Just read the question about how many old "Classic" computers are dumped into landfills...It is a shame that things like this happen. Maybe if someone were to let the mainstream media know that there are collectors out there who want to preserve the old machines.... If the story were to be on CBS TV news, or in Newsweek, CNN or something, maybe a few more machines would be spared the fate of ending up trashed. Does anyone have connections to the National/World media about this?? Jeff Rottman in Texas

[...] What is crazy (IMHO) is that some machines seem to attract prices that are far too high for the type of machine. A case in point : About 10 years ago at a radio rally (hamfest), I could have bought either an Altair or an Intellec MCS8I. The Intellec was \pounds 10 more expensive, but appeared to be the more interesting and historically significant machine. It also had all the manuals with it, etc. It was getting late, and I couldn't afford both. I bought the Intellec. Of course now the Altair sells for very high prices (and I have no idea why), while Intellecs are almost worthless except to serious old computer enthusiasts like myself. So in a sense I lost a lot of money on that decision. Do I regret it? Not at all! The Intellec is the more interesting machine. I don't collect these computers as an investment - I collect them because I like old computers. I like to see how they work, how things changed over the years, etc. [...] Absolutely. I was chatting to Wlodek Mier-J (An HP calculator enthusiast) shortly before he published his 'guide to HP calculators' (which is excellent, by the way). I was also worried that such a guide could cause the second-hand prices of such machines to become very high, and effectively cut a lot of people out of the hobby. He replied that this could be a result, but that his intended result was to make people realise that the 20-year-old HP calculators had a value, and that it was worth selling them to collectors rather than throwing them out. The prices he mentioned in the book are realistic, IMHO, and second-hand prices of most HP machines haven't gone up. However, that was a book written by an enthusiast for other enthusiasts. The general media want a good story (obviously) and will quite happily report that a particular machine sold for $25000 (or whatever). No matter that it wasn't _worth_ that much - it was just that the buyer, for whatever reason, wanted that particular machine. Of course the general public suddenly get the idea that _all_ old computers are valuable, and refuse to sell them for what enthusiasts consider realistic prices. I've heard of Sinclair ZX80's selling for \pounds 175.00. Would I pay that? Not at all - I could get a much more interesting machine for that sort of money - probably some kind of minicomputer or workstation. I've even heard of Science of Cambridge MK14's (Sinclair's first microcomputer) selling for \pounds 1000. Now, I'd not sell mine for that (it was my first ever computer, and I feel an attraction to it :-)), but I certainly wouldn't pay that for a second one. For the same money I could get some _very_ interesting hardware... -- -tony ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill

Actually, most of them get sent overseas to get chopped up and recycled - pretty much the same fate in our eyes. Yes, I agree with all of the points made previously. I would like to add that advertising to the general public can leave you with mounds of requests/donations that need to be answered, and more people banging at your door. Most people can not tell a good classic computer (rarities, real oldies, etc.) from the common lot. To them, they are old computers that have been hidden in closets for ten years, and now may be worth money (cost escalation _will_ occur, as it has for every other kind of antique). When they come to you with a treasure, chances are that you will have five identical types already at home, and you will have to refuse the deal. This may be OK for the first few people, but it gets very tedious after the 20th person that asks you if you want to buy their Apple ][e. You get irritated from it (unless you have infinite patience), and they get disappointed that what they have is not a gem. Nobody walks away happy. The question you must ask yourself is "Do I want to expose myself to this, just so I can get that one prize in one hundred?". I have tried advertising in both niche publications and to the masses at the hamfests. Both ways have worked for me in my radio collecting hobby fairly well - I have made some deals for real gems. For the computer collecting side, however, advertising (generally with a carried sign) at the hamfests has been fruitless. My sign stated explicitly that I was looking for old minicomputers (DEC, DG, etc.) and old Sun equipment, yet I was still offered tons of Apple ][es. I just placed some feelers out on the net. I wonder how they will work. My opinion: keep the hunting rather low-key. The classic computers are still out there to be found; it just takes legwork. Going public can, and probably will, backfire. William Donzelli william(a)ans.net

William Donzelli wrote: I agree, there are alot of lazy people out there trying to make a fast buck, if they even had the hint of possible cash from their VIC-20 they would be banging on your door demanding you pay them $300 for the thing. Take for instance, baseball cards, you know those thin pieces of cheap to decent quality CARDBOARD, or dolls, or old toys, etc. Just be glad no one has compiled a list or a sellers/buyers guide my friends! The post about the Altair skyrocketing is probably due to the hype generated by Steve Levy's Hackers as well as the media about the Altair being 'the first home computer', I've notiuced a bunch of ya-hoos on the internet looking for their bit of computer history (which they never experienced till they got their IBM clone and they probably well be dissapointed to learn that they can't even run Lotus on it.) I get computers mainly because I ran a Commodore Group and am the area's contact for Commodore information, so people come up and ask me, 'hey you got any use for a ???' I usually say no, I collect them but am too broke to buy em; they ususually give em to me, (thanks mainly to my assistance I had provided in years past). Also thrift shops and used bookstores, some bookstores will toss the older computer books (after being burned by all those punched-card machine texts floding them years back), so make sure you let them know you appreciate them having the older micro books. Larry Anderson