16 Mar
1998
16 Mar
'98
6:07 p.m.
At 06:01 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
[snip]
[snip]
Is it this
dearth of technical information that accounts for the lack of
interest in collecting old IBM?
Yes. That and the general unhackability of the minis. And that most people
hate them. And that most universities had DECs and such in their CS
departments. And the weird parts.
But wait...
I think also that many people really think that the old IBMs are junk.
They really are not.
Amen. You just need manuals, lots and lots of them.
I just purchased (finally found, really) a copy of
*IBM's System/360 and Early 370 Computers*, and a casual quick read
revealed that the S/360 really were very advanced machines, many of
inovations are commonplace today. Other systems, like some of the minis,
have bizarre architectures that, once inside, are fascinating. A lack of
decent development tools, however, is a real crutch. C for the S/3x line
(even Small-C) would be great.
I think a lot of people fail to consider that the IBM midrange and
mainframes were designed to run businesses without down time--the
philosophy of the engineers has always been to keep those pesky hackers out
of the system. By hackers, I mean real programmers. Of course the 360 was
supposed to be an "all around machine," but from what I've seen, business
rules at IBM.
Anyway, send me your old IBMs, size it not a problem
(while I gaze at the
photo of the multiprocessing S/370 installation).
I would if I could afford the freight. ;) I'd still like to get a 5360 to
run Displaywrite/36 folder extractions on, but I have to get the 'Vette out
of the garage and install air conditioning in the there before I can even
think about it.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
--
David Wollmann
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com
16 Mar
16 Mar
10:17 p.m.
New subject: Old IBMs
I think a lot of people fail to consider that the IBM
midrange and
mainframes were designed to run businesses without down time--the
philosophy of the engineers has always been to keep those pesky hackers out
of the system. By hackers, I mean real programmers. Of course the 360 was
supposed to be an "all around machine," but from what I've seen, business
rules at IBM.
That is IBMs bread and butter. Anyway, the stories of S/36s being up for
YEARS without crashing or failing are true.
I would if I could afford the freight. ;) I'd
still like to get a 5360 to
run Displaywrite/36 folder extractions on, but I have to get the 'Vette out
of the garage and install air conditioning in the there before I can even
think about it.
I need to make a serious effort to get 240 VAC service at RCS/RI so we can
play with our IBMs (5340 and 5360). Those and the Intergraph VAX 8550.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
17 Mar
17 Mar
7:42 a.m.
New subject: Old IBMs
[IBM S/36]
Runs for years - but mine takes in the area of 20 minutes to ask me for an IPL
password! It's a 5363, a nice, PC-sized S/36, but it's NOT that PC-36 thing...
I've seen manuals, and it looks fairly ugly. (It's a PC/AT size case,
with a strange bus extender thingie (I think) that plugs into a PC/AT for
console/print/disk/whatever services).
Mine also doesn't stretch the power limit any...
You need 240VAC for a Sys/34? Mine wants 208V/1PH, and it indicates that
it can be rewired for other voltages... Maybe if you have manuals or something
you can tell me how? I have a pin converter dongle for the power cord so I
don't have to mutilate the existing one, so I could try things here...
Besides, if I got it wrong, it'd powercheck before damaging things, right?
-------
10:51 a.m.
New subject: Old IBMs
At 05:42 AM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
[IBM S/36]
Runs for years - but mine takes in the area of 20 minutes to ask me for an
IPL
password! It's a 5363, a nice, PC-sized S/36, but
it's NOT that PC-36
thing...
If your IPL is taking that long, you ought to see if you can find a copy of
"S/36 POWER TOOLS" floating around (it's available from Duke Press for
$80). You're probably doing some IPL key sorts or other ops that might not
be necessary, especially if you inherited the machine from a business user.
POWER TOOLS includes a bunch of cool utils and "tips and tricks" stuff that
should help you get a faster IPL.
I usually only run mine for a week or so at a time, but it's never crashed,
even when I unplug periphs or accidentally cut off power to a peripheral. I
wish I had the opportunity to run one in a multi-user environment, I think
it would be beautiful to watch.
I've seen manuals, and it looks fairly ugly.
(It's a PC/AT size case,
with a strange bus extender thingie (I think) that plugs into a PC/AT for
console/print/disk/whatever services).
I've got two of them--want 'em? They aren't bad if you're interested in
learning the OS, etc. but intolerably slow.
--
David Wollmann |
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products.
DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for
IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.
11:37 a.m.
New subject: Old IBMs
[IPL is slow...]
I mean the IPL *BEFORE* it asks me for username/password.
It counts down from 11 on the console, and takes eternity.
[Want a few PC-36es?]
Not really, I'm pushing my storage as is. Maybe when I get moved in some-
where, I could use them. I have the microcode disks and such for them...
[Learning the S/36 O/S]
That's a question of how much time I get to burn with it.
Mine apparently speaks RPG and Assembler, I wish it did BASIC.
Maybe as I screw with it some, I'll learn. I have a quickref book and
a few manuals.
[Hostname?]
Do IBM's need a hostname? I plan to make (some attempt) at networking
this with the S/34...
[Operation with no printer]
What was that command again?
-------
11:46 a.m.
New subject: Old IBMs
At 09:37 AM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
[IPL is slow...]
I mean the IPL *BEFORE* it asks me for username/password.
It counts down from 11 on the console, and takes eternity.
Ok, what mode is the key switch set to? I think Service mode takes quite a
bit longer to POST...I'll have to check.
[Want a few PC-36es?]
Not really, I'm pushing my storage as is. Maybe when I get moved in some-
where, I could use them. I have the microcode disks and such for them...
[Learning the S/36 O/S]
That's a question of how much time I get to burn with it.
Mine apparently speaks RPG and Assembler, I wish it did BASIC.
Maybe as I screw with it some, I'll learn. I have a quickref book and
a few manuals.
Want to swap something for the ASM diskettes? How about BASIC?
[Hostname?]
Do IBM's need a hostname? I plan to make (some attempt) at networking
this with the S/34...
That I'm not sure of. My 36 is stand-alone. :(
[Operation with no printer]
What was that command again?
SYSLIST CRT
You can also do this from the menus, I forget where, but if you drill down
about three levels in the admin stuff it's there.
-------
--
David Wollmann |
dwollmann(a)ibmhelp.com | Support for legacy IBM products.
DST ibmhelp.com Technical Support | Data, document and file conversion for
IBM http://www.ibmhelp.com/ | legacy file and media formats.
11:53 a.m.
New subject: Old IBMs
[Key position]
It's in Service mode. Permanenly. I don't have they key, so I connected a few
wires. Besides, it doesn't let me boot in Normal mode. Someone edited the
key before me.
(They had the same problem. But they broke the Normal lead off at wherever it
ends up)
(Connecting it had no effect. No IPL.)
-------
1:13 p.m.
New subject: Old IBMs
You need 240VAC for a Sys/34? Mine wants 208V/1PH,
and it indicates that
it can be rewired for other voltages... Maybe if you have manuals or something
you can tell me how? I have a pin converter dongle for the power cord so I
don't have to mutilate the existing one, so I could try things here...
Besides, if I got it wrong, it'd powercheck before damaging things, right?
Nearly everything made for 240 VAC will work on 208 VAC. The reverse is
also true.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
9878
days inactive
9879
days old
7 comments
3 participants
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DSEAGRAV＠toad.xkl.com -
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