21 Apr
2002
21 Apr
'02
2:53 a.m.
On Apr 21, 2:34, Chad Fernandez wrote:
I'm finally going to work on hooking up a home
network, so I guess I
need a hub. What should I look for? I don't know much about networks
yet. I have potentially 7 computers that I'd like to have connected.
It'll need to be 10Base-T, but 100base-T may be involved too. I thought
I'd look for something on Ebay, hopefully, not too expensive. Maybe
something commercial grade, However. I thought about something from IBM
or 3Com, any suggestions??
What do you mean by "commercial grade"? The difference between upmarket
devices and small SOHO devices is mostly that the ones used in larger
commercial networks are managed devices. That means you can configure them
remotely (with SNMP or a web interface), get statistics from them, etc.
You really want a switch rather than a hub. Not many people are making
hubs (repeaters) these days, even at the low end of the market. A switch
will ultimately give better throughput, especially in a peer-to-peer
network.
Go for autosensing 10/100baseT. If you're going to spend any amount of
money, you want to protect your investment by including 100baseT capability
even if you don't need it right now.
If you see a decent modern 3Com hub or switch, that's fine but most of the
second-hand stuff I've seen is 10baseT only. I wouldn't bother looking for
IBM. Baystack, 3Com, HP, Cisco are the ones you're likely to see. And
Netgear, which is almost entirely unmanaged kit, but quite good quality.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
21 Apr
21 Apr
4:56 a.m.
Go for autosensing 10/100baseT. If you're going to
spend any amount of
money, you want to protect your investment by including 100baseT capability
even if you don't need it right now.
If you see a decent modern 3Com hub or switch, that's fine but most of the
second-hand stuff I've seen is 10baseT only. I wouldn't bother looking for
IBM. Baystack, 3Com, HP, Cisco are the ones you're likely to see. And
Netgear, which is almost entirely unmanaged kit, but quite good quality.
I use a Netgear DS108 dual-speed, 8port hub and really like
it. It's small and does it's job well. My only complaint with it is
that it doesn't pick up on some 10baseT cards, such as an Asente PDS
NIC that is in my Color Classic. My other Mac's, NeXTs, and various
other machines work fine with it though.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
6:20 a.m.
I thought I had a similar problem with my Powermac, then though it was the
AUI ethernet transciever - Nope (even though my cable tester said I had a
good crimp with proper 1-1/2-2/3-3/etc connection) - it was a weak
connection and once I cut and re-ended the drop for the PowerMac life came
into the machine on the network and once "Dave" was installed it started
chatting with all of it's Windows peers and the NT server, as well as my
printers. The nice thing is that even though the transciever is 10baseT,
data flows through it fast, thanks to the 2 8 port Skylink switches. When I
had an autoswitch IBM 10/100 hub, the 10baseT equipment dragged it's ass,
now I see very little difference in the 10baseT and 100baseT devices.
I'm perfectly able to write CD's through the network on my PII-300 machine
with a 16x writer, from even my old Dell 4066/XE 486DX2-66 based server
(used for a while as a proxy server). Even SCSI DAT tape goes well, almost
as fast as if the tape was diectly on the SCSI chain of that machine it's
drawing files from.
I've given away old SMC, IBM and other 10baseT hubs to experimenters just to
get them out of my way after I got the 10/100 switches, and I won't install
anything less than that as a customer replacement. When a 16 port switch is
$75 new retail, why buy a used 10baseT hub for $10 or $15? Even if a machine
HAS to go onto 10base2 coax, there are ways to convert with baluns or
transcievers - or even uplink an old coupl-of-port hub with BNC to that
particular segment. My Netserver has 2 10/100 nics, I had a 10base2 coax
segment on an old hub from card 2, my 10/100 switches and all the UTP
connected equipment on card 1. Worked well until I found a replacement MCA
NIC (olicom) for my old IBM 9595 server (now out of service).
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige
=> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 8:56 AM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Network Hub selection help needed
=>
=>
=> >Go for autosensing 10/100baseT. If you're going to spend any amount of
=> >money, you want to protect your investment by including
=> 100baseT capability
=> >even if you don't need it right now.
=> >
=> >If you see a decent modern 3Com hub or switch, that's fine but
=> most of the
=> >second-hand stuff I've seen is 10baseT only. I wouldn't bother
=> looking for
=> >IBM. Baystack, 3Com, HP, Cisco are the ones you're likely to see. And
=> >Netgear, which is almost entirely unmanaged kit, but quite good quality.
=>
=> I use a Netgear DS108 dual-speed, 8port hub and really like
=> it. It's small and does it's job well. My only complaint with it is
=> that it doesn't pick up on some 10baseT cards, such as an Asente PDS
=> NIC that is in my Color Classic. My other Mac's, NeXTs, and various
=> other machines work fine with it though.
=>
=> Jeff
=> --
=> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
=> http://www.cchaven.com
=> http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
=>
=>
8:03 a.m.
Can I ask for a Classiccmp angle? I have a DEC DELNI sitting
around, and some AUI/bT transcievers. Can this be used in a
mixed Linux/VMS/MSwin environment? I had heard that DELNI's
were somewhet limited. I'm aware that modern networking is
very affordable and small, but its a classiccmp thing I'm talking
about here.
Yes, conversely, If I had b2/bT transcievers (or would these be Baluns)
and a modern Hub (or Switch), could that be used to network
VAX'es together?
John A.
9:08 a.m.
Just get yourself a long piece of Thicknet. The trick is installing
the Vampire Taps...
-Lawrence LeMay
Can I ask for a Classiccmp angle? I have a DEC DELNI
sitting
around, and some AUI/bT transcievers. Can this be used in a
mixed Linux/VMS/MSwin environment? I had heard that DELNI's
were somewhet limited. I'm aware that modern networking is
very affordable and small, but its a classiccmp thing I'm talking
about here.
Yes, conversely, If I had b2/bT transcievers (or would these be Baluns)
and a modern Hub (or Switch), could that be used to network
VAX'es together?
John A.
8:16 a.m.
I hope to start hooking up a mix of hardware very soon and have over the
last week picked up a Linksys Fast Ethernet 5-Port Workgroup Hub model
FEHUB05W ($2.92), a Linksys EtherFast cable/DSL Router model BEFSR41
($20), and a Katron 10BASE-T Ethernet hub 8 Plus model Hub/8 ($10) and
now have tofigure which to use?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Blakeman" <rhb57(a)vol.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: Network Hub selection help needed
I thought I had a similar problem with my Powermac,
then though it was
the
AUI ethernet transciever - Nope (even though my cable
tester said I
had a
good crimp with proper 1-1/2-2/3-3/etc connection) -
it was a weak
connection and once I cut and re-ended the drop for the PowerMac life
came
into the machine on the network and once
"Dave" was installed it
started
chatting with all of it's Windows peers and the NT
server, as well as
my
printers. The nice thing is that even though the
transciever is
10baseT,
data flows through it fast, thanks to the 2 8 port
Skylink switches.
When I
had an autoswitch IBM 10/100 hub, the 10baseT
equipment dragged it's
ass,
now I see very little difference in the 10baseT and
100baseT devices.
I'm perfectly able to write CD's through the network on my PII-300
machine
with a 16x writer, from even my old Dell 4066/XE
486DX2-66 based
server
(used for a while as a proxy server). Even SCSI DAT
tape goes well,
almost
as fast as if the tape was diectly on the SCSI chain
of that machine
it's
drawing files from.
I've given away old SMC, IBM and other 10baseT hubs to experimenters
just to
get them out of my way after I got the 10/100
switches, and I won't
install
anything less than that as a customer replacement.
When a 16 port
switch is
$75 new retail, why buy a used 10baseT hub for $10 or
$15? Even if a
machine
HAS to go onto 10base2 coax, there are ways to convert
with baluns or
transcievers - or even uplink an old coupl-of-port hub with BNC to
that
particular segment. My Netserver has 2 10/100 nics, I
had a 10base2
coax
segment on an old hub from card 2, my 10/100 switches
and all the UTP
connected equipment on card 1. Worked well until I found a replacement
MCA
NIC (olicom) for my old IBM 9595 server (now out of
service).
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Jeff Hellige
=> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 8:56 AM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Network Hub selection help needed
=>
=>
=> >Go for autosensing 10/100baseT. If you're going to spend any
amount
of
=> >money, you want to protect your investment
by including
=> 100baseT capability
=> >even if you don't need it right now.
=> >
=> >If you see a decent modern 3Com hub or switch, that's fine but
=> most of the
=> >second-hand stuff I've seen is 10baseT only. I wouldn't bother
=> looking for
=> >IBM. Baystack, 3Com, HP, Cisco are the ones you're likely to see.
And
=> >Netgear, which is almost entirely unmanaged
kit, but quite good
quality.
=>
=> I use a Netgear DS108 dual-speed, 8port hub and really like
=> it. It's small and does it's job well. My only complaint with it
is
=> that it doesn't pick up on some 10baseT
cards, such as an Asente
PDS
=> NIC that is in my Color Classic. My other
Mac's, NeXTs, and
various
=> other machines work fine with it though.
=>
=> Jeff
=> --
=> Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
=> http://www.cchaven.com
=>
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
=>
=>
5:09 a.m.
I'd have to agree with Pete. It just doesn't make sense to get and use a
networking device that can potentially cripple your activities later on.
That's why I have an RP114 router from NetGear with 4 switched 10/100
duplex ports in it. The only hubs I have are for Token Ring and I am
considering replacing them as well. I have a Bay Networks BayStack 504 24
port Token Ring hub with Fiber M.D.A., D.C.M. and N.M.M. - making it almost
as good as a managed switch. ...And, because I am a paranoid S.O.B., I have
a 3Com LinkBuilder FMS TR 12 (3C510510)- 12 port Active Token Ring hub as
backup. Needless to say, it may be a _little_ overkill for a 3 machine
network environment, but hey, I can transfer gigs of data all day safely. =)
-John
At 07:53 AM 4/21/02, you wrote:
On Apr 21, 2:34, Chad Fernandez wrote:
----------------------------------------
Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst
and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies
http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html
---------------------------------------
I'm finally going to work on hooking up a
home network, so I guess I
need a hub. What should I look for? I don't know much about networks
yet. I have potentially 7 computers that I'd like to have connected.
It'll need to be 10Base-T, but 100base-T may be involved too. I thought
I'd look for something on Ebay, hopefully, not too expensive. Maybe
something commercial grade, However. I thought about something from IBM
or 3Com, any suggestions??
What do you mean by "commercial grade"? The difference between upmarket
devices and small SOHO devices is mostly that the ones used in larger
commercial networks are managed devices. That means you can configure them
remotely (with SNMP or a web interface), get statistics from them, etc.
You really want a switch rather than a hub. Not many people are making
hubs (repeaters) these days, even at the low end of the market. A switch
will ultimately give better throughput, especially in a peer-to-peer
network.
Go for autosensing 10/100baseT. If you're going to spend any amount of
money, you want to protect your investment by including 100baseT capability
even if you don't need it right now.
If you see a decent modern 3Com hub or switch, that's fine but most of the
second-hand stuff I've seen is 10baseT only. I wouldn't bother looking for
IBM. Baystack, 3Com, HP, Cisco are the ones you're likely to see. And
Netgear, which is almost entirely unmanaged kit, but quite good quality.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York 
8:21 p.m.
Pete Turnbull wrote:
What do you mean by "commercial grade"? The
difference between upmarket
devices and small SOHO devices is mostly that the ones used in larger
commercial networks are managed devices. That means you can configure them
remotely (with SNMP or a web interface), get statistics from them, etc.
By commercial grade I just meant that I wanted to avoid the home grade
stuff that may not have features, or only a few connections. The type
of thing that Best Buy, Staples, or another cunsumer oriented store may
carry for your average Windows user.
You really want a switch rather than a hub. Not many people are making
hubs (repeaters) these days, even at the low end of the market. A switch
will ultimately give better throughput, especially in a peer-to-peer
network.
Ok, I didn't know that until I started reading all these replies..... a
switch is what I'll get :-)
Go for autosensing 10/100baseT. If you're going to spend any amount of
money, you want to protect your investment by including 100baseT capability
even if you don't need it right now.
I'll probably end up with two of the computers using 100base-T.
If you see a decent modern 3Com hub or switch, that's fine but most of the
second-hand stuff I've seen is 10baseT only. I wouldn't bother looking for
IBM. Baystack, 3Com, HP, Cisco are the ones you're likely to see. And
Netgear, which is almost entirely unmanaged kit, but quite good quality.
What's the difference between managed and unmanaged?
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
9:12 p.m.
On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Chad Fernandez wrote:
By commercial grade I just meant that I wanted to
avoid the home grade
stuff that may not have features, or only a few connections. The type
of thing that Best Buy, Staples, or another cunsumer oriented store may
carry for your average Windows user.
Amazingly, the home grade stuff that's on the shelves lately really is
plenty for a home net. The features it doesn't have are next to useless
on a network with fewer than 25 nodes.
Stay away from the firewall appliances though. They're notoriously
easy to get through.
What's the difference between managed and
unmanaged?
A serial port, a password, and several decimal points.
Seriously, a managed switch allows you to define which nodes can "go"
where, force connection parameters - 10Mb or 100, full-duplex or half -
keep transfer statistics, etc. A really good one will cost over a
grand. Like I said, I have one, and I prefer my little $70 NetGear
10/100 auto-sensing switch.
Doc
8123
days inactive
8124
days old
8 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
allain＠panix.com -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org -
jrkeys＠concentric.net -
lemay＠cs.umn.edu -
pete＠dunnington.u-net.com -
rhb57＠vol.com