I personally feel the 10 year "rule" is useful as a guide, however, I also consider that there are several machines that rightly qualify as "Classic Computers" that are less than 10 years old. There is a particular "grey" area in that a particular machine might span the period. I suppose logically, we should look at when a particular box was FIRST made. I have 2 Vax 6000's here (which I propose to the list are a "Classic" regardless of age") one is 89 manufacture and therefore (just) 10 years old. The other is a 1990 build. Microvaxen have been around for a fair while now, but I am given to understand they are still orderable, new, from Digital. IMHO, I would also class ANY Microvax as a "Classic" regardless of age. In fairness to all, it's unlikely that we want to see extensive discussions of the vagaries of Pentium II's discussed here (for some years at least!) but I am confident that the 10 year rule is meant to guide us, not shackle us to a time frame. i.e. IF you have a machine that is less than that age, or you wish to discuss it on the list, and IF you consider it to be a classic in it's own right, then I suggest it be put to the list. IF the consensus of list members is that it should be classed as a classic, then so be it. Just my 2c worth. Your opinions and/or mileage may vary. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Room Internet Cafe Port Pirie South Australia. netcafe(a)pirie.mtx.net.au