22 Apr
2001
22 Apr
'01
10:18 a.m.
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the
sense that no
10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've
never seen one that does).
Neither have I. Also Eithernet AKA 802.x was never that slow. The
3 mb/s stuff I'd always called ARCNET.
There were no single-chip ethernet controllers, if
that's what you're
asking. The ethernet circuitry for the classic PERQ (which was generally
10Mbps, but early enough that single-chip controllers didn't really
exist) is a 2910 sequencer, some microcode PROMs, some 9403 FIFOs, and a
lot of TTL glue logic (and some comparator-type parts for the interface
to the AUI connector). It takes up about 1/3rd of the EIO board.
Correct, there wasn't current LSI that was fast enough in the beginning.
The would change fairly quickly by 1984-85ish.
Allison
22 Apr
22 Apr
10:54 a.m.
On Sun, 22 Apr 2001, ajp166 wrote:
No, ARCNET is a different beast. The original implementation of Ethernet
at Xerox PARC on the Altos systems ran at 3Mbps. ACM has a webified
version of the 1976 paper "Ethernet: Distributed Packet Switching for
Local Computer Networks" by Robert M. Metcalf and David R. Boggs.
http://www.acm.org/classics/apr96/
Under section 4 of the paper, it is explained that 3Mbps was used because
of the nature of their minicomputers. Some other sources around the web
say that the first implementation done at PARC was done in 1973. My guess
is that around that time, most minicomputers wouldn't be able to deal very
well with a firehose of data streaming in at 10Mbps.
The IEEE 802.3 standard didn't come about until a number of years later.
-brian.
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
AFAIK it is
not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no
10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've
never seen one that does).
Neither have I. Also Eithernet AKA 802.x was never that slow. The
3 mb/s stuff I'd always called ARCNET. 
11:57 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 727 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010422/decf344a/at…
6:32 p.m.
ajp166 skrev:
From: Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
>AFAIK it is not backwards-compatible, at least in the sense that no
>10Mbps ethernet controller supports the 3Mbps data rate (at least, I've
>never seen one that does).
Neither have I. Also Eithernet AKA 802.x was never
that slow. The
3 mb/s stuff I'd always called ARCNET.
Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without relation to Ethernet.
Ain't that so?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU
yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and
control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute,
I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes,
and still continue to function as a computer ;)
iVan
23 Apr
23 Apr
5:59 a.m.
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without
relation to Ethernet.
Ain't that so?
Yes. ARCnet is another protocol, entirely. It is a token-passing protocol,
with either a star topology (a simple "hub" is four BNC connectors connected
together with maybe a resistor per connector thrown in. More machines than
that and you have to use an active hub), or, later, an RS-485-based twisted
pair interconnection scheme.
I don't recall the bitrate, but it's much less than 10Mb.
I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular
for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX
support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
7:09 a.m.
Ethan,
Would you be willing to part with the ARCnet card for the Amiga 500?
Bob Mason
classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org wrote:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
--
Bob Mason
2x Amiga 500's, GVP A530 (40mhz 68030/68882, 8meg Fast, SCSI), 1.3/3.1, 2meg Chip,
full ECS chipset, EZ135, 1084S, big harddrives, 2.2xCD
Gateway Performance 500 Piece 'o Crap, 'ME, 128meg, 20Gig, flatbed.
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at
http://webmail.netscape.com/
Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without
relation to Ethernet.
Ain't that so?
Yes. ARCnet is another protocol, entirely. ?It is a token-passing protocol,
with either a star topology (a simple "hub" is four BNC connectors connected
together with maybe a resistor per connector thrown in. ?More machines than
that and you have to use an active hub), or, later, an RS-485-based twisted
pair interconnection scheme.
I don't recall the bitrate, but it's much less than 10Mb.
I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. ?It was popular
for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX
support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
7:47 a.m.
New subject: Available
I currently have a TRS-80 Model 2000 available. It is a
dual-floppy model with 512k RAM and keyboard. I can also provide the OS
disk for it. For those not familiar with this machine, it is powered by
an 80186 and has dual 720k DSQD 5-1/4" floppy drives. When equipped
with it's hi-res graphics board, it will do 640 x 400 in either mono or
8 colors. This machine is fully functional. Email with offers if
interested.
Jeff
10:40 a.m.
I have a PureData Arcnet hub that I picked up in a thrift. It has 8BNC
connectors and 2 RJ11's labelled Arclink. It's dated Aug/90.
It came with a fuse missing and I've never had the occasion or motivation to
check it out, nor the Arcnet NICs for that matter.
larry
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)look.ca
Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without
relation to Ethernet.
Ain't that so?
Yes. ARCnet is another protocol, entirely. It is a token-passing protocol, with
either a star topology (a simple "hub" is four BNC connectors connected
together
with maybe a resistor per connector thrown in. More machines than that and you
have to use an active hub), or, later, an RS-485-based twisted pair
interconnection scheme.
I don't recall the bitrate, but it's much less than 10Mb.
I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular
for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX
support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
2:16 p.m.
I have a PureData Arcnet hub that I picked up in a
thrift. It has 8BNC
connectors and 2 RJ11's labelled Arclink. It's dated Aug/90.
It came with a fuse missing and I've never had the occasion or motivation to
check it out, nor the Arcnet NICs for that matter.
What should I look for on a network card that would mark it as ARCNET
instead of just coax something else?
3:12 p.m.
Rumor has it that Mike Ford may have mentioned these words:
At least in the PeeCee world, every arcnet card I've ever seen had an 8-up
DIP switch to set the Arcnet address - IIRC you can only have 256 arcnet
cards on a network.
HTH,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
> I have a PureData Arcnet hub that I picked up in a
thrift. It has 8BNC
>connectors and 2 RJ11's labelled Arclink. It's dated Aug/90.
> It came with a fuse missing and I've never had the occasion or
motivation
to
check it out,
nor the Arcnet NICs for that matter.
What should I look for on a network card that would mark it as ARCNET
instead of just coax something else? 
8:44 p.m.
On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Roger Merchberger wrote:
Rumor has it that Mike Ford may have mentioned these
words:
At least in the PeeCee world, every arcnet card I've ever seen had an 8-up
DIP switch to set the Arcnet address - IIRC you can only have 256 arcnet
cards on a network.
Also, virtually every one that I have seen carries a flat epoxy coated
1x2" circuit package with 20-pins along one of the long edges.
- don
> I have a PureData Arcnet hub that I picked up
in a thrift. It has 8BNC
>connectors and 2 RJ11's labelled Arclink. It's dated Aug/90.
> It came with a fuse missing and I've never had the occasion or
motivation
to
check it
out, nor the Arcnet NICs for that matter.
What should I look for on a network card that would mark it as ARCNET
instead of just coax something else? HTH,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
24 Apr
24 Apr
3:04 a.m.
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> Arcnet is AFAIK 2 Mb and another protocol without relation to Ethernet.
> Ain't that so?
Yes. ARCnet is another protocol, entirely. It is a
token-passing protocol,
with either a star topology (a simple "hub" is four BNC connectors connected
together with maybe a resistor per connector thrown in. More machines than
that and you have to use an active hub), or, later, an RS-485-based twisted
pair interconnection scheme.
AFAIK, it's possible to use it an bus sense as well, but that depends on the
chipset used, since they are specced for different resistance or something
like that.
I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga
500. It was popular
for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX
support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up.
Silly old Commodore also decided that it were to be the official Amiga network
standard. Mind you, it was cheaper, but quite useless in an Ethernet world.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
"Jag ?r 35 ?r och citerar planetens och v?rldshistoriens b?sta anime hur
mycket jag vill, bl?jbarn."
?ke Rosenius
3:35 a.m.
At 01:04 PM 4/24/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote:
I don't remember that CBM tried to enforce a standard.
I doubt it would've been pushed by CBM/Amiga engineers who
were daily using VAXes and Suns.
I may still have an ARCnet A2000 card somewhere. I've begun
to clean out the basement troves in preparation for a series
of eBay auctions. I'll be unloading some rare items like
t-shirts from the first through the 1993 developer conferences,
and the t-shirt from the first "Amiga wake" held at Dale Luck's
house in 1987 when they closed the Los Gatos office.
I also found a Hydra rev 1.0 Ethernet card for the A2000.
I've always thought it was unusual because it as two BNC
as well as an AUI port. Can anyone else remember Ethernet
cards with two BNC like this? Were 10base2 "T" connectors rare?
I believe Hydra was a UK company, if that matters.
- John
I have some
ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular
for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX
support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up.
Silly old Commodore also decided that it were to be the official Amiga network
standard. Mind you, it was cheaper, but quite useless in an Ethernet world.
6:10 a.m.
John Foust skrev:
At 01:04 PM 4/24/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote:
>>I have some ARCnet cards for PC and one for the Amiga 500. It was popular
>>for a while for early LAN parties because when DOOM came out, there was IPX
>>support and ARCnet cards were cheap and easy to set up.
>
>Silly old Commodore also decided that it were to be the official Amiga
>network standard. Mind you, it was cheaper, but quite useless in an Ethernet
>world.
I don't remember that CBM tried to enforce a
standard.
I doubt it would've been pushed by CBM/Amiga engineers who
were daily using VAXes and Suns.
I remember reading that when the cards were first introduced at some fair. I'd
have a whole lot of reading ahead of me before I'd find that reference again,
though.
I may still have an ARCnet A2000 card somewhere.
I've begun
to clean out the basement troves in preparation for a series
of eBay auctions. I'll be unloading some rare items like
t-shirts from the first through the 1993 developer conferences,
and the t-shirt from the first "Amiga wake" held at Dale Luck's
house in 1987 when they closed the Los Gatos office.
Los Gatos?
I also found a Hydra rev 1.0 Ethernet card for the
A2000.
I've always thought it was unusual because it as two BNC
as well as an AUI port. Can anyone else remember Ethernet
cards with two BNC like this? Were 10base2 "T" connectors rare?
I believe Hydra was a UK company, if that matters.
I wonder if Hydra aren't still in business, they were awfully long-lived.
I suppose that the two connectors were supposed to be a novel idea, and
doesn't it seem just a little bit neater with two cables coming into their
designated connectors rather than a T piece with a lot of cable getting in the
way? It really could encourage broken networks, though, if someone ever needed
to move the computer. Besides, doesn't 10Base2 really dislike having any kind
of "drop" connections? I seem to recall that any length of cabling between the
NIC and the 10Base2 bus is seen as a bad idea.
OTOH, some Mac NICs (Farallons?) had two 10BaseT connectors, so that one could
make a daisy-chained TP network. Would be fun to have for showing-off
purposes.
BTW, the old Hydra "Amiganet" NIC really stinks, don't know if the one
simply
called Hydra is any better.
BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a bell? Someone in the usergroup brought
a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind of NIC. It
dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by small" or
something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky relay. The D9
is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device and chained to hte
next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR the word RING
screened onto the PCB.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
We have support for the PMAGC-B's on pmax right? That is a PixelVision based
card right? I see Bt 463, that chip looks bigger than the 21164! Just looking
at it makes me want to write an Xserver!
Chris Tribo, NetBSD/pmax
6:31 a.m.
New subject: Amiga Ethernet 9pin network card
BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a bell?
Someone in the usergroup brought
a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind of NIC. It
dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by small" or
something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky relay. The D9
is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device and chained to hte
next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR the word RING
screened onto the PCB.
Sounds like standard token-ring to me.
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10
Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2
Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour"
8:58 a.m.
New subject: Amiga Ethernet 9pin network card
Bill Pechter skrev:
> BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a
bell? Someone in the usergroup
> brought a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind
> of NIC. It dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by
> small" or something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky
> relay. The D9 is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device
> and chained to hte next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR
> the word RING screened onto the PCB.
Sounds like standard token-ring to me.
I've found the possibility of an Amiga TR NIC so impossible that I never
considered that. Are you certain?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant.
Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS
10:14 a.m.
New subject: Amiga Ethernet 9pin network card
Bill Pechter skrev:
Well, they used DB9 connectors, used relays into the MAU (the token-ring
hub equivalent), the word Ring on the PCB. Sounds possible.
A lot of cable tv shops used IBM S34/S36/S38's for billing and records.
They also used Amiga's for Video slide generation for their add and
notices chanels.
So I figured they may have had Token-Ring boards for the Amiga.
--Bill
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10
Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2
Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour"
> BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink"
ring a bell? Someone in the usergroup
> brought a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind
> of NIC. It dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by
> small" or something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky
> relay. The D9 is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device
> and chained to hte next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR
> the word RING screened onto the PCB.
Sounds like standard token-ring to me.
I've found the possibility of an Amiga TR NIC so impossible that I never
considered that. Are you certain?
7:01 a.m.
At 04:10 PM 4/24/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote:
Yes, that's where Amiga Corp. was, in Silicon Valley.
I'm one of the guys who stole the big "Amiga" sign from the
front of the building when they closed. It went to Paul Montgomery's
garage, and from there went to Topeka, and I think it must be
in Austin by now.
and the t-shirt
from the first "Amiga wake" held at Dale Luck's
house in 1987 when they closed the Los Gatos office.
Los Gatos? BTW, the old Hydra "Amiganet" NIC really
stinks, don't know if the one simply
called Hydra is any better.
Yes, that's the card I found. There must've been a reason
it wasn't in use inside an A2000. :-)
BTW2: Does the name "Amigalink" ring a bell?
Someone in the usergroup brought
a full-length Zorro card with a D9 connector, apparently some kind of NIC. It
dates from 1988 and I think it's copyrighted to "Designs by small" or
something like that. The card features amongst others a clicky relay. The D9
is supposedly plugged into some kind of transceiver device and chained to hte
next card. I think it's some kind of ring topology, ISTR the word RING
screened onto the PCB.
I'd guess that was Dave Small, the same guy who did the Atari
and Amiga versions of the "Magic Sac" emulators of the Macintosh.
- John
8:54 a.m.
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text
Size: 1190 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20010424/c3c4d128/at…
12:19 p.m.
Tony Duell skrev:
> I also found a Hydra rev 1.0 Ethernet card for the
A2000.
> I've always thought it was unusual because it as two BNC
> as well as an AUI port. Can anyone else remember Ethernet
> cards with two BNC like this? Were 10base2 "T" connectors rare?
> I believe Hydra was a UK company, if that matters.
The Inmos B407 ethernet TRAM is a bit like that.
It's got 2 SMB
connectors and a couple of cables that plug into them and have BNCs on
the other end.
I don't know what a TRAM is, but now that I think of it, I've got an Apple
AAUI transceiver which works in this fashion as well as an ancient one from
Bull. Had it plugged into a pocket 10BaseT hub, and the transceiver actually
dwarfed the hub. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
There is also a high quality Fortran from DEC for our engineers, and of course
the whole C and LISP programming environments for CS students and other
software developers, plus a set of powerful text manipulation utilities like
sed, grep, awk, lex, and yacc, whose functions should be obvious from their
names.
Frank da Cruz & Christine Gianone - "THE DECSYSTEM-20 AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY
(1977-1988)"
8471
days inactive
8473
days old
19 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
ajp166＠bellatlantic.net -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bdc＠world.std.com -
donm＠cts.com -
ethan_dicks＠yahoo.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
knightstalkerbob＠netscape.net -
lgwalker＠look.ca -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
optimus＠canit.se -
pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org -
zmerch＠30below.com