8 Nov
2001
8 Nov
'01
6:16 a.m.
Mac -> Asante SCSI to ethernet adapter ->
Farallon Etherwave
ethernet to Localtalk adapter -> Laserwriter
I likely would have removed the adapter chain and
connected the Laserwriter to the Mac directly with the Localtalk
ports but I wasn't going to try and walk someone through a
reconfigure like that over the phone.
Yeah, I would have gone Mac to Ethernet (if the mac needed the ethernet),
and LaserWriter to Mac via localtalk, run Apple's local talk bridge
software, and the whole ethernet network (including the local mac) will
see the laserwriter on the ethernet network.
Much easier than ethernet to etherwave to localtalk. But you are right,
if they didn't know to connect the LW directly to the mac in the first
place, you probably would have had fun trying to walk them thru it over
the phone.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
8 Nov
8 Nov
9:24 a.m.
> Mac -> Asante SCSI to ethernet adapter ->
Farallon Etherwave
>ethernet to Localtalk adapter -> Laserwriter
Yeah, I would have gone Mac to Ethernet (if the mac
needed the ethernet),
and LaserWriter to Mac via localtalk, run Apple's local talk bridge
software, and the whole ethernet network (including the local mac) will
see the laserwriter on the ethernet network.
What confused me for a long time, and is currently scheduled for again this
evening, is that Apple printers in many cases are NOT TCP/IP, but ethertalk
(same physical layer, different protocol). Some of the bridges and routers
pass TCP/IP or EtherTalk, but not both, then add to that the native network
blind character of a Wintel box and I am walking in a foggy forest.
Tonights fun, Apple Laserwriter 16/600 vs W98se, film at 11.
7:20 p.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
What confused me for a long time, and is currently
scheduled for again this
evening, is that Apple printers in many cases are NOT TCP/IP, but ethertalk
(same physical layer, different protocol). Some of the bridges and routers
pass TCP/IP or EtherTalk, but not both, then add to that the native network
blind character of a Wintel box and I am walking in a foggy forest.
Tonights fun, Apple Laserwriter 16/600 vs W98se, film at 11.
I've been digging at this problem for a few weeks, and I almost don't
believe the answer. Windows machines apparently won't print directly to
network printers. (obviously NT will, ditto maybe w2k, but not 95 or 98).
The story I hear is that Microsoft wanted to sell more NT servers, so they
pulled the support for standard protocols like LPR (something like that)
forcing users to print from a workstation to a NT server, which contains
the protocols to talk to the network printers directly. Why did windows
users allow MicroSoft to get away with crap like that?
BTW the sane alternative appears to be SAMBA, but it still is really wrong.
HP has wizard software that gets around this somehow, but Apple can't even
remember it was in the printer business 4 years ago.
11:19 p.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
At 01:20 AM 11/9/01 -0800, you wrote:
Nope, WFW3.11, Win95 and Win98 were designed as "small office / home
operating systems" and were never given support for LPR protocol as you
weren't expected to see that in a SOHO / Workgroup or Home setting. (In
yet another previous incarnation I was a support tech for POS at Microsoft
[Personal Operating Systems] )
What confused
me for a long time, and is currently scheduled for again this
evening, is that Apple printers in many cases are NOT TCP/IP, but ethertalk
(same physical layer, different protocol). Some of the bridges and routers
pass TCP/IP or EtherTalk, but not both, then add to that the native network
blind character of a Wintel box and I am walking in a foggy forest.
Tonights fun, Apple Laserwriter 16/600 vs W98se, film at 11.
I've been digging at this problem for a few weeks, and I almost don't
believe the answer. Windows machines apparently won't print directly to
network printers. (obviously NT will, ditto maybe w2k, but not 95 or 98).
The story I hear is that Microsoft wanted to sell more NT servers, so they
pulled the support for standard protocols like LPR (something like that)
forcing users to print from a workstation to a NT server, which contains
the protocols to talk to the network printers directly. Why did windows
users allow MicroSoft to get away with crap like that?
BTW the sane alternative appears to be SAMBA, but it still is really wrong.
HP has wizard software that gets around this somehow, but Apple can't even
remember it was in the printer business 4 years ago. 
9 Nov
9 Nov
1:38 a.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
Geoff Reed wrote:
Nope, WFW3.11, Win95 and Win98 were designed as "small office / home
operating systems" and were never given support for LPR protocol as you
weren't expected to see that in a SOHO / Workgroup or Home setting. (In
yet another previous incarnation I was a support tech for POS at Microsoft
[Personal Operating Systems] )
Dateline 2035
M$ has finally perfected windows. It now crashes before the install is
complete.
Ben Franchuk.
--
Live "Pre-historic Cpu's" -- and you thought they were extinct.
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
2:25 a.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
Geoff Reed wrote:
HA!
I guess you have never installed Windows where it crashed while detecting all
of the hardware on the computer... There is even a message to tell you what
to do if the computer stops functioning for a long period of time..
"Power off the computer, wait a few minutes and turn back on"
Bryan
Nope, WFW3.11, Win95 and Win98 were designed as "small office / home
operating systems" and were never given support for LPR protocol as you
weren't expected to see that in a SOHO / Workgroup or Home setting. (In
yet another previous incarnation I was a support tech for POS at Microsoft
[Personal Operating Systems] )
Dateline 2035
M$ has finally perfected windows. It now crashes before the install is
complete.
3:23 a.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
Bryan Pope wrote:
I guess you have never installed Windows where it crashed while detecting all
of the hardware on the computer... There is even a message to tell you what
to do if the computer stops functioning for a long period of time..
"Power off the computer, wait a few minutes and turn back on"
No I just have the fun with no CD-ROM drive under DOS. Format C: drive.
I start linux from bootfloppy -- run from 2nd HD. Copy the W95
directory
from CD-ROM and other drivers from the linux HD.Reboot.
Install Windows
from DOS.
Run windows...
Ben Franchuk.
--
Live "Pre-historic Cpu's" -- and you thought they were extinct.
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
11 Nov
11 Nov
1:34 p.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
Not to be perceived as a defender of Microsoft or Window but that message
has a reason. Some hardware if probed will cause a lockup of the system
regardless of the OS running.
The NE2000 and true compatibles are just such cards. If you probe for one
at base 300 and the card isn't there, instant crash. This is why warp and
linux don't pick NE's up at this address automatically. The probe
writer's knew this would happen and just didn't probe there....
Regards,
Jeff
In <3BEC10F4.96599E7C(a)jetnet.ab.ca>ca>, on 11/09/01
at 10:23 AM, Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca> said:
>
> I guess you have never installed Windows where it crashed while detecting all
> of the hardware on the computer... There is even a message to tell you what
> to do if the computer stops functioning for a long period of time..
> "Power off the computer, wait a few minutes and turn back on"
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey S. Worley
Asheville, NC USA
828-6984887
UberTechnoid(a)Home.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
4:02 a.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
Nope, WFW3.11, Win95 and Win98 were designed as
"small office / home
operating systems" and were never given support for LPR protocol as you
weren't expected to see that in a SOHO / Workgroup or Home setting. (In
yet another previous incarnation I was a support tech for POS at Microsoft
[Personal Operating Systems] )
I could have sworn I had set up Win95 machines with support for unix printers.
I don't recall that possibility in Win98, which seemed to ship with a reduced
driver set than Win95.
Eric
12:33 p.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
speaking of HELL .....
I recently read about an engineer who, on passing, was dispatched to the pearly
gates, only to be rejected for some inexplicable reason. On his subsequent
arrival at the "other place" he began to snoop around for things to tinker
with,
and, after a while, the running cold water, air conditioning, filtration system,
etc, were all working, and the agonized screams of many of the inhabitants had
subsided, so a background music system was installed, along with a full range of
satellite TV.
Eventually God came around to call on Satan, who had, up to that point, kept
news of the modifications to his digs quiet. The first thing that came up in
their meeting, of course, was the relative comfort and elegance of the
surroundings, about which Beelzebub remarked, "... well, yes, that engineer you
sent me didn't like it the way it was, so he fixed a few things that had been
broken down for some time."
"Really? Well, I want him back!" was the Almighty's response, to which
Mephistopheles quickly remarked, "No, you can't have him! You had your chance,
and you sent him here. Now he's mine."
"I'll sue!" replied the Creator, to which the Devil smiled, and said,
"Now, just
where are YOU going to get a lawyer?"
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric J. Korpela" <korpela(a)ssl.berkeley.edu>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: Windows, std OS in Hell
Nope, WFW3.11,
Win95 and Win98 were designed as "small office / home
operating systems" and were never given support for LPR protocol as you
weren't expected to see that in a SOHO / Workgroup or Home setting. (In
yet another previous incarnation I was a support tech for POS at Microsoft
[Personal Operating Systems] )
I could have sworn I had set up Win95 machines with support for unix printers.
I don't recall that possibility in Win98, which seemed to ship with a reduced
driver set than Win95.
Eric
2:06 a.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
In WFW 3.1 support was added for network printing protocols using "SMBs"
over NetBIOS I believe (these are ancient memories here). Several folks
offer print "servers" that listen for the broadcasts and can print. The HP
JetDirect series is probably the most prevalent.
The issue with later printers wasn't Windows but the Vendors. At one point
HP would prevent you from "sharing" (aka allowing others on the network to
use) their low end inkjets. This was to encourage you to buy more expensive
inkjets (supposedly heavier duty). I believe they figured out they sell
more ink either way and dropped this but I'm not sure.
The other thing HP did was invent their own printing protocol (the
JetDirect protocol) and they would install a virtual printer driver that
could talk that protocol to talk to their printers.
--Chuck
At 01:20 AM 11/9/01 -0800, Mike Ford wrote:
I've been digging at this problem for a few weeks,
and I almost don't
believe the answer. Windows machines apparently won't print directly to
network printers. (obviously NT will, ditto maybe w2k, but not 95 or 98).
The story I hear is that Microsoft wanted to sell more NT servers, so they
pulled the support for standard protocols like LPR (something like that)
forcing users to print from a workstation to a NT server, which contains
the protocols to talk to the network printers directly. Why did windows
users allow MicroSoft to get away with crap like that?
BTW the sane alternative appears to be SAMBA, but it still is really wrong.
HP has wizard software that gets around this somehow, but Apple can't even
remember it was in the printer business 4 years ago.
6:28 p.m.
New subject: Windows, std OS in Hell
The other thing HP did was invent their own printing
protocol (the
JetDirect protocol) and they would install a virtual printer driver that
could talk that protocol to talk to their printers.
My HP 4M with a 10/100 jetdirect card is working fine after running this HP
wizard jetdirect installer software, but I'll be damned if I know whats
going on.
I checked a couple download sites and sure enough two dozen different
shareware and commercial products will do LPR on windows 98, but the two
practical solutions seem to remain; A SAMBA server, or just plugging the PC
in with a parallel cable. How barbaric.
8 Nov
8 Nov
4:45 p.m.
New subject: Alignment Disks
Does anyone have a source for a 5 1/4 inch alignment disk? I've got a few
floppies for my N* that are outta alignment....
9 Nov
9 Nov
10:22 a.m.
New subject: Alignment Disks
On Thu, 8 Nov 2001, Geoff Reed wrote:
Does anyone have a source for a 5 1/4 inch alignment
disk? I've got a few
floppies for my N* that are outta alignment....
I have not checked this lately, but you might check with:
Accurite Technologies, Inc.
231 Charcot Avenue
San Jose CA 95131-1107
408-433-1980 voice
408-433-1716 fax
www.accurite.com
- don
8395
days inactive
8398
days old
14 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
bpope＠wordstock.com -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
donm＠cts.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
korpela＠ssl.berkeley.edu -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
mythtech＠Mac.com -
UberTechnoid＠home.com