9 Apr
1997
9 Apr
'97
4:45 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Mr. Paul E Coad spake thusly unto us:
This raises the question of how people got into this
hobby. Was it
a single event or something which happened over time (with or without
you being aware of it?)
Well, I'm not sure whether there was a single event that got me
started (other than an offer of my original Nova 1210), but I can
honestly state that there was an event that made me get serious about
the preservation of older machines.
That event was my missing the acquisition of a PDP-15 by about a
half-hour in 1987. I had expressed an interest in the machine, and was
told that it was going to scrap _very soon_, so I should grab what I
wanted. I was going to try and make arrangements to get the machine
picked up (it was fully configured and quite large) and get the machine
home. I arrived (hurriedly) to do an initial disassembly and triage
on the system, only to find that the bone man had come earler in the
hour, and all that was left of the system was an empty space where it
once was. I knew then that -15s weren't very common, and when I realised
that the count had just dropped by one, I was fairly beside myself.
Other than that anecdote, I've been collecting for about 10 years
or so; my stash is fairly well focussed on minicomputers, although I
do have the odd micro here and there. Minicomputers are where I desire
to keep my energies, especially those of DG manufacture. With DG, at
its' peak, being only 1/5 the size of DEC those machines are pretty
hard to come by nowadays. Any leads, of course, would be vastly
appreciated. :-)
While I'm greatly pleased that folks are preserving microcomputers,
I've never felt a "bond" to that particular realm of design. I like
things like time-states, core memory, and pulse-logic. I guess that
makes me an "old fart".
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
9 Apr
9 Apr
6:19 p.m.
> This raises the question of how people got into
this hobby. Was it
> a single event or something which happened over time (with or without
> you being aware of it?)
I first ran into several boxes of DEC Flip-Chip modules at a flea market
(general, not a ham/computer fest). I purchased the lot, hoping to scrap
them. I never did part them out, but rather stuck them on a shelf
inserted into the supplied backplane (it looked neat, with all of the
green and magenta handles). I then ran into the DEC bible, _Computer
Architecture_, and decided I needed to get into this stuff. A few
hamfests later, while picking thru some LSI-11 boards, a man offered me
an old DEC machine for $5. Of course I bought it. That PDP-8/s was my
first machine (and my first adventure in moving a big rack).
Other machines, mostly micros and DEC stuff, was aquired piece by piece.
Nearly all were purchased at hamfests, although my other monsters came
from my old school and my employer.
The collection also got a boost when my first contact (the guy with the
8/s), called and said he had found more computer stuff for me. Thinking
it was stuff for the PDP-8/s, I told him to come over. He did, and left
me with my front yard covered with stuff from the dawn of the
microcomputer era (nearly all M68 based - SWTPC, Sphere, etc.). I still
do not know exactly what I have. I started sorting thew miles of paper
tape (DEC PDP-8/Interdata/M68/misc.), but am still swamped.
I then lost interest, and my machines sat for a few years (nothing
scrapped, as I knew it deserved better). It was you lot that drew me back
in!
That event was my missing the acquisition of a
PDP-15 by about a
half-hour in 1987.
Does anyone know how many of the 18-bitters were produced, and how many
survive?
Any leads, of course, would be vastly
appreciated. :-)
Maybe I am stating the obvious, but if anyone knows of any old minis
slated for the scrap yard, post it on the list! The loss of that PDP-15
is tragic, as they are so rare, and perhaps in the future can be avoided.
Micros, being small and nearly worthless to the scrapmen, survive much
better.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
10 Apr
10 Apr
5:55 a.m.
This raises
the question of how people got into this hobby. Was it
a single event or something which happened over time (with or without
you being aware of it?)
Well, I'm not sure whether there was a single event that got me
started (other than an offer of my original Nova 1210), but I can
honestly state that there was an event that made me get serious about
the preservation of older machines. While I'm greatly pleased that folks are
preserving microcomputers,
I've never felt a "bond" to that particular realm of design. I like
things like time-states, core memory, and pulse-logic. I guess that
makes me an "old fart".
Ditto. I have micros, I use micros, and heck, I even restore micros, but
given the choice I'll pick a multi-chip CPU any day. Hand-stepping
microcode is great fun...
BTW, I have nothing made by DG, so if anyone knows of one being given away
in the UK (or sold for a reasonable amount), please get in touch.
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) |
West Boylston |
--
-tony
ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk
The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill
10:30 a.m.
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote:
While I'm greatly pleased that folks are
preserving microcomputers,
I've never felt a "bond" to that particular realm of design. I like
things like time-states, core memory, and pulse-logic. I guess that
makes me an "old fart".
You probably have space to burn. As it is my fiance has a hard time with
my hobby. Just wait until I find my first mainframe and try to store it
in the garage. To say the least I'll run into some opposition.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
10:56 a.m.
I guess I don't collect so much as use. I'm getting into "trailing
edge"
computing (ie old 8 and 16 bit computers) because they solve problems for
me as well as making me smile and remember the good old days. As an example,
my father has been using a laser 128 (apple2e clone) since it was new to do
his word processing. I am currently putting him together an apple2gs system
so he can still do his word processing as well as having a graphical web
browser, and a system fast enough to support a modern modem so I can get him
on the net. He does research in geniology, so this will be valuable to him.
Also, I have an hplx200 palmtop. it is essentially an 8088 xt in a package
the size of two cassette tape boxes end to end. I find myself using
software from the mid to late 80s constantly to live in its small memory
map and CGA screen.
It also does warm the cockles of my heart that some brilliant hack that someone
came up with a decade ago to work within the hardware constraints of the day
and do something insanely useful - will STILL be useful to me. Moreso because
if it's a DOS thing I can carry the computer in my pocket.
--
Jim Strickland
jim(a)calico.litterbox.com
--
By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion.
Through beans of java thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes.
The shakes become a warning - I am in control of my addiction!
By Caffeine alone my mind is set in motion.
Adapted from the Mentat chant of _Dune_
5:04 p.m.
I guess I don't collect so much as use. I'm getting into "trailing
edge"
I wonder how many others on this list don't even own a non-classic
computer? I think all the machines I use would count, even the much-hacked
AT I use for most general computing these days still has the original IBM
motherboard (although with a 486 kludge-board in place of the 80286) and
I/O cards built from row upon row of TTL chips
My IBM XT (true-blue) runs my EPROM programmer, GAL programmer, cable
tester, I2C tester, etc. My PC/AT runs my PIC programmer, and does a bit
of word processing. For real programming I have a PDP8 on my desk (:-)), a
PDP11 in a 6' rack in the corner, and a PERQ alongside it. Then there are
plenty of other machines (CP/M, OS9, etc) that I can get out and set up in
a couple of minutes when I want to use them.
If I was given the latest Pentium PC, with all the current options (I'm so
old-fashioned, I have no idea what is current in the PC line any more
;-)), I'd probably sell it and take the money to the next radio rally
(Hamfest) and buy all the classic computers, test equipments and
boatanchor radios that I could find. Modern PCs are so badly built and
documented that quite simply I don't want one.
The older machines are still quite capable of doing useful work, and I see
no reason not to use them.
It also does warm the cockles of my heart that some
brilliant hack that someone
came up with a decade ago to work within the hardware constraints of the day
and do something insanely useful - will STILL be useful to me. Moreso because
if it's a DOS thing I can carry the computer in my pocket.
When I look at the software (and hardware) of 10-15 years ago, I realise
how far _down_ we've gone since then.
Jim Strickland
--
-tony
ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk
The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill
4:50 p.m.
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote:
Well, I've not got a mainframe _yet_, and I have no idea where I'd put one
if I did...
BUT, a minicomputer doesn't take up that much more floor area than a
micro. A 6' rack (say something like a DEC H960) takes up about the same
area as a PC + printer (actually a bit less), and holds a CPU and a few
drives. OK, so if most of your collection is packed away in cupboards,
then storing a mini is a bit harder, but they're not as big as some people
think.
In general, minicomputer boxes (the bits that slot into the rack) are a
lot easier to store than micros, even without the rack. They stack up in
the corner of a room quite easily - they're mostly flat-topped boxes, and
are strong enough to stack, unlike micros, which (IMHO) are often
impossible to store, especially the ones with built-in keyboards which
simply refuse to stack :-)
Of course convincing your SO that a 6' rack is a perfectly normal item of
furniture is left as an exercise....
While I'm greatly pleased that folks are
preserving microcomputers,
I've never felt a "bond" to that particular realm of design. I like
things like time-states, core memory, and pulse-logic. I guess that
makes me an "old fart".
You probably have space to burn. As it is my fiance has a hard time with
my hobby. Just wait until I find my first mainframe and try to store it
in the garage. To say the least I'll run into some opposition.
Sam
--
-tony
ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk
The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill
5:15 p.m.
On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, A.R. Duell wrote:
In general, minicomputer boxes (the bits that slot
into the rack) are a
lot easier to store than micros, even without the rack. They stack up in
the corner of a room quite easily - they're mostly flat-topped boxes, and
are strong enough to stack, unlike micros, which (IMHO) are often
impossible to store, especially the ones with built-in keyboards which
simply refuse to stack :-)
I know well of what you speak. I have to alternate my console systems
(ie. one right-side up and the other on top of it top-side down) to get
any kind of efficient storage going. On the other hand, the CP/M mini's
that I have are all flat-top steel boxes that stack quite well.
The last weekend I finished up on a rugged shelf I built from 2x4s and
plywood. It has 4 shelves (top included) each with a surface area of
abour 4' x 5' and holds my old computer collection nicely. Its a hell of
a lot nicer than having everything stacked along side my pool table. Now
I can play pool again.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
7:57 p.m.
How did I get started . . .
I remember playing around with TRS-80's in school, and Apples, CoCo's and
Vic's/C64's in computer stores and other places, but I had bought a
TI 99/4A. Remember, this was the early-mid 80's, when most of these
machines would cost you at least $400 or so. At those prices, you became
quite the advocate for what you had bought: you wanted to defend your
investment . . .
Fast forward to late 1990. I'm standing in a flea market in Southern
California, looking around for a packet radio (special modem used in
ham radio) when I see someone selling a Radio Shack Color Computer for
$10. Now, the Color Computer has a special place in my heart because
that's the computer I learned to program on (I spent far too much time in
my highschool days, hanging around Radio Shack, playing with this
machine!) Of course, that machine cost around $600 back in early 1981 . .
.and now I can have it for $10? I snapped it up, took it home, hooked it
up to the TV, and enjoyed the nostalgia rush. I even loaded up a cassette
full of old BASIC programs I had written . . .
During the next few months, I bought an Atari 800, a BBC Model B, an
Aquarius (was really given to me free!), a NEC 6001, a Franklin Ace
Apple Clone (needed it to run my Alphasyntauri music synthesizer, which
I also got at the flea market), and eventually, a Commodore 128 (never
wanted a 64, BASIC was too minimal . ..)
This was in addition to the TI 99/4A, the Apple IIe, and the Amiga 1000
that I also obtained new.
I still have all of these machines, and currently have the TI, the Amiga
and the Alphasyntauri connected to a mixer, for electronic music projects.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____
transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ /
/ / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ /
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 p.m.
Oh, and I forgot my two XT-class PC clones. One's a "no-name" brand, and
one's the much ballyhooed "Leading Edge D". (That Leading Edge is
responsible, in part, for getting me my current job, I strongly believe
that!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____
transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ /
/ / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ /
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11:24 p.m.
On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote something like:
While I'm greatly pleased that folks are
preserving microcomputers,
I've never felt a "bond" to that particular realm of design. I like
things like time-states, core memory, and pulse-logic. I guess that
makes me an "old fart".
I have a lot of respect for people who preserve minis and mainframes.
Workstations (Sun's in particular) and 70s and 80's micros are what grab
me since they are what I have used most. I would prefer to collect
workstations[1], Unix boxen, and machines which I have used in the past.
But, fate seems to want me to collect portable (or in most cases
schlepable) CP/M machines.
Is this a generational thing? My first computer exposure what to a
mainframe in the late 70's, but my first computer was an 80's micro.
Are people in the 40+ age group more likely to have fond memories
of minis?
I may not be an "old fart", but seening today's kids, sometimes I feel
like one. (Nintendo?, why in my day we had to type in our games on
membrane keyboards. It took hours to type them in. We stored programs
on cassette tape, and we liked it...)
[1] There are a good number of Sun 3's around. Unfortunately they seem to
always be just the cpu. If anyone in the silicon valley area (or anywhere
near there) would like to trade an old Sun for an Atari 1040ST with about
40lbs of accessories, let me know.
--pec
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old fart in training.
11 Apr
11 Apr
2:08 a.m.
Is this a generational thing? My first computer
exposure what to a
mainframe in the late 70's, but my first computer was an 80's micro.
Are people in the 40+ age group more likely to have fond memories
of minis?
Of course. My own exposure was to micros in the 80s, so I begun by getting
machines I had worked with back then. I don't discriminate at all, though,
and would definitely love a PDP-8. But with storage space waning, seriously
collecting minis (I won't even dare to think about mainframes) is a bit of a
problem.
Ignoring the fact that I can't seem to find any, anyway. :-)
I may not be an "old fart", but seening
today's kids, sometimes I feel
like one. (Nintendo?, why in my day we had to type in our games on
membrane keyboards. It took hours to type them in. We stored programs
on cassette tape, and we liked it...)
"And you tell that to young people, AND THEY WON'T BELIEVE YOU!" :-)
Seriously now, I got my first (long expected) when I spent about an hour
showing a Spectrum to my current flatmate (aged 19 I think) and trying to
explain how you plug it into a TV set for display (instead of a monitor) and
a tape recorder for data storage (but where's the drive?). Once she realised
that the computer *was* the keyboard, a computer does *not* necessarily come
with a printer and, once you write data to the tape, you can actually *load
it back* again, everything was fine.
Until she asked if I could lend it to her to do her industrial design CAD
and Word work on.
I think the Speccy's insulted now. :-)
--------------------------- ,o88,o888o,,o888o. -------------------------------
Alexios Chouchoulas '88 ,88' ,88'
alexios(a)vennea.demon.co.uk
The Unpronouncable One ,o88oooo88ooooo88oo, axc(a)dcs.ed.ac.uk
4:58 a.m.
In message <Pine.SUN.3.91.970411004904.4262A-100000(a)crl4.crl.com>you write:
Is this a generational thing? My first computer exposure what to a
mainframe in the late 70's, but my first computer was an 80's micro.
Are people in the 40+ age group more likely to have fond memories
of minis?
I think there will be a strong corrolation here. I started my computing
on my older brothers ZX80, I was 13 at the time. Thus I was brought up
on the home computer boom of the early eighties. These are the machines
I love to collect. Now, for me, the best machines are the ones that were
the complete failures.
I also like collecting Unix workstations because I have been programming
on Unix platforms for my entire working career. From what I remember I
think the desire to get a useable Unix machine at home (couldn 't afford
a PC to run Linux) is what got me started collecting.
I have got some PDP kit, but only because I couldn't see it go into a
skip, and the possibility that I may be able to get an early version on
Unix running on them. But as hardware goes they don't hold any nostalgic
interest for me.
--
Kevan
Old Computer Collector: <URL:http://staff.motiv.co.uk/~kevan/>
8:52 a.m.
[1] There are a good number of Sun 3's around.
Unfortunately they seem to
always be just the cpu. If anyone in the silicon valley area (or anywhere
near there) would like to trade an old Sun for an Atari 1040ST with about
40lbs of accessories, let me know.
Hi!
I have a couple of Sun 3's available with Monochrome monitors, I'd be
willing to trade for your Atari box... I'm in Los Angeles, and come up
to San Jose every week on Wednesdays (though it'd be a right pain in the
ass to lug this huge hulking monitor up there on the plane...)
Send me some email at jv(a)phxmedia.com if you're interested.
--
Phoenix Media Labs
9964
days inactive
9966
days old
14 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
alexios＠vennea.demon.co.uk -
ard12＠eng.cam.ac.uk -
carl.friend＠stoneweb.com -
dastar＠crl.com -
jim＠calico.litterbox.com -
kevan＠motiv.co.uk -
lists＠phx6.phxmedia.com -
pcoad＠crl.com -
transit＠primenet.com -
william＠ans.net