11 Jul
2005
11 Jul
'05
11:09 p.m.
Hi, I pulled out my 64-sx out of the box it's been stored with in
anticipation of getting my JiffyDos upgrade installed into it. To my
dismay, when I plugged it all in and powered it on, the keyboard
wouldn't work properly. Any of the keys have to be pressed multiple
times (3 to 10 times) in order to get the character to show up on
screen.
Any suggested remedies? I'm wondering if the keyboard contacts are
just a little dirty and need a little cleaning, but I wanted to check
with the gurus before prying it apart.
Thanks,
Louis
--
Louis Florit
AIM: lflorit MSN:louis_florit at hotmail.com Y!: indygolunaria
11 Jul
11 Jul
11:43 p.m.
On 7/11/05, Louis Florit <florit at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, I pulled out my 64-sx out of the box it's been
stored with in
anticipation of getting my JiffyDos upgrade installed into it. To my
dismay, when I plugged it all in and powered it on, the keyboard
wouldn't work properly. Any of the keys have to be pressed multiple
times (3 to 10 times) in order to get the character to show up on
screen.
Any suggested remedies? I'm wondering if the keyboard contacts are
just a little dirty and need a little cleaning, but I wanted to check
with the gurus before prying it apart.
Unfortunately, the SX-64 keyboard is made entirely differently than
PET and C-64 keyboards... the SX keyboard is layers of mylar with
printed traces. The traces have been known to oxidize over time,
rendering the keyboard inert. You can try to be as careful as you
can, but I have seen plenty of dead keyboards from attempts to repair,
and have never seen a successfully repaired keyboard. If you manage
to work out a successful technique, please share it with us. I myself
have two SX-64s, two good keyboards and two dead keyboards (neither by
my hand).
One possible solution would be to wire up an appropriate switch matrix
to a the correct DB25 pinout and completely replace the native SX-64
keyboard. It would be functional, but not as portable. I don't want
to say there's zero chance of repairing the original keyboard, but it
would be an accomplishment to do so.
-ethan
12 Jul
12 Jul
12:53 a.m.
On 7/11/05, Louis Florit <florit at gmail.com> wrote:
Bletch!!!
Hi, I pulled out my 64-sx out of the box it's
been stored with in
anticipation of getting my JiffyDos upgrade installed into it. To my
dismay, when I plugged it all in and powered it on, the keyboard
wouldn't work properly. Any of the keys have to be pressed multiple
times (3 to 10 times) in order to get the character to show up on
screen.
Any suggested remedies? I'm wondering if the keyboard contacts are
just a little dirty and need a little cleaning, but I wanted to check
with the gurus before prying it apart.
Unfortunately, the SX-64 keyboard is made entirely differently than
PET and C-64 keyboards... the SX keyboard is layers of mylar with printed traces. The traces have been known to oxidize
over time,
rendering the keyboard inert. You can try to be as careful as you
can, but I have seen plenty of dead keyboards from attempts to repair,
and have never seen a successfully repaired keyboard. If you manage
to work out a successful technique, please share it with us. I myself
have two SX-64s, two good keyboards and two dead keyboards (neither by
my hand).
Sounds like the infernal DEC LK201... I've never managed to repair one of
those either.
If it's screwed together, or if you can use screws to reasssemble it
after cutting off the heat-stakes (the IBM PC/AT 101-key keyboard is built
this way), then take it apart, clean the contact layers with propan-2-ol.
and pray :-). Most of these keybaords are heat-staked and you can't use
screws (noting to tap into), so you are pretty much stuck.
One possible solution would be to wire up an appropriate switch matrix
to a the correct DB25 pinout and completely replace the native SX-64
keyboard. It would be functional, but not as portable. I don't want
How similar is the matrix to the C64 keyboard?
to say there's zero chance of repairing the
original keyboard, but it
would be an accomplishment to do so.
-ethan
-tony
2:30 a.m.
OK... sorry about the premature ejection - keyboard shortcuts and fat
fingers don't work well together.
On 7/11/05, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Sounds like the infernal DEC LK201... I've never
managed to repair one of
those either.
I haven't seen the inside of an LK201, but they do sound similar.
If it's screwed together, or if you can use screws
to reasssemble it
after cutting off the heat-stakes (the IBM PC/AT 101-key keyboard is built
this way), then take it apart, clean the contact layers with propan-2-ol.
and pray :-). Most of these keybaords are heat-staked and you can't use
screws (noting to tap into), so you are pretty much stuck.
I don't think that's a problem in the case of an SX-64. The mylar layers are
either screwed down to the face, or held in place by plastic pegs molded into
the backside *IIRC*.
I've seen the results of conductive paint, BTW - also not pretty.
How similar is the matrix to the C64 keyboard?
Given that AFAIK, that part of the ROMs are identical, I'd give it
even money that the matrices are compatible (the SX-64 _might_ have
fewer keys; can't remember). One
thought I had in the past was to turn a dead C-64 shell into an SX-64
keyboard shell - make a DB-25 to single-inline post connector cable,
then hook the C-64 keyboard harness to that - and voila - nearly
instant external keyboard. I did look at the schematics on funet, but
I didn't find any SX-64 pages with an obvious key matrix. Shouldn't
be hard to reverse-engineer one given an SX-64 in front of you, and
the C-64 and/or SX-64 schematics showing what I/O pins are attached to
the keyboard matrix.
I have not tried this, but I have every expectation of it working.
-ethan
3:45 a.m.
OK... sorry about the premature ejection - keyboard
shortcuts and fat
fingers don't work well together.
Don't worry, every man has that at some point. Oh, wait ...
;)
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Are you ready for de BIG FUN?? Yeah! -- Headmaster Kuno, "Ranma 1/2" -------
4:02 a.m.
hahahaha, hahahahaha. hahahahaha. hahahaha. funnnny. damn, you guys are a
barrell of laughs. Thanks, Cameron, for the laugh. Apaprently you can't
fix a C64SX keyboard either, BTW... from what you say. ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com>
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:45:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Commodore 64-sx Keyboard getting stuck?
OK... sorry
about the premature ejection - keyboard shortcuts and fat
fingers don't work well together.
Don't worry, every man has that at some point. Oh, wait ...
;)
--
---------------------------------- personal:
http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA *
ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Are you ready for de BIG FUN?? Yeah! -- Headmaster Kuno, "Ranma 1/2"
-------
12:41 a.m.
Hi, I pulled out my 64-sx out of the box it's been stored with in
anticipation of getting my JiffyDos upgrade installed into it. To my
dismay, when I plugged it all in and powered it on, the keyboard
wouldn't work properly. Any of the keys have to be pressed multiple
times (3 to 10 times) in order to get the character to show up on
screen.
Any suggested remedies? I'm wondering if the keyboard contacts are
just a little dirty and need a little cleaning, but I wanted to check
with the gurus before prying it apart.
I've never seen a 64-SX, but if it's like other Commodore keyboards of
the time, it uses conmductive plastic pads on the key stems pressing
against pads on the PCB.
You don't need to pull the keycaps, the way into it is from the underside.
Take it out of the case, then desolder thw wires to the shift-lock switch
and undo all the screws on the PCB. That then comes off. Clean the PCB
with propan-2-ol as usual. It's best to avoid cleaning the conductive
plasic parts unless you have to, so what I'd do is clean the PCB, put it
hack together (don't bother to resolder the shift-lock wires at this
stage), try it, and if it's still not right take the PCB off again and
clean the conductive plastic too.
-tony
2:34 a.m.
New subject: PET keyboard hacking (was Re: Commodore 64-sx Keyboard getting stuck?)
On 7/11/05, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
(don't bother to resolder the shift-lock wires at this stage)
Excellent advice - I melted my PET's capslock switch as a teenager
while replacing the PCB at the back of the keyboard (my brothers and I
wore out the A, 4 and 6 keys playing the ML version of Space Invaders
for hours and hours on end - the gold was _visually_ missing from just
the middle of those three keys). I still have that keyboard with the
defective caps lock. :-/
At least I took the opportunity to snarf the old keyboard harness and
build a "wedge" between the new keyboard and the motherboard - I ran 4
lines off the board to an external box with 3 real arcade buttons ($9
each in 1980!) that paralleled the normal A and 4 and 6, so we could
bang away all night and not ruin the _new_ keyboard.
-ethan
13 Jul
13 Jul
6:36 a.m.
Louis,
I have had similar problems with my SX-64 in the past as well. What it
turned out to be for me was some loose connetions inside the computer. Once
I open it up and reseat all socketed chips and any edge connectors with the
boards inside everything worked fine again. Never had a keyboard go bad on
me yet (knock wood), this has always fixed it up right away for me.
Hope this helps,
Greg Manuel
-----Original Message-----
From: Louis Florit [mailto:florit at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 6:10 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Commodore 64-sx Keyboard getting stuck?
Hi, I pulled out my 64-sx out of the box it's been stored with in
anticipation of getting my JiffyDos upgrade installed into it. To my
dismay, when I plugged it all in and powered it on, the keyboard
wouldn't work properly. Any of the keys have to be pressed multiple
times (3 to 10 times) in order to get the character to show up on
screen.
Any suggested remedies? I'm wondering if the keyboard contacts are
just a little dirty and need a little cleaning, but I wanted to check
with the gurus before prying it apart.
Thanks,
Louis
--
Louis Florit
AIM: lflorit MSN:louis_florit at hotmail.com Y!: indygolunaria
==> See forgotten passwords befind **** asterisks: www.SeePassword.com
7124
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8 comments
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
computer＠officereach.net -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
florit＠gmail.com -
gmanuel＠gmconsulting.net -
spectre＠floodgap.com