24 Jun
2013
24 Jun
'13
11:50 p.m.
It seems early history isn?t popular?anything before the Apple 1 or
IBM PC is just not on the radar of computer or computer-like users
today.
Murray McCullough. Computer historian
25 Jun
25 Jun
11:08 a.m.
On 24 June 2013 23:50, Murray McCullough <c.murray.mccullough at gmail.com> wrote:
It seems early history isn?t popular?anything before
the Apple 1 or
IBM PC is just not on the radar of computer or computer-like users
today.
I happen to be interested in the pre-Apple 1 and pre-IBM PC era of
machines; and I'm a computer user of today, relatively (born 1991, so
I'm not one of the little morons born in this century).
Then again, personal machines are... less of an interest to me, I'm
more interested in the minis and mainframes. (I like the DEC machines
most; and I'd give an arm and a leg for a working PDP-11/70; and
probably my spleen for a PDP-8/e with a TD8E and a TU56.)
In my age group (20 somethings in university and college), I mostly
see interest in three fields:
1. Ultra-modern PC "stuff". (I ashamedly fall into this group,
currently building up my funds for both PDP-11 gear and a modern
gaming PC.)
2. "Retro" PC gear, not so much 8086 and 286 era as 486 and Pentium 1
era, where many of us got our introductions to PCs and PC gaming.
3. "Oddball" machines (my friends' terminology, not mine), like
Commodore 64s, and Amiga 500s.
The IBM PC, the Apple 1, the Altair, et cetera are less so "let's see
them working" and more so "let's put them in a museum" for the people
I know. Minicomputers don't even register.
Looking at present day teenagers and kids... well all I can see there
is interest in the newest and shiniest phones and console gaming
platforms. They don't even realize there was an Apple Computers before
the iMac, and they haven't even heard of IBM, nevermind know the
company once made PCs. Most of them that I've encountered don't even
realize that computers once had a command line interface, I can say
that from the experience of demoing a PDP-11 to a group of high school
technology students (!) about two years ago.
Cheers,
Christian
2:13 p.m.
New subject: "The History of Early Computing Machines"
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Murray McCullough wrote:
It seems early history isn?t popular?anything before
the Apple 1 or
IBM PC is just not on the radar of computer or computer-like users
today.
Murray McCullough. Computer historian
I agree completely with Murray. Well said.
Amateur "History" of computers has become a formula:
A: Pre-historic: There were once big machines with punch cards and vacuum
tubes
"then came Altair/Imsai" to conclude the fossil record.
B: Apple: Jobs and Wozniak invented computers
C: IBM: "IBM tried to compete with Apple" ("competing with IBM is the
mouse running up the elephant's leg with intent to rape"), "Bill Gates
invented computer software"/"OS"
[CP/M, TRS-80, Pet no longer exist[ed] for anybody who wasn't THERE -
cf. "Pirates Of Silicon Valley", wherein Bill Gates COLD CALLS IBM to
interest them in an OS!]
D: First PRACTICAL computer: Whatever the author first started with.
For a long time, the most common for that was the IBM AT, now becoming Mac.
Every story-teller acknowledges that there EXISTED at least one layer
before they got involved, although it was obviously NOT as important,
since it wasn't "PRACTICAL" yet.
E: Mac
Each history varies slightly, mostly in section D
As younger and younger people, who try to call themselves "historians",
tell the story, D becomes E, and B and C fade into the
obscure "prehistoric" of A.
But, we are reaching the end of "personal computers"! The CLOuD may,
alas, be the future, (cf. Oracle/Microsoft in current news) Although they
will never be called "terminals" ever again, that will be the function of
what will be on every desk. (What is a "client" (thin, thick, obese), if
not a "terminal"?) "Personal Computer" wrested some market share
away
from "mainframe/terminal"; now
"client/server" is taking it back.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:20 p.m.
New subject: "The History of Early Computing Machines"
On 25 Jun 2013, at 14:13, "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Murray McCullough wrote:
It goes much more in depth than that...modern computer historians SUCK.
It seems early history isn?t popular?anything
before the Apple 1 or
IBM PC is just not on the radar of computer or computer-like users
today.
Murray McCullough. Computer historian
I agree completely with Murray. Well said.
Amateur "History" of computers has become a formula:
A: Pre-historic: There were once big machines with punch cards and vacuum
tubes
"then came Altair/Imsai" to conclude the fossil record.
B: Apple: Jobs and Wozniak invented computers
Nope! IBM, DEC, Bell Labs and others did. ;)
C: IBM: "IBM tried to compete with Apple" ("competing with IBM is the
mouse running up the elephant's leg with intent to rape"), "Bill Gates
invented computer software"/"OS"
[CP/M, TRS-80, Pet no longer exist[ed] for anybody who wasn't THERE -
cf. "Pirates Of Silicon Valley", wherein Bill Gates COLD CALLS IBM to
interest them in an OS!]
Is Pirates worth watching? (if not, is it worth watching in the sent of Electric Dreams as
it?s so bad you half to watch it?)
D: First PRACTICAL computer: Whatever the author first started with.
For a long time, the most common for that was the IBM AT, now becoming Mac.
Every story-teller acknowledges that there EXISTED at least one layer
before they got involved, although it was obviously NOT as important,
since it wasn't "PRACTICAL" yet.
The first practical computer was...the IBM 7090! ;) (It might be a different one
actually...I forget my IBM systems)
E: Mac
Each history varies slightly, mostly in section D
As younger and younger people, who try to call themselves "historians",
tell the story, D becomes E, and B and C fade into the
obscure "prehistoric" of A.
But, we are reaching the end of "personal computers"! The CLOuD may,
alas, be the future, (cf. Oracle/Microsoft in current news) Although they
will never be called "terminals" ever again, that will be the function of
what will be on every desk. (What is a "client" (thin, thick, obese), if
not a "terminal"?) "Personal Computer" wrested some market share
away
from "mainframe/terminal"; now "client/server" is taking it back.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
4:16 p.m.
New subject: "The History of Early Computing Machines"
> cf. "Pirates Of Silicon Valley",
wherein Bill Gates COLD CALLS IBM to
> interest them in an OS!]
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Is Pirates worth watching? (if not, is it worth
watching in the sent of
Electric Dreams as it?s so bad you half to watch it?)
"First came Apple, and then IBM tried to compete with them, and Bill Gates
invented software"
No mention of minis, but maybe it was never intended to be anything
but micros; no existence of CP/M, TRS80, Commodore, etc.
It has Bill Gates COLD CALLING IBM to tell them what an OS is and that
they should have one! (There are many disputes of details, but it IS well
established that IBM went to Microsoft for BASIC, and even billg sent them
to DRI for CP/M, major culture clash at DRI, followed by Microsoft for the
OS.)
OTOH, some people think that the movie got some of the personalities
fairly close.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
4:33 p.m.
New subject: "The History of Early Computing Machines"
On 25 Jun 2013, at 16:16, "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:
No minis or CP/M? That?s just bad!
>
> cf. "Pirates Of Silicon Valley", wherein Bill Gates COLD CALLS IBM to
> interest them in an OS!]
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013, Cory Smelosky wrote:
Is Pirates worth watching? (if not, is it worth
watching in the sent of
Electric Dreams as it?s so bad you half to watch it?)
"First came Apple, and then IBM tried to compete with them, and Bill Gates
invented software"
No mention of minis, but maybe it was never intended to be anything
but micros; no existence of CP/M, TRS80, Commodore, etc.
It has Bill Gates COLD CALLING IBM to tell them what an OS is and that
they should have one! (There are many disputes of details, but it IS well
established that IBM went to Microsoft for BASIC, and even billg sent them
to DRI for CP/M, major culture clash at DRI, followed by Microsoft for the
OS.)
OTOH, some people think that the movie got some of the personalities
fairly close.
That I can believe.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
4:31 p.m.
New subject: "The History of Early Computing Machines"
Although, others existed before, it was the Altair 8800 that really started
the thought in the public's mind of a personal computer.
It was with the help of a magazine but, still, it was the true turning
point. Others, before, could have replaced it but didn't, as the turning point.
The Apple 1 would have been lost in the bushes had they not started
the Apple II. Considering the Apple 1 was not a turning point other
than it gave Jobs and Woz the ability to produce the Apple II.
The Apple II was another turning point but not the beginning of the
personal computer.
It always astounded me that the crappy OSs that Apple had for the
II series was excepted by the users.
Dwight
4045
days inactive
4045
days old
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b4＠gewt.net -
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