21 May
2019
21 May
'19
4:33 p.m.
The NCAR Wyoming Supercomputer Center has raised floors of about 20 feet. The auxilary
cooling and PDUs are installed down there. Needless to say, you don't pull a floor
tile there unless you are on the facility staff!
21 May
21 May
4:47 p.m.
On 5/21/19 5:33 PM, Craig Ruff via cctech wrote:
The NCAR Wyoming Supercomputer Center has raised
floors of about 20 feet.
Did the support posts go all the way down? Or was there some sort of
grid work that supported the raised floor above an open area that
contained the PDUs?
I ask because the PDUs in the DC in my office are wider (and longer)
than a floor tile. As such, it would require some special
accommodations if the support posts were 20 feet tall.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
22 May
22 May
12:42 a.m.
No firefighter in their right mind is going to knowingly pump a drop of
water anywhere near or in the direction of a data center, let alone into
it. That's why they're equipped with Halon or other oxygen displacement,
cooling, and flame suppression systems, and the FDs are equipped with
appropriate Class 2 (Electrical) firefighting equipment. FDs conduct
periodic inspections of all on-site fire-fighting equipment and the local
station shifts do walk-throughs to review their procedures. If any
hazardous materials are present (guaranteed in a DC), they're also taken
into account.
The FDs that serve industrial sites are equipped to fight fires where the
fuels can range from paper through plastics, up to actual petrochemical
fuels. I worked in the last semiconductor fab still operating in Silicon
Valley and worked with the City of Santa Clara FD on their plans, which had
to deal with the presence of extreme toxins and corrosives such as
hydrofluoric acid used to etch silicon wafers. They used to be responsible
for the Intel fab next door until it was shut down and the fab in
Hillsboro, OR, took over all R&D production. They said it was a nightmare
waiting to happen because of the volume of extremely hazardous chemicals
used on-site.
Someone should be sued and go to prison for signing off on permits that
would allow water to get anywhere near a DC - it's a violation of the
National Electric Code, for starters. If anyone sees something like that,
it should be reported immediately, and not within the organization, since
the facilities people are either incompetent or complicit in keeping quiet
about it. That's what anonymous.hotlines are for, and the media, if no
action occurs with the hotlines - we're talking about the possibility of
serious injury and death here.
On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:12 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 5/21/19 5:33 PM, Craig Ruff via cctech wrote:
The NCAR Wyoming Supercomputer Center has raised
floors of about 20 feet.
Did the support posts go all the way down? Or was there some sort of
grid work that supported the raised floor above an open area that
contained the PDUs?
I ask because the PDUs in the DC in my office are wider (and longer)
than a floor tile. As such, it would require some special
accommodations if the support posts were 20 feet tall.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
1:33 a.m.
ons 2019-05-22 klockan 01:42 -0600 skrev Jim Manley via cctalk:
No firefighter in their right mind is going to
knowingly pump a drop
of
water anywhere near or in the direction of a data center, let alone
into
it. That's why they're equipped with Halon or other oxygen
displacement,
cooling, and flame suppression systems, and the FDs are equipped with
appropriate Class 2 (Electrical) firefighting equipment. FDs conduct
periodic inspections of all on-site fire-fighting equipment and the
local
station shifts do walk-throughs to review their procedures. If any
hazardous materials are present (guaranteed in a DC), they're also
taken
into account.
Halon should be completely and fully illegal in civilian installations.
No excuses. Deionized water is just as effective.
(Halon is still permitted in EU in some military applications and
aircraft but the clock is ticking on the usage of halon in civil
aircraft.)
4:02 a.m.
On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 10:34, Stefan Skoglund via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Halon should be completely and fully illegal in
civilian installations.
In 1990 or 1991 I was inside a computer room when somebody
accidentally pushed an elbow into the fire emergency button.. and the
halon went off. Big room, many rows of tall racks. There were working
desks there too, so papers flew everywhere. I just ran for the
emergency exit door.
The folks in the roombs above later said they could feel the floor
coming up. This was a concrete building. All in all it was quite a
shocking experience.
1:45 a.m.
All true. Just sayin' that water can get into the DC even when it's not intended.
When fighting a fire in another part of a structure, the water may find it's way into
the DC.
Not sure about not allowing water to get near a dc, can you explain that statement?
The 2 Liebert a/c units that cooled the DC were located inside the room and were water
cooled so there was water around. I also remember the old IBM 3032 computers at my first
site needed chilled water to operate so there was a lot of piped water going into the
room.
The FD did regular inspections and it didn't seem to bother them in either case.
Funny, but Halon is outlawed and having it around did seem to bother them. It was replaced
with some other gas system that i can't remember the name.
On May 22, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Jim Manley via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
No firefighter in their right mind is going to knowingly pump a drop of
water anywhere near or in the direction of a data center, let alone into
it. That's why they're equipped with Halon or other oxygen displacement,
cooling, and flame suppression systems, and the FDs are equipped with
appropriate Class 2 (Electrical) firefighting equipment. FDs conduct
periodic inspections of all on-site fire-fighting equipment and the local
station shifts do walk-throughs to review their procedures. If any
hazardous materials are present (guaranteed in a DC), they're also taken
into account.
The FDs that serve industrial sites are equipped to fight fires where the
fuels can range from paper through plastics, up to actual petrochemical
fuels. I worked in the last semiconductor fab still operating in Silicon
Valley and worked with the City of Santa Clara FD on their plans, which had
to deal with the presence of extreme toxins and corrosives such as
hydrofluoric acid used to etch silicon wafers. They used to be responsible
for the Intel fab next door until it was shut down and the fab in
Hillsboro, OR, took over all R&D production. They said it was a nightmare
waiting to happen because of the volume of extremely hazardous chemicals
used on-site.
Someone should be sued and go to prison for signing off on permits that
would allow water to get anywhere near a DC - it's a violation of the
National Electric Code, for starters. If anyone sees something like that,
it should be reported immediately, and not within the organization, since
the facilities people are either incompetent or complicit in keeping quiet
about it. That's what anonymous.hotlines are for, and the media, if no
action occurs with the hotlines - we're talking about the possibility of
serious injury and death here.
On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:12 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> On 5/21/19 5:33 PM, Craig Ruff via cctech wrote:
>> The NCAR Wyoming Supercomputer Center has raised floors of about 20 feet.
>
> Did the support posts go all the way down? Or was there some sort of
> grid work that supported the raised floor above an open area that
> contained the PDUs?
>
> I ask because the PDUs in the DC in my office are wider (and longer)
> than a floor tile. As such, it would require some special
> accommodations if the support posts were 20 feet tall.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
1:50 a.m.
PS.. Sorry about the top posting. I'm old and i forgot.
Wayne
On May 22, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Wayne S <wayne.sudol
at hotmail.com> wrote:
All true. Just sayin' that water can get into the DC even when it's not intended.
When fighting a fire in another part of a structure, the water may find it's way into
the DC.
Not sure about not allowing water to get near a dc, can you explain that statement?
The 2 Liebert a/c units that cooled the DC were located inside the room and were water
cooled so there was water around. I also remember the old IBM 3032 computers at my first
site needed chilled water to operate so there was a lot of piped water going into the
room.
The FD did regular inspections and it didn't seem to bother them in either case.
Funny, but Halon is outlawed and having it around did seem to bother them. It was
replaced with some other gas system that i can't remember the name.
> On May 22, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Jim Manley via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
>
> No firefighter in their right mind is going to knowingly pump a drop of
> water anywhere near or in the direction of a data center, let alone into
> it. That's why they're equipped with Halon or other oxygen displacement,
> cooling, and flame suppression systems, and the FDs are equipped with
> appropriate Class 2 (Electrical) firefighting equipment. FDs conduct
> periodic inspections of all on-site fire-fighting equipment and the local
> station shifts do walk-throughs to review their procedures. If any
> hazardous materials are present (guaranteed in a DC), they're also taken
> into account.
>
> The FDs that serve industrial sites are equipped to fight fires where the
> fuels can range from paper through plastics, up to actual petrochemical
> fuels. I worked in the last semiconductor fab still operating in Silicon
> Valley and worked with the City of Santa Clara FD on their plans, which had
> to deal with the presence of extreme toxins and corrosives such as
> hydrofluoric acid used to etch silicon wafers. They used to be responsible
> for the Intel fab next door until it was shut down and the fab in
> Hillsboro, OR, took over all R&D production. They said it was a nightmare
> waiting to happen because of the volume of extremely hazardous chemicals
> used on-site.
>
> Someone should be sued and go to prison for signing off on permits that
> would allow water to get anywhere near a DC - it's a violation of the
> National Electric Code, for starters. If anyone sees something like that,
> it should be reported immediately, and not within the organization, since
> the facilities people are either incompetent or complicit in keeping quiet
> about it. That's what anonymous.hotlines are for, and the media, if no
> action occurs with the hotlines - we're talking about the possibility of
> serious injury and death here.
>
>
> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:12 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>>> On 5/21/19 5:33 PM, Craig Ruff via cctech wrote:
>>> The NCAR Wyoming Supercomputer Center has raised floors of about 20 feet.
>>
>> Did the support posts go all the way down? Or was there some sort of
>> grid work that supported the raised floor above an open area that
>> contained the PDUs?
>>
>> I ask because the PDUs in the DC in my office are wider (and longer)
>> than a floor tile. As such, it would require some special
>> accommodations if the support posts were 20 feet tall.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Grant. . . .
>> unix || die
>>
1:59 a.m.
Have to rephrase what i said about the Liebert units being water cooled. They used water
for humidity control not for cooling. They used regular refrigerant for that.
Wayne
On May 22, 2019, at 1:50 AM, Wayne S <wayne.sudol
at hotmail.com> wrote:
PS.. Sorry about the top posting. I'm old and i forgot.
Wayne
> On May 22, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Wayne S <wayne.sudol at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> All true. Just sayin' that water can get into the DC even when it's not
intended.
> When fighting a fire in another part of a structure, the water may find it's way
into the DC.
>
> Not sure about not allowing water to get near a dc, can you explain that statement?
> The 2 Liebert a/c units that cooled the DC were located inside the room and were
water cooled so there was water around. I also remember the old IBM 3032 computers at my
first site needed chilled water to operate so there was a lot of piped water going into
the room.
>
> The FD did regular inspections and it didn't seem to bother them in either case.
> Funny, but Halon is outlawed and having it around did seem to bother them. It was
replaced with some other gas system that i can't remember the name.
>
>
>
>> On May 22, 2019, at 12:43 AM, Jim Manley via cctalk <cctalk at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>> No firefighter in their right mind is going to knowingly pump a drop of
>> water anywhere near or in the direction of a data center, let alone into
>> it. That's why they're equipped with Halon or other oxygen
displacement,
>> cooling, and flame suppression systems, and the FDs are equipped with
>> appropriate Class 2 (Electrical) firefighting equipment. FDs conduct
>> periodic inspections of all on-site fire-fighting equipment and the local
>> station shifts do walk-throughs to review their procedures. If any
>> hazardous materials are present (guaranteed in a DC), they're also taken
>> into account.
>>
>> The FDs that serve industrial sites are equipped to fight fires where the
>> fuels can range from paper through plastics, up to actual petrochemical
>> fuels. I worked in the last semiconductor fab still operating in Silicon
>> Valley and worked with the City of Santa Clara FD on their plans, which had
>> to deal with the presence of extreme toxins and corrosives such as
>> hydrofluoric acid used to etch silicon wafers. They used to be responsible
>> for the Intel fab next door until it was shut down and the fab in
>> Hillsboro, OR, took over all R&D production. They said it was a nightmare
>> waiting to happen because of the volume of extremely hazardous chemicals
>> used on-site.
>>
>> Someone should be sued and go to prison for signing off on permits that
>> would allow water to get anywhere near a DC - it's a violation of the
>> National Electric Code, for starters. If anyone sees something like that,
>> it should be reported immediately, and not within the organization, since
>> the facilities people are either incompetent or complicit in keeping quiet
>> about it. That's what anonymous.hotlines are for, and the media, if no
>> action occurs with the hotlines - we're talking about the possibility of
>> serious injury and death here.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 11:12 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
>> cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 5/21/19 5:33 PM, Craig Ruff via cctech wrote:
>>>> The NCAR Wyoming Supercomputer Center has raised floors of about 20
feet.
>>>
>>> Did the support posts go all the way down? Or was there some sort of
>>> grid work that supported the raised floor above an open area that
>>> contained the PDUs?
>>>
>>> I ask because the PDUs in the DC in my office are wider (and longer)
>>> than a floor tile. As such, it would require some special
>>> accommodations if the support posts were 20 feet tall.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Grant. . . .
>>> unix || die
>>>
3:57 a.m.
ons 2019-05-22 klockan 08:45 +0000 skrev Wayne S via cctalk:
All true. Just sayin' that water can get into the
DC even when it's
not intended.
When fighting a fire in another part of a structure, the water may
find it's way into the DC.
Not sure about not allowing water to get near a dc, can you explain
that statement?
The 2 Liebert a/c units that cooled the DC were located inside the
room and were water cooled so there was water around. I also remember
the old IBM 3032 computers at my first site needed chilled water to
operate so there was a lot of piped water going into the room.
The FD did regular inspections and it didn't seem to bother them in
either case.
Funny, but Halon is outlawed and having it around did seem to bother
them. It was replaced with some other gas system that i can't
remember the name.
It is a gas bottle with gas under pressure - they dont like getting hot
they become explosive in that case.
halon is also very much oxygen depriving ie asphyxiating.
6 a.m.
On May 22, 2019, at 6:57 AM, Stefan Skoglund via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
ons 2019-05-22 klockan 08:45 +0000 skrev Wayne S via cctalk:
Nitrogen. I remember seeing an installation with a whole row of compressed nitrogen
bottles, looking a lot like a row of welding gas tanks. It came with major warning signs
about the danger to personnel when it goes off.
I think Halon is far less dangerous because it doesn't just work by displacing oxygen,
though the details escape me.
paul
...
Funny, but Halon is outlawed and having it around did seem to bother
them. It was replaced with some other gas system that i can't
remember the name.
It is a gas bottle with gas under pressure - they dont like getting hot
they become explosive in that case. 
7:23 a.m.
On 2019-05-22 10:00 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
It was reputed that you could breath the halon making it easier to exit
the room.? One of the big dangers from halon discharge in a room with a
raised floor was the under floor nozzles would fling floor tiles up into
the air and also raise a lot of dust.? A coworker that was in a room
during a halon dump broke a leg falling into the hole left by a
displaced tile while running for the door.? Most flooding systems gave a
warning alarm before they actually discharged and had an override so
that the automatic system could be stopped.? I was never in a room
during a discharge but I have seen video of it.? I have also heard
stories of it displacing enough floor tiles to affect the stability of
the floor leading to a collapse of the floor supports and all the
equipment ending up resting on top of cables and everything else under
the floor.
Previously there where comments made about plumbing under the floor, in
my experience it was pretty common for water cooled equipment and also
for air conditioners that used chilled water for cooling.? The current
water cooled systems I am familiar with have a coolant loop inside the
rack that includes heat exchangers that? is separate from the building
chilled water supply.? Inside the machines there are "water" blocks in
direct contact with CPUs and memory and also sometimes the back door of
the rack has a heat exchanger built into it.? Hot air exits out the back
and is cooled by the back door the intent is to reduce the load on room
air conditioning.
Paul.
Halon was banned because it was implicated as one of the chemicals that
damaged the ozone layer.? I recall one customer that had a CO2 flooding
system
On May 22, 2019, at 6:57 AM, Stefan Skoglund via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
ons 2019-05-22 klockan 08:45 +0000 skrev Wayne S via cctalk:
Nitrogen. I remember seeing an installation
with a whole row of compressed nitrogen bottles, looking a lot like a row of welding gas
tanks. It came with major warning signs about the danger to personnel when it goes off.
I think Halon is far less dangerous because it doesn't just work by displacing
oxygen, though the details escape me.
paul
...
Funny, but Halon is outlawed and having it around did seem to bother
them. It was replaced with some other gas system that i can't
remember the name.
It is a gas bottle with gas under pressure - they dont like getting hot
they become explosive in that case. 
8:08 a.m.
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 3:43 AM Jim Manley via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
Someone should be sued and go to prison for signing
off on permits that
would allow water to get anywhere near a DC - it's a violation of the
National Electric Code, for starters. If anyone sees something like that,
it should be reported immediately, and not within the organization, since
the facilities people are either incompetent or complicit in keeping quiet
about it. That's what anonymous.hotlines are for, and the media, if no
action occurs with the hotlines - we're talking about the possibility of
serious injury and death here.
Purdue's insurer REQUIRES fire sprinklers in data centers. And it's not
atypical from what I've heard. They are all dry, pre-action systems, which
eliminate most of the danger of it accidentally dumping water. It's
unlikely that with a dry pipe, pre-action system water will be dumped
somewhere that a person is standing without warning[0]. These days,
equipment is easy to replace (compared to classic systems) given a good DR
plan and a good insurance provider.
The NEC also requires[1] an EPO system to shut off all power sources
(including any UPS). I'm pretty sure that any fire that required a hose to
be pulled off of a truck would first result in the power being shut off.
The experiences that I've had with non-water based fire suppression systems
is that they're way too twitchy, and likely to go off because (another[2])
HPE server in the datacenter released its magic smoke. Standard sprinklers
only affect the area where the fire set them off, and don't have to douse
your whole multi-1000 sq ft data center.
0. Generally, multiple smoke/heat detectors have to be triggered before the
sprinkler system is charged with water.
1. The NEC isn't always followed when management decides there should be an
exception. Insurance company guidelines are followed because not following
them has a tangible cost. No one is going to be sued/go to prison for
this, at least here.
2. In our experience, HPE servers tend to (internally) catch fire and
release smoke at a rate of around 10-to-1 vs the Dell servers we've had.
Pat
(Standing back and looking at the mess he made of cctalk... Sorry, Jay.)
8:41 a.m.
On 5/22/19 9:08 AM, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:
Purdue's insurer REQUIRES fire sprinklers in data
centers.
Both of the data centers / raised floors in my office have fire
sprinklers. I don't know if they lines are charged or dry. (I'll inquire.)
The local fire department does a walk through spot check quarterly (if
not more frequent b/c we give them lunch in our cafeteria) and annual
full inspection of the fire detection and suppression system.
I also know for a fact that the DCs do have plumbing under the raised
floor because I've heard talk about an automatic drain flush system that
was historically used. (I'm not sure it's used any more.) I've also
heard the maintenance crew talk about taking five gallon buckets of
water into the DC to manually flush drains.
I've also heard of not infrequent stories of condensation from
(overhead) air ducts dripping in the DC.
There's also the occasional leak during a heavy storm where non-trivial
amounts of water come in through said duct work.
I've got a different horror story from a job 20 years ago where water
would seep through the sidewalk onto an old IBM mainframe. They kept
plastic up most of the time and had drip trays with drain connections
that sat on top of equipment.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:56 a.m.
New subject: Apple ][+ Keyboard
I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole with this old ][ europlus I've
had for years.
The smoke came out of the power supply, so I replaced it with one from
ReactiveMicro. Now it boots, and was working okay, until this morning.
Now, no keyboard <except> if you hit ctrl-reset. All other keys are
ignored.
Anyone have any ideas? (:
Thanks,
John (aka Mark)
9 a.m.
New subject: Apple ][+ Keyboard
Just ran across this a few days ago on different search...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/kJ4SosdZTb4
May have some helpful info.
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:56 AM John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole with
this old ][ europlus I've
had for years.
The smoke came out of the power supply, so I replaced it with one from
ReactiveMicro. Now it boots, and was working okay, until this morning.
Now, no keyboard <except> if you hit ctrl-reset. All other keys are
ignored.
Anyone have any ideas? (:
Thanks,
John (aka Mark)
23 May
23 May
5:22 a.m.
New subject: Apple ][+ Keyboard
Hi Brian,
That's an interesting thread. It probably is the encoder chip as hitting
Ctrl-Reset works. Unfortunately Briel Computers doesn't seem to exist
anymore. ):
This seems like a temporary solution. I need to collect the stuff to build
one:
https://knzl.at/ps2-keyboard-for-apple-ii/
Thanks!
Mark
On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 17:00, Brian Marstella <brian at marstella.net> wrote:
Just ran across this a few days ago on different
search...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/kJ4SosdZTb4
May have some helpful info.
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:56 AM John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole
with this old ][ europlus I've
had for years.
The smoke came out of the power supply, so I replaced it with one from
ReactiveMicro. Now it boots, and was working okay, until this morning.
Now, no keyboard <except> if you hit ctrl-reset. All other keys are
ignored.
Anyone have any ideas? (:
Thanks,
John (aka Mark)
5:33 a.m.
New subject: Apple ][+ Keyboard
- There are lots of PS2 adapters on the market, I made one myself
- There are lots of PS2 to apple II schematics avaiable. One of them uses
just ONE PIC ?C
- The keyboard encoder was reverse-engineered by Victor Trucco, and I
believe I've seen others around
Lots of options :)
---8<---Corte aqui---8<---
http://www.tabajara-labs.blogspot.com
http://www.tabalabs.com.br
---8<---Corte aqui---8<---
Em qui, 23 de mai de 2019 ?s 09:22, John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> escreveu:
Hi Brian,
That's an interesting thread. It probably is the encoder chip as hitting
Ctrl-Reset works. Unfortunately Briel Computers doesn't seem to exist
anymore. ):
This seems like a temporary solution. I need to collect the stuff to build
one:
https://knzl.at/ps2-keyboard-for-apple-ii/
Thanks!
Mark
On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 17:00, Brian Marstella <brian at marstella.net> wrote:
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
Just ran across this a few days ago on different
search...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/kJ4SosdZTb4
May have some helpful info.
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:56 AM John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole with this old ][ europlus
I've
had for
years.
The smoke came out of the power supply, so I replaced it with one from
ReactiveMicro. Now it boots, and was working okay, until this morning.
Now, no keyboard <except> if you hit ctrl-reset. All other keys are
ignored.
Anyone have any ideas? (:
Thanks,
John (aka Mark)
6:08 a.m.
New subject: Apple ][+ Keyboard
Hi Mark,
I have a contact in Belgium who has made some PS2 adapter PCBs if you'd
like me to put you in contact, he was advertising them on Facebook a week
or so ago.
--
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 13:22, John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi Brian,
That's an interesting thread. It probably is the encoder chip as hitting
Ctrl-Reset works. Unfortunately Briel Computers doesn't seem to exist
anymore. ):
This seems like a temporary solution. I need to collect the stuff to build
one:
https://knzl.at/ps2-keyboard-for-apple-ii/
Thanks!
Mark
On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 17:00, Brian Marstella <brian at marstella.net> wrote:
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
Just ran across this a few days ago on different
search...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/kJ4SosdZTb4
May have some helpful info.
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:56 AM John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole with this old ][ europlus
I've
had for
years.
The smoke came out of the power supply, so I replaced it with one from
ReactiveMicro. Now it boots, and was working okay, until this morning.
Now, no keyboard <except> if you hit ctrl-reset. All other keys are
ignored.
Anyone have any ideas? (:
Thanks,
John (aka Mark)
7:01 a.m.
New subject: Apple ][+ Keyboard
That would be great. I'd really appreciate it.
On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 14:08, Adrian Graham via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi Mark,
I have a contact in Belgium who has made some PS2 adapter PCBs if you'd
like me to put you in contact, he was advertising them on Facebook a week
or so ago.
--
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 13:22, John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
morning.
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
Hi Brian,
That's an interesting thread. It probably is the encoder chip as hitting
Ctrl-Reset works. Unfortunately Briel Computers doesn't seem to exist
anymore. ):
This seems like a temporary solution. I need to collect the stuff to
build
one:
https://knzl.at/ps2-keyboard-for-apple-ii/
Thanks!
Mark
On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 17:00, Brian Marstella <brian at marstella.net>
wrote:
Just ran across this a few days ago on different
search...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/kJ4SosdZTb4
May have some helpful info.
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:56 AM John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole with this old ][ europlus
I've
>> had for years.
>>
>> The smoke came out of the power supply, so I replaced it with one from
>> ReactiveMicro. Now it boots, and was working okay, until this Now, no keyboard <except> if you hit ctrl-reset.
All other keys are
ignored.
Anyone have any ideas? (:
Thanks,
John (aka Mark)
7:31 a.m.
New subject: Apple ][+ Keyboard
Weird... now I've pulled it apart (taken the case off and pulled out the
keyboard... and I get many wrong characters instead of no characters...
Hmmm. I wonder what happens if you take all the screws out of this thing?
I hope it's not like an IBM AT keyboard and 83 tiny springs fly out...
On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 15:01, John Many Jars <john at yoyodyne-propulsion.net>
wrote:
That would be great. I'd really appreciate it.
On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 14:08, Adrian Graham via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
Hi Mark,
I have a contact in Belgium who has made some PS2 adapter PCBs if you'd
like me to put you in contact, he was advertising them on Facebook a week
or so ago.
--
adrian/witchy
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
t: @binarydinosaurs f: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk
On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 13:22, John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
from
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
Hi Brian,
That's an interesting thread. It probably is the encoder chip as
hitting
Ctrl-Reset works. Unfortunately Briel Computers
doesn't seem to exist
anymore. ):
This seems like a temporary solution. I need to collect the stuff to
build
one:
https://knzl.at/ps2-keyboard-for-apple-ii/
Thanks!
Mark
On Wed, 22 May 2019 at 17:00, Brian Marstella <brian at marstella.net>
wrote:
Just ran across this a few days ago on different
search...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.apple2/kJ4SosdZTb4
May have some helpful info.
On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:56 AM John Many Jars via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole with this old ][ europlus
I've
>> had for years.
>>
>> The smoke came out of the power supply, so I replaced it with one >> ReactiveMicro. Now it boots, and was
working okay, until this
morning.
> Now,
no keyboard <except> if you hit ctrl-reset. All other keys are
> ignored.
>
> Anyone have any ideas? (:
>
> Thanks,
>
> John (aka Mark)
>
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." -- Jonathan Swift
7:36 a.m.
New subject: Apple ][+ Keyboard
On 2019-05-22 11:56, John Many Jars via cctech wrote:
I feel like I'm falling down a rabbit hole with
this old ][ europlus
I've
had for years.
The smoke came out of the power supply, so I replaced it with one from
ReactiveMicro. Now it boots, and was working okay, until this morning.
Now, no keyboard <except> if you hit ctrl-reset. All other keys are
ignored.
Anyone have any ideas? (:
Thanks,
John (aka Mark)
I've had that issue. If you or someone over the years accidentally
plugged in the keyboard cable wrong, it blows one or both of the 7400's
and if you are unlucky, the unobtainable keyboard encoder. They could of
course also break from a PSU surge or static.
--
-Pete Rittwage
8:11 a.m.
On 5/22/19 9:41 AM, Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:
Both of the data centers / raised floors in my office
have fire
sprinklers.? I don't know if they lines are charged or dry.? (I'll
inquire.)
I received an answer this morning stating that the fire sprinklers in
the DC are "charged with air and if a sprinkler head goes off the air
pressure releases but it will not flow water unless one other fire
system device (smoke head pull station etc..) is activated."
So there is the possibility ~> likelihood that water will be pumped into
the DC if a sprinkler head opens and another Indicator of Fire ;-)
activates.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
12:18 p.m.
Purdue's insurer REQUIRES fire sprinklers in data
centers. And it's not
atypical from what I've heard. They are all dry, pre-action systems, which
eliminate most of the danger of it accidentally dumping water. It's
unlikely that with a dry pipe, pre-action system water will be dumped
somewhere that a person is standing without warning[0]. These days,
equipment is easy to replace (compared to classic systems) given a good DR
plan and a good insurance provider.
Most systems do air first (pre action) while triggering the PDU/UPS
systems to shut off first but some X seconds later water is coming out.
Out of the sprinkler head that was broken, not all heads?
The NEC also requires[1] an EPO system to shut off all
power sources
(including any UPS). I'm pretty sure that any fire that required a hose to
be pulled off of a truck would first result in the power being shut off.
I'm sitting in a fairly large multi-tenant datacenter right now and there
are no EPO buttons. There might be somewhere on a UPS or PDU somewhere,
but nothing I could hit. The amount of damage from doing so would be
horrendus. The employees of the facility might have access to something,
but I would hope it's zoned out.
HPE server in the datacenter released its magic smoke.
Standard sprinklers
only affect the area where the fire set them off, and don't have to douse
your whole multi-1000 sq ft data center.
Right, and smoke sets off the smoke alarm. It takes actual heat to burst
the liquid thing that pops and lets the sprinkler head open. It's not
electronically controlled I would think? Not like the movie "hackers"
would portray?
2. In our experience, HPE servers tend to (internally)
catch fire and
release smoke at a rate of around 10-to-1 vs the Dell servers we've had.
Dell BIOS/Lifecycle crud is so slow and horrible :-( . Huge turd. Haven't
seen any HP boxes go up. Had thousands of Supermicro boxes at prior gig
and while the power supplies had engineering flaws never really saw one
put out smoke (sample size possibly 5 digit # of servers.)
--
: Ethan O'Toole
2:28 p.m.
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
From: Ethan O'Toole via cctalk<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 12:19 PM
To: Patrick Finnegan<mailto:pat at vax11.net>; General Discussion: On-Topic and
Off-Topic Posts<mailto:cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Raised Floors
Purdue's insurer REQUIRES fire sprinklers in data
centers. And it's not
atypical from what I've heard. They are all dry, pre-action systems, which
eliminate most of the danger of it accidentally dumping water. It's
unlikely that with a dry pipe, pre-action system water will be dumped
somewhere that a person is standing without warning[0]. These days,
equipment is easy to replace (compared to classic systems) given a good DR
plan and a good insurance provider.
Most systems do air first (pre action) while triggering the PDU/UPS
systems to shut off first but some X seconds later water is coming out.
Out of the sprinkler head that was broken, not all heads?
Fire Sprinkler heads have bulbs with a liquid (many kinds based upon what the temperature
is that they expand) that burst when a specific temp is reached thus allowing the water to
flow. They operate independently of each other under the theory that the one that bursts
first is closest to the fire and should be allowed to have the maximum pressure and water
flow.
The NEC also requires[1] an EPO system to shut off all
power sources
(including any UPS). I'm pretty sure that any fire that required a hose to
be pulled off of a truck would first result in the power being shut off.
I'm sitting in a fairly large multi-tenant datacenter right now and there
are no EPO buttons. There might be somewhere on a UPS or PDU somewhere,
but nothing I could hit. The amount of damage from doing so would be
horrendus. The employees of the facility might have access to something,
but I would hope it's zoned out.
Some systems have the EPO outside the room in a fairly secure location (IE. locked room)
to prevent someone accidentally or maliciously setting it off and causing damage. Sounds
wrong, but the idea is that if there is a fire the sensors in the room will activate the
EPO. So no one should be manually turning power off unless they are properly authorized,
as shutting it off will cause false positives in other areas, like activating the fire
alarm system and autodialing the fire department and possibly the police too.
That said, I have seen a ?Delay? button, which, when pressed, would delay system
activation until a few seconds after it was released. This was in a really large
datacenter where an alarm would sound when activation was imminent and the system would
activate 20 seconds later. Someone working on equipment might not have time to get out of
the room before activation. The room was large enough and had a smaller ?forms? room and
a IBM tech room with separate doors so people could be in those rooms and not react fast
enough to get out in time. The delay was so that someone could give everyone enough time
to get out of the room before the system activated. Yes, there was a phone next to the
button so that maintenance could be called to reset everything if it was a false alarm.
HPE server in the datacenter released its magic smoke.
Standard sprinklers
only affect the area where the fire set them off, and don't have to douse
your whole multi-1000 sq ft data center.
Right, and smoke sets off the smoke alarm. It takes actual heat to burst
the liquid thing that pops and lets the sprinkler head open. It's not
electronically controlled I would think? Not like the movie "hackers"
would portray?
2. In our experience, HPE servers tend to (internally)
catch fire and
release smoke at a rate of around 10-to-1 vs the Dell servers we've had.
Dell BIOS/Lifecycle crud is so slow and horrible :-( . Huge turd. Haven't
seen any HP boxes go up. Had thousands of Supermicro boxes at prior gig
and while the power supplies had engineering flaws never really saw one
put out smoke (sample size possibly 5 digit # of servers.)
--
: Ethan O'Toole
21 May
21 May
5:19 p.m.
Interesting.
The arguments I?ve heard from a few data center builders/managers is that the main factor
in how a DC is built is that can the business be insured against catastrophic loss. It has
to meet all fire codes and has to be reasonably resistant to unforeseen catastrophes, like
flooding and earthquakes.
For instance, in the event of an earthquake, equipment should be anchored to the floor so
that it won?t fall over in an and no wiring should be able to short out. Ups power should
be out of the room in case of fire so that the firemen can shut it off or else they won?t
go into the room because of the shock hazard so the equipment will probably be lost until
the fire burns out. And you probably won?t have business continuity insurance. Water
hazard is a big one. A/C water leaks, water/liquid from firemen and fire suppression
systems, and water supply leaks damage equipment, so if you build on the first floor a
slightly raised floor with a drain in it will usually pass insurance inspection. Above
the first floor then a flat floor with somewhere for liquids to go is probably okay. Also
depends on the computer equipment in the room. If everything is in racks at least a few
inches above the floor, where liquid can build up, then it?s probably going to be okay.
If they sit on the floor then not so good.
If the DC is in the basement below sewer pipe level, then you need to take some extra
precautions to provide somewhere for the water to go.
I?ve been involved in 3 incidents regarding water at different sites? One where a drain
pipe cap in another part of the building popped off during a heavy rainstorm and rainwater
somehow flooded the computer room. No damage because the room was raised floor with 6 feet
underneath. Another time a 12? water main in the cafeteria broke and flooded everything.
That was a lot of water ? took a long time to shut off. Computer room was okay because of
raised floor, and because the water ran out the front of the building, just had to soak
up the water with rags, but people outside the room who had towers sitting on the floor
lost them. You could actually see the highwater mark on the computers. Third time was the
roof leaked over the computer room during a rainstorm and water got in. The DC was a
non-raised floor on the second floor so the water ran under the doors and down the
stairs.
________________________________
From: cctech <cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Craig Ruff via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:33:07 PM
To: cctech at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Raised Floors
The NCAR Wyoming Supercomputer Center has raised floors of about 20 feet. The auxilary
cooling and PDUs are installed down there. Needless to say, you don't pull a floor
tile there unless you are on the facility staff!
1821
days inactive
1823
days old
24 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
alexandre.tabajara＠gmail.com -
binarydinosaurs＠gmail.com -
brian＠marstella.net -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
cruff＠ruffspot.net -
ethan＠757.org -
jim.manley＠gmail.com -
john＠yoyodyne-propulsion.net -
kspt.tor＠gmail.com -
pat＠vax11.net -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
peter＠rittwage.com -
phb.hfx＠gmail.com -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net -
wayne.sudol＠hotmail.com