1 Aug
2010
1 Aug
'10
1:11 a.m.
I received an email about VCFSW 1.0 on the ClassicMainframes list (the
most dead list I am on, at about a message a month), and it talks
about the collection of the Perot Group, down in Texas, possibly part
of a tour. Does anyone know much about this collection? Supposedly it
has some large IBMs.
--
Will
1 Aug
1 Aug
1:49 a.m.
On 7/31/10 10:11 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
I received an email about VCFSW 1.0 on the
ClassicMainframes list (the
most dead list I am on, at about a message a month), and it talks
about the collection of the Perot Group, down in Texas, possibly part
of a tour. Does anyone know much about this collection? Supposedly it
has some large IBMs.
--
Will
There was something in the lobby of EDS. I can't find the pics right now.
The weird thing was the pictures looked like it had several ENIAC racks.
We've been trying to figure out if they were repos or loans.
7:13 p.m.
There was something in the lobby of EDS. I can't
find the pics right now.
The weird thing was the pictures looked like it had several ENIAC racks.
We've been trying to figure out if they were repos or loans.
From the site:
"SPECIAL NOTICE: The Perot group has an interesting collection in
Plano, TX that includes many IBM machines. It also includes portions
of the original ENIAC. If there is sufficient interest we will be able
to arrange a tour of this facility either on Friday, August 6th or
Monday, August 9th. Arrangements will have to be made in advance for
each attendee, so be sure to contact us early if you are interested."
--
Will
7:27 p.m.
On 8/1/10 4:13 PM, William Donzelli wrote:
URL?
There was
something in the lobby of EDS. I can't find the pics right now.
The weird thing was the pictures looked like it had several ENIAC racks.
We've been trying to figure out if they were repos or loans.
From the site:
"SPECIAL NOTICE: The Perot group has an
interesting collection in
Plano, TX that includes many IBM machines. It also includes portions
of the original ENIAC.
We would be VERY interested in knowing which racks they have.
7:39 p.m.
"SPECIAL NOTICE: The Perot group has an
interesting collection in
Plano, TX that includes many IBM machines. It also includes portions
of the original ENIAC.
We would be VERY interested in knowing which racks they have.
9:37 p.m.
On 8/1/10 4:39 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
This might help:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rboyett/sets/72157600358828523/
What is curious is this claims there is only one panel in private hands.
http://rfidsrv.eecs.umich.edu/csebuilding/doku.php?id=1667
"SPECIAL NOTICE: The Perot group has an
interesting collection in
Plano, TX that includes many IBM machines. It also includes portions
of the original ENIAC.
We would be VERY interested in knowing which racks they have. 
9:52 p.m.
On 2010 Aug 1, at 4:39 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
This might help:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rboyett/sets/72157600358828523/
My gosh, how did those fly under the radar for so long? I take it the
display is not normally accessible to the public.
That's another 6 of the 40 racks of ENIAC. How much of ENIAC is known
then to still exist?
Some of the blinkenlights appear to be on in the photos, I wonder if or
how much the units have been modified to accomplish this.
"SPECIAL NOTICE: The Perot group has an
interesting collection in
Plano, TX that includes many IBM machines. It also includes portions
of the original ENIAC.
We would be VERY interested in knowing which racks they have. 
11:34 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
I have an unidentified drum from a line printer, 120 columns and 64
characters. The characters are the same on each horizontal line, and the
drum is one solid piece. Can anyone hazard a guess as to which printer
this might fit? There are no part numbers on it.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
11:39 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010, Mike Loewen wrote:
I have an unidentified drum from a line printer, 120
columns and 64
characters. The characters are the same on each horizontal line, and the
drum is one solid piece. Can anyone hazard a guess as to which printer this
might fit? There are no part numbers on it.
Oops, that should be 160 columns, not 120.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
2 Aug
2 Aug
12:40 a.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
On 1 Aug 2010 at 23:39, Mike Loewen wrote:
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010, Mike Loewen wrote:
Univac and CDC both had drum printers in the 60s/70s with 6-bit
character sets.
--Chuck
I have an unidentified drum from a line
printer, 120 columns and
64
characters. The characters are the same on each horizontal line,
and the drum is one solid piece. Can anyone hazard a guess as to
which printer this might fit? There are no part numbers on it.
Oops, that should be 160 columns, not 120.
12:14 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
On 1 Aug 2010 at 23:39, Mike Loewen wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2010, Mike Loewen wrote:
>
> > I have an unidentified drum from a line printer, 120 columns and
> > 64
> > characters. The characters are the same on each horizontal line,
> > and the drum is one solid piece. Can anyone hazard a guess as to
> > which printer this might fit? There are no part numbers on it.
>
> Oops, that should be 160 columns...
An afterthought--it would be useful to list the non-alphanumeric
characters. They were far from standard in the old days and
sometimes you could tell a maker by the character set.
--Chuck
8:16 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Chuck Guzis wrote:
The 64 character rows are laid out, thusly:
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - E T A I S O N H R D L U C M F W Y P G
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - V B K J $ * Q X Z # / + : = ' ( ) > <
The numbers 0-9 are doubled, along with period (.), comma (,) and dash
(-). Character spacing is 1/10 inch. I did some checking on HP drum
printers (originally from Data Products and Data Printer Corp), and none
of them went to 160 columns.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
On Sun, 1 Aug
2010, Mike Loewen wrote:
> I have an unidentified drum from a line printer, 160 columns and
> 64
> characters. The characters are the same on each horizontal line,
> and the drum is one solid piece. Can anyone hazard a guess as to
> which printer this might fit? There are no part numbers on it.
An afterthought--it would be useful to list the non-alphanumeric
characters. They were far from standard in the old days and
sometimes you could tell a maker by the character set. 
8:31 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
Mike Loewen wrote:
The 64 character rows are laid out, thusly:
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - E T A I S O N H R D L U C M F W Y P G
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - V B K J $ * Q X Z # / + : = ' ( ) > <
The numbers 0-9 are doubled, along with period (.), comma (,) and dash
(-). Character spacing is 1/10 inch. I did some checking on HP drum
printers (originally from Data Products and Data Printer Corp), and none
of them went to 160 columns.
I'm not familiar with the layout, but 160 columns makes me think Tally.
Peace... Sridhar
8:44 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
> The 64 character rows are laid out, thusly:
> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - E T A I S O N H R D L U C M F W Y P G
> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - V B K J $ * Q X Z # / + : = ' ( ) > <
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
I'm not familiar with the layout, but 160 columns
makes me think Tally.
When using frequency of usage for probabilities in code breaking, the most
common sequence (from most common letter to least) is often
E T A I O N S H R D L U
3 Aug
3 Aug
4 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
From: Fred Cisin
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:44 PM
>> The 64 character rows are laid out, thusly:
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - E T A I S O N H R D L U C M F W Y P G
>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - V B K J $ * Q X Z # / + : = ' ( ) > <
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
> I'm not familiar with the layout, but 160
columns makes me think Tally.
When using frequency of usage for probabilities in
code breaking, the most
common sequence (from most common letter to least) is often
E T A I O N S H R D L U
That's for English. Other Latin-alphabet languages will have different
frequencies.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Server Engineer
Vulcan, Inc.
505 5th Avenue S, Suite 900
Seattle, WA 98104
mailto:RichA at vulcan.com
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.PDPplanet.org/
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
4:21 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
>>> The 64 character rows are laid out,
thusly:
>>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - E T A I S O N H R D L U C M F W Y P G
>>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - V B K J $ * Q X Z # / + : = ' ( ) > <
> When using frequency of usage for probabilities in code breaking, the most
> common sequence (from most common letter to least) is often
> E T A I O N S H R D L U
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Rich Alderson wrote:
That's for English. Other Latin-alphabet
languages will have different
frequencies.
Absolutely!
I think that French has 'L' near the top.
Can you think of what language has 'S' a few characters closer to the top
than English?
Is there any significance to which characters are NOT present?
(such as '?' ';')
5:05 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
Can you think of what language has 'S' a few
characters closer to the top
than English?
I bet Spanish.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- "Another day, another dangling modifier" -----------------------------------
5:28 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
> Can you think of what language has 'S' a
few characters closer to the top
> than English?
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I bet Spanish.
But, if it were intended for Spanish, then I would expect a few other
changes:
regular and inverted question marks and exclamation points (tho
this example has no question marks nor exclamation points at all)
a tilde that can be placed over some 'N's (overstrike?)
(ever see the CalTrans signs for "La Canada Road"?)
The single quote that is present could function of any needed
accent marks
5:30 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
Fred Cisin wrote:
German?
Peace... Sridhar
> Can you
think of what language has 'S' a few characters closer to the top
> than English?
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I bet Spanish.
But, if it were intended for Spanish, then I would expect a few other
changes: 
7:38 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
On 03/08/10 22:30, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
German?
Not without the Eszett (the German letter that looks like a Greek 'beta').
--
Phil.
classiccmp at philpem.me.uk
http://www.philpem.me.uk/
7:44 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
German?
Not without the Eszett (the German letter that looks like a Greek 'beta').
8:31 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
Have a look at this page from the Sunday, December 15, 1935 Rochester
Democrat and Chronicle under the column headed "Even The Crypt Has
'Don'ts'". Look familiar? Everyone doesn't agree on "Etaoin
Shrdlu"
http://tinyurl.com/294zc5o
I wonder if the drum isn't from a GE or SDS-badged printer.
--Chuck
P.S. I heard it from Neil Lincoln that the "ETA Systems" name *was*
based on ETAOIN SHRDLU. This was at about the time that ETA was just
getting going, long before the first machine was built and the
machine to be was still being referred to as the "GF-10".
5:32 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
> Can you
think of what language has 'S' a few characters closer to the top
> than English?
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Cameron Kaiser wrote:
I bet Spanish.
But, if it were intended for Spanish, then I would expect a few other
changes:
regular and inverted question marks and exclamation points (tho
this example has no question marks nor exclamation points at all)
a tilde that can be placed over some 'N's (overstrike?)
(ever see the CalTrans signs for "La Canada Road"?)
The single quote that is present could function of any needed
accent marks
6:14 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
Does no one here do the daily Cryptoquote in the newspaper?
If you do, you already realize that, regardless of the Linotype
keyboard, letter frequency in English is highly variable, depending
on the sample used. About all that can be said is that E is the most
frequently-occurring letter in the English language. After that, the
also-ran slots are up for grabs. See, for example:
http://www.atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/lh_frequencies.pdf
So it's quite likely that the positions on the print drum were
determined by an independent analysis of a sample text.
--Chuck
11:53 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Chuck Guzis wrote:
Does no one here do the daily Cryptoquote in the
newspaper?
If you do, you already realize that, regardless of the Linotype
keyboard, letter frequency in English is highly variable, depending
on the sample used. About all that can be said is that E is the most
frequently-occurring letter in the English language. After that, the
also-ran slots are up for grabs. See, for example:
http://www.atlas-games.com/pdf_storage/lh_frequencies.pdf
So it's quite likely that the positions on the print drum were
determined by an independent analysis of a sample text.
That's why I said "most common sequence"
9:41 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
Fred Cisin wrote:
It was not intended to print C code listings?
<VBG>
I'm just trying to be funny of course, and you'd miss a lot more than
just the ';'. However, if you're like me and pretty much loathe the
ternary operator, you might not miss the '?' at all...
Later,
Charlie C.
>>>
The 64 character rows are laid out, thusly:
>>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - E T A I S O N H R D L U C M F W Y P G
>>> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - V B K J $ * Q X Z # / + : = ' ( ) > <
> When using frequency of usage for probabilities in code breaking, the most
> common sequence (from most common letter to least) is often
> E T A I O N S H R D L U
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010, Rich Alderson wrote:
That's for English. Other Latin-alphabet
languages will have different
frequencies.
Absolutely!
I think that French has 'L' near the top.
Can you think of what language has 'S' a few characters closer to the top
than English?
Is there any significance to which characters are NOT present?
(such as '?' ';') 
4 Aug
4 Aug
12:47 a.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
Charlie Carothers wrote:
BEN
I'm just trying to be funny of course, and
you'd miss a lot more than
just the ';'. However, if you're like me and pretty much loathe the
ternary operator, you might not miss the '?' at all...
Later,
Charlie C.
I DON'T MISS THE BANG BANG BANG OF THE DRUM HAMMERS
2 Aug
2 Aug
8:35 p.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Mike Loewen wrote:
The 64 character rows are laid out, thusly:
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - E T A I S O N H R D L U C M F W Y P G
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 . 8 , 9 - V B K J $ * Q X Z # / + : = ' ( ) > <
No help at all for your question, but it interests me that 'S' has been
put between 'I' and 'O', instead of the usual between 'N' and
'H'. The
further down the list you go, the more variations there are from one
frequency list to another, but that is an unusually high placement of 'S'.
3 Aug
3 Aug
12:40 a.m.
New subject: Mystery print drum
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 1 Aug 2010 at 23:39, Mike Loewen wrote:
I'm pretty sure the Data Products ones we used had 6-bit character sets
as well. However ISTR they were only 132 columns, though DP could well
have made 160 column ones as well.
Later,
Charlie C.
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010, Mike Loewen wrote:
Univac and CDC both had drum printers in the 60s/70s with 6-bit
character sets.
--Chuck
I have an unidentified drum from a line
printer, 120 columns and
64
characters. The characters are the same on each horizontal line,
and the drum is one solid piece. Can anyone hazard a guess as to
which printer this might fit? There are no part numbers on it.
Oops, that
should be 160 columns, not 120.
5101
days inactive
5104
days old
31 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
classiccmp＠philpem.me.uk -
csquared3＠tx.rr.com -
evan＠snarc.net -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
RichA＠vulcan.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com