18 Dec
2004
18 Dec
'04
3:11 a.m.
IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting together. Thanks
18 Dec
18 Dec
3:22 a.m.
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:11:26 -0600
"Keys" <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> wrote:
IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are
putting together. Thanks
Smallest in size, or in capacity? My first hard drive was a Shugart 5 meg drive, MFM
encoding. Was there ever a smaller hard drive by capacity for the 'PeeCee' or
otherwise? 5 megs was a LOT of space at the time.
Physically smallest, wasn't there a drive called the 'matchbox' drive?
Smallest I've owned was a little PCMCIA hard drive, which isn't as small as the
'matchbox' drive.
3:31 a.m.
Looking for the smallest in physical size and not compact flash drives. The
matchbox sounds like the one I may be looking for.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Stevens" <chenmel(a)earthlink.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:11:26 -0600
"Keys" <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> wrote:
IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we
are putting together.
Thanks
Smallest in size, or in capacity? My first hard drive was a Shugart 5 meg
drive, MFM encoding. Was there ever a smaller hard drive by capacity for
the 'PeeCee' or otherwise? 5 megs was a LOT of space at the time.
Physically smallest, wasn't there a drive called the 'matchbox' drive?
Smallest I've owned was a little PCMCIA hard drive, which isn't as small
as the 'matchbox' drive.
3:43 a.m.
Looking for the smallest in physical size and not
compact flash
drives. The matchbox sounds like the one I may be looking for.
I think they were used in the Dauphin DTR-1's. The capacity is
something like 40Mb.
Zane
--
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
4:04 a.m.
Smallest in size, or in capacity? My first hard drive
was a
Shugart 5 meg drive, MFM encoding. Was there ever a smaller hard
drive by capacity for the 'PeeCee' or otherwise? 5 megs was a
LOT of space at the time.
Probably nothing of smaller capacity in modern days, but much smaller ones
used to exist .... ask PDP8 people about the df32 disk :-)
My experience of early hard disks was with the ICT EDS-4 which stored 4M
6-bit characters (ie about 3 MB) - the (exchangeable) disk pack was close to
the size of a complete PC ... the drives were referred to as "washing
machines" because of their size and appearance.
(and the controller was about the same size also).
The IBM equivalent was, I think, the 1311 ... the 2311 being equivalent to
the ICT EDS-8 (which had twice as many tracks as the eds4 but was otherwise
identical)
Then our PDP11 had an RK05 which was of similar capacity but somewhat more
compact.
All these are pre "Winchester" (3030) technology
Andy
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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4:43 a.m.
>>>> "Andy" == Andy Holt
<andyh(a)andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
> Smallest in size, or in capacity? My first hard
drive was a
> Shugart 5 meg drive, MFM encoding. Was there ever a smaller hard
> drive by capacity for the 'PeeCee' or otherwise? 5 megs was a LOT
> of space at the time.
>
Andy> Probably nothing of smaller capacity in modern days, but much
Andy> smaller ones used to exist .... ask PDP8 people about the df32
Andy> disk :-)
...or RC64, on a PDP11... I had RT11 on one of those.
Andy> My experience of early hard disks was with the ICT EDS-4 which
Andy> stored 4M 6-bit characters (ie about 3 MB) - the (exchangeable)
Andy> disk pack was close to the size of a complete PC ... the drives
Andy> were referred to as "washing machines" because of their size
Andy> and appearance. (and the controller was about the same size
Andy> also). The IBM equivalent was, I think, the 1311 ... the 2311
Andy> being equivalent to the ICT EDS-8 (which had twice as many
Andy> tracks as the eds4 but was otherwise identical)
1311, indeed. Used one on a 1620. 100 cylinders, 20 sectors per
track I think, 100 digits per sector. The head actuator was
hydraulic, and once sprang a leak, spraying hydraulic fluid all over
the system pack...
Andy> Then our PDP11 had an RK05 which was of similar capacity but
Andy> somewhat more compact.
Much higher... 2.4 MB on just one platter.
paul
20 Dec
20 Dec
1:12 a.m.
On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:48 -0500, William Donzelli wrote:
Yeah,
but the engineering nickname for the first voice-coil drive was
30/30 because there were two platters, 30MB each. someone called it the
Winchester, and the name stuck - however, the first IBM Winchester might
have been the 3340.
--
Tore S Bekkedal <toresbe(a)ifi.uio.no>
All these are
pre "Winchester" (3030) technology
Winchester was the 3340.
1:19 a.m.
On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:48 -0500, William Donzelli
wrote:
Yeah, but the engineering nickname for the first voice-coil drive was
30/30 because there were two platters, 30MB each. someone called it the
Winchester, and the name stuck - however, the first IBM Winchester might
have been the 3340.
... and the name may also have something to do with the device
being
developed at IBM's Hursley laboratory which is just outside Winchester in
England.
Andy
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.5.4 - Release Date: 15/12/04
All these
are pre "Winchester" (3030) technology
Winchester was the 3340. 
1:31 a.m.
On Mon, 2004-12-20 at 16:12 +0100, Tore S Bekkedal wrote:
On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 16:48 -0500, William Donzelli
wrote:
Yeah, but the engineering nickname for the first voice-coil drive was
30/30 because there were two platters, 30MB each. someone called it the
Winchester, and the name stuck - however, the first IBM Winchester might
have been the 3340.
There was a discussion on a local group about the origin of the name
Winchester lately; one school of thought bringing up the often repeated
tale of the Winchester rifle, but another one interestingly mentioning
key technology for the drives that was developed at IBM's R&D outfit
near to Winchester here in the UK (actually at Hursley).
Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove
things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. Most books
within the last 15 years or so probably base the origin on the rifle,
but that may be down to that being the oft-repeated folklore. The link
to Winchester in the UK was an interesting one though.
cheers
Jules
All these
are pre "Winchester" (3030) technology
Winchester was the 3340. 
2:49 a.m.
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote:
There was a discussion on a local group about the
origin of the name
Winchester lately; one school of thought bringing up the often repeated
tale of the Winchester rifle, but another one interestingly mentioning
key technology for the drives that was developed at IBM's R&D outfit
near to Winchester here in the UK (actually at Hursley).
Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove
things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. Most books
within the last 15 years or so probably base the origin on the rifle,
but that may be down to that being the oft-repeated folklore. The link
to Winchester in the UK was an interesting one though.
Maybe it was both: the 30/30 evoked the name of the rifle, which also
happened to be the name of a nearby locale, and the naming was obvious
thenceforth.
Just a guess :)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
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7:15 a.m.
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Jules Richardson wrote:
This is what back copies of DATAMATION and the like are for!
There was a discussion on a local group about the
origin of the name
Winchester lately; one school of thought bringing up the often repeated
tale of the Winchester rifle, but another one interestingly mentioning
key technology for the drives that was developed at IBM's R&D outfit
near to Winchester here in the UK (actually at Hursley).
Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove
things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. Most books
within the last 15 years or so probably base the origin on the rifle,
but that may be down to that being the oft-repeated folklore. The link
to Winchester in the UK was an interesting one though.
cheers
Jules
1:25 p.m.
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote:
This is what back copies of DATAMATION and the like
are for!
I finally found a stash of Datamation (I currently only have two issues
total). The bad news is that many are water-damaged :(
Datamation has been the hardest magazine for me to find.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
1:51 p.m.
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:00 -0800 (PST)
Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote:
I wince when I think of the fact that my father (retired, 27 years at IBM) threw out a
then-complete set of Datamation going all the way back in the early 80's.
-Scott
This is what back copies of DATAMATION and the
like are for!
I finally found a stash of Datamation (I currently only have two issues
total). The bad news is that many are water-damaged :(
Datamation has been the hardest magazine for me to find.
22 Dec
22 Dec
7:58 a.m.
I lost a couple years worth of then to water damage too. If I ever locate
more I will contact you about any extra.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Stevens" <sastevens(a)earthlink.net>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:25:00 -0800 (PST)
Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)siconic.com> wrote:
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004, Tom Jennings wrote:
I wince when I think of the fact that my father (retired, 27 years at IBM)
threw out a then-complete set of Datamation going all the way back in the
early 80's.
-Scott
This is what back copies of DATAMATION and the
like are for!
I finally found a stash of Datamation (I currently only have two issues
total). The bad news is that many are water-damaged :(
Datamation has been the hardest magazine for me to find.
20 Dec
20 Dec
8:15 a.m.
Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily
prove or disprove
things one way or the other as to the origins of the name.
The "more or less" official history book (the MIT press ones) have it as
the rifle story. My copy isn't handy right now.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
11:31 p.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
I thought it was named after a street in the area - Winchester Blvd?
That's was I was always told - first sealed hda + media, named after
street where lab was located. There is a Winchester Blvd in San Jose.
but then, I believe a lot of stuff which is not true :-)
-brad
Neither group
seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove
things one way or the other as to the origins of the name.
The "more or less" official history book (the MIT press ones) have it as
the rifle story. My copy isn't handy right now. 
5 Jan
5 Jan
12:19 p.m.
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:31:19 +0000, Jules Richardson
There was a discussion on a local group about the
origin of the name
Winchester...
Neither group seemed to be able to satisfactorily prove or disprove
things one way or the other as to the origins of the name. Most books
within the last 15 years or so probably base the origin on the rifle,
but that may be down to that being the oft-repeated folklore.
There was an issue of "Scientific American" a number of years ago,
1984 perhaps? It had a cover article on storage technology. It may
have been where I first heard of thin film heads (as opposed to
standard coiled wire ones) as an upcoming technology. I am sure they
go over the history of drive technology at some point in the article,
and I'm pretty sure they mention Winchesters and rifles. True, it's
not a 1960s reference, but it's 20 years closer to the source than we
are now. If anyone has that particular issue, it might be worth
digging out.
-ethan
20 Dec
20 Dec
8:20 a.m.
Yeah, but the engineering nickname for the first
voice-coil drive was
30/30 because there were two platters, 30MB each. someone called it the
Winchester, and the name stuck - however, the first IBM Winchester might
have been the 3340.
It was more than just the nickname - it was the project name. 3340 was
Winchester, as 3330 was Merlin.
I would like to get some junk 3348 datapacks for the 3340. Crashed is OK -
I need one to rebuild and check the load mechanism in a 3340. I could also
use 3330 docs, too.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
5 Jan
5 Jan
12:31 p.m.
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:22:04 -0500, Scott Stevens <chenmel(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
Physically smallest, wasn't there a drive called
the 'matchbox' drive? Smallest I've owned was a little PCMCIA hard drive,
which isn't as small as the 'matchbox' drive.
OK... a google image search on "Kittyhawk disk" turns up two hits...
Page at: http://www.drchaos.net/drchaos/Conf/Kitty/kitty.html
Picture at: http://www.drchaos.net/drchaos/Conf/Kitty/disk1.jpg
and: http://www.drchaos.net/drchaos/Conf/Kitty/disk2.jpg
With another one here: http://www.palmtoppaper.com/ptphtml/4/ptp400c2.htm
I can't verify that's the same thing as what I have, since mine still
has the lid on, but it looks reasonable. The article mentions 2" as a
dimension, but my recollection is that the Kittyhawk platter _is_
1.3"... the case is probably 2" wide, then. It certainly is on the
order of 3" long (however wide the 44 pin connector is, plus a
fraction)
They appear to have been manufactured from 1993 to 1994.
-ethan
2:32 p.m.
At 08:31 PM 1/5/2005, you wrote:
OK... a google image search on "Kittyhawk
disk" turns up two hits...
They appear to have been manufactured from 1993 to 1994.
Coincidentally, today I stumbled on a reference in an email I sent to
friends in March 1998:
"Check out the (perhaps) world's smallest mechanical hard drive,
soon to be a classic, about the size of the smallest Post-Its,
just $7.95 and 20 megs, at <http://www.allelec.com/#kittyhawk> ."
It must've been mentioned on Slashdot.
- John
3:03 p.m.
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 22:32:27 -0600, John Foust <jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
At 08:31 PM 1/5/2005, you wrote:
Coincidentally, today I stumbled on a reference in an email I sent to
friends in March 1998:
"Check out the (perhaps) world's smallest mechanical hard drive,
soon to be a classic, about the size of the smallest Post-Its,
just $7.95 and 20 megs, at <http://www.allelec.com/#kittyhawk> ."
It must've been mentioned on Slashdot.
I don't remember where I heard about it, but I _did_ buy a couple for
$7.95, and I have bought several things over the years from All Elec.
-ethan
8:43 p.m.
I forget if this came up the first time around for the discussion, but, FYI:
Toshiba's got a .85-inch drive (even smaller than the 1-inch microdrive from
Hitachi/IBM) -- http://boingboing.net/2004/03/17/worlds_smallest_hard.html
--- Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 22:32:27 -0600, John Foust
<jfoust(a)threedee.com> wrote:
=====
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At 08:31 PM 1/5/2005, you wrote:
Coincidentally, today I stumbled on a reference in an email I sent to
friends in March 1998:
"Check out the (perhaps) world's smallest mechanical hard drive,
soon to be a classic, about the size of the smallest Post-Its,
just $7.95 and 20 megs, at <http://www.allelec.com/#kittyhawk> ."
It must've been mentioned on Slashdot.
I don't remember where I heard about it, but I _did_ buy a couple for
$7.95, and I have bought several things over the years from All Elec.
-ethan
12:34 p.m.
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 12:22:04 -0500, Scott Stevens <chenmel(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
wasn't there a drive called the 'matchbox'
drive?
OK... found references to dimensions...
http://www.palmtoppaper.com/ptphtml/4/ptp40040.htm
0.4" x 2" x 1.44", 18ms seek, 1oz weight
-ethan
3:33 a.m.
Keys wrote:
IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are
putting together.
Thanks
I'm assuming physical size here.
I have an IBM CompactFlash drive, which is the same size as a Type II CF
card.
IBM sold that business to Toshiba, as I recall, but I believe IBM developed.
I also faintly remember a tiny drive made as a proof of concept by
Citizen or some watch compny called Tiger or similar. It used watch
parts, as I recall.
Jim
--
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations
brain(a)jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!
4:38 a.m.
>>>> "Keys" == Keys
<jrkeys(a)concentric.net> writes:
Keys> IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are putting
Keys> together.
IBM doesn't make disk drives anymore.
It may be Hitachi (who bought IBM's disk business). Failing that,
Toshiba. See EE Times, one of the past few weeks, they had a picture
of a drive balanced on a fingertip. I think the thing was about 0.8
inches wide...
paul
8:30 a.m.
The .85 is obviosly smaller, but Hitachi's is at 4GB already.
Officially it's "Hitachi Global Storage Technologies" which is still
partially
owned by IBM, and which is based in an old IBM building with mostly IBM-derived
employees in San Jose.
FYI, I have very good contacts in HGST's media department, so if anyone has
further questions about it, then contact me off-list and I'll publish the
replies in an upcoming issue of the Computer Collector Newsletter.
--- Keys <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> wrote:
IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are
putting together. Thanks
=====
Tell your friends about the Computer Collector Newsletter!
-- It's free and we'll never send spam or share your email address
-- Publishing every Monday(-ish), ask about writing for us
-- Mainframes to videogames, hardware and software, we cover it all
Visit our web site for lots of extra content: http://news.computercollector.com
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7:20 a.m.
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:44:03 -0500
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
From: "Joe R." <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Who Made/Makes the World Smallest Harddrive
Reply-to: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
HP built some 1.3" drives. They were the
Kittyhawk series.
I remember now, That mechanicals was manufactured by citizen who
makes watches and yes, Citizen does use watch parts. I know what
parts especially screws and how parts looks since I worked with them
before. It is citizen's for sure on parts. Electricals by HP. Ah
that was old days!
Soon, the tiny HD by hitachi will come out with dizzying 80GB.
Oh, the interface is laptop IDE pinout.
Cheers,
Wizard
Joe
5 Jan
5 Jan
12:12 p.m.
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:44:03 -0500, Joe R. <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com> wrote:
HP built some 1.3" drives. They were the
Kittyhawk series.
I have a couple of these - they are physically the length of a
standard 44-pin laptop IDE connector and about 1/2 as wide. Mine are
20MB, there was also a 40MB version.
In terms of size and capacity, the Kittyhawks hold no records
presently, but for a time, they were the smallest drives made, and
gave acceptable capacity for their volume. ISTR they were intended
for palmtop-like devices and similar things. Mine is attached to a
C-64 with an IDE interface.
In terms of PC technology, 5MB would be the lowest capacity I am aware
of (ST-506), and CF 'microdrives' would be the smallest physical size.
If the boundaries extend to disks of all ages, I am unaware of any
disk with less capacity than the DF-32 (as someone else mentioned) -
20 fixed heads (16 data, 4 timing including spares) for 32768 words of
12 bits (plus parity)... yes... a 32K disk. Several list members here
have one or more.
-ethan
20 Dec
20 Dec
2:38 p.m.
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:11:26 -0600, Keys <jrkeys(a)concentric.net> wrote:
IS it IBM? I need one for a museum display we are
putting together. Thanks
The physically smallest hard disk drive of which I am aware is the
Cornice Storage Element, available from 40MB up to a gigabyte or so
now. The unit is approximately 1" (one inch) square in its casing.
http://www.corniceco.com/products/
--
Liam Proven
Home: http://welcome.to/liamsweb * Blog: http://lproven.livejournal.com
AOL, Yahoo UK: liamproven * ICQ: 73187508 * MSN: lproven(a)hotmail.com
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34 comments
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participants (22)
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allain＠panix.com -
andyh＠andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
brad＠heeltoe.com -
brain＠jbrain.com -
chenmel＠earthlink.net -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
jrkeys＠concentric.net -
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lproven＠gmail.com -
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rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
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tomj＠wps.com -
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vcf＠siconic.com