12 Feb
2021
12 Feb
'21
4:50 a.m.
Hi all,
Hopefully the following link works, but someone over on one of the Facebook
vintage groups has this oddball terminal from 1973 that they've been
looking for any information on:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2Qkj
... it's somewhat unconventional in that half the CRT is hidden from view
within the machine, i.e. it only actually displays the top half of the
display to the user - I've no idea if that's because it had a specific
application where space was limited, or if it was simply that memory at the
time was horribly expensive and so it was designed to only use a few lines
(I know some vendors did that, although I think they typically presented
the whole CRT and at least had the option of RAM upgrade to more lines).
The blower assembly seems a little on the homebrew side, but on the other
hand the PCBs and case construction make it seem like a professional product.
The owner says the only label anywhere on the thing is the one on the CRT
saying "Mfd in Japan for Conrac", but that's presumably just the CRT itself
and not the entire machine.
I don't believe there's anything resembling a microprocessor in the system,
it's all just TTL logic (the large white ceramic IC is an ACIA).
Oh, I believe the owner's in Canada, so it may be it was made there and
never exported to other parts of the world.
cheers
Jules
12 Feb
12 Feb
6:08 a.m.
On Feb 12, 2021, at 7:50 AM, Jules Richardson via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hi all,
Hopefully the following link works, but someone over on one of the Facebook vintage
groups has this oddball terminal from 1973 that they've been looking for any
information on:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2Qkj
... it's somewhat unconventional in that half the CRT is hidden from view within the
machine, i.e. it only actually displays the top half of the display to the user - I've
no idea if that's because it had a specific application where space was limited, or if
it was simply that memory at the time was horribly expensive and so it was designed to
only use a few lines (I know some vendors did that, although I think they typically
presented the whole CRT and at least had the option of RAM upgrade to more lines).
The blower assembly seems a little on the homebrew side, but on the other hand the PCBs
and case construction make it seem like a professional product.
The owner says the only label anywhere on the thing is the one on the CRT saying
"Mfd in Japan for Conrac", but that's presumably just the CRT itself and not
the entire machine.
I remember Conrac as a well known CRT maker from that time. I think they were used in
PLATO III terminals (mid 1960s).
I don't believe there's anything resembling a
microprocessor in the system, it's all just TTL logic (the large white ceramic IC is
an ACIA).
Oh, I believe the owner's in Canada, so it may be it was made there and never
exported to other parts of the world.
cheers
Jules
The photos are not particularly helpful; they show parts of the device but not close
enough to tell the details, while much of the case is not shown. Is there any
manufacturer label or serial number tag on the case?
One of those boards is full of rather sloppy ECO wires, which makes it feel like a home
made job, but the rest look like decent quality commercial pieces. And yes, the blower is
rather curious, it's hard to see how a device like this might dissipate enough power
to need that kind of air mover.
paul
11:02 a.m.
On 2/12/21 8:08 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
The photos are not particularly helpful; they show
parts of the device
but not close enough to tell the details, while much of the case is not
shown. Is there any manufacturer label or serial number tag on the
case?
I'll see if I can get him to share more photos - I know he'd posted some of
the complete system a few months ago when he picked it up, so maybe he can
add them to the Google folder.
Unfortunately it seems that the Conrac on the tube is the only kind of
branding on the whole thing. I wonder if it had a decal / emblem on the
keyboard originally and that's fallen off.
One of those boards is full of rather sloppy ECO
wires, which makes it
feel like a home made job, but the rest look like decent quality
commercial pieces.
Yes, the general board quality (and other things, etc. the cage around the
cards) just seems too nice for something that might have been a homebrew or
prototype - it feels to me more like a commercial product, but one in its
very early days before they'd got all the kinks worked out.
And yes, the blower is rather curious, it's hard
to
see how a device like this might dissipate enough power to need that
kind of air mover.
That aspect of it seems like a case of "just use what we have" to me, i.e.
they wanted to duct warm air out the back without much clearance, and just
happened to have a source of those blower assemblies. It's a bit odd that
they're dumping air from around the PSU but there's no airflow through the
card cage at all.
Jules
11:08 a.m.
On 2021-Feb-12, at 6:08 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
Between google and the browser I'm using, the photos didn't display properly, so I
downloaded them (upper right corner),
which unzipped to high-res versions.
On Feb 12,
2021, at 7:50 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Hopefully the following link works, but someone over on one of the Facebook vintage
groups has this oddball terminal from 1973 that they've been looking for any
information on:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2Qkj
... it's somewhat unconventional in that half the CRT is hidden from view within the
machine, i.e. it only actually displays the top half of the display to the user - I've
no idea if that's because it had a specific application where space was limited, or if
it was simply that memory at the time was horribly expensive and so it was designed to
only use a few lines (I know some vendors did that, although I think they typically
presented the whole CRT and at least had the option of RAM upgrade to more lines).
The blower assembly seems a little on the homebrew side, but on the other hand the PCBs
and case construction make it seem like a professional product.
The owner says the only label anywhere on the thing is the one on the CRT saying
"Mfd in Japan for Conrac", but that's presumably just the CRT itself and not
the entire machine.
I remember Conrac as a well known CRT maker from that time. I think they were used in
PLATO III terminals (mid 1960s).
I don't believe there's anything
resembling a microprocessor in the system, it's all just TTL logic (the large white
ceramic IC is an ACIA).
Oh, I believe the owner's in Canada, so it may be it was made there and never
exported to other parts of the world.
Jules
The photos are not particularly helpful; they show parts of the device but not close
enough to tell the details, while much of the case is not shown. Is there any
manufacturer label or serial number tag on the case?
One of those boards is full of rather sloppy ECO wires, which makes it feel like a home
made job, but the rest look like decent quality commercial pieces. And yes, the blower is
rather curious, it's hard to see how a device like this might dissipate enough power
to need that kind of air mover. From those:
The board with the white ECOs is the memory, it has 5 1402's (256*4 shift register), 3
of them from Intel and 2 replacements from MIL (Microsystems International Limited) which
is the only place Canada appears to come into it.
Not clear how they would be organised for the screen .
The main board has a Fairchild 3258 64*7*5 character generator, along with the 1602
UART/ACIA.
The blower is probably targeting the pass transistors for the linear power supply, to
avoid requiring a giant heat sink.
Most/many terminals from that period had a large heat sink for the pass trans.
I don't think the CRT is half-hidden, rather just a high-aspect-ratio CRT (very wide
rel to height).
Interesting that aside from the Intel/MIL memory chips, a couple of specialised clock
drivers for those, and a couple of other chips, it's entirely Fairchild 9xxx series
stuff.
In terms of design & construction it looks pretty typical for its period; nonetheless
a cool unit to be working on.
11:17 a.m.
About all I can contribute is that Conrac made TV monitors--I rigged one
up to a system for classroom instruction in the 1970s. I remember that
it was a B&W 21" model.
--Chuck
11:50 a.m.
On 2/12/21 1:08 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:
Between google and the browser I'm using, the
photos didn't display
properly, so I downloaded them (upper right corner), which unzipped to
high-res versions.
I had issues myself, zoom would work, but there seemed to be no obvious
method for "just show me the thing at native resolution without a bunch of
UI nonsense around it".
The board with the white ECOs is the memory, it has 5
1402's (256*4
shift register), 3 of them from Intel and 2 replacements from MIL
(Microsystems International Limited) which is the only place Canada
appears to come into it.
Yes, I believe the owner lives in Canada, but it's entirely possible that
it was built in the US (or anywhere).
I don't think the CRT is half-hidden, rather just
a high-aspect-ratio
CRT (very wide rel to height).
If I remember right, the CRT sits partially recessed in the case behind the
front bezel, with the keyboard obscuring it. But maybe I don't remember
right :-) As mentioned to Paul, I'll see if I can get the owner to share
some more photos of the complete unit.
In terms of design & construction it looks pretty
typical for its
period; nonetheless a cool unit to be working on.
Logic-wise for sure, although the physical construction is a little odd.
Personally I like seeing terminals like this though because it seems that
so few have survived - people will preserve the DEC / HP / Tektronix
hardware and much of everything else from that very late '60s to mid-70's
period is long gone.
cheers
Jules
2:17 p.m.
Jules said
Personally I like seeing terminals like this though
because it seems that
so few have survived - people will preserve the DEC / HP / Tektronix
hardware and much of everything else from that very late '60s to mid-70's
period is long gone.
I can't help either, but one place where pictures and descriptions of long-dead
peripherals
can be found are in the 'New Products' pages of DATAMATION.
Every time I look through these I am amazed by the variety, type and number of
manufacturers
of gear eg. key-to-tape, high-speed line printers and other mundane yet expensive 1970s
business
equipment that was rarely advertised in later more consumer-oriented journals such as
BYTE.
Steve.
8:04 a.m.
On 2/12/21 4:50 AM, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
Bumping up a level and looking at the other computers in the collection should give you
a good idea who it is, in particular the Tek board bucket and the build of an exact
replica
tv typewriter
8:05 a.m.
Sort of reminds me of a DataPoint 2200. Clone maybe?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jules
Richardson via cctalk
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 7:50 AM
To: xx Classiccmp mailing list
Subject: Mystery (unusual) 1973 terminal
Hi all,
Hopefully the following link works, but someone over on one of the Facebook
vintage groups has this oddball terminal from 1973 that they've been
looking for any information on:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-2uEFbi3OKBYr06y6yHnygDiLMtw2Qkj
.. it's somewhat unconventional in that half the CRT is hidden from view
within the machine, i.e. it only actually displays the top half of the
display to the user - I've no idea if that's because it had a specific
application where space was limited, or if it was simply that memory at the
time was horribly expensive and so it was designed to only use a few lines
(I know some vendors did that, although I think they typically presented
the whole CRT and at least had the option of RAM upgrade to more lines).
The blower assembly seems a little on the homebrew side, but on the other
hand the PCBs and case construction make it seem like a professional
product.
The owner says the only label anywhere on the thing is the one on the CRT
saying "Mfd in Japan for Conrac", but that's presumably just the CRT itself
and not the entire machine.
I don't believe there's anything resembling a microprocessor in the system,
it's all just TTL logic (the large white ceramic IC is an ACIA).
Oh, I believe the owner's in Canada, so it may be it was made there and
never exported to other parts of the world.
cheers
Jules
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
10:50 a.m.
On 2/12/21 10:05 AM, William Sudbrink wrote:
Sort of reminds me of a DataPoint 2200. Clone maybe?
I see what you're saying, but I don't think there's much in the way of
brains to this thing, though (unlike the 2200, which I believe was an
"actual computer") - it's just a terminal. From what I've seen of
Datapoint/CTC's other offerings it looks like the 2200 system was the only
one with a short vertical display - their plain terminals all appear to
have a more conventional aspect ratio.
1178
days inactive
1178
days old
9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
bhilpert＠shaw.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
jules.richardson99＠gmail.com -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
steven＠malikoff.com -
wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net