11 Dec
1998
11 Dec
'98
12:28 a.m.
For anyone that is interested, I have a Z-80 Emulator for sale on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=48474125
Neil.
11 Dec
11 Dec
6:16 a.m.
For anyone that is interested, I have a Z-80 Emulator
for sale on Ebay.
Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the connection to
the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?
Gruss
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
6 a.m.
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Hans Franke wrote:
C'mon, Hans! Get with it. This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 12/07/98]
For anyone
that is interested, I have a Z-80 Emulator for sale on Ebay.
Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the connection to
the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ? 
6:22 a.m.
Sam Ismail wrote:
Nope, this is just a way of putting a value on it!
And speaking of value, the November 1975 issue of Popular Electronics
(Altair 680 issue) sold for $41.00. A week or so ago, the January 1975
issue of Popular Electronics sold for $503.00. Something is worth what
someone else is willing to pay for it.
Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the
connection to
the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?
C'mon, Hans! Get with it. This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
thinking this thing is worth more than it really is. 
10:56 a.m.
Well, the reason that I put 'Altair Imsai S100 Bus' on it is so that people
could find it during the search process. While other Mfg. used the processors,
most people that would be looking for something like that would also be
interested in that other stuff. Additionally, There were boards made with the
z80 for the S100 bus machines. Could be used by any of those people. No
intention to 'dupe' anyone, just find the ones that would be interested in
looking at it.
Neil.
Marvin wrote:
Sam Ismail wrote:
Nope, this is just a way of putting a value on it!
And speaking of value, the November 1975 issue of Popular Electronics
(Altair 680 issue) sold for $41.00. A week or so ago, the January 1975
issue of Popular Electronics sold for $503.00. Something is worth what
someone else is willing to pay for it.
Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the
connection to
the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?
C'mon, Hans! Get with it. This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.
13 Dec
13 Dec
7:18 a.m.
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Neil B. Sheldon wrote:
interested in that other stuff. Additionally, There
were boards made with the
z80 for the S100 bus machines. Could be used by any of those people. No
intention to 'dupe' anyone, just find the ones that would be interested in
looking at it.
So? The TRS-80 was also a Z-80 computer. Would you advertise a TRS-80 as
an "Altair/IMSAI 8080" clone?
Your argument is doubly silly since the Altair and IMSAI were 8080-based.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 12/07/98]
7:02 a.m.
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote:
Nope, this is just a way of putting a value on it!
What!? Hardly! This is an unfortunate justification of tactics used to
deceive ignorant buyers. Its misleading, pure and simple, and is meant to
artificially inflate the value of an otherwise uninteresting artifact.
Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the connection
to
the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?
C'mon, Hans! Get with it. This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
thinking this thing is worth more than it really is. And speaking of value, the November 1975 issue of
Popular Electronics
(Altair 680 issue) sold for $41.00. A week or so ago, the January 1975
issue of Popular Electronics sold for $503.00. Something is worth what
someone else is willing to pay for it.
Maybe it would be more appropriate to discuss the stupidity of the people
paying these amounts then.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 12/07/98]
8:47 a.m.
New subject: Advertising
Sam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote:
Nope, this is just a way of putting a value on it!
What!? Hardly! This is an unfortunate justification of tactics used to
deceive ignorant buyers. Its misleading, pure and simple, and is meant to
artificially inflate the value of an otherwise uninteresting artifact.
First of all, let the buyer beware; ANYONE buying ANYTHING should keep that
in mind. Money makes a really good educator ... at least for some of us.
Second, you are confusing deceit with advertising (although some may argue
they are one and the same :). ) If someone sees something and decides to
either buy or not buy, that is their decision. However the key word here is
"see". I am not a fan of emulators, but for those that are, this might be
something they are interested in. This could also be a way for someone who
didn't realize emulators are out there to find out about them.
Finally, my comment about putting a value on it was about putting it on
ebay. Quite possible I misread the meanings of the other comments :)!
Nice the Nice :) I just can't get the connection
to
the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?
C'mon, Hans! Get with it. This is just a cheezy way to dupe people into
thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.
14 Dec
14 Dec
12:14 a.m.
New subject: Advertising
> > > > Nice the Nice :) I just can't
get the connection to
> > > > the Item title: 'S100 BUS IMSAI ALTAIR Z80 EMULATOR'
> > > > Is there any S100 stuff included ? Or anything form /
> > > > for an Altair or IMSAI ? Or at least a good story ?
> > > C'mon, Hans! Get with it. This is just a cheezy way to dupe people
into
> > > thinking this thing is worth more than it really is.
> > Nope, this is just a way of putting a value on it!
> What!? Hardly! This is an unfortunate justification of tactics used to
> deceive ignorant buyers. Its misleading, pure and simple, and is meant to
> artificially inflate the value of an otherwise uninteresting artifact.
First of all, let the buyer beware; ANYONE buying
ANYTHING should keep that
in mind. Money makes a really good educator ... at least for some of us.
As long as they are able to pay the learning fee :)
Second, you are confusing deceit with advertising
(although some may argue
they are one and the same :). ) If someone sees something and decides to
either buy or not buy, that is their decision. However the key word here is
"see". I am not a fan of emulators, but for those that are, this might be
something they are interested in. This could also be a way for someone who
didn't realize emulators are out there to find out about them.
In fact, as far as I can see, this isn't an emulator, its
a Z80 ICE, and nothing more than that, so using buzzwords
like Altair, Imsai and S100 are just ... hmm lets say free
flowing brainstorming ...
Finally, my comment about putting a value on it was
about putting it on
ebay. Quite possible I misread the meanings of the other comments :)!
Shure, I read it that was. Only the way of 'advertising' is anoying.
Gruss
Hans
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
13 Dec
13 Dec
9:14 a.m.
New subject: Value
Sam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote:
Come on Sam, you of all people should realize that what we have out here is
not necessarily easily available in other parts of the country. I think you
are imposing your own education and knowledge of what is available here on
others who may not be so fortunate.
As one example of what is available here (Santa Barbara), but not elsewhere,
I *highly* doubt anyone else anywhere in the world could have come up with
the collection of Polymorphic stuff I have (including source code, parts
lists, engineering drawings, specs, business plan, etc., etc., etc.) That
happened because 1) they were made here in Santa Barbara, and 2) contacts I
have knew about my collecting and were able to save this stuff from going to
the dump.
So assuming you had, lets say, the Polymorphic Business plan, how would you
put a value on it? While I don't know how many were made let alone still
around, I rather doubt there are more than perhaps a couple in existance now
(I only know of this one.) I am really interested to hear your answer on
this one!!!
Heading off your comments that this is an unusual situation (which I think
it is), certain areas have a higher concentration of technical types than
others, university towns, silicon valley, Boston area, etc. Things are much
more likely to be found in those areas than areas like, lets say, the
Michigan Upper Pennisula (sp?.) So what is the difference in availability
of something between the two areas? How would that affect the price (value)
of a given item in the two areas?
And speaking of value, the November 1975 issue of
Popular Electronics
(Altair 680 issue) sold for $41.00. A week or so ago, the January 1975
issue of Popular Electronics sold for $503.00. Something is worth what
someone else is willing to pay for it.
Maybe it would be more appropriate to discuss the stupidity of the people
paying these amounts then.
10:34 a.m.
New subject: Value
On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote:
As one example of what is available here (Santa
Barbara), but not elsewhere,
I *highly* doubt anyone else anywhere in the world could have come up with
the collection of Polymorphic stuff I have (including source code, parts
lists, engineering drawings, specs, business plan, etc., etc., etc.) That
happened because 1) they were made here in Santa Barbara, and 2) contacts I
have knew about my collecting and were able to save this stuff from going to
the dump.
So assuming you had, lets say, the Polymorphic Business plan, how would you
put a value on it? While I don't know how many were made let alone still
around, I rather doubt there are more than perhaps a couple in existance now
(I only know of this one.) I am really interested to hear your answer on
this one!!!
I don't see how your anecdote relates to the issue at hand. I still don't
see how advertising a Z-80 emulator in relation to an IMSAI or Altair
makes any sense. He has the right to engage in such deceptive practices,
certainly. But I'm not going to condone it. Its just taking this
exploitation of "collectable" computers too far. It would have made more
sense for him to advertise this machine on comp.os.cpm or maybe
alt.folklore.computers, or any of the various newsgroups devoted to
computers that actually were based on a Z-80, like comp.sys.tandy.
I don't have a problem with people trying to make a buck in this hobby.
Certainly I'm guilty of the same thing. What I do have a problem with is
people attempting to shamelessly exploit it.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Always being hassled by the man.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 12/07/98]
10:46 a.m.
New subject: Value
On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Sam Ismail wrote:
He has the right to engage in such deceptive
practices,
certainly.
Say what? Deceptive advertsing is illegal. You can file a complaint with
the FTC if you'd like. As you might guess, it's one of those many crimes
easy for an individual or small seller to get away with.
Since prosecution of such crimes is so unlikely, I've been thinking of
forming vigilante.net (damn, just checked, and it's already taken!), a
network of sysadmins around the country willing to LART these guys,
sellers that engage is shill bidding, crooks that take the money and run,
crooks that send damaged goods, etc.
-- Doug
14 Dec
14 Dec
9:59 a.m.
New subject: Value
Since prosecution of such crimes is so unlikely,
I've been thinking of
forming vigilante.net (damn, just checked, and it's already taken!), a
vigilante.com and .de are still available
(and of course .mil if you prefer the hard way :)
network of sysadmins around the country willing to
LART these guys,
sellers that engage is shill bidding, crooks that take the money and run,
crooks that send damaged goods, etc.
Don't forget the seller that add rules after completation of
the auction and then plays kind of jo-jo game...
Gruss
H.
--
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
9:23 a.m.
New subject: Value
On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Hans Franke wrote:
Don't forget the seller that add rules after
completation of
the auction and then plays kind of jo-jo game...
Jo-jo was a man who thought he was a loner. Get back, jo-jo!
Oh. Yo-yo? Nevermind.
ObCC: Have you ever wondered what such pioneers as Danny Hillis, Stuart
Brand, Mitch Kapor, and Doug Carlston were up to these days? Not yo-yos,
but close: clocks.
http:/www.longnow.com/
-- Doug
13 Dec
13 Dec
11:22 a.m.
New subject: Value
Sam Ismail wrote:
I don't see how your anecdote relates to the issue
at hand. I still don't
see how advertising a Z-80 emulator in relation to an IMSAI or Altair
makes any sense. He has the right to engage in such deceptive practices,
I thought I explained the anecdote issue in the following paragraph you
didn't quote.
As far as deceptive practices, the only thing I might take issue with is the
minor detail that most Altairs and IMSAIs I have seen use the 8080 rather
than the Z80. I guess a case might be made for upgrading to a Z80, but
again, there is nothing to stop a prospective buyer from emailing the seller
to find out more about an item.
11:36 a.m.
New subject: Value
On Sun, 13 Dec 1998, Marvin wrote:
As far as deceptive practices, the only thing I might
take issue with is the
minor detail that most Altairs and IMSAIs I have seen use the 8080 rather
than the Z80. I guess a case might be made for upgrading to a Z80, but
again, there is nothing to stop a prospective buyer from emailing the seller
to find out more about an item.
Lemme get this straight. The guy uses S-100, Altair, and IMSAI in the
title, includes a little pseudo-Altair history in his ad, he's selling a
common Z80 ICE made in the late 80's, long after MITS and IMSAI were
shutdown, and you don't see this as deceptive?
What I like about it is that it seems to have back-fired. I'm sure there
are many more people that could use a Z80 ICE than there are computer
collectors, so he probably could have gotten a better price by being
completely straight.
-- Doug
14 Dec
14 Dec
6:24 p.m.
New subject: Value
At 12:14 PM 12/13/98 -0800, Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> wrote:
[snip]
Heading off your comments that this is an unusual
situation (which I think
it is), certain areas have a higher concentration of technical types than
others, university towns, silicon valley, Boston area, etc. Things are much
more likely to be found in those areas than areas like, lets say, the
Michigan Upper Pennisula (sp?.) So what is the difference in availability
of something between the two areas? How would that affect the price (value)
of a given item in the two areas?
Actually, it's possessive:
Michigan's Upper Peninsula,
but you're absolutely right! Being the foremost owner of CoCo stuff 'round
here (Eastern Upper Peninsula - Sault Ste. Marie), I can honestly say that
there were a lot of Tandy's in this area, as there's been a RS here for a
long time, and two across the border in Sault, Ontario, Canada.
There were a few Atari's floating around, but I've only every seen 1 ST ( a
Mega ST 4) until I bought mine (from a cousin who lives in Florida) which a
radio station recently parted with, and 4 Amigas... 3 of which are owned by
the mgr. of said radio station, 2 of which he was ready to junk... 'till he
met me! He's supposed to drop off 2 Amiga 1200's "when he finds/fills the
boxes."
Common classics are hard to come by around here -- the closest thing to
kinda rare I have is (that I know of):
Trackball for an Atari 5200 (serial #786)
Commodore B-128 (local college garage sale)
2 Superbrains (local college garage sale; anybody have boot disks???)
Tandy 600 (sent to me by a good friend in California 'cause it didn't work)
I honestly don't know if these are actually rare... almost everything up
here is rare (to me) and all of this wild, wicked stuff like OSI
Challengers, Ohio Scientific, and who knows what... are all just pipe
dreams to me. :-(
To be honest, I'd give my left nut to stumble across a PDP or some VAX
equipment, but that's still cheaper to have it shipped (a bare minimum of)
300 miles truck freight to my house.
(To be honest, if someone in Detroit is giving/selling some... I *can*
justify a roadtrip to my wife there...
Me: Dear, would you like to take a weekend and visit your Uncle???
Wifey: Sure!!! Let's Go!
...
Wifey: Dear, why are you hitching up the trailer???
Me: <Wink><Wink><Smirk> Trailer??? What Trailer???
California is a definate no-go... and (IMHO) most of the fun stuff
available is from there or other areas 800+ miles from home.)
Oh well... just my little locale rant... I'll shut up now. ;-)
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Happy Holidaze!!!
6:28 p.m.
New subject: Value
At 12:14 PM 12/13/98 -0800, Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> wrote:
...and 4 Amigas... 3 of which are owned by the mgr. of said radio station,
2 of which he was ready to junk... 'till he met me! He's supposed to drop
off 2 Amiga 1200's "when he finds/fills the boxes."
If you know of anybody else disposing of Amiga 1200's, I'd love to know
about it. It's one of the models I _don't_ have.
To be honest, I'd give my left nut to stumble
across a PDP or some VAX
equipment, but that's still cheaper to have it shipped (a bare minimum of)
300 miles truck freight to my house.
MIchigan shouldn't be any worse than Ohio for proximity of old stuff. I've
managed to score the odd VAX and even the occasional PDP-8, but not in the
past five years :-( PDP-11's are much more common. We had a rash of
PRO-350's on the flea market circuit for $25-$40 a few years ago. I got
a PRO-350 with (original) Venix disks. Not only were they free, but the
guy *dropped them off*, too.
Mostly, I run across stuff by blind luck. Sometimes, people call me to
tell me that they are disposing of stuff at work, but not often. I'm
attempting to rescue some TC11's and TU55's at Lucent, but their rigid
disposal policy might consign them to the crusher. :-(
Keep searching, and if you ever have too many Amiga 1200's, I'm here to
help.
-ethan
7:19 p.m.
New subject: Remote Locations... (was: Re: Value
At 12:28 AM 12/15/98 -0500, ethan wrote:
Oh, I'd certainly rather had is 4000T... but that was "over his (and his
wife's) dead bodies; etc...
If I actually find more than these two, I'll keep you in mind.
Ah, but remember: Michigan is 394 miles high, and damn near as wide!!!
Detroit, Ann Arbor, Flint, Saginaw... sure, but the northernmost exit to
Bay City is 230 Miles away. From Bay City to Sault Ste. Marie you have:
Farmland, Gaylord, Farmland, the Mackinac Bridge, Farmland, the Sault.
I have nothing against farmers (spent 4 years in the FFA myself)... but not
many farmers I know have Vaxen at their garage sales... (Now, if you need a
*hay baler...* ;-)))
Heading straight west from the Sault, you have:
the Sault, Hiawatha National Forest, Marquette, even less, a whole bunch of
Wisconsin that looked just like Michigan, then Duluth, Minnesota.
Otherwise, Green Bay / Bay City are roughly 4 hours away each... that's the
best I can do.
Sillycon Valley this ain't...
(BTW, for you history buffs, Sault Ste. Marie is the 3rd oldest city in the
USA... founded in 1668.)
Yes, again I ramble...
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Happy Holidaze!
At 12:14 PM
12/13/98 -0800, Marvin <marvin(a)rain.org> wrote:
...and 4 Amigas... 3 of which are owned by the mgr. of said radio station,
2 of which he was ready to junk... 'till he met me! He's supposed to drop
off 2 Amiga 1200's "when he finds/fills the boxes."
If you know of anybody else disposing of Amiga 1200's, I'd love to know
about it. It's one of the models I _don't_ have. To be honest,
I'd give my left nut to stumble across a PDP or some VAX
equipment, but that's still cheaper to have it shipped (a bare minimum of)
300 miles truck freight to my house.
MIchigan shouldn't be any worse than Ohio for proximity of old stuff.
9357
days inactive
9361
days old
18 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
erd＠infinet.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
marvin＠rain.org -
neil＠goodnet.com -
neil＠netzone.com -
yowza＠yowza.com -
zmerch＠30below.com