12 Jun
2001
12 Jun
'01
6:24 a.m.
On June 12, John Allain wrote:
Anybody want to say a word or two about 205's?
My recollection was that it was the first Seymour Cray
machine, probably about 20+ MIPS, probably fixed/short
electrical path, and probably rectangular (pre circular)
shape. Anything right?
Oh nonono. Seymour Cray was one of the founders of CDC in 1957. He
was the primary architect of nearly all of their early machines, the
first of which I believe was the 1604, introduced in 1958.
Seymour Cray left CDC in 1972 to form Cray Research, the first
product of which was the Cray 1 which shipped in 1976.
About the Cyber 205...CDC started the design of the "Star 100" in
the mid 1960s. It wasn't completed until 1973, and being based on
1960s technology, it wasn't competitive. It was redesigned in newer
LSI technology and re-released as the "Cyber 203E" in 1979. Shortly
thereafter it was renamed to "Cyber 205".
But yes, it is rectangular. And big. I would give my right arm to
be able to restore/preserve/own a functional Cyber205 (or any Cyber
for that matter, anybody have a smaller one available?)...the one at
Purdue seems to have been gutted, sigh.
-Dave McGuire
12 Jun
12 Jun
7:34 a.m.
New subject: VXT2000 images ?
I seem to recall seeing some information on this in the past, but
I haven't been able to dredge any up.
Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or
windows box?
Also, does anyone know where the binaries, etc can be found?
--tnx
--tom
8:36 a.m.
New subject: VXT2000 images ?
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Tom Uban wrote:
I seem to recall seeing some information on this in
the past, but
I haven't been able to dredge any up.
Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or
windows box?
Also, does anyone know where the binaries, etc can be found?
--tnx
--tom
Yes, you can boot it from any unix system. When booting it tries a variety
of protocols, at least on is rarp with tftp followup, but it also tries
lat.
The x terminal management software is included on the freeware version of
VMS which contains the binary boot images. You can still download it
from compaq, I haven't got the url handy right now.
However, I've not been
able to decode it, I assume it's in vmsbackup format,
but I haven't found
a tool which will actually read it, so I might be wrong.
However, I did find an image for it some time ago, it's a test version
of the full fledged everything and the kitchen sink version of the boot
image, including a terminal program and window manager. This requires
quite a bit of memory to work. You can get it at:
http://www.dnd.utwente.nl/~auke/VXT/VXT021K7.SYS
regards,
Auke van Slooten
12:08 p.m.
New subject: VXT2000 images ?
The x terminal management software is included on the
freeware version of
VMS which contains the binary boot images. You can still download it
Are you sure? I didn't think anything like that was on the OpenVMS Hobbyist
disks (or was this on the V1 disk)?
from compaq, I haven't got the url handy right
now. However, I've not been
able to decode it, I assume it's in vmsbackup format, but I haven't found
a tool which will actually read it, so I might be wrong.
Try http://www.openvms.compaq.com/freeware which is your best source for
freeware software for OpenVMS.
Zane
9:14 a.m.
New subject: VXT2000 images ?
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Tom Uban wrote:
I seem to recall seeing some information on this in
the past, but
I haven't been able to dredge any up.
Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or
windows box?
Also, does anyone know where the binaries, etc can be found?
--tnx
--tom
I have a couple VXT2000s and looked into this once.
Its available (or was) on the Compaq web site, I think VXTKT021.A
is what you want. It is unfortunatly a VMS save set but maybe someone with
VMS can unpack it for you... Someone with a VXT2000 or VXT1300 may have
done this already.
It probably will boot from anything with TFTP but may require MOP, not
sure...
Peter Wallace
4:09 p.m.
New subject: VXT2000 images ?
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001, Tom Uban wrote:
> I seem to recall seeing some information on this
in the past, but
> I haven't been able to dredge any up.
>
> Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or
> windows box?
[...]
It probably will boot from anything with TFTP but may require MOP, not
sure...
And even if it requires MOP, there's a MOP server which runs under Linux,
NetBSD, and I think OpenBSD. I use this server to boot my various VAX
systems diskless.
-brian.
9:20 a.m.
New subject: VXT2000 images ?
I seem to recall seeing some information on this in
the past, but
I haven't been able to dredge any up.
Does anyone know if a VXT2000 can be booted from a non-dec unix or
windows box?
Also, does anyone know where the binaries, etc can be found?
I think they are one the OpenVMS FREEWARE CDROM. You can access
the CDROM from www.openvms.compaq.com.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
12:20 p.m.
New subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question
I think I asked this before, but here's another go:
Can the VMS VAX Documentation CD (Ver. 7.1) be viewed on anything at all
other than VMS? I have linux, Compaq Tru64 Unix V5.0, I could install
NetBSD on something, but without any dox at all I'm having a bugger of a
time learning VMS... :-(
Also, a quickie question: how many pins are on the Unibus?
Thanks,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
12:54 p.m.
New subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question
Also, a quickie question: how many pins are on the Unibus?
Damn a stumper.
Backplane Slots A and B are unibus...
There's DEC Standard numbering IIRC...
ABCDEFHJKLMNPRSTUV
000000000111111111 So that's 18 pins per row -- two sided AA1 AA2 etc
123456789012345678 is 36 times 2 slots an you get 72 pins -- I think.
I checked the pins with the VAX 11/750 Hardware Maintenance Handbook
AA1-AV1
AA2-AV2
BA1-BV1
BA2-BV2
Thanks,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
Bill
(who got it wrong figuring by memory)
---
Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
1:20 p.m.
New subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question
Can the VMS VAX Documentation CD (Ver. 7.1) be viewed
on anything at all
other than VMS? I have linux, Compaq Tru64 Unix V5.0, I could install
NetBSD on something, but without any dox at all I'm having a bugger of a
time learning VMS... :-(
I don't think the older ones can be, as I believe they're in ODS-2 format,
however, I do have a faint memory there might be a reader somewhere. I just
got OpenVMS V7.2-1H1, and the Documentation CD-ROM that came with it can be
read on both a OpenVMS system and a standard Windows Desktop (I've not tried
anything else, and can't remember the specifics at the moment).
Why don't you just go to http://www.openvms.compaq.com:8000/ and read the
Doc's online? Even if you're running V7.1, the V7.2 doc's there will be of
a big help in getting your system up and running. Once the system is up,
just type HELP.
Zane
2:24 p.m.
New subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question
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13 Jun
13 Jun
4:47 a.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Does anyone know of a modern connector that will substitute for a real
DEC connector? The H-11 used a different one for its Q-bus backplane,
for example. I am attempting to make a replacement H851 (well, over
a dozen, really) so I can restore a PDP-8/e (three core stacks plus an
RK8E I just received).
In case anyone who knows connectors doesn't know the DEC specs - the pins
are on 0.125" centers and the edge connector is somewhat taller than, say
an ISA connector or a 5.25" floppy edge connector (it's 0.625", but the
Heath connector does not accept the entire length)
-ethan
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Also, a
quickie question: how many pins are on the Unibus?
Each DEC edge connector has 36 pins (18 a side, 2 sides).
9:28 a.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
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2:03 p.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
As you mention below, it's 0.125" pitch. The
only other common connector
with that pitch is (IIRC) the S100 edge connector. Consider cutting some
down :-) :-) It'll look a right mess, but it should work.
I can get 28/56 pin connectors (~$4 each) and cut them down - I'm looking
at a Sullins EZA28DCSN. Given that I'm attempting to replicate a DEC H851,
I suppose I could cut two down to size, but put them on a PCB with the cut
edges on opposite sides, providing for _some_ sort of left-right registration
integrity. The PCB would be about 2.5" by 1" with 72 holes. Depending on
quantity, they might be <$10 for double-sided with plated-through holes.
A single-sided version I could do at home on a prototype run (never tried
to burn double-sided boards at home).
This is a perfect example of why it's better buy than make electronic bits.
Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a 0.125" pitch
44 pin (22 pin DS) edge
connector. No, I don't mean 0.156" (I was asking about those a few weeks
back, I know). The 0.125" version is used as the expansion connector on
one classic (very classic) desktop machine.
Sullins has a 50/100 0.125" connector in a high-profile (0.265" insertion
depth) - EZA50DCSD You could cut _that_ down.
Anyone know of any other 0.125" edge connector manufacturers?
Minor puzzle : Which machine?
No idea.
-ethan
P.S. - These numbers brought to you courtesy of page 170 of the DigiKey
catalog.
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3:03 p.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
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3:40 p.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Of course it is. It's far from my first choice, but I can not find the
right thing anywhere.
Doh! Right you are. Didn't read carefully.
I suppose I
could cut two down to size, but put them on a PCB with the cut
edges on opposite sides...
It's a bit of a kludge! I've done DS boards on the sort of setup you'd
have at home (bubble etch
tank, UV box). Worked fine -- registration was not as big a problem as
you might think. But through-hole plating is impossible I think.
Right... requires lots of strange processes. For a DS board, people used
to use metal eyelets to line the holes. I even have a few DEC FLIP-CHIPs
made that way.
Sullins has a
50/100 0.125" connector...
My 44 pins was the total -- 22 each side. Which means the 56 pin
connector (28 each side) could be cut down too.... It's still a kludge
and I'd rather get the right part if at all possible. OK, a few hints... Many people wouldn't call it a
computer (although it
is). There are a total of 8 ICs in it, and all are simple 8 pin devices.
A fair number of transistors and diodes, but not as many as you'd expect.
There aren't any TTL gates with 8 pins that I know of, so I immediately
think of linear parts and/or 555 timers. I still have no idea.
-ethan
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3:46 p.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
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4:04 p.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
HP 9100?
Tony Duell wrote:
My 44 pins was the total -- 22 each side. Which means the 56 pin
connector (28 each side) could be cut down too.... It's still a kludge
and I'd rather get the right part if at all possible.
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Right...
As you mention below, it's 0.125" pitch.
The only other common connector
with that pitch is (IIRC) the S100 edge connector. Consider cutting some
down :-) :-) It'll look a right mess, but it should work.
I can get 28/56 pin connectors (~$4 each) and cut them down - I'm looking
at a Sullins EZA28DCSN. Given that I'm attempting to replicate a DEC H851, I suppose I could cut two down to size, but put
them on a PCB with the cut
edges on opposite sides, providing for _some_ sort of left-right registration
integrity. The PCB would be about 2.5" by 1" with 72 holes. Depending on
It's a bit of a kludge!
quantity, they might be <$10 for double-sided
with plated-through holes.
A single-sided version I could do at home on a prototype run (never tried
to burn double-sided boards at home).
I've done DS boards on the sort of setup you'd have at home (bubble etch
tank, UV box). Worked fine -- registration was not as big a problem as
you might think. But through-hole plating is impossible I think.
This is a perfect example of why it's better buy than make electronic bits.
True _if_ you can buy them. Otherwise you have to make them.
Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a 0.125"
pitch 44 pin (22 pin DS) edge
connector. No, I don't mean 0.156" (I was asking about those a few weeks
back, I know). The 0.125" version is used as the expansion connector on
one classic (very classic) desktop machine.
Sullins has a 50/100 0.125" connector in a high-profile (0.265" insertion
depth) - EZA50DCSD You could cut _that_ down.
Anyone know of any other 0.125" edge connector manufacturers?
OK, a few hints... Many people wouldn't call it a computer (although it
is). There are a total of 8 ICs in it, and all are simple 8 pin devices.
A fair number of transistors and diodes, but not as many as you'd expect.
-tony Minor puzzle : Which machine?
No idea.
4:03 p.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
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14 Jun
14 Jun
3:43 p.m.
New subject: Unibus (was Re: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question)
I've got some documentation on these, I repaired one for a friend many
years back.
Clearly one of the most collectable vintage machines!
Tony Duell wrote:
HP 9100?
Exactly..
The 8 pin chips are the sense amplifiers and comparators on the
(magnetic) card reader PCB. All the logic is discrete components (and
that wonderful ROM-in-a-PCB).
> > > Incidentally, has anyone ever seen
a 0.125" pitch 44 pin (22 pin DS) edge
> > > connector. No, I don't mean 0.156" (I was asking about those a
few weeks
> > > back, I know). The 0.125" version is used as the expansion connector
on
> > > one classic (very classic) desktop machine.
[...]
> > > > Minor puzzle : Which machine?
> > >
> > > No idea.
> >
> > OK, a few hints... Many people wouldn't call it a computer (although it
> > is). There are a total of 8 ICs in it, and all are simple 8 pin devices.
> > A fair number of transistors and diodes, but not as many as you'd expect.
13 Jun
13 Jun
11:35 a.m.
New subject: VMS Documentation CD-ROM &unibus question
Roger Merchberger wrote:
Can the VMS VAX Documentation CD (Ver. 7.1) be viewed on anything
at all other than VMS? I have linux, Compaq Tru64 Unix V5.0
I read my ODS-2 format CDs under Linux with vmscd, from
<URL:http://perso.club-internet.fr/lelegard/vmscd/>. This is just a copy
utility, so I copy off a load of the Bookreader files and then use a
slightly hacked version of Doug Jones' webbook.
Regards,
Paul
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
auke＠muze.nl -
bdc＠world.std.com -
bshannon＠tiac.net -
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dittman＠dittman.net -
ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pcw＠mesanet.com -
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uban＠ubanproductions.com -
zmerch＠30below.com