10 Oct
2001
10 Oct
'01
6:58 a.m.
Sounds a lot like a box I've been threatening to build for a while.
On the Ethernet side, I'd not worry about specific 10bT and ThickNet
segments. Instead, I'd run a single 10b2 (ThinNet) segment and get a 10bT
hub with a BNC uplink. This also had the advantage of saving you a slot in
the box. Don't worry about ThickNet, just pick up a couple of spare 10bT or
10b2 tranceivers for the odd box with an AUI port.
Since you've got LocalTalk running to the box, then I'd also run MacGate
which would let you run MacIP (IP over LocalTalk).
As for other fun topologies, you already mentioned TokenRing. My personal
choice would be to also add HomePNA (Ethernet over phonelines). The 1MB
HomePNA 1.0 cards (the only ones supported by Linux)are very cheap these
days. I picked up a pair from Computer Geeks (http://www.compgeeks.com) for
something like $12. Now if I could just find a cheap Ethernet/HomePNA bridge
for the Nubus Mac in the spare bedroom...
<<<John>>>
-----Original Message-----
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:50:01 -0500
From: Tarsi <tarsi(a)binhost.com>
Subject: ArcNet and the Pursuit of Multiple Topologies
Dear all,
I've decided that one of my goals is to run every networking topology
possible in my house, regardless if I actually NEED to run them or not. :)
My plan is to place 1 linux box running a card from each topology in it and
use that to bridge all (or almost all) topologies.
I currently have running 10bT ethernet, 10b2 ethernet, Localtalk over
PhoneNET and the beginnings of Arcnet.
In light of such, I have a series of questions:
1) Who knows some stuff about ArcNet? I've gotten 4 cards (8-bit ISA) and
a
16-port active hub. I've read somewhere that cards are either hubbable or
not. Any other info on that?
2) Anyone have any (I think it is) 93ohm coax arcnet patch cables that they
want to get rid of?
3) Anyone got good resources on ThickNET? (10b5 I think it is?) I know it
was run back in the day, and I know some precursory things about it (the
funky vampire taps, etc.) Anyone have either resources or hardware on this
topology that they'd like to share/sell/etc? :)
4) Any other interesting topologies I should try? I have plans to do:
Arcnet, FDDI, Token ring, Localtalk, 10b2, 10b5, 10bT, 10bTX, 10bFiber, and
(eventually) 802.11b wireless.
10 Oct
10 Oct
7:58 a.m.
Since you've got LocalTalk running to the box, then
I'd also run MacGate
which would let you run MacIP (IP over LocalTalk).
Good page for MacGate looks like
http://www.linux-sna.org/software2/Appletalk/index.html
As for other fun topologies, you already mentioned
TokenRing. My personal
choice would be to also add HomePNA (Ethernet over phonelines). The 1MB
HomePNA 1.0 cards (the only ones supported by Linux)are very cheap these
days. I picked up a pair from Computer Geeks (http://www.compgeeks.com) for
something like $12. Now if I could just find a cheap Ethernet/HomePNA bridge
for the Nubus Mac in the spare bedroom...
I was lucky and picked up a couple cards from MicroCenter including the
network/modem gateway card.
12:45 p.m.
Grin, did someone mention Token Ring? One of my favorite toys to play with?
I've often found Token Ring better than EtherNet and AppleTalk.
While on the slew of topics, I must also say that I love SCSI. I used to be
a die-hard IDE fan and then came along a head-to-platter crash. Away went
three term papers. After that, I went to SCSi and haven't had an actual
failure yet (over 4 years, a few of my drives were used and over 9 to 10
years old). Plus, the whole idea of LUNS, ID's and Termination with chains
was more logical and reliable in the long run.
-John Boffemmyer IV
At 03:58 PM 10/10/01, you wrote:
----------------------------------------
Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst
and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies
http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html
---------------------------------------
Since
you've got LocalTalk running to the box, then I'd also run MacGate
which would let you run MacIP (IP over LocalTalk).
Good page for MacGate looks like
http://www.linux-sna.org/software2/Appletalk/index.html
As for other fun topologies, you already mentioned
TokenRing. My personal
choice would be to also add HomePNA (Ethernet over phonelines). The 1MB
HomePNA 1.0 cards (the only ones supported by Linux)are very cheap these
days. I picked up a pair from Computer Geeks (http://www.compgeeks.com) for
something like $12. Now if I could just find a cheap Ethernet/HomePNA bridge
for the Nubus Mac in the spare bedroom...
I was lucky and picked up a couple cards from MicroCenter including the
network/modem gateway card. 
3:01 p.m.
John Boffemmyer IV skrev:
While on the slew of topics, I must also say that I
love SCSI. I used to be
a die-hard IDE fan and then came along a head-to-platter crash. Away went
three term papers. After that, I went to SCSi and haven't had an actual
failure yet (over 4 years, a few of my drives were used and over 9 to 10
years old). Plus, the whole idea of LUNS, ID's and Termination with chains
was more logical and reliable in the long run.
All right, how could one be a "die-hard IDE fan"? Does that interface have any
redeeming qualities whatsoever?
And don't mention price, we've all heard that before, but the difference
wasn't quite as marked before Apple et al left the SCSI market.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to
complain about unstructured programmers.
3:17 p.m.
Heh, I was die-hard in the terms of ease of use and compatibility at the
time. Remember, this was many years ago when I was much younger and dumber
obviously. Since then, I have become wiser and have tried to only use SCSI
when I can.
-John
All right, how could one be a "die-hard IDE
fan"? Does that interface
have any
redeeming qualities whatsoever?
And don't mention price, we've all heard that before, but the difference
wasn't quite as marked before Apple et al left the SCSI market.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to
complain about unstructured programmers.
----------------------------------------
Founder, Lead Writer, Tech Analyst
and Web Designer Boff-Net Technologies
http://boff-net.dhs.org/index.html
---------------------------------------
7:40 p.m.
Heh, I was die-hard in the terms of ease of use and
compatibility at the
time. Remember, this was many years ago when I was much younger and dumber
obviously. Since then, I have become wiser and have tried to only use SCSI
when I can.
Funny I used to be die hard SCSI, but now with ATA 100 IDE raid controllers
cheaper than the difference in cost between IDE and SCSI drives, I just
don't even think about SCSI except for special applications like maybe a
server.
11 Oct
11 Oct
3:07 a.m.
John Boffemmyer IV skrev:
Heh, I was die-hard in the terms of ease of use and
compatibility at the
time. Remember, this was many years ago when I was much younger and dumber
obviously. Since then, I have become wiser and have tried to only use SCSI
when I can.
But in what way is SCSI less compatible or easy to use?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
7:09 a.m.
John Boffemmyer IV skrev:
It is not compatible with my Master Card, fast IDE 40 GB IBM drive = $110,
same thing in SCSI is $250, same thing in 1394 is $200.
Heh, I was die-hard in the terms of ease of use
and compatibility at the
time. Remember, this was many years ago when I was much younger and dumber
obviously. Since then, I have become wiser and have tried to only use SCSI
when I can.
But in what way is SCSI less compatible or easy to use? 
10 Oct
10 Oct
10:05 a.m.
There was another network that completely slipped my
mind. Myrinet. MYRINET!!!!
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, John Ruschmeyer wrote:
Sounds a lot like a box I've been threatening to
build for a while.
On the Ethernet side, I'd not worry about specific 10bT and ThickNet
segments. Instead, I'd run a single 10b2 (ThinNet) segment and get a 10bT
hub with a BNC uplink. This also had the advantage of saving you a slot in
the box. Don't worry about ThickNet, just pick up a couple of spare 10bT or
10b2 tranceivers for the odd box with an AUI port.
Since you've got LocalTalk running to the box, then I'd also run MacGate
which would let you run MacIP (IP over LocalTalk).
As for other fun topologies, you already mentioned TokenRing. My personal
choice would be to also add HomePNA (Ethernet over phonelines). The 1MB
HomePNA 1.0 cards (the only ones supported by Linux)are very cheap these
days. I picked up a pair from Computer Geeks (http://www.compgeeks.com) for
something like $12. Now if I could just find a cheap Ethernet/HomePNA bridge
for the Nubus Mac in the spare bedroom...
<<<John>>>
-----Original Message-----
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:50:01 -0500
From: Tarsi <tarsi(a)binhost.com>
Subject: ArcNet and the Pursuit of Multiple Topologies
Dear all,
I've decided that one of my goals is to run every networking topology
possible in my house, regardless if I actually NEED to run them or not. :)
My plan is to place 1 linux box running a card from each topology in it and
use that to bridge all (or almost all) topologies.
I currently have running 10bT ethernet, 10b2 ethernet, Localtalk over
PhoneNET and the beginnings of Arcnet.
In light of such, I have a series of questions:
1) Who knows some stuff about ArcNet? I've gotten 4 cards (8-bit ISA) and
a
16-port active hub. I've read somewhere that cards are either hubbable or
not. Any other info on that?
2) Anyone have any (I think it is) 93ohm coax arcnet patch cables that they
want to get rid of?
3) Anyone got good resources on ThickNET? (10b5 I think it is?) I know it
was run back in the day, and I know some precursory things about it (the
funky vampire taps, etc.) Anyone have either resources or hardware on this
topology that they'd like to share/sell/etc? :)
4) Any other interesting topologies I should try? I have plans to do:
Arcnet, FDDI, Token ring, Localtalk, 10b2, 10b5, 10bT, 10bTX, 10bFiber, and
(eventually) 802.11b wireless.
11 Oct
11 Oct
8:18 a.m.
Any one ever use a network called KanNet (I think that's how it was spelled). It was
around in the mid 80's. The early ones I used actually utilized both a host adapter
and an external box (the network cabling attached via the boxes). The boxes were large
(say 12"x12"x3") and the topology was a
ring running on coax.
George
On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:05:56 -0400 (EDT), One Without Reason wrote:
There was another network that completely slipped my
mind. Myrinet. MYRINET!!!!
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 10 Oct 2001, John Ruschmeyer wrote:
Sounds a lot like a box I've been threatening
to build for a while.
On the Ethernet side, I'd not worry about specific 10bT and ThickNet
segments. Instead, I'd run a single 10b2 (ThinNet) segment and get a 10bT
hub with a BNC uplink. This also had the advantage of saving you a slot in
the box. Don't worry about ThickNet, just pick up a couple of spare 10bT or
10b2 tranceivers for the odd box with an AUI port.
Since you've got LocalTalk running to the box, then I'd also run MacGate
which would let you run MacIP (IP over LocalTalk).
As for other fun topologies, you already mentioned TokenRing. My personal
choice would be to also add HomePNA (Ethernet over phonelines). The 1MB
HomePNA 1.0 cards (the only ones supported by Linux)are very cheap these
days. I picked up a pair from Computer Geeks (http://www.compgeeks.com) for
something like $12. Now if I could just find a cheap Ethernet/HomePNA bridge
for the Nubus Mac in the spare bedroom...
<<<John>>>
-----Original Message-----
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:50:01 -0500
From: Tarsi <tarsi(a)binhost.com>
Subject: ArcNet and the Pursuit of Multiple Topologies
Dear all,
I've decided that one of my goals is to run every networking topology
possible in my house, regardless if I actually NEED to run them or not. :)
My plan is to place 1 linux box running a card from each topology in it and
use that to bridge all (or almost all) topologies.
I currently have running 10bT ethernet, 10b2 ethernet, Localtalk over
PhoneNET and the beginnings of Arcnet.
In light of such, I have a series of questions:
1) Who knows some stuff about ArcNet? I've gotten 4 cards (8-bit ISA) and
a
16-port active hub. I've read somewhere that cards are either hubbable or
not. Any other info on that?
2) Anyone have any (I think it is) 93ohm coax arcnet patch cables that they
want to get rid of?
3) Anyone got good resources on ThickNET? (10b5 I think it is?) I know it
was run back in the day, and I know some precursory things about it (the
funky vampire taps, etc.) Anyone have either resources or hardware on this
topology that they'd like to share/sell/etc? :)
4) Any other interesting topologies I should try? I have plans to do:
Arcnet, FDDI, Token ring, Localtalk, 10b2, 10b5, 10bT, 10bTX, 10bFiber, and
(eventually) 802.11b wireless.
12 Oct
12 Oct
8:46 a.m.
On the Ethernet side, I'd not worry about specific
10bT and ThickNet
segments. Instead, I'd run a single 10b2 (ThinNet) segment and get a 10bT
hub with a BNC uplink. This also had the advantage of saving you a slot in
the box. Don't worry about ThickNet, just pick up a couple of spare 10bT or
10b2 tranceivers for the odd box with an AUI port.
That's definitely the way to go.
Just wired the house with Cat-5 this week. 10bT has the advantage that it's
also 100bT with a change of equipment. (ISTR that you can use the
unused pair in the cable for LocalTalk, but I haven't yet tried it). One
of the ports off the switch goes to 10 Mbps equipment via a hub with a BNC
uplink, the other three ports go to 100 Mbps segments.
Since you've got LocalTalk running to the box,
then I'd also run MacGate
which would let you run MacIP (IP over LocalTalk).
For those in the bay area with an Mac IIlc or a Nubus Mac II, last time I
checked, Mike Quinn Electronics had a pile of ethernet cards for them. For
those with older Macs, I saw two SCSI/ethernet boxes at WeirdStuff, didn't
check the price, though.
Eric
14 Oct
14 Oct
4:41 p.m.
Don't worry about ThickNet, just pick up a couple of spare
Of course, I have 800 feet of cat5 run through my house and even out to the
garage to network. My curiosities extend beyond practicalities, though. :)
I want to run those other nets _because_ I can, not because it's efficient. :)
Tarsi
210
10bT or 10b2
tranceivers for the odd box with an AUI port.
That's definitely the way to go. 
15 Oct
15 Oct
6:18 a.m.
--- "Eric J. Korpela" <korpela(a)ssl.berkeley.edu> wrote:
I know you probably know what you meant, but to me, that statement is
misleading, or rather, to someone who knows little about networking,
taking the second sentence out of context could lead trouble.
phone wire - 2 pair or more, good for analog telephones
CAT-3 - will pass 10mbps traffic (or analog telephone traffic)
CAT-4 - good for token ring
CAT-5 - good for most inexpensive networking technologies
CAT-5e - needed for transmission technologies that put > 100mbps on
a single pair.
10BaseT can use CAT-3 or better. 16mbps Token Ring needs CAT-5 or
better. 100Base-TX needs CAT-5 (including CAT-5 jacks!) Don't recall
what 100Base-T4 needs (uses more than 2 pairs in the cable to lower the
required per-pair-bandwidth).
I mention jacks because I have a pile of punchdown blocks, etc., that
came from a sheet of plywood at a former employer's access point when
we ripped out the Token Thing hardware and installed CAT-5 (and new
wires). I would not expect to be able to use these blocks in a 100mbps
environment. I did get a nifty Nevada Western 19" rack-mountable RJ-11-
to-RJ-21 (Telco 50) patch panel that the baluns hung off of, if I ever
decided to do IBMish things at home.
Yes, you can untwist things past 1cm and still ring out as CAT-5 from end
to end, but the further you deviate from the published spec, the shorter
haul you can expect true CAT-5 performance out of your network. Same
with using video coax cable (RJ-62) for Ethernet (RG-58) - 75 ohms
impedance vs. 50 ohms. In small enough doses, it appears to work; but
as the network grows, the little analog effect do have an impact.
Lotsa little fiddly details about the physical layer are covered up by
robust layer 2 and layer 3 protocols. Without expensive sniffer hardware
(Time Domain Reflectometer, anyone?), a lot of this stuff gets swept under
the rug until you are having fits when it doesn't work.
-ethan
On the
Ethernet side, I'd not worry about specific 10bT and ThickNet
segments.
Just wired the house with Cat-5 this week. 10bT has the advantage that
it's also 100bT with a change of equipment. (ISTR that you can use the
unused pair in the cable for LocalTalk, but I haven't yet tried it).
Should be able to.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
7:45 a.m.
--- Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
10BaseT can use CAT-3 or better. 16mbps Token Ring
needs CAT-5 or
better.
Errp... Token Thing wants CAT-4. Sorry for the typo.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
8:20 a.m.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2001 at 11:18:10AM -0700, Ethan Dicks wrote:
10BaseT can use CAT-3 or better. 16mbps Token Ring
needs CAT-5 or
better. 100Base-TX needs CAT-5 (including CAT-5 jacks!) Don't recall
what 100Base-T4 needs (uses more than 2 pairs in the cable to lower the
required per-pair-bandwidth).
Now I'm thinking that the "T" in "10BaseT", "100BaseT4",
etc. and the T in
the line capacities "T-1", "T-2", etc. are the same thing. Is that
true?
(No, you didn't mention the line capacities, but something clicked in my
mind anyway.)
And is there a "10BroadT"? :)
-- Derek
8473
days inactive
8478
days old
14 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
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dpeschel＠eskimo.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
g＠kurico.com -
john_boffemmyer_iv＠boff-net.dhs.org -
jruschme＠Mac.com -
korpela＠ssl.berkeley.edu -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
optimus＠canit.se -
tarsi＠binhost.com -
vance＠ikickass.org