-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at
classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at
classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Zane H. Healy
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 6:34 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Nazi System 360/370 book...
At 2:34 PM -0400 6/15/11, Evan Koblentz wrote:
Most of
the time I spend time trying to understand why an otherwise
intelligent person could come to such unsupported conclusions about
some things. It's as if their logical thinking breaks down, and is no
longer around when faith steps into the room.
That's exactly how I feel about "God". I cannot grasp why otherwise
intelligent, rational people -- especially techies -- suspend their
common sense to believe in an invisible man in the sky.
I welcome a debate with anyone here who claims that believing in
god(s) is somehow "different".
I can't grasp how otherwise intelligent, rational people, especially techies,
don't believe in God. The alternative is illogical, as we understand better
than most, just how complex things really are.
That's an importantly profound observation about the question at hand. Considering
the idea of 'least hypothesis', the idea of a consciousness behind the nature of
the Universe - i.e. God - seems to be far more straightforward than the mass of
conflicting hypotheses to explain the origin of the Universe and the (known) life forms
within it. Taken one by one, and within constraints, many of those hypotheses do make
sense - for instance, the idea of natural selection. That makes sense as the dynamics of
a working system. But the origin of the system it assumes as its basis is not well
explained by that same hypothesis, nor are apparently 'disruptive' events within
it, e.g. the rise of human-order intelligence (or even the existence of higher-order
life).
Unfortunately, 'belief in God' is too often tied to 'belief' in a lot of
other stuff, much of which seems to be contrived to ensure that those who work in the
business of Organized Religion don't miss any meals. That tends to give it a bad
name, especially among thinking people.
I will argue there's a difference between 'unsupported conclusions' and
'faith.' The latter is more similar to selection of a set of axioms. Axioms are
exempt from proof (although showing one is invalid is good for nuking anything premised
thereupon), but should be atomic in nature to be useful in logical discourse. Once you
show a proof for an article of faith, it enters into the realm of 'known facts.'
Unsupported conclusions seem disjoint from the realm of 'known facts' and even
from that of 'faith,' assumed to be self-evident without a supporting framework of
axioms, hypothesis and logical process. (See, social conservatives.)
Given the nature of this discussion, I'm going to the effort to make the following
disclaimer: the above is my personal opinion and does not represent the official or casual
opinion of my employer. -- Ian