2 Jun
2004
2 Jun
'04
6:47 a.m.
My voicemail PC died a pretty terrible death this morning. I was still
groggy from a late night of hackering and sitting at my computer (my back
is to the voicemail system) and all of a sudden this loud popping begins.
At first a wave of terror washed over me as my not quite totally
functioning brain was trying to determine just what the hell was going on.
At first I didn't want to look but I turned around in time to see some
serious arcing going on inside the exposed PC (the case is off). It went
on for a good 4-5 seconds (start to finish). It was probably the power
supply but I can't tell for sure until I do a post-mortem (right now I'm
getting my voicemail back up). Luckily it didn't take out any hardware.
The hard drive is fine and as far as I can tell so far so are the voice
boards. That was some crazy shit.
The power supply fan went bad on it a while ago (over a year, surely
longer) and I never bothered replacing it because I always use just
whatever hardware I have laying about whenever something goes bad on the
box, and those damn power supply fans go out all the time and it's a pain
to have to replace them. Anyway, I wonder if it was some critical thermal
failure of some sort. The P/S was hot but not abnormally so (abnormal in
this case would be scorching but usual temperature is very hot to the
touch but not burning).
Wacky.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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2 Jun
2 Jun
6:55 a.m.
And thusly Vintage Computer Festival spake:
My voicemail PC died a pretty terrible death this morning. I was still
groggy from a late night of hackering and sitting at my computer (my back
is to the voicemail system) and all of a sudden this loud popping begins.
At first a wave of terror washed over me as my not quite totally
functioning brain was trying to determine just what the hell was going on.
At first I didn't want to look but I turned around in time to see some
serious arcing going on inside the exposed PC (the case is off). It went
on for a good 4-5 seconds (start to finish). It was probably the power
Sounds like the start of a B-grade horror movie! ;)
Cheers,
Bryan Pope
7:43 a.m.
On Wed, 2004-06-02 at 18:47, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
The power supply fan went bad on it a while ago (over
a year, surely
longer) and I never bothered replacing it because I always use just
whatever hardware I have laying about whenever something goes bad on the
box, and those damn power supply fans go out all the time and it's a pain
to have to replace them.
FWIW, the 12V fans in Mac LC series machines seem to be of a lot better
quality than the nasty PC equivalent, and - at least round here - Mac
LC's are now even easier to come by than old AT-style PCs*.
I imagine you'll find such a fan is a straight swap - I think they're
about the right size. I've been running one in my network switch (with a
bit of homebrew cardboard ducting!) for the last few months and it's way
quieter than the cheapo fan that I took out.
* No idea why this is the case. Hoarding because Macs were horribly
expensive and people remember this, and so for some reason store the
machines rather than throw them out? OTOH, AT-class PCs seem hard to
come by now; I assume they've all long since exploded or been sent to
the crusher.
cheers
Jules
10:56 a.m.
On Wed, 2004-06-02 at 18:47, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
> The power supply fan went bad on it a while ago (over a year, surely
> longer) and I never bothered replacing it because I always use just
> whatever hardware I have laying about whenever something goes bad on the
> box, and those damn power supply fans go out all the time and it's a pain
> to have to replace them.
Yes, but they're put there for a good reason. Electronic devices last a
lot longer if properly cooled. I hope you treat your classic computers
more carefully (although isn't a 486 system likely to be a 'classic' by
the charter of this list now?)
FWIW, the 12V fans in Mac LC series machines seem to be of a lot better
quality than the nasty PC equivalent, and - at least round here - Mac
LC's are now even easier to come by than old AT-style PCs*.
I imagine you'll find such a fan is a straight swap - I think they're
AFAIK these fans are still being made, and are available from RS,
Farnell, etc. Of course they're not cheap, but they tend to be better
made than the ones from PC shops....
-tony
11:59 a.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
AFAIK these fans are still being made, and are available from RS,
Farnell, etc. Of course they're not cheap, but they tend to be better
made than the ones from PC shops....
I've had very bad luck with Radio Shack fans, if that is what you mean
by RS. They always sieze up after less than a year of use.
12:03 p.m.
No. RS is RS Components. The RS stands for Radiospares - and they've come a
long way from selling duff electrolytics back in the sixties. :^)
Geoff.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Handy" <kth(a)srv.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: 486 dies terrible death
Tony Duell wrote:
AFAIK these fans are still being made, and are available from RS,
Farnell, etc. Of course they're not cheap, but they tend to be better
made than the ones from PC shops....
I've had very bad luck with Radio Shack fans, if that is what you mean
by RS. They always sieze up after less than a year of use.
12:13 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoffrey Thomas" <geoffreythomas(a)onetel.net.uk>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: Re: 486 dies terrible death
No. RS is RS Components. The RS stands for Radiospares
- and they've come
a
long way from selling duff electrolytics back in the
sixties. :^)
Geoff.
I usually buy a bunch of fans from these guys (if you use a MasterCard they
still might have a 10% discount):
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=3X3-TYPHOON&cat=FAN
You can replace the PS fan with these types if you have too (done it once).
Its allot easier just to vacuum the dust out every once and a while.
3:17 p.m.
I've had very bad luck with Radio Shack fans, if
that is what you mean
by RS. They always sieze up after less than a year of use.
No, RS is RS Components ('Radiospares' to those who've been doing
electronics as long as I have) -- see http://www.rswww.com (IIRC).
-tony
12:05 p.m.
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Tony Duell wrote:
I've got more power supplies than I care to have. More literally come
through the door every week. I'd rather just let them die and replace the
whole supply once in a great while and then recycle the dead unit rather
than go through the nonsense of replacing the fan.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
FWIW, the 12V
fans in Mac LC series machines seem to be of a lot better
quality than the nasty PC equivalent, and - at least round here - Mac
LC's are now even easier to come by than old AT-style PCs*.
I imagine you'll find such a fan is a straight swap - I think they're
AFAIK these fans are still being made, and are available from RS,
Farnell, etc. Of course they're not cheap, but they tend to be better
made than the ones from PC shops....
1:39 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf(a)siconic.com To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Sent: Wednesday, June
02, 2004 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: 486 dies terrible death
I've got more power supplies than I care to have. More literally come
through the door every week. I'd rather just let them die and replace the
whole supply once in a great while and then recycle the dead unit rather
than go through the nonsense of replacing the fan.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
Having extra supplies does not help if one decides to catch fire and burn
your house down.
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Tony Duell wrote:
> > FWIW, the 12V fans in Mac LC series machines seem to be of a lot
better
quality than the nasty PC equivalent, and - at least
round here - Mac
LC's are now even easier to come by than old AT-style PCs*.
I imagine you'll find such a fan is a straight swap - I think they're
AFAIK these fans are still being made, and are available from RS,
Farnell, etc. Of course they're not cheap, but they tend to be better
made than the ones from PC shops....
2:40 p.m.
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Teo Zenios wrote:
Having extra supplies does not help if one decides to
catch fire and burn
your house down.
Woof.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
3:32 p.m.
I've got more power supplies than I care to have.
More literally come
through the door every week. I'd rather just let them die and replace the
whole supply once in a great while and then recycle the dead unit rather
JUst hope that the supply doesn't do damage to any other part of the
machine (or indeed catch fire and do damage to anything else), and that
the rest of the machine doesn't run too hot (the PSU fan cools other
components too in most PCs).
than go through the nonsense of replacing the fan.
If you once replaced the fan with a decent one, it would carry on working
for 5 years or more.
-tony
3:16 p.m.
I've got
more power supplies than I care to have. More literally come
through the door every week. I'd rather just let them die and replace the
whole supply once in a great while and then recycle the dead unit rather
JUst hope that the supply doesn't do damage to any other part of the
machine (or indeed catch fire and do damage to anything else), and that
the rest of the machine doesn't run too hot (the PSU fan cools other
components too in most PCs).
than go through the nonsense of replacing the
fan.
If you once replaced the fan with a decent one, it would carry on working
for 5 years or more. 
3 Jun
3 Jun
1:38 p.m.
Quothe Tony Duell, from writings of Thu, Jun 03, 2004 at 04:32:07AM +0100:
Quothe someone else:
> than go through the nonsense of replacing the
fan.
That is not nonsense, it's called repairing something properly. A
perfectly proper repair would be to repair the fan itself if it can be
repaired.
If you once replaced the fan with a decent one, it
would carry on working
for 5 years or more.
Every few months I oil the fan in one of my PCs; that keeps it working
and quiet.
--
Copyright (C) 2004 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
www.rddavis.org 410-744-4900 beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
2 Jun
2 Jun
10:45 a.m.
The power supply fan is there to keep the power
supply cool. I'm not surprised that it died
catastrophically after being run with no fan.
In our lab at work, though, I once saw a power
supply with a working fan fail this way. Perhaps
not as spectacularly, but it coughed a couple of
sparks out the back before it quit. It was on a
system that was repeatedly power-cycled during
testing, which I am told is rough on the PS.
--Bill
--- Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> wrote:
The power supply fan went bad on it a while ago
(over a year, surely
longer) and I never bothered replacing it
12:01 p.m.
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, William Maddox wrote:
The power supply fan is there to keep the power
supply cool. I'm not surprised that it died
catastrophically after being run with no fan.
Oh? I thought it was just there to make a comforting whirring sound.
;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
12:12 p.m.
There is a new noise cancelling fan design out now which uses 4 mini - L
/spkrs at the 4 fan corners plus electronics to kill fan sound. So next time
you won't even know the fan has gone until the transistors tell you.
Geoff. * *
!
O
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf(a)siconic.com To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org Sent: Thursday, June
03, 2004 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: 486 dies terrible death
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, William Maddox wrote:
Festival
The power supply fan is there to keep the power
supply cool. I'm not surprised that it died
catastrophically after being run with no fan.
Oh? I thought it was just there to make a comforting whirring sound.
;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage
mputers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at
http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
11:40 a.m.
On Wed, 2004-06-02 at 11:47, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
My voicemail PC died a pretty terrible death this
morning. ...
The power supply fan went bad on it a while ago (over a year, surely
longer) and I never bothered replacing it
Umm, power supply fans aren't optional. If the top of the box is hot you
can be sure some hot components inside the box are 40 - 100 degrees
hotter, the top of the box is a low average temp of the junk inside!
If you're REALLY lazy, simply tape the replacement fan to the OUTSIDE of
the power supply, pumping air in the right direction. The dud fan will
be an obstruction, but 1/2 airflow beats none by a huge factor.
tomj
4 Jun
4 Jun
3:30 p.m.
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 16:40:29 -0700
Tom Jennings <tomj(a)wps.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2004-06-02 at 11:47, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
I once noticed that the Power Supply fan in my bosses' computer had
died.
The way I noticed was that the CD-ROM disc she pulled out of her machine
and handed me was hot.
My voicemail PC died a pretty terrible death this
morning. ...
The power supply fan went bad on it a while ago (over a year, surely
longer) and I never bothered replacing it
Umm, power supply fans aren't optional. If the top of the box is hot
you can be sure some hot components inside the box are 40 - 100
degrees hotter, the top of the box is a low average temp of the junk
inside!
2 Jun
2 Jun
11:57 a.m.
New subject: Post Mortem Re: 486 dies terrible death
I did a post mortem on the box and found that two power transistors in the
power supply were the culprits. They literally went out with a bang. My
theory is that the sinewy dust ball I found stuck to their heatsinks
probably caused an arc.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
3 Jun
3 Jun
6:38 a.m.
New subject: Post Mortem Re: 486 dies terrible death
On Wed, 2004-06-02 at 16:57, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
I did a post mortem on the box and found that two
power transistors in the
power supply were the culprits. They literally went out with a bang. My
theory is that the sinewy dust ball I found stuck to their heatsinks
probably caused an arc.
Nahh, it's a factory installed comfort blanket, it acts as insulation
against the noise of the fan which wakes up the transistors too often.
Remove it at your peril.
7459
days inactive
7461
days old
20 comments
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participants (12)
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