Flat panel display rot - "tunnel vision" in electroluminescent and other displays- bad seals.
20 Jul
2016
20 Jul
'16
3:52 p.m.
I have a few GRiD compass systems and some are suffering from massively
decreased contrast on the edges of the displays:
[See the system on the left]
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIGGzUzgat-/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
[Or this one:]
http://www.ripstick.com/USCM/images/Grid_Compass_1101_Laptop_in_Box_002.jpg
Meanwhile, other EL systems I have- like my HP integral PC- haven't
succumbed to this.
I have seen similar issues on amLCD displays in my Tadpole, Toshiba and
other machines, so this is something we all may have to confront.
-------
I was wondering if the folks here had theories?
I'm thinking moisture (or air) might be leaking in from the edges of the
glass panes, perhaps from a compromised seal- sorry for the silly picture
but you can see the composition of the display here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/6BXaLBtSzd/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
Does anyone know how one might prevent this from progressing- storage tips?
Could it be reversed?
Better yet, does anyone have ideas on how to rapidly dehydrate the display?
Perhaps there is even a way to re-seal them.
I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may eventually
succumb to this.
Perhaps it is just oxidation and not moisture, but I'd love to hear any
theories.
Thanks,
- Ian
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
20 Jul
20 Jul
3:56 p.m.
On Jul 20, 2016, at 3:52 PM, Ian Finder <ian.finder
at gmail.com> wrote:
...
Does anyone know how one might prevent this from progressing- storage tips?
Could it be reversed?
Better yet, does anyone have ideas on how to rapidly dehydrate the display?
Perhaps there is even a way to re-seal them.
I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may eventually
succumb to this.
I don't know how to address that problem. But FWIW, it doesn't happen to all
two-glass pane displays; my 1970s era PLATO terminal (with the orange plasma panel) still
works perfectly.
paul
4:02 p.m.
Yes, but as I mentioned:
"> I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may
eventually
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
succumb to this."
I have plenty of good displays. It seems like it may happen eventually.
Also aren't plasmas pressurized, unlike LCD and EL?
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net>
wrote:
On Jul 20, 2016, at 3:52 PM, Ian Finder
<ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
...
Does anyone know how one might prevent this from progressing- storage
tips?
Could it be reversed?
Better yet, does anyone have ideas on how to rapidly dehydrate the
display?
Perhaps there is even a way to re-seal them.
I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may
eventually
succumb to this.
I don't know how to address that problem. But FWIW, it doesn't happen to
all two-glass pane displays; my 1970s era PLATO terminal (with the orange
plasma panel) still works perfectly.
paul
4:09 p.m.
On Jul 20, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Ian Finder <ian.finder
at gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, but as I mentioned:
"> I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may
eventually
They aren't vacuum, but close. I don't know what the pressure is, but it's
way below outside air pressure.
paul
succumb to this."
I have plenty of good displays. It seems like it may happen eventually.
Also aren't plasmas pressurized, unlike LCD and EL? 
4:15 p.m.
Better yet,
does anyone have ideas on how to rapidly dehydrate the display?
Perhaps there is even a way to re-seal them.
I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may eventually
succumb to this.
I don't know how to address that problem. But FWIW, it doesn't happen to
all two-glass pane displays; my 1970s era PLATO terminal (with the orange
plasma panel) still works perfectly.
4:23 p.m.
I'm happy for everyone with great displays, but I have never seen a repro
on plasma because they are pressurized. And I've seen plenty of EL displays
that still look great... So far.
So can we stay on topic a little :)
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com>
wrote:
My Solbourne S3000 (also flaring orange gas plasma) looks great too, ca.
1991.
--
------------------------------------ personal:
http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com *
ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripedes
----------------
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
> Better
yet, does anyone have ideas on how to rapidly dehydrate the
display?
> Perhaps there is even a way to re-seal
them.
>
> I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may
eventually
succumb
to this.
I don't know how to address that problem. But FWIW, it doesn't happen to
all two-glass pane displays; my 1970s era PLATO terminal (with the orange
plasma panel) still works perfectly.
4:28 p.m.
If anyone has a plasma that *DOES* repro, that would be very interesting,
but I expect the technology is different enough that that won't happen due
to the pressurization.
6:32 p.m.
On 2016-Jul-20, at 12:52 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
I have a few GRiD compass systems and some are
suffering from massively
decreased contrast on the edges of the displays:
[See the system on the left]
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIGGzUzgat-/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
[Or this one:]
http://www.ripstick.com/USCM/images/Grid_Compass_1101_Laptop_in_Box_002.jpg
Meanwhile, other EL systems I have- like my HP integral PC- haven't
succumbed to this.
I have seen similar issues on amLCD displays in my Tadpole, Toshiba and
other machines, so this is something we all may have to confront.
-------
I was wondering if the folks here had theories?
I'm thinking moisture (or air) might be leaking in from the edges of the
glass panes, perhaps from a compromised seal- sorry for the silly picture
but you can see the composition of the display here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/6BXaLBtSzd/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
Does anyone know how one might prevent this from progressing- storage tips?
Could it be reversed?
Better yet, does anyone have ideas on how to rapidly dehydrate the display?
Perhaps there is even a way to re-seal them.
I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may eventually
succumb to this.
Perhaps it is just oxidation and not moisture, but I'd love to hear any
theories.
Are you convinced this is a panel problem rather than a driver electronics problem?
In one picture it looks like the sort of thing that happens when you have to turn up the
brightness (for some types of display), resulting in partial illumination in other areas
of the screen.
I've never had opportunity to repair or work on EL flat-panel displays, I'm not
familiar with the driving techniques and requirements, so this is just a query/guess. (I
see it's an X/Y matrix drive scheme, but the voltages & timing & phasing I
don't know about.)
7:13 p.m.
No, I'm not convinced the EL repro isn't a driver electronics issue.
I'm just a little confused about why the issue congregates at the edges of
the displays. Any ideas why that might be?
I may try swapping the panels around this evening if I am feeling brave.
On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca> wrote:
On 2016-Jul-20, at 12:52 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
I have a few GRiD compass systems and some are
suffering from massively
decreased contrast on the edges of the displays:
[See the system on the left]
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIGGzUzgat-/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
[Or this one:]
http://www.ripstick.com/USCM/images/Grid_Compass_1101_Laptop_in_Box_002.jpg
Meanwhile, other EL systems I have- like my HP integral PC- haven't
succumbed to this.
I have seen similar issues on amLCD displays in my Tadpole, Toshiba and
other machines, so this is something we all may have to confront.
-------
I was wondering if the folks here had theories?
I'm thinking moisture (or air) might be leaking in from the edges of the
glass panes, perhaps from a compromised seal- sorry for the silly picture
but you can see the composition of the display here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/6BXaLBtSzd/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
Does anyone know how one might prevent this from progressing- storage
tips?
Could it be reversed?
Better yet, does anyone have ideas on how to rapidly dehydrate the
display?
Perhaps there is even a way to re-seal them.
I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may
eventually
succumb to this.
Perhaps it is just oxidation and not moisture, but I'd love to hear any
theories.
Are you convinced this is a panel problem rather than a driver electronics
problem?
In one picture it looks like the sort of thing that happens when you have
to turn up the brightness (for some types of display), resulting in partial
illumination in other areas of the screen.
I've never had opportunity to repair or work on EL flat-panel displays,
I'm not familiar with the driving techniques and requirements, so this is
just a query/guess. (I see it's an X/Y matrix drive scheme, but the
voltages & timing & phasing I don't know about.)
7:35 p.m.
Hmm. I suppose recapping is a logical next step. There are also four
adjustable inductors and a single trimpot inside the display assembly.
I haven't been able to find a single clue about what they do.
On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Ian Finder <ian.finder at gmail.com> wrote:
No, I'm not convinced the EL repro isn't a
driver electronics issue.
I'm just a little confused about why the issue congregates at the edges of
the displays. Any ideas why that might be?
I may try swapping the panels around this evening if I am feeling brave.
On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Brent Hilpert <hilpert at cs.ubc.ca
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hilpert at cs.ubc.ca');>> wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
On 2016-Jul-20, at 12:52 PM, Ian Finder wrote:
--
Ian Finder
(206) 395-MIPS
ian.finder at gmail.com
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ian.finder at gmail.com');>
I have a few GRiD compass systems and some are
suffering from massively
decreased contrast on the edges of the displays:
[See the system on the left]
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIGGzUzgat-/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
[Or this one:]
http://www.ripstick.com/USCM/images/Grid_Compass_1101_Laptop_in_Box_002.jpg
Meanwhile, other EL systems I have- like my HP integral PC- haven't
succumbed to this.
I have seen similar issues on amLCD displays in my Tadpole, Toshiba and
other machines, so this is something we all may have to confront.
-------
I was wondering if the folks here had theories?
I'm thinking moisture (or air) might be leaking in from the edges of the
glass panes, perhaps from a compromised seal- sorry for the silly
picture
but you can see the composition of the display
here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/6BXaLBtSzd/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n
Does anyone know how one might prevent this from progressing- storage
tips?
Could it be reversed?
Better yet, does anyone have ideas on how to rapidly dehydrate the
display?
Perhaps there is even a way to re-seal them.
I think all two-glass-pane displays that don't have a vacuum may
eventually
succumb to this.
Perhaps it is just oxidation and not moisture, but I'd love to hear any
theories.
Are you convinced this is a panel problem rather than a driver
electronics problem?
In one picture it looks like the sort of thing that happens when you have
to turn up the brightness (for some types of display), resulting in partial
illumination in other areas of the screen.
I've never had opportunity to repair or work on EL flat-panel displays,
I'm not familiar with the driving techniques and requirements, so this is
just a query/guess. (I see it's an X/Y matrix drive scheme, but the
voltages & timing & phasing I don't know about.)
2919
days inactive
2919
days old
9 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
ian.finder＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
spectre＠floodgap.com