5 Nov
2006
5 Nov
'06
4:06 p.m.
Subject: Re: New monitors on old machines
From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 13:27:53 -0700
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
Fred Cisin wrote:
7) Three way switch at the other enough of the hall.
Allison
1) X10 (quite a bit more than 10 yrs old, controllable by TRS80)
2) train your dog how to work a light switch
3) switch with delay
4) auxiliary lighting in the hallway
5) Sleep on the sofa :)
6) Night light
7 Nov
7 Nov
2:12 p.m.
Allison wrote:
8) Stay where the light is (to paraphrase Kinison)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Help our electronic games project: http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
A child borne of the home computer wars: http://trixter.wordpress.com/
Fred Cisin
wrote:
7) Three way switch at the other enough of the hall. 1) X10 (quite a bit more than 10 yrs old,
controllable by TRS80)
2) train your dog how to work a light switch
3) switch with delay
4) auxiliary lighting in the hallway
5) Sleep on the sofa :)
6) Night light 
5:22 p.m.
--- Jim Leonard <trixter at oldskool.org> wrote:
Allison wrote:
7) Three way switch at the other enough of the hall.
8) Stay where the light is (to paraphrase Kinison)
9) the Clapper - clap on...clap off LOL
10) umm carry a pocket flashlight
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> Fred Cisin wrote:
>
>> 1) X10 (quite a bit more than 10 yrs old,
controllable by TRS80)
2) train your dog how to work a light switch
3) switch with delay
4) auxiliary lighting in the hallway
5) Sleep on the sofa :)
6) Night light 
2:35 p.m.
Rumor has it that Allison may have mentioned these words:
>
>Subject: Re: New monitors on old machines
> From: woodelf <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca>
>
>Fred Cisin wrote:
>
>>
>> 1) X10 (quite a bit more than 10 yrs old, controllable by TRS80)
my X10 setup won't work thru the ol' knob-n-tube (already tested
that) installed in my house -- depending on which circuit's going thru
which fuse. However, I've been slowly rewireing the place where I can -
specifically so I can use the X10 modules I have.
>> 2) train your dog how to work a light switch
He died a few months ago. :-(
>> 3) switch with delay
Hadn't thought of that... might have to check the lighting shops here to
see what they have in stock...
>> 4) auxiliary lighting in the hallway
No electro - and I don't want to go battery - that can get expensive when
the kiddies forget to turn off lights...
>5) Sleep on the sofa :)
Tried that - the back problems hurt worse than the stubbed toes! ;-)
>6) Night light
No electro - see above...
7) Three way switch at the other enough of the hall.
It's already on a three-way switch with the bottom of the stairs... do they
make 4-way switches?
And everyone forgot #8: Win a home remodeling contest so I can get $100,000
so I can afford to pay someone *else* to gut & redo the house in an
expedient manner. ;-)
But I'm still not silly for stumbling around in the dark.
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger | "Profile, don't speculate."
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | Daniel J. Bernstein
zmerch at 30below.com |
2:52 p.m.
7) Three way
switch at the other enough of the hall.
It's already on a three-way switch with
the bottom of the stairs...
do they make 4-way switches? 
4:39 p.m.
New subject: OT: 4-way light switches / was Re: New monitors on old machines
Roger Merchberger wrote:
>> 7) Three way switch at the other enough of
the hall.
> It's already on a three-way switch with the bottom of the stairs...
> do they make 4-way switches?
der Mouse wrote:
...
if you don't know the wiring and I'll outline it for you); I think
there even exist DPDTs pre-cross-wired to be total no-brainers for this
application.
Yes, there is such a thing as a 4-way switch in the standard
residential-light-switch-fits-in-a-wall-box-with-cover-plate style.
They are - obviously - sold in much smaller volume than the 2-way (SPST) or
3-way (SPDT) types so they are much more expensive (~$20 instead of ~$2). A
small hardware store probably won't have them, large places like Home Depot
probably do if you look in the right obscure corner, otherwise go to a
commercial electric parts supplier.
5:25 p.m.
On Tuesday 07 November 2006 14:52, der Mouse wrote:
Yes. You need two SPDTs (which you already have) plus as many DPDTs
as necessary to fill out the desired quota of switches (which means
just one of them, in your case). I've seen it done (at least for
three switches).
You need to cross-wire the DPDT, but that's no biggie (drop me a line
if you don't know the wiring and I'll outline it for you); I think
there even exist DPDTs pre-cross-wired to be total no-brainers for
this application.
Yes, in fact they're called a "4-way" switch at your local hardware or
electrical supply store (because they have 4 terminals).
There's some explanation complete with ASCII art diagrams here:
http://www.homeautomationindex.com/4waywire.html
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
7) Three way switch at the other enough of the hall.
It's already on a three-way switch with the bottom of the stairs...
do they make 4-way switches?
6:39 p.m.
Yes, in fact they're called a "4-way"
switch at your local hardware
or electrical supply store (because they have 4 terminals).
Ah! I'd always wondered why three-way switches were called three-way
when there are only two control points - and four-way switches four-way
when they give three, four, or more control points.
Thanks for explaining.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
8 Nov
8 Nov
5:14 p.m.
Yes, in fact they're called a
"4-way" switch at your local hardware
or electrical supply store (because they have 4 terminals).
Ah! I'd always wondered why three-way switches were called three-way
when there are only two control points - and four-way switches four-way
when they give three, four, or more control points. 
6:12 p.m.
On 8 Nov 2006 at 22:14, Tony Duell wrote:
This is one of those terms that is different in the UK
and the States,
then.
In fact, neither convention makes much sense. Most lighting switches
are 2-way; they're either in the "up" position or the "down"
position. SPST, SPDT, etc. make sense up to a point, but the US "4
way" switch, while technically a DPDT, is a 4 terminal design, not 6.
Even in the electronics business, the term DPDT can refer to a
switch with a center-off position or one without (i.e. a single
"throw").
Is there a better terminology available?
Cheers,
Chuck
7 Nov
7 Nov
5:38 p.m.
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Roger Merchberger wrote:
sorry.
IF you get your X10 working, "3-waY" X10 switches can have more than two
switches.
my X10 setup won't work thru the ol'
knob-n-tube (already tested
that) installed in my house -- depending on which circuit's going thru
which fuse. However, I've been slowly rewireing the place where I can -
specifically so I can use the X10 modules I have.
Works for me, so there may be additional factors.
IF that is an issue of 220 being split into two 110s, then a capacitor
bridge may solve it. Smarthome.com, etc. sell those if you don't want to
touch it.
OR,... using an RF control panel with a remote receiver permits you to
put RF remote receivers in multiple spots.
>> 2)
train your dog how to work a light switch
He died a few months ago. :-( 7) Three way
switch at the other enough of the hall.
It's already on a three-way switch with
the bottom of the stairs... do they
make 4-way switches? And everyone forgot #8: Win a home remodeling contest
so I can get $100,000
so I can afford to pay someone *else* to gut & redo the house in an
expedient manner. ;-)
But I'm still not silly for stumbling around in the dark.
whatever gets you through the night :-)
6:39 p.m.
It's already on a three-way switch with the bottom
of the stairs... do they
make 4-way switches?
I don't know if you do wiring the same way across the Pond, but over here
the classic 2-way switch circut has a SPDT (changeover, form C) switch at
each end, The fixed contacts are linked, that way there's a connection
betwwen the 2 moving contacts if the switches are set to the same
positions, and no connecion if theyr'e in opposite positons.
To get a 3-way switch you conenct an ;intermediate switch' in the 2 wires
that link the fixed conatacts of the 2 end switches. This switch is a
4-terminal device (obviously) and is electrically the same as a reversing
swithc (that is, a DPDT switch with the fixed contacts of the 2 poles
cross-coupled).
Since the intermeidate switch effectively reverses the connections
between the fixed contacts of the end switches, what you end up with is a
circuit where :
With the intermediate swithc in one state, theres a connection if the 2
outer switches are set the same way
And with the intermediate swtich in the other state there's a connection
if the 2 outer switches are set in opposite ways.
A moments though will make you realise this is nothing other than a
3-input partity generator.
And a bit more thought will show you that you can have as many
intermediate switches as you want. So a 4 way circuit can be obtained by
just adding one more intermediate switch.
-tony
8 Nov
8 Nov
4:54 a.m.
Roger Merchberger wrote:
You mean a two-way switch (single pole, double throw), and yes there is
a way to have three or more, if you use DPDT switches or a crossover
switch in the middle. Over here, the major manufacturers make
"crossover" or "changeover" light switches for exactly this purpose:
Conventional use of two two-way (SPDT) switches:
o-------------o
LIVE --------o--- ---o----------- BULB ------ NEUTRAL
o-------------o
If one switch is "up" and the other is "down", the light is off
If both switches are "up", the light is on
If both switches are "down", the light is on
Actually it's usually wired with one switch the other way up, so the
light is on if one is "up" and the other "down":
o---. .------o
LIVE --------o--- \/ ---o----------- BULB ------ NEUTRAL
o____/\o______o
Using three (or more) switches:
o----------o|o----------o
LIVE --------o--- --- ---o----- BULB ---- NEUTRAL
o----------o|o----------o
^^^^^^
crossover switch
connects upper left to upper right (and LL to LR)
or lower left to upper right (and UL to LR)
If one end switch is "up", and the other is "down", the
crossover
switch in the middle can switch current from the upper leg to the
lower, and turn the light on.
Another layout with a DPDT:
o--------------.------
o----------o--- |
LIVE --------o--- : o--------.------------
o------+ : | |
| : o--------+ |
+---o--- |
o--------------+
^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^
a DPDT switch with wiring arranged to switch
current from upper leg to lower leg
('o's are contacts, '.'s are connections,
':'s represent the mechanical linkage between
the poles)
You can extend this ad infinitum with additional crossover or DPDT switches.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Rumor has it that Allison may have mentioned these
words:
7) Three way
switch at the other enough of the hall.
It's already on a three-way switch with the bottom of the stairs... do
they make 4-way switches?
6547
days inactive
6550
days old
12 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
ajp166＠bellatlantic.net -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chrism3667＠yahoo.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
zmerch-cctalk＠30below.com