13 Oct
2005
13 Oct
'05
3:38 p.m.
Some of these items may interest folks.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZjcwren
--jc
13 Oct
13 Oct
3:47 p.m.
Some of these items may interest folks.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZjcwren
Or Not?
How about a clue as to what they are before making us go and look...
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
4:23 p.m.
Sorry. I know that clicking a link is just *so* hard. :)
--jc
William Donzelli wrote:
Some of these
items may interest folks.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZjcwren
Or Not?
How about a clue as to what they are before making us go and look...
William Donzelli
aw288 at osfn.org
9:11 a.m.
Sorry. I know that clicking a link is just *so* hard. :)
It is if you read your mail off-line using an e-mail program. You have to
dial up to the ISP, run a web browser and type in the link.
Remember that in the UK, there is a minimum charge for a phonecall no
matter how short. This doesn't matter to me if said call is actually
worth making, but I am not going to waste time and money on the off-chance.
Can people posting e-bay references _please_ say what they are. Something
like 'PDP11 boards' or 'Apple //e + monitor' or something like that. Just
so we know if it's possibly going to be of interest.
-tony
4:33 p.m.
Sorry. I know that clicking a link is just *so* hard.
:)
--jc
Not everyone reads email with an email client where you can "just" click on
the link. For that matter, not everyone on this list reads email on a
computer with a web browser (or at least one that will work with the eBay
site.
After all, aren't we all a bunch of Techno-Ludites :^)
Zane
5 p.m.
New subject: luddites! (was: Re: A few items for sale)
On Thu, October 13, 2005 9:33 pm, Zane H. Healy said:
After all, aren't we all a bunch of Techno-Ludites
:^)
Indeed! I'm reading this via the gift of wet string and stone cups
chiselled out by a wizened old bloke in a loincloth who's also chiselling
the letters in this email on stone tablets. Naturally he's using 8 bits of
stone to make the tablets, and he sometimes has to stop work to clear
cockroaches from his workplace when they get in the way. For temporary
storage he's using a grid of fake comedy breasts laid out in a 32x32
pattern which he's calling 'cor! Mammary' This means nothing to me. Nor
does the percussion instruments he has full of bits and the chunks he's
removed from fruit using his mouth that he's calling 'drums storage'.
I'm writing this on papyrus which will be read by a specially trained
cuckoo and left as 'little messages' in the stone cups, these little
messages can be thought of as 'c-pu' for simplicity. His wife will etch
translations of the c-pu on her own bits of sticky-backed plastic strips
we shall call 'maggie-tape' since her name is Margaret.
I'll stop now :)
--
adrian/witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UKs biggest home computer collection?
5:22 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
Witchy wrote:
On Thu, October 13, 2005 9:33 pm, Zane H. Healy said:
Thank you. 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
After all, aren't we all a bunch of
Techno-Ludites :^)
Indeed! I'm reading this via the gift of wet string and stone cups
chiselled out by a wizened old bloke in a loincloth who's also chiselling
the letters in this email on stone tablets. Naturally he's using 8 bits of
stone to make the tablets, and he sometimes has to stop work to clear
cockroaches from his workplace when they get in the way. For temporary
storage he's using a grid of fake comedy breasts laid out in a 32x32
pattern which he's calling 'cor! Mammary' This means nothing to me. Nor
does the percussion instruments he has full of bits and the chunks he's
removed from fruit using his mouth that he's calling 'drums storage'.
I'm writing this on papyrus which will be read by a specially trained
cuckoo and left as 'little messages' in the stone cups, these little
messages can be thought of as 'c-pu' for simplicity. His wife will etch
translations of the c-pu on her own bits of sticky-backed plastic strips
we shall call 'maggie-tape' since her name is Margaret.
I'll stop now :) 
8:14 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
>After all, aren't we all a bunch of
Techno-Ludites :^)
i haven't wasted any bandwidth *all day* so,
I'd like to point out that the Ludites where not anti-technology.
They were anti-loosing-your-job-due-to-technology. They didn't think it
was right that 10 people working should become 3 people working just
because a new machine was installed...
(and, I think they had a point. I think economists are all smoking
really good dope when they talk about mythical 'productivity gains')
-brad
5:47 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
At 08:14 PM 10/13/05 -0400, Brad wrote:
No you missed the point. It's real simple! An employer's gain is the
employee's loss!
So be very aware whenever big businees (or replubicans) talk about
"gains"! It usually means that the workers are going to get screwed!
Joe
>After all, aren't we all a bunch of
Techno-Ludites :^)
i haven't wasted any bandwidth *all day* so,
I'd like to point out that the Ludites where not anti-technology.
They were anti-loosing-your-job-due-to-technology. They didn't think it
was right that 10 people working should become 3 people working just
because a new machine was installed...
(and, I think they had a point. I think economists are all smoking
really good dope when they talk about mythical 'productivity gains')
-brad
8:31 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
Brad Parker wrote:
They were anti-loosing-your-job-due-to-technology.
They didn't think it
was right that 10 people working should become 3 people working just
because a new machine was installed...
I can't think of were computers really had the most inpact
other than word-processing and accounting. I think it was more
the USA was not as inovative in small things but only large scale
things.
(and, I think they had a point. I think economists are
all smoking
really good dope when they talk about mythical 'productivity gains')
productivity gains = more $$ for management from my view point.
-brad
9:01 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
Comments inline ....
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:31:38 -0600, woodelf wrote:
Manufacturing, one well written numerical control program generator
can replace a small army of machinists with a small number of material
movers and machine loaders. Lathe, Mill, and grinder operators went first....
And how about the typesetters and linotype operators in the printing industry ?
There are many many more examples if you think about how things were done
before ... Digital
productivity gains = more $$ for management from my view point.
more likely = more money for the vendors then what is left over is for the stock holders
:)
Brad Parker wrote:
They were
anti-loosing-your-job-due-to-technology. They didn't think it
was right that 10 people working should become 3 people working just
because a new machine was installed...
I can't think of were computers really had the most inpact
other than word-processing and accounting. I think it was more
the USA was not as inovative in small things but only large scale
things. >(and, I think they had a point. I think economists
are all smoking
>really good dope when they talk about mythical 'productivity gains')
>
The productivity gains are real in most manufactureing and process control applications.
Bean counting and people tracking is only a small part of the computing picture.
>-brad
>
>
Bob Bradlee
14 Oct
14 Oct
3:24 a.m.
New subject: luddites!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bradlee" <Bob at BRADLEE.ORG>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: luddites!
productivity gains = more $$ for management from my view point.
more likely = more money for the vendors then what is left over is for the stock
holders :)
Manufacturing, one well written numerical control program generator
can replace a small army of machinists with a small number of material
movers and machine loaders. Lathe, Mill, and grinder operators went
first....
And how about the typesetters and linotype operators in the printing
industry ?
There are many many more examples if you think about how things were done
before ... Digital
applications.
>(and, I think they had a point. I think
economists are all smoking
>really good dope when they talk about mythical 'productivity gains')
>
The productivity gains are real in most manufactureing and process control
Bean counting and people tracking is only a small part
of the computing
picture.
Bob Bradlee
Automation might replace many manual manufacturing positions, but it does
create support jobs for the machinery used to automate. The more complex the
equipment the more people involved in designing, creating, supporting, and
servicing it. You trade low skill jobs for somewhat fewer higher skill jobs.
The US used to have most of its population at one time working the fields to
feed themselves and the rest of the country, today very few people are
needed to run automated farms but the rest found other things to do (we
don't have 97% unemployment now do we).
Productivity gains were huge when we went to computers and robotics to do
the repetitive tasks. Thing is once you automate the process where can you
get further productivity gains? The answer most companies use is to reduce
headcount, make everyone a salaried position (overtime exempt) and crank up
the expected work hours from their employees. You can also buy up the
competition and price your goods higher (still paying your workers the same
amount while merging the 2 companies and firing most of the duplicate
staff).
The major problems come when the manufacturing itself is sent to another
country, and with manufacturing goes the equipment and service companies
that support manufacturing. This leaves many people out of work and driving
down the wages of those who still have a job, but must compete with those
will work at a lower rate to survive.
3:02 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
It was thus said that the Great Teo Zenios once stated:
The major problems come when the manufacturing itself is sent to another
country, and with manufacturing goes the equipment and service companies
that support manufacturing. This leaves many people out of work and driving
down the wages of those who still have a job, but must compete with those
will work at a lower rate to survive.
Wasn't this an issue here in the US during the 60s and 70s? Only then it
was jobs being moved from the Northern US to Southern US.
-spc (Seem to recall protests about companies moving jobs to other
states ... )
3:23 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner" <spc at conman.org>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2005 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: luddites!
it
It was thus said that the Great Teo Zenios once
stated:
>
> The major problems come when the manufacturing itself is sent to another
> country, and with manufacturing goes the equipment and service companies
> that support manufacturing. This leaves many people out of work and
driving
> down the wages of those who still have a job, but
must compete with
those
will work at a
lower rate to survive.
Wasn't this an issue here in the US during the 60s and 70s? Only then was jobs being moved from the Northern US to Southern
US.
-spc (Seem to recall protests about companies moving jobs to other
states ... )
There were no unions in the south at that time. Its one thing having the
jobs move around the country where the cost of living is lower (I would
rather make $50K in Tennessee then $90K in NYC), its another to see the jobs
go to a country that won't let you in to work.
8:19 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
I remember the very bitter labor union battles the typesetters had with the
Washington Post in the 1960's. It was a fight over 'computerizing' the
typesetting process, come to think of it the computers were probably
PDP-8's. [just to keep it on topic]
A number of people lost their jobs to technology, but what a technology!
Doug
At 08:31 PM 10/13/2005, you wrote:
Brad Parker wrote:
They were anti-loosing-your-job-due-to-technology.
They didn't think it
was right that 10 people working should become 3 people working just
because a new machine was installed...
I can't think of were computers really had the most inpact other than
word-processing and accounting. I think it was more
the USA was not as inovative in small things but only large scale
things.
(and, I think they had a point. I think
economists are all smoking
really good dope when they talk about mythical 'productivity gains')
productivity gains = more $$ for management from my view point.
>-brad
> 
13 Oct
13 Oct
8:47 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
[Luddites] were
anti-[losing]-your-job-due-to-technology. They
didn't think it was right that 10 people working should become 3
people working just because a new machine was installed...
(and, I think they had a point.
I'm not sure which side I agree with (which I suppose means I don't
really agree with either side). To the right, I see no reason an
employer should have to pay 10 people to do something today just
because 10 people were needed to do it yesterday. But to the left, it
can be, and often is, a societal evil in automating jobs out of
existence.
I think economists are all smoking really good dope
when they talk
about mythical 'productivity gains')
I'm not so sure. I suspect it's a question of definition - how do you
define "productivity"? If you take the na?ve definition and say that a
factory's productivity is the amount of product it produces in a given
amount of time, then yes, you can *easily* have productivity gains when
automating a bunch of jobs out of existence. For more complex
definitions of "productivity", I suspect similar things can still
happen - after all, when all you measure is productivity, there are a
whole bunch of things you *aren't* measuring.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
9:15 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
On Thu, October 13, 2005 5:14 pm, Brad Parker wrote:
They were anti-loosing-your-job-due-to-technology. They didn't think it
was right that 10 people working should become 3 people working just
because a new machine was installed...
(and, I think they had a point. I think economists are all smoking
really good dope when they talk about mythical 'productivity gains')
Well, your own example proved the existance of productivity gains - 3 people
with a machine could produce as much as 10 people without the machine, ergo
the 3 people are more productive. If you give 9 of those workers the
machines, and keep 1 around to do maintenance on the machines, the whole group
is nearly 3x as productive.
It doesn't necessarily lead to the loss of jobs. The cost of what you are
making drops, and more people can afford to buy it. I, for one, am glad
refridgerators no longer cost 6 month's salary.
This is why we can sit around and discuss "classic" computers - if there were
no productivity improvements (faster, cheaper) in computer technology, we'd
still be using all that old stuff.
Jeff
14 Oct
14 Oct
1:15 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
"Jeff Davis" wrote:
Well, your own example proved the existance of productivity gains - 3 people
with a machine could produce as much as 10 people without the machine, ergo
the 3 people are more productive. If you give 9 of those workers the
machines, and keep 1 around to do maintenance on the machines, the whole group
is nearly 3x as productive.
yes, but what if the 7 people who loose their jobs leave town and the town
goes belly up?
if you measure at the planet level it all probably makes sense, but at a
local level it's not so clear.
20,000 unemployed textile works in NC who won't ever be retrained may
have a better understanding of this effect... (but only in NC).
-brad
13 Oct
13 Oct
5:32 p.m.
New subject: luddites!
Witchy wrote:
On Thu, October 13, 2005 9:33 pm, Zane H. Healy said:
I'm thinking you can keep those two PERQs - I'm not sure that I want to
go anywhere near your house any more! ;)
After all, aren't we all a bunch of
Techno-Ludites :^)
Indeed! I'm reading this via the gift of wet string and stone cups
chiselled out by a wizened old bloke in a loincloth who's also chiselling
the letters in this email on stone tablets.
6:09 p.m.
It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once stated:
And some of us are reading email with an email client that doesn't support
MIME (so I usually see just how bloated emails are getting).
-spc (Who does use a modern email client at work, but boy, is it S-L-O-W)
Sorry. I know that clicking a link is just *so*
hard. :)
--jc
Not everyone reads email with an email client where you can "just" click on
the link. For that matter, not everyone on this list reads email on a
computer with a web browser (or at least one that will work with the eBay
site.
10:04 p.m.
Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote:
It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once
stated:
And some of us are reading email with an email client that doesn't support
MIME (so I usually see just how bloated emails are getting).
-spc (Who does use a modern email client at work, but boy, is it S-L-O-W)
If you think that's slow, you should try Lotus Notes.
Peace... Sridhar
Sorry. I
know that clicking a link is just *so* hard. :)
--jc
Not everyone reads email with an email client where you can "just" click on
the link. For that matter, not everyone on this list reads email on a
computer with a web browser (or at least one that will work with the eBay
site. 
14 Oct
14 Oct
12:27 a.m.
If you think that's slow, you should try Lotus
Notes.
The HMO I work for has standardized on Lotus Notes. I thought I would
never say it, but ... I liked Outlook better. See what depths Notes has
driven me to?
It tries to do too much, which I guess would not be unexpected for IBM.
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- And now for something completely different. -- Monty Python ----------------
12:55 a.m.
...
The HMO I work for has standardized on Lotus Notes. I
thought
I would never say it, but ... I liked Outlook better. See
what depths Notes has driven me to?
It tries to do too much, which I guess would not be
unexpected for IBM.
Don't blame IBM for that. Lotus created it. You remember that saying that
men are from Mars & women are from Venus? The guys that created Notes are
from Pluto. When I first used it was with a Windows 3.0
client and the
keyboard interface was totally hosed. Keys that everyone was used to
doing
some particular thing like the home key or the end key would do something
totally bizarre like go to the end of the page. Not only that, there was no
facility for remapping the keyboard.
Actually Notes has some interesting features in its ability to access
structured databases on a pull basis while still delivering email on a push
basis. In certain environments dealing with a big pile of "notes" it really
does a good job of letting you organize them in a hierarchical way. I worked
for several years for a company that used it and it was fantastic for that
job.
Gil
1:04 a.m.
Actually Notes has some interesting features in its
ability to access
structured databases on a pull basis while still delivering email on a push
basis. In certain environments dealing with a big pile of "notes" it really
does a good job of letting you organize them in a hierarchical way. I worked
for several years for a company that used it and it was fantastic for that
job.
No, I do agree with that. It just seems to be a victim of its very "I have a
solution for every problem whether you have that problem or not" philosophy.
The HMO I work for has pretty much leveraged it for mail, and that's it. I
think some of the other service areas *do* do other things with it, but we're
just pretty much using it as an overgrown E-mail client.
I think I'll build elm on my desktop PC instead.
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Life isn't fair. But having the root password helps. -----------------------
9:16 a.m.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
Actually, I think it's fine for groupware, it's just too slow for email.
Peace... Sridhar
If you think
that's slow, you should try Lotus Notes.
The HMO I work for has standardized on Lotus Notes. I thought I would
never say it, but ... I liked Outlook better. See what depths Notes has
driven me to?
It tries to do too much, which I guess would not be unexpected for IBM. 
3:38 p.m.
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Actually, I think it's fine for groupware, it's just too slow for email.
The jury is still out on that one.
Cameron Kaiser wrote:
If you think that's slow, you should try Lotus
Notes.
The HMO I work for has standardized on Lotus Notes. I thought I would
never say it, but ... I liked Outlook better. See what depths Notes has
driven me to?
It tries to do too much, which I guess would not be unexpected for IBM. 
13 Oct
13 Oct
5:56 p.m.
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, J.C. Wren wrote:
Some of these items may interest folks.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZjcwren
I copied the URL to a piece of paper, shut down the email machine (which
temporarily is incapable of running a browser), took the machine off of
the table, set up and booted the machine that has a working web browser
but no email, shut it back down and switched the modem, rebooted it,
checked out the URL (which is for 1972 Motorola databooks, wire-wrap
prototype board in 14 x 15" frame, Intel software for 8096, and JCWren's
collection at $510 (reserve not met))
BTW, depending on MODEL, those Micropolis 5.25" drives are likely to be 77
track 100 TPI, NOT "normal" 720K.
Then I switched computers back again.
A short statement along with the URL about what the hell it was about
would have been more convenient. Then I would have waited until this
afternoon, when I will be alone in a room with 36 XP machines running
current software.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
7:05 p.m.
Rumor has it that Fred Cisin may have mentioned these words:
[snippage of happity stuff checking links...]
[[ You don't have lynx on your email machine? I find it a handy critter to
have around... that and Mutt. ;-) ]]
...when I will be alone in a room with 36 XP machines
running
current software.
Poor bastard.
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers
_??_ zmerch at 30below.com
(?||?) If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
_)(_ disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
8:57 p.m.
Rumor has it that Fred Cisin may have mentioned these
words:
>[snippage of happity stuff checking links...]
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, Roger Merchberger wrote:
[[ You don't have lynx on your email machine? I
find it a handy critter to
have around... that and Mutt. ;-) ]]
I will once again, once I sort out what's going on with the machine.
...when I will
be alone in a room with 36 XP machines running
current software.
Poor bastard.
9:13 p.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
Yeah. But I don't have "administrator
rights" on them, and I'd prob'ly
get fired if I were to get caught bypassing security.
But, they have TELNET, and I found ONE where the CMOS is set to permit
booting from floppy!
So are you TELNETing your email then?
I think you can do it this way, but don't ask me the details.
Ben Alias woodelf
9:33 p.m.
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005, woodelf wrote:
So are you TELNETing your email then?
I think you can do it this way, but don't ask me the details.
Ben Alias woodelf
Most of it, including this list. I have a shell account at my ISP
that works reasonably well. Sometimes I can run lynx on the shell
account, but it often won't work with eBay listings.
But I need to use Outlook on XP for almost all of the college mail, since
we have a lot of truly brain-dead administrators who send nothing but
multi megabyte MS Weird .DOC files and PDF files, as attachments to
messages that don't say ANYTHING other than "Look at the attachment".
Usually the attachment will be a heavily formatted document with clip-art
(sometimes ANIMATED!) in order to say something on the order of: "The
curiclum (SIC!) committee meeting has been postponed until Tuesday."
Oh well.
In half an hour, my students will be here, and I'll explain to them how
the PC BIOS handles keyboard input.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:23 p.m.
Oh well.
In half an hour, my students will be here, and I'll explain to them
how the PC BIOS handles keyboard input.
"Poorly"? :-)
Okay, okay, cheap shot....
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
14 Oct
14 Oct
12:26 a.m.
...
So are you TELNETing your email then?
I think you can do it this way, but don't ask me the details.
Sure you can. Just telnet to the SNMP server and send it the commands to get
the messages. When I teach networking we actually have an exercise where we
do exactly that. It's a little tricky, though, because a telnet client does
not echo what you type. It depends on the telnet server echoing the data
back and it displays what it gets back. Unfortunately, SNMP servers don't do
that, so when you type the commands you can't see what you are typing. It
can be a little confusing. But doable, yes.
Gil
Ben Alias woodelf
12:29 a.m.
New subject: Telnetting for SNMP etc was Re: A few items for sale
Sure you can. Just telnet to the SNMP server and send
it the commands to get
the messages. When I teach networking we actually have an exercise where we
do exactly that. It's a little tricky, though, because a telnet client does
not echo what you type. It depends on the telnet server echoing the data
back and it displays what it gets back. Unfortunately, SNMP servers don't do
that, so when you type the commands you can't see what you are typing. It
can be a little confusing. But doable, yes.
Eh? You could turn local echo on in the client, but tbh, I have not seen this
behaviour with the vanilla Unix client connecting to SNMP or SMTP ports.
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- The cost of living has not adversely affected its popularity. --------------
1:01 a.m.
New subject: Telnetting for SNMP etc was Re: A few items for sale
Eh? You could
turn local echo on in the client, but tbh, I
have not seen this behaviour with the vanilla Unix client
connecting to SNMP or SMTP ports.
What's UNIX?
12:37 a.m.
Just telnet to the SNMP server and [...]
Um...SNMP is not normally carried over UDP, not TCP, and thus is not
telnettable-to. My first guess is you mean SMTP, but...
send it the commands to get the messages.
Um, you don't do that with SMTP (and *certainly* not with SNMP). SMTP
is used to *send* messages, not *get* messages. You apparently mean
POP or IMAP or some such.
When I teach networking we actually have an exercise
where we do
exactly that. It's a little tricky, though, because a telnet client
does not echo what you type. It depends on the telnet server echoing
the data back and it displays what it gets back.
This is true only of broken (or misconfigured) telnet clients. Since
the default state of ECHO is off (see RFC 857), the server is not
supposed to be doing echoing (since ECHO will not be negotiated on when
speaking to something that does not speak telnet protocol); the client
must do any echoing that is to be done.
Unfortunately, SNMP servers don't do that, so when
you type the
commands you can't see what you are typing.
*I* certainly can. I'd guess you need to get a better telnet client.
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10:39 a.m.
Whoa! You are right on the first two anyway. That's what I get for answering
email so late at night.
My first guess is you mean SMTP, but...
Yes.
...
SMTP is used to *send* messages, not *get* messages.
You apparently mean POP or IMAP or some such.
POP.
...
telnet client does not echo what you type.
...
This is true only of broken (or misconfigured) telnet
clients.
Gee, I just open a DOS command window & type telnet. It doesn't have any
options.
...
;)
Gil
11:28 a.m.
...
Misconfigured. Turn on "Local Echo".
and which of these options is that?
telnet [-a][-e escape char][-f log file][-l user][-t term][host [port]]
-a Attempt automatic logon. Same as -l option except uses
the currently logged on user's name.
-e Escape character to enter telnet client prompt.
-f File name for client side logging
-l Specifies the user name to log in with on the remote system.
Requires that the remote system support the TELNET ENVIRON option.
-t Specifies terminal type.
Supported term types are vt100, vt52, ansi and vtnt only.
host Specifies the hostname or IP address of the remote computer
to connect to.
port Specifies a port number or service name.
Gil
Peace... Sridhar
11:34 a.m.
On Friday 14 October 2005 10:28, Gil Carrick wrote:
...
Run telnet. Press ^]. You should get a prompt from telnet where you
can set options for telnet, like echo and such, assuming they have
packaged a sane telnet client with Windows.
Of course, they don't want you to have too much control, so it's
possible that you can't do any of that. >:)
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
Misconfigured. Turn on "Local Echo".
and which of these options is that?
11:36 a.m.
Misconfigured. Turn on "Local Echo".
and which of these options is that? Of course, they don't want you to have too much
control, so it's
possible that you can't do any of that. >:)
There is also a number of good GUI-based Telnets, including PuTTY. The
telnet included with 2K and XP, frankly, stinks.
--
---------------------------------- personal: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Out of my mind (back in an hour). ------------------------------------------
11:58 a.m.
Ah!
Thanks. That did work. This is actually what I got:
bsasdel Backspace will be sent as delete
crlf New line mode - Causes return key to send CR & LF
delasbs Delete will be sent as backspace
escape x x is an escape charater to enter telnet client prompt
localecho Turn on localecho.
logfile x x is current client log file
logging Turn on logging
mode x x is console or stream
ntlm Turn on NTLM authentication.
term x x is ansi, vt100, vt52, or vtnt
This will clearly solve that problem for me. Humm. I wonder if I will get
double characters if I am actually working with a telnet server. I will have
to try that one of these days.
Gil
...
% telnet
telnet> set ?
echo character to toggle local echoing on/off
escape character to escape back to telnet command mode
The following need 'localchars' to be toggled true
erase character to cause an Erase Character
flushoutput character to cause an Abort Output
interrupt character to cause an Interrupt Process
kill character to cause an Erase Line
quit character to cause a Break
eof character to cause an EOF
sak character to cause remote host SAK sequence to be sent
? display help information
telnet>
Of course, they don't want you to have too
much control, so it's
possible that you can't do any of that. >:)
There is also a number of good GUI-based Telnets, including
PuTTY. The telnet included with 2K and XP, frankly, stinks.
--
---------------------------------- personal:
http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Floodgap
Systems Ltd * So. Calif., USA * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Out of my mind (back in an hour).
------------------------------------------
6861
days inactive
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days old
46 comments
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
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Bob＠BRADLEE.ORG -
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cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dj.taylor＠starpower.net -
gilcarrick＠comcast.net -
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jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jdaviscl2＠soupwizard.com -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
jwest＠classiccmp.org -
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pat＠computer-refuge.org -
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