4 May
2007
4 May
'07
4:50 p.m.
As I have been collecting computers, I have noticed
that some pieces of equipment like printers and the
like, contain a lot of this awful foam stuff, most
likely for noise deadening. Time has caused this foam
to break down and turn to gunk, or at least a soft,
squshy material that does not spring back. It also
crumbles. IBM foam seems to be the worst, along with
the foam used on Zenith PC's, turning into a tarry
goo.
On the CDC drives I just picked up, the entire inside
of them is covered in this foam, some of it is
starting to come off, or has stuck to cables and such
inside. A couple smaller chunks of it literally fell
off one part of the cover, the glue only holding the
particular particles of the foam to which it was
attached, and the rest of the foam falling away.
What is the best thing to do about this, especially in
something as sensitive as a disk drive? Should I
remove it? What's the best method? Is there something
I can use to replace it?
Also, for instance, inside the cover of the PDP-11/84,
there is a thin slab of foam that has turned to crud.
I plan on removing this entirely - vacuuming away what
I can and cleaning the rest off with something - what
will dissolve this? I know that trying to get the gunk
from IBM foam off your hands is nearly impossible.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
-Ian
4 May
4 May
5:09 p.m.
Mr Ian Primus wrote:
Also, for instance, inside the cover of the
PDP-11/84,
there is a thin slab of foam that has turned to crud.
I plan on removing this entirely - vacuuming away what
I can and cleaning the rest off with something - what
will dissolve this? I know that trying to get the gunk
from IBM foam off your hands is nearly impossible.
The best thing to do with that foam is to scrape as much as you can off
manually, since many of the solvents that will dissolve that gunk can
damage paint and plastic.
As for getting IBM goop off your hands, I use Fast Orange. The orange
oil and pumice tends to do the job.
Peace... Sridhar
5:25 p.m.
Another couple of nasties about to (or already have done) damage your
collectables are the rubber rollers in tape drives and backup
batteries.
Dave Caroline
6:08 p.m.
Yeah, no kidding....
In video arcade machines - games like Pole Position boards all had the
WORST design "feature" --- the boards are mounting to the inside side of
the cabinet and the PCB layout has the battery and the top center of the
board which over course eventually deteriorated, burst open and oozes
battery acid to all of the adjacent components and traces. That's
something many of us don't really discuss, using caution when handling
older equipment/boards that may still contain original NiCads, lead acid
and just plain old Alkaline batteries in them. Dangerous is that might
still "pop" or be actively leaking.
Curt
Dave Caroline wrote:
Another couple of nasties about to (or already have
done) damage your
collectables are the rubber rollers in tape drives and backup
batteries.
Dave Caroline
5 May
5 May
6:04 a.m.
WORST design "feature" --- the boards are
mounting to the inside side of
the cabinet and the PCB layout has the battery and the top center of the
board which over course eventually deteriorated, burst open and oozes
battery acid to all of the adjacent components and traces. That's
Who would think that some 30 years later it would still be used and
collected? ;o) But remember: Vinegar is your friend. Use vinegar to clean
the electrolyte from the battery and you'll be happy ;o)
Greetz from Brazil
Alexandre Souza
http://www.tabajara-labs.com.br
8:43 a.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
Hi, can anyone in the UK help out - i'm after a bnc to utp connector to
attach my amiga to our utp ethernet network.
thanks,
stu
10:51 p.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
At 1:43 PM +0100 5/5/07, stuart birchall wrote:
Hi, can anyone in the UK help out - i'm after a bnc
to utp connector to
attach my amiga to our utp ethernet network.
Keep an eye out for old 10Base-T hubs, many of them had a 10Base-2
connection. Even now I'm guessing that they are much cheaper than a
media converter (I know how much I paid for my media converter).
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
11:21 p.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
On Saturday 05 May 2007 22:51, Zane H. Healy wrote:
At 1:43 PM +0100 5/5/07, stuart birchall wrote:
Got a couple of those kicking around I'm looking to get rid of, though I
don't recall offhand whether they have that connection or not...
They're mentioned at http://mysite.verizon.net/rtellason/w4s.html .
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
Hi, can anyone in the UK help out - i'm after
a bnc to utp connector to
attach my amiga to our utp ethernet network.
Keep an eye out for old 10Base-T hubs, many of them had a 10Base-2
connection. Even now I'm guessing that they are much cheaper than a
media converter (I know how much I paid for my media converter). 
6 May
6 May
12:05 a.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
On 5 May 2007 at 19:51, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Keep an eye out for old 10Base-T hubs, many of them
had a 10Base-2
connection. Even now I'm guessing that they are much cheaper than a
media converter (I know how much I paid for my media converter).
I wonder if you could use an old network card that had both 10Base2
and 10BaseT connections. I had an old Ansel ISA card with 4 10Base2
ports and 1 10BaseT and I've used it that way.
Cheers,
Chuck
2:50 p.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
I wonder if you could use an old network card that had
both 10Base2
and 10BaseT connections. I had an old Ansel ISA card with 4 10Base2
ports and 1 10BaseT and I've used it that way.
That sounds as though your caard had a built-in hub (was it really 4 BNCs
and one RJ45? I tould have thought the other way round would be more useful).
Mot cards with 2 network connectors (say 10base2 and 10baseT) simply have
the transceiver circuitry for each netowrk type, and a set of links to
connect either (but not both) to the ehternet chip. Now, you can't simply
connect 2 transceivers back-to-back to make a network converter, you need
a vit of loginc [1] to hanclde collisions, etc. And that logic wouldn't
be presset on a normal network card.
[]] I have an old device desigend to link a pair of transceivers (it has
a couple of AUI connectors on the back). It's quite complicated, there's
a RAM-based state machine linked to a couple of ehternet encoder/decoder
ICs, and a Z80-based microconttoller system to load the state machine RAM.
So I doubt you could use a network card as a media converter
Of course that logic is present in the chip you find in a 10baseT hub,
which is why you can use one of those as a converter.
-tony
6:55 p.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
On 6 May 2007 at 19:50, Tony Duell wrote:
That sounds as though your caard had a built-in hub
(was it really 4 BNCs
and one RJ45? I tould have thought the other way round would be more useful).
It was a long night--yes--it was 4 UTP and 1 BNC connector. AMD
LANCE chipset. It wasn't a bad idea--if you were running a server
for a small network, it did away with the need for a hub.
--Chuck
7:59 p.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
On 5/6/07, Tony Duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[]] I have an old device desigend to link a pair of
transceivers (it has
a couple of AUI connectors on the back). It's quite complicated, there's
a RAM-based state machine linked to a couple of ehternet encoder/decoder
ICs, and a Z80-based microconttoller system to load the state machine RAM.
I have something which appears to do the same job - link two AUI ports
together - it's larger than 2 transceivers, but I don't think it's
quite as complex inside - I thought it was just some clocking and some
signal buffering. I'll have to crack one open and see what's inside.
-ethan
9:59 p.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I have something which appears to do the same job -
link two AUI ports
together - it's larger than 2 transceivers, but I don't think it's
quite as complex inside - I thought it was just some clocking and some
signal buffering. I'll have to crack one open and see what's inside.
There are schematics for DEC's network concentrator DELNI with 8 AUI
ports on bitsavers.
-chuck
10:21 p.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
I think this may be what he is looking for. For a while Milan was part of
Digi.
http://www.milan.com/TransitionNetworks/Products2/Family.aspx?Name=J%2fE-CX…
I have found them for a few bucks in surplus shops before. I may still have
a few of them packed away somewhere.
--
www.blackcube.org - The Texas State Home for Wayward and Orphaned Computers
5 May
5 May
10:53 p.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
Hi, can anyone in the UK help out - i'm after a
bnc to utp connector to
attach my amiga to our utp ethernet network.
An old 8-port hub is also a nice converter...plug the hub on the network
and you have a thinnet port!
6 May
6 May
11:13 a.m.
New subject: 10base-2 to 10base-t media convertor?
stuart birchall said:
Hi, can anyone in the UK help out - i'm after a
bnc to utp connector to
attach my amiga to our utp ethernet network.
In contrast to the converters from AUI to TP or BNC where AUI has all the
signals you need to combine signals for TP, you basically need a special
transformer circuit, BNC->TP is not so simple. The typical circuit you are
looking for is an old 10MBit hub with BNC output, like the Centrecom
MR820TR I incidentally happen to use here at home in my local network.
Since noone nowadays still want to deal with that slow 10Mbits *) **), it
is likely to find such hubs in the dump or at eBay.
*) except the readers here
**) interestingly, people accept even lower speeds for WLANs where the
naming of the theoretical limits imply that one actually gets 11MBit/s as
nominal.
--
Holger
5 May
5 May
4:56 p.m.
WORST design "feature" --- the boards
are mounting to the inside side of
the cabinet and the PCB layout has the battery and the top center of the
board which over course eventually deteriorated, burst open and oozes
battery acid to all of the adjacent components and traces. That's
Who would think that some 30 years later it would still be used and
collected? ;o) But remember: Vinegar is your friend. Use vinegar to clean
the electrolyte from the battery and you'll be happy ;o) 
8:58 a.m.
On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 18:08 -0400, Curt @ Atari Museum wrote:
Yeah, no kidding....
In video arcade machines - games like Pole Position boards all had the
WORST design "feature" --- the boards are mounting to the inside side of
the cabinet and the PCB layout has the battery and the top center of the
board which over course eventually deteriorated, burst open and oozes
battery acid to all of the adjacent components and traces. That's
I've just replaced the battery and repaired some eaten tracks in my Korg
Polysix synth. That's exactly what had happened - the battery
electrolyte has eaten its way out of the battery, run down its leg, and
attacked one of the buffers for the data lines.
Gordon
4 May
4 May
5:21 p.m.
I've found that plain old detergent and warm water applied with a
scrub brush does an adequate job at getting the decayed foam out of
cabinet interiors (or any other place where water won't damage
things).
The worst thing IMOHO, to use is mineral spirits. The result is lots
of sticky black gunk. Really a hideous mess.
After I'm done with the water, if there's any adhesive left on the
surface, I'll then use mineral spirits to remove it.
Cheers,
Chuck
6:04 p.m.
You have to be careful with mineral wash type fluids and paint,
generally it is okay enough for quick clean off applications, but some
paints react to it if you leave it on for more then a minute and can
cause the paint to lift and flak off a few months later, I found this
out the hard way on a few cabinets.
If you don't mind repainting panels, then some good old WD40 will remove
just about anything ;-)
Curt
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I've found that plain old detergent and warm water
applied with a
scrub brush does an adequate job at getting the decayed foam out of
cabinet interiors (or any other place where water won't damage
things).
The worst thing IMOHO, to use is mineral spirits. The result is lots
of sticky black gunk. Really a hideous mess.
After I'm done with the water, if there's any adhesive left on the
surface, I'll then use mineral spirits to remove it.
Cheers,
Chuck
6:01 p.m.
Ian,
Strip it all out, clean down the surfaces and finish off with a
alcohol wipe down, apply fresh replacement of the foam. Don't leave
any of the original in the device, that stuff is just trouble waiting to
happen after so many years.
CUrt
Mr Ian Primus wrote:
As I have been collecting computers, I have noticed
that some pieces of equipment like printers and the
like, contain a lot of this awful foam stuff, most
likely for noise deadening. Time has caused this foam
to break down and turn to gunk, or at least a soft,
squshy material that does not spring back. It also
crumbles. IBM foam seems to be the worst, along with
the foam used on Zenith PC's, turning into a tarry
goo.
On the CDC drives I just picked up, the entire inside
of them is covered in this foam, some of it is
starting to come off, or has stuck to cables and such
inside. A couple smaller chunks of it literally fell
off one part of the cover, the glue only holding the
particular particles of the foam to which it was
attached, and the rest of the foam falling away.
What is the best thing to do about this, especially in
something as sensitive as a disk drive? Should I
remove it? What's the best method? Is there something
I can use to replace it?
Also, for instance, inside the cover of the PDP-11/84,
there is a thin slab of foam that has turned to crud.
I plan on removing this entirely - vacuuming away what
I can and cleaning the rest off with something - what
will dissolve this? I know that trying to get the gunk
from IBM foam off your hands is nearly impossible.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
-Ian
7:35 p.m.
On Fri, 4 May 2007, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
As I have been collecting computers, I have noticed
that some pieces of
equipment like printers and the like, contain a lot of this awful foam
stuff, most likely for noise deadening. Time has caused this foam to
break down and turn to gunk, or at least a soft, squshy material that
does not spring back. It also crumbles. IBM foam seems to be the worst,
along with the foam used on Zenith PC's, turning into a tarry goo.
Ugh. That stuff is notorious for causing trouble with older synthesizers
as well, especially Moogs. It was often went on top of the slider pots
with the actuators poking through slits. The idea was to keep dust out of
the pots.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
8:22 p.m.
At 1:50 PM -0700 5/4/07, Mr Ian Primus wrote:
As I have been collecting computers, I have noticed
that some pieces of equipment like printers and the
like, contain a lot of this awful foam stuff, most
likely for noise deadening. Time has caused this foam
to break down and turn to gunk, or at least a soft,
squshy material that does not spring back. It also
crumbles. IBM foam seems to be the worst, along with
the foam used on Zenith PC's, turning into a tarry
goo.
One of my first summer jobs - back in the late 60s - was at IBM in Toronto.
The job was to scrape off the nasty foam from the inside of keypunch
cases before they were sent down stream to be repainted...
Sigh...
John :-#)#
6260
days inactive
6263
days old
22 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chd_1＠nktelco.net -
curt＠atarimuseum.com -
dave.thearchivist＠gmail.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
gordon＠gjcp.net -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
holger.veit＠iais.fraunhofer.de -
ian_primus＠yahoo.com -
james.rice＠gmail.com -
jrr＠flippers.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
rtellason＠verizon.net -
stuart＠retrocomputing.tv