Not at all! <groan> Regardless of what type of system you are working on a real debugger is just as necessary as a 'scope for working on hardware. MINIMAL functionallity should include: breakpoints and the ability at monitor/alter memory while the program is executing (albiet typically paused). For embedded systems I prefer an ICE, altought I do work with many systems where I use a "monitor" approach. For desktop appliction level programs, I usually use a commercial debugger. For OS or driver (Ring-0) code, I have debug versions of the kernal for most of my development environments. Re-read the above (it was supposed to read "and drop nail"!)...I was not typing so good. Seriously I learned to type on a Royal manual typewriter at a fairly young age. I did not have the strength to "touch type" the outter keys [QAZP], so I sort of adapted. Then I worked on ASR-33's which did not lend themselves to touch typing either. These days I type a nearly the rate of a "typist" but with a distinctly unique style of using <grin>