33 AM
At 08:50 PM 3/31/2005, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
I started using self-expanding archives because of complaints that people
couldn't unzip straight Zip files. Not everyone uses the same Zip format.
I use Winzip v8.1, many people use a variety of programs.
I have yet to find one archival format that everyone can use,
self-extracting archives at least supports 99%.
Anyone unable to handle the archives are welcome to contact me and I will
work with them. The exe files can still be opened by the full blown winzip
program.
I do an anti-virus scan of every file I post on my site and I hope everyone
scans everything they download from me or anyone else (exe or otherwise).
I am still looking into other options but I have yet to find a format that
everyone likes.
As for the Terak archive I will look into it, it is not mine I never even
touched the disks. My guess is the Terak computer that the collection came
I've posted a copy of the UCSD CP/M adaptable
system on my site. It has a
problem with part of it:
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Would you consider not using self-expanding PC executables to store
archives? You're not even using the licensed WinZip to do it.
Straight Zip files can be opened anywhere.
The Terak disk images are a fine example of why I'd personally
hesitate to upload disk images. Bill Riordan's personal letters
are among the text files perserved on the archives.
- John from may have once been owned by Bill Riordan.
My goal is to put up as much of the quickly disappearing material as
possible in the hope others will copy it for posterity. This goes for a
variety of systems, some I archive personally, some like the Terak disks
were sent to me, others I find where I can.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
11:52 a.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
At 01:06 PM 4/1/2005, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
I have yet to find one archival format that everyone
can use, self-extracting archives at least supports 99%.
Only if you count all the other people as 1%. :-) I'm sure
that many of us appreciate your efforts. I've never had trouble
with Zip. At the command line, I use Infozip's free version.
Even if you're using the Windows version for creating archives,
if you're not using their proprietary compression techniques,
I can't think of a time when 'infozip' wasn't able to handle them.
I do an anti-virus scan of every file I post on my site
and I hope everyone scans everything they download from me or anyone else (exe or
otherwise).
Viruses are one thing, spyware is another. These days with spyware
everywhere, any executable gives me the willies. There are plenty
of evil people stuffing spyware into downloadable executables
you find on the web.
- John
12:58 p.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
From: "John Foust" <jfoust at threedee.com>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:52 PM
At 01:06 PM 4/1/2005, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
I use lavasoft's adware to try and keep my system clear of spyware, Norton
Internet Security for everything else.
As I said the exe file can be used as a zip file, it can even be renamed to
a .zip and it will work normally. I guess I should post a reminder of this
on my download pages.
I'd rather use Linux tools to archive my files but that would keep them out
of reach of so many :-(, my goal is to give access to everyone.
I have no disillusions, sooner or later my website will disappear like so
many in the past. Anyone interested in what I am archiving should make
copies and hopefully post it themselves,. That is the only way I know of to
truly archive the info. This is why most of my webspace is dedicated to
mirroring the work of others.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
I have yet to find one archival format that
everyone can use,
self-extracting archives at least supports 99%.
Only if you count all the other people as 1%. :-) I'm sure
that many of us appreciate your efforts. I've never had trouble
with Zip. At the command line, I use Infozip's free version.
Even if you're using the Windows version for creating archives,
if you're not using their proprietary compression techniques,
I can't think of a time when 'infozip' wasn't able to handle them.
I do an anti-virus scan of every file I post on my
site and I hope
everyone scans everything they download from me or anyone else (exe or
otherwise).
Viruses are one thing, spyware is another. These days with spyware
everywhere, any executable gives me the willies. There are plenty
of evil people stuffing spyware into downloadable executables
you find on the web.
- John 
11:52 a.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
Randy McLaughlin wrote:
I started using self-expanding archives because of complaints that
people couldn't unzip straight Zip files. Not everyone uses the same
Zip format. I use Winzip v8.1, many people use a variety of programs.
I have yet to find one archival format that everyone can use,
self-extracting archives at least supports 99%.
Umm I may want files for my LINUX box... I favor raw files for TEXT
since anybody ( using ascii ) can read them.
Ben alias woodelf
1:38 p.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
On Fri, 2005-04-01 at 12:52 -0700, Ben Franchuk wrote:
Randy McLaughlin wrote:
And tar for multi-file archives... more portable than zip I'd say, plus
errors won't trash the archive (or at least not so much!).
Of course if compression *has* to be used... hmm... I suppose zip *is*
the best bet there, as at least it's more widely supported than some of
the other compression methods.
Self-extracting archives sound like a *very* bad idea when you have no
idea what the target machine will be! :)
I started using self-expanding archives because of complaints that
people couldn't unzip straight Zip files. Not everyone uses the same
Zip format. I use Winzip v8.1, many people use a variety of programs.
I have yet to find one archival format that everyone can use,
self-extracting archives at least supports 99%.
Umm I may want files for my LINUX box... I favor raw files for TEXT
since anybody ( using ascii ) can read them.
2:46 p.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
From: "Jules Richardson" <julesrichardsonuk at yahoo.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:38 PM
On Fri, 2005-04-01 at 12:52 -0700, Ben Franchuk wrote:
As stated in a different post the *.exe file can be renamed to *.zip and any
zip program will handle it normally, that is if the algorithms are
compatible. I had too many complaints from people that didn't have a
compatible program so a self extracting archive is the best way I've found
so far.
If anyone can come up with a method that is truly better I'll jump on it.
The problem is simple if it's not a self extracting file then everyone has
to use a compatible extractor :-(
For DOS/Windoze there are many different incompatible zip programs.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Randy McLaughlin wrote:
And tar for multi-file archives... more portable than zip I'd say, plus
errors won't trash the archive (or at least not so much!).
Of course if compression *has* to be used... hmm... I suppose zip *is*
the best bet there, as at least it's more widely supported than some of
the other compression methods.
Self-extracting archives sound like a *very* bad idea when you have no
idea what the target machine will be! :)
I started using self-expanding archives because of complaints that
people couldn't unzip straight Zip files. Not everyone uses the same
Zip format. I use Winzip v8.1, many people use a variety of programs.
I have yet to find one archival format that everyone can use,
self-extracting archives at least supports 99%.
Umm I may want files for my LINUX box... I favor raw files for TEXT
since anybody ( using ascii ) can read them. 
1:45 p.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
Randy McLaughlin wrote:
From: "John Foust" <jfoust at
threedee.com>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:33 AM
I tried running them but they don't seem to work in Linux or in Mac OSX.
At 08:50 PM 3/31/2005, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
I started using self-expanding archives because of complaints that
people couldn't unzip straight Zip files. Not everyone uses the same
Zip format. I use Winzip v8.1, many people use a variety of programs.
I have yet to find one archival format that everyone can use,
self-extracting archives at least supports 99%. I've posted a copy of the UCSD CP/M adaptable
system on my site. It
has a problem with part of it:
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Would you consider not using self-expanding PC executables to store
archives? You're not even using the licensed WinZip to do it.
Straight Zip files can be opened anywhere.
The Terak disk images are a fine example of why I'd personally
hesitate to upload disk images. Bill Riordan's personal letters
are among the text files perserved on the archives.
- John Anyone unable to handle the archives are welcome to
contact me and I
will work with them. The exe files can still be opened by the full
blown winzip program.
But I don't have Winzip, and I can't find a Linux version.
I am still looking into other options but I have yet
to find a format
that everyone likes.
Why not just use ordinary zip files?
Gordon.
2:35 p.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:33:26 -0600
John Foust <jfoust at threedee.com> wrote:
At 08:50 PM 3/31/2005, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
My experience has always been that self-expanding PC executables, if
based on ZIP compression, are easily renamed with a .zip extension and
opened with an unzip utility on any platform. This has even been true
in a few instances where there was a 'click through license' that
otherwise would have had to have [OK] clicked on it to proceed.
I've posted a copy of the UCSD CP/M adaptable
system on my site. It
has a problem with part of it: Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Would you consider not using self-expanding PC executables to store
archives? You're not even using the licensed WinZip to do it.
Straight Zip files can be opened anywhere.
The Terak disk images are a fine example of why I'd personally
hesitate to upload disk images. Bill Riordan's personal letters
are among the text files perserved on the archives.
- John
2 Apr
2 Apr
5:49 p.m.
New subject: UCSD CP/M Adaptable system
From: "John Foust" <jfoust at threedee.com>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 8:33 AM
At 08:50 PM 3/31/2005, Randy McLaughlin wrote:
I redacted the personal text files from the archive, as I said it was sent
to me that way knowing I was posting it on the web.
I agree before letting go of any disks you should look and see what is on
them.
In this case there are large pieces of the UCSD source code in this archive
and I am extremely happy to have it on my site. The personal letters didn't
have anything embarassing on them but had nothing to do with what I want to
save.
When I create an archive of files or disk images I try to know what I am
archiving. I look at text files with an editor and disk images with a hex
editor. I've found lot's of goodies with a hex editor.
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
I've posted a copy of the UCSD CP/M adaptable
system on my site. It has a
problem with part of it:
Randy
www.s100-manuals.com
Would you consider not using self-expanding PC executables to store
archives? You're not even using the licensed WinZip to do it.
Straight Zip files can be opened anywhere.
The Terak disk images are a fine example of why I'd personally
hesitate to upload disk images. Bill Riordan's personal letters
are among the text files perserved on the archives.
- John 
29 Mar
29 Mar
5:16 a.m.
New subject: GPIB on Linux Re: hp2114 basic
At 12:27 PM 3/28/05 -0500, SteveRob wrote:
Hmmm... Now If I just had a GPIB card
for my linux box ;-)
What kind of system are you running Linux on? I probably have a GP-IB
card for it.
Joe
Now that's what I call a DUAL BOOT system!
See Yas,
SteveRob
7520
days inactive
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26 comments
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participants (13)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
cctalk＠randy482.com -
chenmel＠earthlink.net -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
gordon＠gjcp.net -
jdbryan＠acm.org -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
steerex＠mindspring.com -
Tim＠rikers.org