At 08:12 PM 6/18/2003 +0100, you wrote: No, they are just fairly expensive, especially if you need to replace a large number of them. In my case, the fans in one chassis have seen enough weather that they have rusted and become frozen in place. I've found a source for about $10, but that is still a significant chunk of change... --tom

On Thu, 19 Jun 2003, Mail List wrote: I think the idea is to *not* steal such parts from other systems. As for having 9 fans, IIRC they have 4. Often these fans are very worn anyway, as they've seen a pretty hard life. Maybe the best way to get these fans would be to order a case of fans directly from a company such as Nidec or Papst? -Toth

Quothe Tom Uban, from writings of Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 11:02:24AM -0500: It would have been easier and quicker in the long run, considering how long it took you to find a source for the fans, and the time it takes to purchase them, to have repaired your fans. Doh! :-) It really is a simple process to disassemble a fan and pack the bearings with new grease to make it spin freely again. ...but then, far too many people have become lazily wasteful, just replacing things rather than repairing them, then moaning about all of the pollution, toxic-waste and related resulting problems. Instead of learning a lesson from this, and then repairing things and keeping them longer, the dimwits look to more landfills and waste recycling, as the "solution" when proper "recycling," e.g. repair rather than replacement, could have prevented the problems in the first place. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

Quothe Tom Uban, from writings of Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 12:58:45PM -0500: Ouch. Rust is not fun. At least you got to the system before everything was rusted out. Good luck with it! No, sorry, I can't say that you qualify for those. To qualify, you need to become more like the average person in the post-1970's U.S., or, better yet, the average politician. ;-) My remark was aimed more at our throw-away society in general than this list. Hopefully you were able to salvage some ICs from the boards before sending them off to the scrapper. -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Fri, Jun 20, 2003 at 10:12:28PM +0100: Yes... in a case like that, buying a new one makes much more sense, and then save the old ones for spare parts, or, for later repair in case the fans turn into unobtanium. Of course I don't! You're the one who told me how to rebuild the fans in my 11/44. :-) [grouch mode on] I was just griping about the throw-away society in which we live... "it's old and broken, so toss it out and buy new" or "he's old and not functioning properly, so dispose of him by tossing him into a nursing home," etc. It makes no sense and doesn't say much good about humanity. [grouch mode off] Just the other day, I repaired a Westclox alarm clock... the "real" type of clock with hands and a dial, not one of those blasted digital display annoyances. A very simple repair, actually, which involved replacing the neon lamp which illuminates the dial. Granted, the clock cost under US$10 IIRC, but I still think that this repair was more sensible than replacing the clock. Interestingly, I learned something interesting about failing neon lamps. The failing lamp would light in the daylight, but flicker dimly in the dark. I never realized before that neon lamps were light-sensitive. Can anyone explain this? -- Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

You think I _didn't_ keep the bits of the old fans? Of course I did :-). And some of them have already proved useful in restoring other fans.... Actually, IMNO the 'real' type of clock doesn't use electrical parts at all. It's entirely mechanical. And yes, I do fiddle with those from time to time too... Of course... I first saw this on the PSU neons in my 11/45 system (see, it's on-topic :-)). They would light steadily with the CPU pulled out on the slides, but would fliker when it was pushed back in. I first thought it was a bad connection and spent a long time checking. Then I realised it was due to light falling on the neon bulb. Apparently, light will cause some photoemision from the cathode in the neon, and maybe will also cause a bit of photoionisation of the neon gas itself. This causes the bulb to strike at a lower voltage. This was a problem when ROMs consisted of an array of neon bulbs with a photomultiplier pointed at them. It was common practice to illuminate all the neons just before one was required to strike (and to gate out the resulting pulse from the PM output) (See, for example 'Cold Cathode Tube Circuit Design'). -tony