11 Sep
1999
11 Sep
'99
3:43 p.m.
I just returned from the Melbourne hamfest. I picked up a Osbourne
Executive complete with all the disks and manuals from the original owner,
a Heathkit Hero Robot and a HP 3468 meter with HP-IL interface. :-) Found
out later that I missed a Lisa keyboard.
4:47 p.m.
New subject: Neat Find
It seems like about once a year I find something of value at one of the
thrift stores. Recently I heard about an Altair on display in the front
window of a local thrift store, but so far, haven't been able to find or
verify that. However, yesterday I managed to get a Commodore Pet 2001 at a
local thrift store for $1.91! Bargains like this are getting harder to find,
but at least they still do exist!
12 Sep
12 Sep
9:21 a.m.
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13 Sep
13 Sep
4:09 a.m.
Tony,
At 07:21 PM 9/12/99 +0100, you wrote:
The best (only?) low level reference to HP_IL is "The HP-IL System: An
Introductory Guide to the Hewlett-Packard Interface Loop" by Kane, Harper
and Ushijima published by Osbourne/McGraw Hill. It is (was?) available
through any book store. It's manadatory if you're interested in low level
details about HP-IL.
Ahh,
I've got a 3468 as well. What a great multimeter! HP-IL is *cool*.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'll go along with that. It was/is a very well-desinged interface. At a
high level it looks remarkably like HPIB/IEEE488 (to the extent that
there's an HP interface -- the 82169 IIRC -- that transparently links
HPIB devices to an HPIL controller or HPIL devices to an HPIB
controller). The low level (I have the specs somewhere) is pretty simple
as well...
I just wish I had more of it. I've got it on some HP handhelds (71B,
75C), on my 150, and that's about it. I've got some of the interfaces
(RS232, HPIB, GPIO, Video), but no storage devices or printers (yet!!).
ThinkJet printers and 9114 disk drives are fairly common if you look for
them. A lot of times you'll find them bundled with HP 110 Portable
computers. The set of all three shows up on E-bay fairly often and usually
sells for a reasonable price. I saw a ThinkJet, 9114 and 110 that sold at
the hamfest this weekend for $20 with a pile of HP-IL cables and several
manuals. Unfortunately it sold before I found it.
I picked up an HP3421 (I think that's the number -- the data
logger/multimeter thingy) with HPIL and HPIB on it for a couple of pounds
at a factory sale aa few years back. Nobody else knew what it was. I
didn't really know what it was, but it said HP, and looked interesting
:-)... Still not figured out how to make it do something useful, but it
returns a sane ID when probed on the HPIL so I guess it's doing something.
The 3421 is really nice, doubley so both interfaces. You can use it on
HP 85s and the like with the HP-IB or on HP 71s and the other calculators
with the IL interface. If you got any of the optional plug in cards in the
back send me the part numbers off of them and I'll tell you what they are.
I have a manual for the 3421 if you need a copy.
Joe
8:49 a.m.
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11:16 a.m.
New subject: HP-IL (was Re: GOOD hamfest!)
Tony wrote:
Several HP products were done this way, including the HPIB version of
the Thinkjet printer.
Also, note that the HP 9807 Integral computer (the 68K/HP-UX lunchbox
computer) has an internal Thinkjet printer which is interface to the
system via an internal HP-IL bus. Too bad they didn't make it available
externally. It's rumored that there was an expansion card to provide an
HP-IL interface, but I've never seen it.
I have (somewhere) the HP specs for HP-IL, and the
1LB3 HPIL interface
chip data sheet
I scanned these for Dave Hick's Museum of HP Calculators CD-ROM set. They
should appear on the next edition which he expects to ship soon.
http://www.hpmuseum.org/
(heck, although not IL-related, I have the 1LQ4 Saturn
bus
-> JEDEC memory interface chip data sheets somewhere...).
That one I've never seen. Where did you find it?
Oh, and the
HP71 HPIL module IDS (ROM sources, etc for the HP71 HP-IL code). With
those I can generally figure out HPIL problems
These will also appear on a future CD-ROM, along with the HP-71
Software IDS (3 volumes), the HP-71 Hardware IDS, and the
HP-71 Forth/Assembler Software IDS.
The 3421 is
really nice, doubley so both interfaces. You can use it on
The HPIB is a kludge :-). The basic instrument is HPIL, and the HPIB
board is a microcontroller + ROMs + 1LB3 + interface parts. There's a 4
pole changeover switch that links the HPIL port on the main board either
to the external connector or to the HP-IL port on the HPIB card. That
card then translates HPIB commands/data into HPIL ones -- sort of like a
special 82169.
1:04 p.m.
At 06:49 PM 9/13/99 +0100, Tony said:
How could I forget -- I was given a portable+ a few months back. It has
HPIL (of course)...
The HPIB is a kludge :-). The basic instrument is HPIL, and the HPIB
board is a microcontroller + ROMs + 1LB3 + interface parts.
Yes, the HP-IB version of the ThinkJet does the same thing. I haven't
looked at the 3421 circuit so there may be some differences but the IL
ThinkJet converts HP-IB to HP-IL and most of the rest of the interface is
standard HP-IL. That's odd considering that the IL version was the only
battery powered ThinkJet and HP had to make MANY changes to the rest of the
electronics to allow the printer to run off of a battery. Besides the
battery powereed one with the IL interface, HP was building AC powered
ThinkJets with RS-232, HP-IB and Centronics interfaces. Many years later HP
came out with a battery powered ThinkJet that used a Centronics interface.
Joe
I have (somewhere) the HP specs for HP-IL, and the 1LB3 HPIL interface
chip data sheet (heck, although not IL-related, I have the 1LQ4 Saturn bus
-> JEDEC memory interface chip data sheets somewhere...). Oh, and the
HP71 HPIL module IDS (ROM sources, etc for the HP71 HP-IL code). With
those I can generally figure out HPIL problems
Have you ever had to fix any IL stuff? I've never seen one fail (knock
on wood!)
I just wish I had more of it. I've got it on some HP handhelds (71B,
75C), on my 150, and that's about it. I've got some of the interfaces
(RS232, HPIB, GPIO, Video), but no storage devices or printers (yet!!).
ThinkJet printers and 9114 disk drives are fairly common if you look for
them. A lot of times you'll find them bundled with HP 110 Portable I picked
up an HP3421 (I think that's the number -- the data
logger/multimeter thingy) with HPIL and HPIB on it for a couple of pounds
at a factory sale aa few years back. Nobody else knew what it was. I
didn't really know what it was, but it said HP, and looked interesting
:-)... Still not figured out how to make it do something useful, but it
returns a sane ID when probed on the HPIL so I guess it's doing something.
The 3421 is really nice, doubley so both interfaces. You can use it on
12:26 p.m.
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4:55 p.m.
I wrote:
Yes, the HP-IB version of the ThinkJet does the same
thing. I haven't
Tony replied:
I am _amazed_. You mean there are 2 1LB3's in an
HPIB thinkjet for no
good reason????
No, there's just one in there. The Thinkjet controller chip has an
IL interface built in. (It's equivalent to a 1LB3, but it's not a
separate chip.)
5:34 p.m.
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14 Sep
14 Sep
1:54 p.m.
At 07:51 PM 9/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
Since I collect HP stuff and use the HP-IB bus I'd say yes but I guess
it depends on if you have a use for it. I don't have a shortage of them
:-) I grab most of them that I find and keep them around to use or for
parts. The 1LB3 ICs are impossible to find except by pulling them out of
other items so I always grab the HP-IB and IL printers. The biggest
failure in all the ThinkJets is the contacts on the flex cable that connect
to the printhead. They have little tits that are supposed to press against
the contacts on the printhead but corrosion and wiping hard will tear the
tits off and then you get blank lines in the print. DON'T wipe the
contacts, just blot them to clean them. The print cartridges are prone to
leaking, you shouls always remove them if you're not using the printer and
ALLWAYS remove them before shipping the printer. Altitude and air pressure
changes will pump the ink out of the cartridge. You can self test the
printers by holding down the FF key and turning the printer on. Wait a few
seconds and release the FF key.
Joe
Yes, the
HP-IB version of the ThinkJet does the same thing. I haven't
Is this something worth picking up if I see one in a junk yard? 
13 Sep
13 Sep
4:41 p.m.
On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Tony Duell wrote:
> The best (only?) low level reference to HP_IL
is "The HP-IL System: An
> Introductory Guide to the Hewlett-Packard Interface Loop" by Kane, Harper
> and Ushijima published by Osbourne/McGraw Hill. It is (was?) available
> through any book store. It's manadatory if you're interested in low level
> details about HP-IL.
Joe: I've found that the original HP specs document by HP is more explicit
about all hardware aspects, and more to the point. However, I must say
that I learned most that I know about _programming_ the HPIL from
Kane et al.
The HPIB is a kludge :-). The basic instrument is HPIL, and the HPIB
board is a microcontroller + ROMs + 1LB3 + interface parts. There's a 4
pole changeover switch that links the HPIL port on the main board either
to the external connector or to the HP-IL port on the HPIB card. That
card then translates HPIB commands/data into HPIL ones -- sort of like a
special 82169.
Tony: I would not call it a kludge. According to HPIB instrument design
standards, the computer communications should be electrically isolated from
the instrument's electronics. In the particular case of the 3421, using
the intrinsic electrical isolation provided by the HPIL loop's pulse
xformers to fulfill this requirement is actually sensible cost-conscious
engineering.
Best regards,
Carlos.
9:53 a.m.
a Heathkit Hero Robot and a HP 3468 meter with HP-IL
interface. :-) Found
out later that I missed a Lisa keyboard.
Waitamoment - I can help - What about a trade ?
Lisa keyboard vs. Hero ? I may even throw in
an additional TI 74 ?
Gruss
H.
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HRK
12:47 p.m.
At 06:54 PM 9/13/99 +1, Hans wrote:
Nope, I don't think so! I only need a couple of Lisa keytops.
a Heathkit
Hero Robot and a HP 3468 meter with HP-IL interface. :-) Found
out later that I missed a Lisa keyboard.
Waitamoment - I can help - What about a trade ? Lisa keyboard vs. Hero ? I may even throw in
an additional TI 74 ?
What the hell is a TI 74?
Joe
Gruss
H.
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HRK
14 Sep
14 Sep
8:16 a.m.
>> a Heathkit Hero Robot and a HP 3468 meter
with HP-IL interface. :-) Found
>> out later that I missed a Lisa keyboard.
>Waitamoment - I can help - What about a trade ?
Nope, I don't think so! I only need a couple
of Lisa keytops.
Well, if you just need the keytops ... TRADE !
For a Hero I might even plunder some of my Lisa
spare parts (I have almost a complete Lisa as
genuine Apple spare parts ...).
>Lisa keyboard vs. Hero ? I may even throw in
>an additional TI 74 ?
What the hell is a TI 74?
A small hand held Basic computer from TI.
I just aquired some.
Gruss
H.
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Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
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16 comments
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participants (8)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cem14＠cornell.edu -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
marvin＠rain.org -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net