u I guess this is on-topic for the moment. Two of my on-line friends have unsubscribed from this list publically; only Derreck is in a position to know how many have lapsed silently. It is the old usenet/mailist syndrome. A disagreement starts, escalates, sides are chosen, persons come in halfway and add distorted fuel, endless changes are rung on is/is not, did/did not, me/no, me!... etc ad nauseum. And when the noise achieves it's sustained reaction peak, valuable contributors take the step of severing thier connection with the source of the noise... be it bandwidth, emotional, harrasment, or other klinds of Internet 'noise'. The response that always works for me is the 'delete' function in my mail software. I personally refuse to descend the slippery slope of Victim Conciousness, no matter how alluring the bottom might seem. I don't like some of the discussions posted here, but I have a noise blanker in Pine, invoked by pressing 'D' once for each instance of a noisy message. And I take responsibility for what I write, and for the manner in which I respond to others using this medium of expression. Okay this is too long. Heavily moderated lists are quiet but necessarily fascistic. Not a bad thing, qua the list in question. Loosely moderated lists generate fabulous discussion and info, but suffer what we now see on classiccmp. A rhetorical question: on what emotional level do you engae this List, and the Net in general? A lot of people espouse Anarchy and Chaos, until one fine night the other Anarchists decide they want your farm more than you do.... :} Cheers John PS: I hope Andrew and Doug reconsider in the fulness of time. I will miss them.