6 Apr
1999
6 Apr
'99
8:34 a.m.
On Tuesday, April 06, 1999 4:24 PM, Mike [SMTP:dogas@leading.net] wrote:
My vacation/computer-rescue-mission has come to a
close and there is now
a
big honkin pile of trs-80 6000 and 16b toys on my
living room floor. :)
Several of them have broken this or thatsz but the first one I pulled, a
6000hd 15mhd, booted into Xenix 3.0.1 I think (Microsoft '84). the 68k
in
it crashed after about 20min of xenix frolicking.
She's resting now.
I'd
like cc and tcp for this if anyone can help me out?
I 'm sure some
parts
will be available as soon as I figure out what I have.
Software, give
me
software or give me death.
;)
- Mike: dogas(a)leading.net
Mike,
Nice haul...
A couple of weeks ago, I got a Model 2 and a Model 16 sans keyboards. Both
machines had been in storage for a long time and were absolutely filthy.
After careful disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly, the Model 2 returned
to life. Another list member has located a keyboard for me (thanks) so,
that one is complete. I haven't found a boot disk for it yet but, I'm sure
it'll work just fine.
Last weekend I opened up the Model 16 to see if it could be resurrected.
The hard drive had been previously removed but it looks like everything
else is there. After the ritual cleaning, I applied power to the computer
and promptly smoked the floppy drive. One of the traces on the PCB lit up
like a freakin Christmas tree. DAMN! I'm surprised it didn't blow a fuse or
something. I haven't looked at the drive too closely so, I'm not really
sure what happened there.
If it is a power supply problem, the whole machine could be history. I'm
hoping it was a problem with the floppy and didn't kill anything else.
I have not been able to get a trace on the CRT and really don't have the
enough tools to properly diagnose the problem. I did however notice the
filament on the CRT was glowing and the cooling fans were running. I
believe the fans get power from the 110AC primary and the filament could be
from an unregulated source. So, this doesn't
totally eliminate a Power
Supply problem. Can anyone tell me what voltages should
appear on the PS
connectors?
Is there an easy way to determine if the processor is alive?
Unfortunately, I don't have a scope or logic probe :-(
If anyone can suggest a good source for a Logic Probe, I'll consider
buying one?
If I'm unable to get this thing working, I'll make the parts available. The
case and CRT are in really good condition so, don't trash any of the Model
16 parts yet. Between us, we should be able to put another one together.
Good Luck,
Steve Robertson - <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
6 Apr
6 Apr
10:28 a.m.
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Steve Robertson wrote:
After careful disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly,
the Model 2 returned
to life. Another list member has located a keyboard for me (thanks) so,
that one is complete. I haven't found a boot disk for it yet but, I'm sure
it'll work just fine.
I recently made a CP/M and TRSDOS-II boot disk for another list member and
I'd be happy to do the same for both you and Mike. Of course, you'll
probably have to wait as long as Aaron did (about 6 weeks).
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 04/03/99]
1:41 p.m.
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
I recently made a CP/M and TRSDOS-II boot disk for
another list member and
I'd be happy to do the same for both you and Mike. Of course, you'll
probably have to wait as long as Aaron did (about 6 weeks).
Remember that TRSDOS-II
won't work on a Model 2 without an arcnet or
hard disk card. A stock Mod 2 uses TRSDOS 2.0a. (or 2.0 or 1.2, let's
not discuss 1.2 please).
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
12:09 p.m.
On 6 Apr 99 at 22:41, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
In my cache of disks for my model 2 which has been abandoned for about 6 mo
I seem to remember a TRSDOS v 4.x or am I dreaming ?
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Collectors info http://members.xoom.com/T3C
I recently made a CP/M and TRSDOS-II boot disk
for another list member and
I'd be happy to do the same for both you and Mike. Of course, you'll
probably have to wait as long as Aaron did (about 6 weeks).
Remember that
TRSDOS-II won't work on a Model 2 without an arcnet or
hard disk card. A stock Mod 2 uses TRSDOS 2.0a. (or 2.0 or 1.2, let's
not discuss 1.2 please).
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
7 Apr
7 Apr
12:53 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote:
On 6 Apr 99 at 22:41, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
That's TRSDOS-II. The last version IIRC was 4.2 with patches. It
provided support for double-sided media in the 12/16/6000 and for
hard disks throughout the Model 2 line. It required an additional
16k of RAM that existed on Arcnet and HD adapter cards. Unlike
TRSDOS 2.0, it did not support duplicating a diskette with only one
floppy drive.
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
In my cache of disks for my model 2 which has been abandoned for about 6 mo
I seem to remember a TRSDOS v 4.x or am I dreaming ? I recently made a CP/M and TRSDOS-II boot disk
for another list member and
I'd be happy to do the same for both you and Mike. Of course, you'll
probably have to wait as long as Aaron did (about 6 weeks).
Remember that
TRSDOS-II won't work on a Model 2 without an arcnet or
hard disk card. A stock Mod 2 uses TRSDOS 2.0a. (or 2.0 or 1.2, let's
not discuss 1.2 please).
6 Apr
6 Apr
4:44 p.m.
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
That's odd. Why not? I don't know that the Model 2 I have has either.
All I know is that I put the system disks I have in the drive and they
come up.
The CP/M version btw is Pickles & Trout v2.2.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't rub the lamp if you don't want the genie to come out.
Coming in 1999: Vintage Computer Festival 3.0
See http://www.vintage.org/vcf for details!
[Last web site update: 04/03/99]
I recently made a CP/M and TRSDOS-II boot disk
for another list member and
I'd be happy to do the same for both you and Mike. Of course, you'll
probably have to wait as long as Aaron did (about 6 weeks).
Remember that
TRSDOS-II won't work on a Model 2 without an arcnet or
hard disk card. A stock Mod 2 uses TRSDOS 2.0a. (or 2.0 or 1.2, let's
not discuss 1.2 please).
11:25 p.m.
On 6 Apr 99 at 22:44, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
That seems to have been the preferred CP/M by TRS users from what I was able
to find. There was a company in Texas that had a web-site supporting it untill
a couple of years ago. Can't remember their name.
ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Collectors info http://members.xoom.com/T3C
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
That's odd. Why not? I don't know that the Model 2 I have has either.
All I know is that I put the system disks I have in the drive and they
come up.
The CP/M version btw is Pickles & Trout v2.2.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I recently made a CP/M and TRSDOS-II boot disk
for another list member and
I'd be happy to do the same for both you and Mike. Of course, you'll
probably have to wait as long as Aaron did (about 6 weeks).
Remember that
TRSDOS-II won't work on a Model 2 without an arcnet or
hard disk card. A stock Mod 2 uses TRSDOS 2.0a. (or 2.0 or 1.2, let's
not discuss 1.2 please). 
7 Apr
7 Apr
6:57 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Lawrence Walker wrote:
On 6 Apr 99 at 22:44, Sellam Ismail wrote:
That would be:
TriSoft (James Knox)
1825 East 38 1/2
Austin, TX 78722
(512) 472-0744
(800) 531-5170
FAX (512) 473-2122
I think they are still around.
- don
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
That seems to have been the preferred CP/M by TRS users from what I was able
to find. There was a company in Texas that had a web-site supporting it untill
a couple of years ago. Can't remember their name. On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Sellam Ismail wrote:
That's odd. Why not? I don't know that the Model 2 I have has either.
All I know is that I put the system disks I have in the drive and they
come up.
The CP/M version btw is Pickles & Trout v2.2.
Sellam Alternate e-mail: dastar(a)siconic.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I recently made a CP/M and TRSDOS-II boot disk
for another list member and
I'd be happy to do the same for both you and Mike. Of course, you'll
probably have to wait as long as Aaron did (about 6 weeks).
Remember that
TRSDOS-II won't work on a Model 2 without an arcnet or
hard disk card. A stock Mod 2 uses TRSDOS 2.0a. (or 2.0 or 1.2, let's
not discuss 1.2 please). ciao larry
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Collectors info http://members.xoom.com/T3C
6 Apr
6 Apr
11:02 a.m.
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1:30 p.m.
On Tue, 6 Apr 1999, Steve Robertson wrote:
After careful disassembly, cleaning, and reassembly,
the Model 2 returned
to life. Another list member has located a keyboard for me (thanks) so,
that one is complete. I haven't found a boot disk for it yet but, I'm sure
it'll work just fine.
The Model 2 keyboard would work fine on a Model 16 if the Model 16 has
the same case shape as the 2 -- or is it a 16b? which needs a gender
change as a minimum.
Last weekend I opened up the Model 16 to see if it
could be resurrected.
The hard drive had been previously removed but it looks like everything
Hmm? No Model 16 ever contained a hard drive -- do you mean the board
to attach an external? The only machine in that series that ever had
an internal HD was the Tandy 6000HD. The original 16 could not have
that upgrade as could the 12/16b/6000 due to lack of room.
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
9:59 p.m.
Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
The Model 2 keyboard would work fine on a Model 16 if
the Model 16 has
the same case shape as the 2 -- or is it a 16b? which needs a gender
change as a minimum.
Now that I can read it, he label on the front on the machine says it's a
Model 16B. When I got it, it was so dirty I could barely tell that it
was even a Tandy! The case looks *very* similar to the Model 2. The
keyboard connector on both machines looks like a standard PC keyboard
connector. Since they're the same, I can share the keyboard between the
machines (doubt I'll need both at the same time) 8^)
Hmm? No Model 16 ever contained a hard drive -- do
you mean the board
to attach an external? The only machine in that series that ever had
an internal HD was the Tandy 6000HD. The original 16 could not have
that upgrade as could the 12/16b/6000 due to lack of room.
The plastic cover plate on the front of the machine says "15 MEG DISK
SYSTEM" and there is a controller card (MFM?) in the cage. The ribbon
cables for the drive are fairly short and were routed internally. There
was also a "Sector Error Map" attached to the top of the drive bays.
There seems to be plenty of room and it sure looks like a drive was
mounted internally?
Are there any special requirements for the 16B hard drive?
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
7 Apr
7 Apr
12:37 a.m.
If I remember right, that 15 meg disk was REALLY large, although I may be
thinking of an earlier version. Measurements would be about 9" thick by
25-30 deep, nearly as broad. I don't think that'd fit in the case without
a lot of coaxing. I know we have a couple of those old drives
squirrelled away, and they aren't small. Neither is the one for the 6000
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Steve Robertson wrote:
Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
The Model 2 keyboard would work fine on a Model
16 if the Model 16 has
the same case shape as the 2 -- or is it a 16b? which needs a gender
change as a minimum.
Now that I can read it, he label on the front on the machine says it's a
Model 16B. When I got it, it was so dirty I could barely tell that it
was even a Tandy! The case looks *very* similar to the Model 2. The
keyboard connector on both machines looks like a standard PC keyboard
connector. Since they're the same, I can share the keyboard between the
machines (doubt I'll need both at the same time) 8^)
Hmm? No Model 16 ever contained a hard drive --
do you mean the board
to attach an external? The only machine in that series that ever had
an internal HD was the Tandy 6000HD. The original 16 could not have
that upgrade as could the 12/16b/6000 due to lack of room.
The plastic cover plate on the front of the machine says "15 MEG DISK
SYSTEM" and there is a controller card (MFM?) in the cage. The ribbon
cables for the drive are fairly short and were routed internally. There
was also a "Sector Error Map" attached to the top of the drive bays.
There seems to be plenty of room and it sure looks like a drive was
mounted internally?
Are there any special requirements for the 16B hard drive?
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
6 Apr
6 Apr
11:24 p.m.
On 7 Apr 99 at 9:37, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
lwalker(a)interlog.com
Collectors info http://members.xoom.com/T3C
If I remember right, that 15 meg disk was REALLY large, although I may be
thinking of an earlier version. Measurements would be about 9" thick by
25-30 deep, nearly as broad. I don't think that'd fit in the case without
a lot of coaxing. I know we have a couple of those old drives
squirrelled away, and they aren't small. Neither is the one for the 6000
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Steve Robertson wrote:
Thats the same size as the 3 8M ones I got with my M2. Perhaps there was
later model that took advantage of the advancing technology.
Ward D.
Griffiths III wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
Hmm? No Model 16 ever contained a hard drive --
do you mean the board
to attach an external? The only machine in that series that ever had
an internal HD was the Tandy 6000HD. The original 16 could not have
that upgrade as could the 12/16b/6000 due to lack of room.
The plastic cover plate on the front of the machine says "15 MEG DISK
SYSTEM" and there is a controller card (MFM?) in the cage. The ribbon
cables for the drive are fairly short and were routed internally. There
was also a "Sector Error Map" attached to the top of the drive bays.
There seems to be plenty of room and it sure looks like a drive was
mounted internally?
Are there any special requirements for the 16B hard drive?
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
7 Apr
7 Apr
1:31 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
If I remember right, that 15 meg disk was REALLY
large, although I may be
thinking of an earlier version. Measurements would be about 9" thick by
25-30 deep, nearly as broad. I don't think that'd fit in the case without
a lot of coaxing. I know we have a couple of those old drives
squirrelled away, and they aren't small. Neither is the one for the 6000
You mistake the container for the contents. The external drive unit
was in a larger box than necessary even when it first came out. The
box contained the power supply, the controller board for all four
drives (the card in the computer was basically a bus adapter to give
the 2/12/16/6000 system a Model 3/4 expansion bus) and a full height
5.25" Tandon drive. The drive in the 6000HD (available as an
upgrade for the 12 and later systems) was a half-height unit and
allowed only one secondary drive while the external primaries
allowed three.
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
4:04 a.m.
I know the later drives seemed much more compact, about the size of a
floppy drive. Those early ones were enormous though. I've never
opened
one up though, so I wasn't sure what it contained. I suspected some sort
of 8 inch drive.
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Ward D. Griffiths III wrote:
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
If I remember right, that 15 meg disk was REALLY
large, although I may be
thinking of an earlier version. Measurements would be about 9" thick by
25-30 deep, nearly as broad. I don't think that'd fit in the case without
a lot of coaxing. I know we have a couple of those old drives
squirrelled away, and they aren't small. Neither is the one for the 6000
You mistake the container for the contents. The external drive unit
was in a larger box than necessary even when it first came out. The
box contained the power supply, the controller board for all four
drives (the card in the computer was basically a bus adapter to give
the 2/12/16/6000 system a Model 3/4 expansion bus) and a full height
5.25" Tandon drive. The drive in the 6000HD (available as an
upgrade for the 12 and later systems) was a half-height unit and
allowed only one secondary drive while the external primaries
allowed three.
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
11 Apr
11 Apr
2:06 a.m.
Merle K. Peirce wrote:
I know the later drives seemed much more compact, about the size of a
floppy drive. Those early ones were enormous though. I've never
opened
one up though, so I wasn't sure what it contained. I suspected some sort
of 8 inch drive.
There are three form factors for external Tandy hard drive cases.
The earliest were the 8.4 Mb, it was huge with an 8" Shugart unit
inside. These drives were not compatible with any other (later)
Tandy drives or controllers, nor could their controller be used
with any other drives.
The most common line are in a somewhat smaller (but still quite
large) case, containing a full-height 5.25" unit. THese came in
sizes of 5, 12, 15, 35 and 70 Mb. Any primary drive in this series
can work with up to three secondaries of whatever capacity. These
were the drives where the card inside the Model 2/12/16/6000 was
essentially an adapter to give the machine an expansion bus
identical to that of the Model 3/4, these same drives connected to
those machines with a cable straight through from the edge connector
in the 3/4 to the header connector on the primary drive case. The
6000HD or other machine with the internal HD could connect to only
one secondary drive.
About the time I left Tandy, they came out with a smaller external
case, primarily for the Tandy 1000, there were adapters available to
connect them to the Model 3/4 and the Tandy 2000. I don't know the
nature of the adapters, I never used one. They held a half-height
5.25 unit. I recall they were originally 10 Mb.
Oh yeah, the CoCo HD adapter RomPak also connected to the second
series. I never got one, the HD controllers on my CoCo 3s are not
Tandy issue.
--
Ward Griffiths <mailto:gram@cnct.com> <http://www.cnct.com/home/gram/>
WARNING: The Attorney General has determined that Alcohol, Tobacco,
and Firearms can be hazardous to your health -- and get away with it.
7 Apr
7 Apr
2:06 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Apr 1999, Steve Robertson wrote:
Now that I can read it, he label on the front on the
machine says it's a
Model 16B. When I got it, it was so dirty I could barely tell that it
was even a Tandy! The case looks *very* similar to the Model 2. The
keyboard connector on both machines looks like a standard PC keyboard
connector. Since they're the same, I can share the keyboard between the
machines (doubt I'll need both at the same time) 8^)
Hmm. It's been a long time, but I could have sworn the 16B was in
a Model 12 style case like the 6000. Does the computer have a cable
to go to the keyboard like the Model 2 does or does it have a DIN
connector that a cable attached to the keyboard would plug into?
I now recall that a 16B-HD was released, but it was very brief and
almost immediately replaced by the 6000HD.
Are there any special requirements for the 16B hard
drive?
The drive itself can be just about any ST-506/MFM. The limit for
the controller is 8 heads by 1024 cylinders. I don't know if any
weird mods need to be made for an internal drive or not, for the
external drives there was a matter of wiring the write-protect.
Best man to ask at this point would be Frank Durda IV over in
comp.sys.tandy.
--
Ward Griffiths
"the timid die just like the daring; and if you don't take the plunge then
you'll just take the fall" Michael Longcor
9217
days inactive
9222
days old
16 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
dastar＠ncal.verio.com -
donm＠cts.com -
gram＠cnct.com -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com -
steverob＠hotoffice.com