8 Feb
2002
8 Feb
'02
9:08 a.m.
I'm looking for PC docs & drivers for old tape
drives. I already have
everything I need for Colorado tape drives, so I'm looking for older, more
obscure stuff from the 80s. If anyone's got ANYTHING like this, for any
type of tape drive (QIC, digital cassette, whatever) please let me know.
I have a Conner Tape-Store 800 with docs and drivers (drivers disks
appear to be BackUp Exec for windows)
I also have an Iomege Tape250 Insider with docs and drivers.
What exactly are you looking for? (ie: did you want them, or just copies,
or just wanted to know something about them). They are both in use right
now, so I don't know if I am apt to just give them away.
-chris
<http://www.mythtech.net>
8 Feb
8 Feb
5:29 a.m.
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Chris wrote:
I have a Conner Tape-Store 800 with docs and drivers
(drivers disks
appear to be BackUp Exec for windows)
I just got this setup yesterday, including the software, so I'm good with
that.
I also have an Iomege Tape250 Insider with docs and
drivers.
Hmmm, yummy.
What exactly are you looking for? (ie: did you want
them, or just
copies, or just wanted to know something about them). They are both in
use right now, so I don't know if I am apt to just give them away.
I really just need copies of the drivers or software, and ideally a copy
of the documentation if necessary. I'm trying to build a dedicated
conversion box with as many different drives as possible. I have a huge
tower case I bought over 10 years ago with 10 bays and I'm finally putting
it to use. So I'm in the process of finding all the various types of disk
and tape drives so I can install them all and be able to do conversions
without much hassle.
So far I have:
- The requisite 5.25" and 3.5" internal drives
- 8" (various types...need to modify a PC disk controller to work)
- Emerald Systems internal digital cassette drive with adaptor (need
drivers/software)
- Everex external digital cassette drive (need adaptor and software, but
may not be necessary if it's compatible with the Emerald Systems)
- Colorado 350 (got everything I need I think)
- Syquest 44 internal (SCSI) [1]
- Syquest 88 internal (SCSI) [1]
- Syquest 200 internal (SCSI) [1]
- Syquest EZ-Flyer 230
- Iomega ZIP 100 (SCSI)
- Iomega Jaz (SCSI)
- Tecmar external drive that reads/writes DC-6280 tapes [3] (need
adaptor/software)
- 9-track 800/1600/6250bpi external (with adaptor and software)
- Copy II Option Board
Getting:
- Bernoulli 10MB (external) (need software)
Want:
- Iomega Ditto [4]
- DAT/DLT drive that will read just about any DAT/DLT tape
- VCR backup system adaptor and software
[1] My understanding is that the Sqyuest 44 is not compatible with the 88
is not compatible with the 200. Does anyone know the scoop on this? It'd
be nice to just leave out the 44 and 88 if possible [2].
[2] The current idea is to have whatever doesn't fit mounted on sleds so
that a drive can be popped in to an empty bay easily for a particular
conversion job.
[3] I think. At least the DC-6280 is the size of the tape that it
accepts. I know there are tapes of the same size that have a different
type number. Is there a definitive list of these on the web with
pictures?
[4] Isn't this at least read compatible with a Colorado Jumbo 350?
Consider it a "Stone Soup" box. Whoever contributes to it gets free data
conversion service ;)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
3:42 p.m.
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
I really just need copies of the drivers or software,
and ideally a
copy of the documentation if necessary. I'm trying to build a
dedicated conversion box with as many different drives as possible. I
have a huge tower case I bought over 10 years ago with 10 bays and I'm
finally putting it to use. So I'm in the process of finding all the
various types of disk and tape drives so I can install them all and be
able to do conversions without much hassle.
You might end up having to build more than one computer. I've been playing
with the idea of setting up something like this myself.
Want:
- Iomega Ditto [4]
- DAT/DLT drive that will read just about any DAT/DLT tape
- VCR backup system adaptor and software
Might want to add a Bernoulli 44MB to your list of drives. Those were very
common for quite awhile. I believe there may have also been a 20MB and
150MB Bernoulli drive. Do you have a controller for the 10MB drive? IIRC,
those need a special interface board to function. I also seem to remember
some of the Bernoulli drives would not work properly on anything faster
than a 386 or 486. I have a dual 10MB stored away somewhere, but I don't
think I have books for it. I may have an extra interface board somewhere.
The 44MB version also uses an interface board, but I'm not familiar with
the 20 or 150MB drives.
[2] The current idea is to have whatever doesn't
fit mounted on sleds
so that a drive can be popped in to an empty bay easily for a
particular conversion job.
For drives that use the floppy interface, you'll have to connect them one
at a time. You also can't use the floppy drive at the same time as the
tape drive, unless you put the tape drive on a dedicated second
controller. Not all tape drive software will support that configuration,
tho.
[3] I think. At least the DC-6280 is the size of the
tape that it
accepts. I know there are tapes of the same size that have a
different type number. Is there a definitive list of these on the web
with pictures?
I don't know about pictures, but I did some searches on QIC-24 drives a
few weeks ago with Google and turned up a few incomplete charts and some
emails from various list archives. I believe there are 6-8 basic drive
types for QIC-11/QIC-24/QIC-15/etc.
[4] Isn't this at least read compatible with a
Colorado Jumbo 350?
You'll likely want to get some of the other models of Colorado Jumbo
drives too. The later drives can often read some of the other density
tapes, but can't write to them. The most reliable drive to use would
ideally be the same type as they were originally written with. There were
literally 100s of different DC2000 drives made over the years. A large
number of them used their own tape format, so you'll end up requiring alot
of different drives if you plan to support them all.
-Toth
8:53 a.m.
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Tothwolf wrote:
You might end up having to build more than one
computer. I've been playing
with the idea of setting up something like this myself.
I was considering this tonight. I'll probably make a separate box with
just SCSI devices, so I can easily mount those and then install a 10base2
network between the two boxes so I can easily access those drives from the
box with the tape drives. SInce my whole setup will most likely be
DOS-based, I can use a simple P2P LAN such as LANtastic (LANtastic was
very cool for what it was in its day).
Might want to add a Bernoulli 44MB to your list of
drives. Those were very
Yes, well the 10 megger I mentioned may well be a 44 megger. I didn't pay
closer attention to it.
common for quite awhile. I believe there may have also
been a 20MB and
150MB Bernoulli drive. Do you have a controller for the 10MB drive? IIRC,
I'll definitely want all the various types if the larger ones are not
backward compatible. From what I understand, Bernoulli 230 drives can
not read Bernoulli 150 drives. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't yet have a controller for any of these drives, so am in need.
those need a special interface board to function. I
also seem to remember
some of the Bernoulli drives would not work properly on anything faster
than a 386 or 486. I have a dual 10MB stored away somewhere, but I don't
think I have books for it. I may have an extra interface board somewhere.
The 44MB version also uses an interface board, but I'm not familiar with
the 20 or 150MB drives.
The drive I am getting is a dual drive, so maybe it is a 10 megger after
all.
For drives that use the floppy interface, you'll
have to connect them one
at a time. You also can't use the floppy drive at the same time as the
tape drive, unless you put the tape drive on a dedicated second
controller. Not all tape drive software will support that configuration,
tho.
Of course. I used this sort of tape drive extensively with the Colorado.
But you'll never be going from tape to floppy or vice versa. And if you
had to, you'd of course dump to the HD first and then out to floppy.
I don't know about pictures, but I did some
searches on QIC-24 drives a
few weeks ago with Google and turned up a few incomplete charts and some
emails from various list archives. I believe there are 6-8 basic drive
types for QIC-11/QIC-24/QIC-15/etc.
I need those 6-8 drives then ;)
You'll likely want to get some of the other models
of Colorado Jumbo
drives too. The later drives can often read some of the other density
tapes, but can't write to them. The most reliable drive to use would
ideally be the same type as they were originally written with. There were
literally 100s of different DC2000 drives made over the years. A large
number of them used their own tape format, so you'll end up requiring alot
of different drives if you plan to support them all.
Well, I got to if it's to be worth while. The idea is to create one ready
to use super box that can convert from just about anything to just about
anything else without requiring a long search for the right drives,
software, and hardware for the media in question. The emphasis is on
just reading the data which will eventually go to CD-R. So it's important
to be able to read just about anything, but writing isn't as critical.
Usually when someone wants data converted these days, they want it on CD
or 3.5" floppy.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
3:50 p.m.
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Tothwolf wrote:
I don't know about pictures, but I did some
searches on QIC-24 drives a
few weeks ago with Google and turned up a few incomplete charts and some
emails from various list archives. I believe there are 6-8 basic drive
types for QIC-11/QIC-24/QIC-15/etc.
erm, QIC-150, not -15.
-Toth
9 Feb
9 Feb
4:26 a.m.
On 08-Feb-2002 Sellam Ismail wrote:
[4] Isn't this at least read compatible with a
Colorado Jumbo 350?
I have a Jumbo 350 looking for a good home. Still in original box, has
cable, software (including win95 version that Colorado was giving away
free for a short while), brochures and 4 tapes.
This drive worked last time I used it... which was a whiles ago.
-Philip
5:15 a.m.
On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 philip(a)awale.qc.ca wrote:
On 08-Feb-2002 Sellam Ismail wrote:
HP bought Colorado and has the software available if you spend enough time
digging on their website. IIRC, the tapes used for 350MB (compressed)
175MB (native) are DC2120XL.
[4] Isn't this at least read compatible with
a Colorado Jumbo 350?
I have a Jumbo 350 looking for a good home. Still in original box,
has cable, software (including win95 version that Colorado was giving
away free for a short while), brochures and 4 tapes. This drive worked last time I used it... which was a
whiles ago.
One thing that needs to be checked and cleaned on the DC2000 type drives
is the rubber drive wheel. The rubber wheel should be soft, but not sticky
or damaged. If the wheel isn't in good shape, the drive won't be able to
run the tape at the proper speed, and might even damage the tape.
-Toth
10 Feb
10 Feb
3:32 a.m.
Sellam Ismail wrote:
I really just need copies of the drivers or software,
and ideally a copy
of the documentation if necessary. I'm trying to build a dedicated
conversion box with as many different drives as possible. I have a huge
tower case I bought over 10 years ago with 10 bays and I'm finally putting
it to use. So I'm in the process of finding all the various types of disk
and tape drives so I can install them all and be able to do conversions
without much hassle.
So far I have:
- The requisite 5.25" and 3.5" internal drives
- 8" (various types...need to modify a PC disk controller to work)
- Emerald Systems internal digital cassette drive with adaptor (need
drivers/software)
- Everex external digital cassette drive (need adaptor and software, but
may not be necessary if it's compatible with the Emerald Systems)
- Colorado 350 (got everything I need I think)
- Syquest 44 internal (SCSI) [1]
- Syquest 88 internal (SCSI) [1]
- Syquest 200 internal (SCSI) [1]
- Syquest EZ-Flyer 230
- Iomega ZIP 100 (SCSI)
- Iomega Jaz (SCSI)
- Tecmar external drive that reads/writes DC-6280 tapes [3] (need
adaptor/software)
- 9-track 800/1600/6250bpi external (with adaptor and software)
- Copy II Option Board
Jerome Fine replies:
Interesting - see my other post for my details.
I just finished a basic hardware upgrade to a "newer" PC with W98 second
edition instead of W95 - WOW! - JECK!!!
In any case, I had forgot how to install my Iomega Zip 100 drive. Finally,
I found the "Tools" Zip media and the software was there! If you need
a copy, let me know. We can swap the following information -
I want to be able to burn a CD with BOTH
(a) ISO format files at the beginning
(b) RT-11 partitions at the end
Tim Shoppa did this with the RT-11 Freeware 2.0 CD - more details if
you need them?
Consider it a "Stone Soup" box. Whoever
contributes to it gets free data
conversion service ;)
Do you already have the "Tools" media from Iomega?
Sincerely yours,
Jerome Fine
9:43 a.m.
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002, Jerome Fine wrote:
Do you already have the "Tools" media from
Iomega?
Yes, I do. Thanks anyway ;)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
8:39 p.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
I recently acquired an old HP scanner- 9190AU. Can anyone give me more
information on this unit- HP don't support it anymore. (it is old!)
It looks to be almost the original Scanjet, as that's what it has on the
front, HP Scanjet, with no letters or numerals following. The 9190AU
designator is on the nameplate underneath. It has a Centronics connector
on the back and came with a std IBM printer cable, so I guess is a parallel
port version. But there is another oddball ( 20? pin) connector on the back
too. What's it for?
I don't have any software for it but I believe the original drivers were Win
3.1x only, so suggestions as to getting software to run it would be useful
as well.
Dave Brown
Christchurch
New Zealand
11:53 p.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
At 11:39 PM 2/11/2002 +1300, Dave Brown wrote:
The 9190AU
designator is on the nameplate underneath. It has a Centronics connector
on the back and came with a std IBM printer cable, so I guess is a parallel
port version. But there is another oddball ( 20? pin) connector on the back
too. What's it for?
I thought that generation was SCSI, not parallel port.
There's a FAQ at http://www.frii.com/~rjn/computer/hp9190a.htm
but it doesn't mention the 9190AU, just the 9190A.
- John
11 Feb
11 Feb
1:22 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
How many pins does the centronics have? Might be SCSI if it's Centronics 50
rather than 36. The 20 is probably a db25 that is also an alternate SCSI.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 7:54 AM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> At 11:39 PM 2/11/2002 +1300, Dave Brown wrote:
=> > The 9190AU
=> >designator is on the nameplate underneath. It has a
=> Centronics connector
=> >on the back and came with a std IBM printer cable, so I guess
=> is a parallel
=> >port version. But there is another oddball ( 20? pin) connector
=> on the back
=> >too. What's it for?
=>
=> I thought that generation was SCSI, not parallel port.
=> There's a FAQ at http://www.frii.com/~rjn/computer/hp9190a.htm
=> but it doesn't mention the 9190AU, just the 9190A.
=>
=> - John
=>
=>
2:32 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
Didn't we go through this "Centrronics" business once before? Centronics
connectors always have 36 contacts. If it has more or fewer than that it's
NOT Centronics.
There is NO Centronics SCSI connector.
If there's another connector on the back, it's somewhat likely it's for a
sheet feeder.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Blakeman" <rhblakeman(a)kih.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:22 AM
Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
How many pins does the centronics have? Might be SCSI
if it's Centronics 50
rather than 36. The 20 is probably a db25 that is also an alternate SCSI.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 7:54 AM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> At 11:39 PM 2/11/2002 +1300, Dave Brown wrote:
=> > The 9190AU
=> >designator is on the nameplate underneath. It has a
=> Centronics connector
=> >on the back and came with a std IBM printer cable, so I guess
=> is a parallel
=> >port version. But there is another oddball ( 20? pin) connector
=> on the back
=> >too. What's it for?
=>
=> I thought that generation was SCSI, not parallel port.
=> There's a FAQ at http://www.frii.com/~rjn/computer/hp9190a.htm
=> but it doesn't mention the 9190AU, just the 9190A.
=>
=> - John
=>
=>
3:39 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
Better tell that to 99% of the manufacturers and sellers that use the
terminology then. C50 or Centronics 50 is used more often than SCSI I to
refer to these connectors. If I remember long ago PBX and multi-line phones
had a centronics-like connector as well (or was it more like an IEEE-488)but
I know it wasn't referred to as Centronics.
By the way there's another connector known as a Centronics B connector, much
smaller and look s lot like the SCSI II with clips.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:33 AM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> Didn't we go through this "Centrronics" business once before?
Centronics
=> connectors always have 36 contacts. If it has more or fewer
=> than that it's
=> NOT Centronics.
=>
=> There is NO Centronics SCSI connector.
=>
=> If there's another connector on the back, it's somewhat likely it's for
a
=> sheet feeder.
=>
=> Dick
=>
=> ----- Original Message -----
=> From: "Russ Blakeman" <rhblakeman(a)kih.net>
=> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:22 AM
=> Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> > How many pins does the centronics have? Might be SCSI if it's
=> Centronics 50
=> > rather than 36. The 20 is probably a db25 that is also an
=> alternate SCSI.
=> >
=> > => -----Original Message-----
=> > => From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> > => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust
=> > => Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 7:54 AM
=> > => To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> > => Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=> > =>
=> > =>
=> > => At 11:39 PM 2/11/2002 +1300, Dave Brown wrote:
=> > => > The 9190AU
=> > => >designator is on the nameplate underneath. It has a
=> > => Centronics connector
=> > => >on the back and came with a std IBM printer cable, so I guess
=> > => is a parallel
=> > => >port version. But there is another oddball ( 20? pin) connector
=> > => on the back
=> > => >too. What's it for?
=> > =>
=> > => I thought that generation was SCSI, not parallel port.
=> > => There's a FAQ at http://www.frii.com/~rjn/computer/hp9190a.htm
=> > => but it doesn't mention the 9190AU, just the 9190A.
=> > =>
=> > => - John
=> > =>
=> > =>
=> >
=> >
=>
=>
6:27 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
At 11:39 AM 2/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
Better tell that to 99% of the manufacturers and
sellers that use the
terminology then. C50 or Centronics 50 is used more often than SCSI I to
refer to these connectors. If I remember long ago PBX and multi-line phones
had a centronics-like connector as well (or was it more like an IEEE-488)but
I know it wasn't referred to as Centronics.
The phone companies used a 50 pin connector that was commonly referred to
as a "Telephone connector" for their multi-line phones. Later the same
connector was commonly used for SCSI devices so it came to be called a
"SCSI connector" but in truth both connectors were made by Amphenol. At
about the same time the smaller 36 pin connector became known as a
"Centronics connector" because Centronics was one of the largest
manufacturers of printers and they used it for their standard printer
connector. FWIW HP developed an instrument control system called "HP-IB"
and it used a 26 pin version of the same connector so that one became known
as an "HP-IB connector". Other companies utilized the HP-IB concept but
called their systems GP-IB so now the 26 pin connector became known as a
"GP-IB connector". BUT they're all made by Amphenol!
Joe
10 Feb
10 Feb
10:30 p.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Joe wrote:
The phone companies used a 50 pin connector that was
commonly referred to
as a "Telephone connector" for their multi-line phones. Later the same
I've never heard it called that in the telecom realm. A 50-pin D-shaped
male or female connector made by Amphenol was always an "Amphenol
connector".
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
11 Feb
11 Feb
10:48 a.m.
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12 Feb
12 Feb
8:43 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
The phone
companies used a 50 pin connector that was commonly referred to
as a "Telephone connector" for their multi-line phones. Later the same
I've never heard it called that in the telecom realm. A 50-pin D-shaped
male or female connector made by Amphenol was always an "Amphenol
connector". 
9:41 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
Yeah come to think of it I've seen that marking on them and in between
blocks for leased lines is where I've seen them.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford
=> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:43 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> >> The phone companies used a 50 pin connector that was
=> commonly referred to
=> >> as a "Telephone connector" for their multi-line phones.
=> Later the same
=> >
=> >I've never heard it called that in the telecom realm. A 50-pin D-shaped
=> >male or female connector made by Amphenol was always an "Amphenol
=> >connector".
=>
=> Thats a RJ21, pretty common between and on punchdown blocks.
=>
=>
=>
11 Feb
11 Feb
7:48 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
Amphenol has made all sorts of connectors and they don't generally get named
as Amphenol xxxx either - military plugs/sockets are all named by a MIL
standard/spec (or other alpha-numeric designations) and they become that MIL
number/letter name after a while even with the public.
Look at the standard 25 pin "serial" port - named DB-25, serial connector,
others but yet I have non-computer/non-serial equipment that uses it too.
The same goes for Mac SCSI - female db25, same as a PC "parallel" port - and
other items use this too such as the backs of serial modems.
No big deal, connectors are connectors and sometimes you have to either
refer/search/call them as they are used in the general industry to either
get a point across or locate replacements.
What we call DIN connectors are also called microphone connectors by CB, ham
and audio enthusiasts...even power supplies use DIN and mini-DIN.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:27 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> At 11:39 AM 2/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
=> >Better tell that to 99% of the manufacturers and sellers that use the
=> >terminology then. C50 or Centronics 50 is used more often than SCSI I to
=> >refer to these connectors. If I remember long ago PBX and
=> multi-line phones
=> >had a centronics-like connector as well (or was it more like an
=> IEEE-488)but
=> >I know it wasn't referred to as Centronics.
=>
=>
=> The phone companies used a 50 pin connector that was commonly
=> referred to
=> as a "Telephone connector" for their multi-line phones. Later the same
=> connector was commonly used for SCSI devices so it came to be called a
=> "SCSI connector" but in truth both connectors were made by Amphenol. At
=> about the same time the smaller 36 pin connector became known as a
=> "Centronics connector" because Centronics was one of the largest
=> manufacturers of printers and they used it for their standard printer
=> connector. FWIW HP developed an instrument control system
=> called "HP-IB"
=> and it used a 26 pin version of the same connector so that one
=> became known
=> as an "HP-IB connector". Other companies utilized the HP-IB concept but
=> called their systems GP-IB so now the 26 pin connector became known as a
=> "GP-IB connector". BUT they're all made by Amphenol!
=>
=> Joe
=>
=>
=>
10:59 a.m.
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1:24 p.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
And yet why should we see any difference between the US and UK - we both
only use different supply voltages :-)
There are CB an ham ris here that use the Amphenol type that you're talking
about but most of the new radios are equipped with a plain old large DIN
plug. I am about the only one that knws how to solder int his area I think
and I consequently do a lot of mike replacements for local CB and ham
operators, as well as SO-239/PL-259 coax connections. Even an older
Lafayette SSB radio has a regular 5 pin DIN, I know as I use one daily. The
last radio I had, an EF Johnson Messenger 124M had a connector made by
Amphenol similar to the threaded ring type, but was quarter turn locking.
Now on request I have converted a few mobile radios from standard
male/female DIN to the type you're talking about, both the make and female.
Seems over-the-raod truckers don't much care for their mic plug slipping
out of the overhead mounted radio and smacking them in the teeth.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:59 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> > What we call DIN connectors are also called microphone
=> connectors by CB, ham
=> > and audio enthusiasts...even power supplies use DIN and mini-DIN.
=>
=> Odd... In the UK, the CB/amateur radio 'microphone connector' is a
=> circular thing, a little larger than a DIN plug, with much larger pins
=> (say 1/8" diameter). And a screw locking ring. Often the plug is the
=> chassis-mounted part and the socket the cable mounted part.
=>
=> Serious audio enthusiasts use XLRs, of course...
=>
=> -tony
11:46 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
Yes, there's definitely a problem, and it's not helped by laxity or
complacency throughout the industry. The term DIN is an acronym for German
Industrial Standard (transliterated) and there are MANY German industrial
standards, just as there are many EIA "recommended standards." The 96-pin
connectors used in MAC's and, also on VME Backplanes, are described in
DIN41612, but that's not the DIN that describes the round thingies we refer to
as DIN connectors when describing the keyboard connector on an old PC. What's
more, there are 5-pin round DIN connectors that won't mate, though they have
the same number of pins, and the same shape. I don't know that there's a DIN
for the "mini" (PS/2) version of this same application. There are round
DIN-style connectors with which we used to attache stereo components to one
another back in the '60's, and there are others that look just like 'em that
won't fit ... same number of pins, round, ... what gives?
It's true, too, that using spec's like what applies to the venerable
38999-series used in military hardware wouln't help much in clearing up what
is clearly a can of worms. There's not much confusion about what a USB
connectors is, nor is there much confusion about an RCA jack, but little else
can be assumed to be a certain way. How do you specify the connector that
attaches the "dongle" to your notebook's PCMCIA adapter? How do you
differentiate that from the one that attaches your charger to your cell-phone?
It's true ... we've got lotsa "thingies" and not enough of a vocabulary
to
make it clear what's being talked about.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Blakeman" <rhblakeman(a)kih.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
Amphenol has made all sorts of connectors and they
don't generally get named
as Amphenol xxxx either - military plugs/sockets are all named by a MIL
standard/spec (or other alpha-numeric designations) and they become that MIL
number/letter name after a while even with the public.
Look at the standard 25 pin "serial" port - named DB-25, serial connector,
others but yet I have non-computer/non-serial equipment that uses it too.
The same goes for Mac SCSI - female db25, same as a PC "parallel" port - and
other items use this too such as the backs of serial modems.
No big deal, connectors are connectors and sometimes you have to either
refer/search/call them as they are used in the general industry to either
get a point across or locate replacements.
What we call DIN connectors are also called microphone connectors by CB, ham
and audio enthusiasts...even power supplies use DIN and mini-DIN.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:27 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> At 11:39 AM 2/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
=> >Better tell that to 99% of the manufacturers and sellers that use the
=> >terminology then. C50 or Centronics 50 is used more often than SCSI I to
=> >refer to these connectors. If I remember long ago PBX and
=> multi-line phones
=> >had a centronics-like connector as well (or was it more like an
=> IEEE-488)but
=> >I know it wasn't referred to as Centronics.
=>
=>
=> The phone companies used a 50 pin connector that was commonly
=> referred to
=> as a "Telephone connector" for their multi-line phones. Later the same
=> connector was commonly used for SCSI devices so it came to be called a
=> "SCSI connector" but in truth both connectors were made by Amphenol. At
=> about the same time the smaller 36 pin connector became known as a
=> "Centronics connector" because Centronics was one of the largest
=> manufacturers of printers and they used it for their standard printer
=> connector. FWIW HP developed an instrument control system
=> called "HP-IB"
=> and it used a 26 pin version of the same connector so that one
=> became known
=> as an "HP-IB connector". Other companies utilized the HP-IB concept but
=> called their systems GP-IB so now the 26 pin connector became known as a
=> "GP-IB connector". BUT they're all made by Amphenol!
=>
=> Joe
=>
=>
=>
12:27 p.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
Joe wrote:
At 11:39 AM 2/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
I learned to call them Amphenol "Blue Ribbon" connectors. Like the D
connectors there were several sizes depending on number of contacts.
Guess they were named for their useage, like PL259 connectors were named
Better tell that to 99% of the manufacturers and
sellers that use the
terminology then. C50 or Centronics 50 is used more often than SCSI I to
refer to these connectors. If I remember long ago PBX and multi-line phones
had a centronics-like connector as well (or was it more like an IEEE-488)but
I know it wasn't referred to as Centronics.
The phone companies used a 50 pin connector that was commonly referred to
as a "Telephone connector" for their multi-line phones. Later the same
connector was commonly used for SCSI devices so it came to be called a
"SCSI connector" but in truth both connectors were made by Amphenol. At
about the same time the smaller 36 pin connector became known as a
"Centronics connector" because Centronics was one of the largest
manufacturers of printers and they used it for their standard printer
connector. FWIW HP developed an instrument control system called "HP-IB"
and it used a 26 pin version of the same connector so that one became known
as an "HP-IB connector". Other companies utilized the HP-IB concept but
called their systems GP-IB so now the 26 pin connector became known as a
"GP-IB connector". BUT they're all made by Amphenol!
Joe from the military stock number, rather than calling
them UHF.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
1:27 p.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
I'm not sure that the military terminolg was PL-259 for the PLug type
259...I think that was Amphenol's terminology as (and while I forget the
actual number) the coaxial UHF plug and it's mating female chassis socket,
had an MIL-STD number when we had to order them from supply. They also had
an NSN, national stock number as well. Of course it's been 7 yrs since I
dealt wth mil part numbers and 12 since I've had to mess with those types.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Gary Hildebrand
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:27 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> Joe wrote:
=> >
=> > At 11:39 AM 2/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
=> > >Better tell that to 99% of the manufacturers and sellers that use the
=> > >terminology then. C50 or Centronics 50 is used more often
=> than SCSI I to
=> > >refer to these connectors. If I remember long ago PBX and
=> multi-line phones
=> > >had a centronics-like connector as well (or was it more like
=> an IEEE-488)but
=> > >I know it wasn't referred to as Centronics.
=> >
=> > The phone companies used a 50 pin connector that was
=> commonly referred to
=> > as a "Telephone connector" for their multi-line phones. Later the
same
=> > connector was commonly used for SCSI devices so it came to be called a
=> > "SCSI connector" but in truth both connectors were made by
=> Amphenol. At
=> > about the same time the smaller 36 pin connector became known as a
=> > "Centronics connector" because Centronics was one of the largest
=> > manufacturers of printers and they used it for their standard printer
=> > connector. FWIW HP developed an instrument control system
=> called "HP-IB"
=> > and it used a 26 pin version of the same connector so that one
=> became known
=> > as an "HP-IB connector". Other companies utilized the HP-IB concept
but
=> > called their systems GP-IB so now the 26 pin connector became
=> known as a
=> > "GP-IB connector". BUT they're all made by Amphenol!
=> >
=> > Joe
=>
=>
=> I learned to call them Amphenol "Blue Ribbon" connectors. Like the D
=> connectors there were several sizes depending on number of contacts.
=> Guess they were named for their useage, like PL259 connectors were named
=> from the military stock number, rather than calling them UHF.
=>
=> Gary Hildebrand
=> St. Joseph, MO
=>
1:43 p.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
I'm not sure that the military terminolg was
PL-259 for the PLug type
259...
PL-259 stands for Plug number 259. It is a circa 1940 addition to the
Signal Corps number system that the Army started in World War 1. If you
really gotta know the old Signal Corps stock number, it is 2Z7226-259.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
3:05 p.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
Yeah after I wrote that I remebered that those pre-MIL numbers are older
than I thought and that the PL-259 stood for what you said, which I knew it
to mean. How things change but yet remain the same.
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of William Donzelli
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 9:43 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> > I'm not sure that the military terminolg was PL-259 for the PLug type
=> > 259...
=>
=> PL-259 stands for Plug number 259. It is a circa 1940 addition to the
=> Signal Corps number system that the Army started in World War 1. If you
=> really gotta know the old Signal Corps stock number, it is 2Z7226-259.
=>
=> William Donzelli
=> aw288(a)osfn.org
=>
6:42 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
There is a nomenclature for those connectors, and it has nothing to do with
the printer vendor who used the 36-contact version of them.
see below, plz
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russ Blakeman" <rhblakeman(a)kih.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:39 AM
Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
Better tell that to 99% of the manufacturers and
sellers that use the
terminology then. C50 or Centronics 50 is used more often than SCSI I to
refer to these connectors. If I remember long ago PBX and multi-line phones
had a centronics-like connector as well (or was it more like an IEEE-488)but
I know it wasn't referred to as Centronics.
The one used in the PBX's was the same one used for "SCSI-1" and
there was a
week-long thread about all that a month or two ago. The 10, 20, 24, and
60-contact versions don't seem to get the name "Centronics" associated with
them How does it happen that all the catalogs (probably written by the same
mentally challenged folks who call every 'D'-subminiature connector a
DB-something and who insist on marrying their own first-cousins all the time)
By the way there's another connector known as a Centronics B connector, much
smaller and look s lot like the SCSI II with clips.
On which model of Centronics printer did these appear?
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:33 AM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> Didn't we go through this "Centrronics" business once before?
Centronics
=> connectors always have 36 contacts. If it has more or fewer
=> than that it's
=> NOT Centronics.
=>
=> There is NO Centronics SCSI connector.
=>
=> If there's another connector on the back, it's somewhat likely it's for
a
=> sheet feeder.
=>
=> Dick
=>
=> ----- Original Message -----
=> From: "Russ Blakeman" <rhblakeman(a)kih.net>
=> To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:22 AM
=> Subject: RE: Old HP scanner
=>
=>
=> > How many pins does the centronics have? Might be SCSI if it's
=> Centronics 50
=> > rather than 36. The 20 is probably a db25 that is also an
=> alternate SCSI.
=> >
=> > => -----Original Message-----
=> > => From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> > => [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust
=> > => Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 7:54 AM
=> > => To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> > => Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=> > =>
=> > =>
=> > => At 11:39 PM 2/11/2002 +1300, Dave Brown wrote:
=> > => > The 9190AU
=> > => >designator is on the nameplate underneath. It has a
=> > => Centronics connector
=> > => >on the back and came with a std IBM printer cable, so I guess
=> > => is a parallel
=> > => >port version. But there is another oddball ( 20? pin) connector
=> > => on the back
=> > => >too. What's it for?
=> > =>
=> > => I thought that generation was SCSI, not parallel port.
=> > => There's a FAQ at http://www.frii.com/~rjn/computer/hp9190a.htm
=> > => but it doesn't mention the 9190AU, just the 9190A.
=> > =>
=> > => - John
=> > =>
=> > =>
=> >
=> >
=>
=>
7:44 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher
=> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:43 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: Re: Old HP scanner
=> > By the way there's another connector known as a Centronics B
=> connector, much
=> > smaller and look s lot like the SCSI II with clips.
=> >
=> On which model of Centronics printer did these appear?
HP uses them on the newer printers such as the Laserjet 3100, 3200, 1100 and
other printer makers use them too. All that I've seen call them Centronics B
and a Google searc for the term "Centronics B" brings up a lot of hits.
8:28 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
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6:37 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, John Foust wrote:
At 11:39 PM 2/11/2002 +1300, Dave Brown wrote:
John, both the Scanjet and the Scanjet Plus used a HP proprietary
interface. The card for the Plus is reputed to work for both the
original and the Plus. The reverse is not true. In both cases,
however, it is definitely NOT parallel port.
- don
The 9190AU
designator is on the nameplate underneath. It has a Centronics connector
on the back and came with a std IBM printer cable, so I guess is a parallel
port version. But there is another oddball ( 20? pin) connector on the back
too. What's it for?
I thought that generation was SCSI, not parallel port.
There's a FAQ at http://www.frii.com/~rjn/computer/hp9190a.htm
but it doesn't mention the 9190AU, just the 9190A.
- John 
6:54 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
John, both the Scanjet and the Scanjet Plus used a HP
proprietary
interface. The card for the Plus is reputed to work for both the
original and the Plus. The reverse is not true. In both cases,
however, it is definitely NOT parallel port.
Q: Would they be damaged when prople plug them into a
"centronics" parallel port?
Or into a DB25 SCSI connector?
7:39 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
Don't know, Fred, but they'd sure as hell be easier to replace than the
HP card(s). I don't have the pinouts.
- don
John, both the Scanjet and the Scanjet Plus used
a HP proprietary
interface. The card for the Plus is reputed to work for both the
original and the Plus. The reverse is not true. In both cases,
however, it is definitely NOT parallel port.
Q: Would they be damaged when prople plug them into a
"centronics" parallel port?
Or into a DB25 SCSI connector?
8:45 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Don Maslin wrote:
Well, I've seen a few parallel ports that lost their magic smoke after an
external SCSI zip drive was plugged into them. I'd have to say it at least
isn't safe to mix up parallel and scsi ports...
The old 3-pass HP scanners I have each have a 50 pin Amphenol connector
and a 25 pin D-Sub connector. They are both scsi, and you connect a
terminator to whichever one you don't use.
One of the old HP scanners I have seems to have optics problems and won't
pass its built-in startup diagnostics. Anyone have any hints as to what
might be wrong with it?
-Toth
John, both the Scanjet and the Scanjet Plus used
a HP proprietary
interface. The card for the Plus is reputed to work for both the
original and the Plus. The reverse is not true. In both cases,
however, it is definitely NOT parallel port.
Q: Would they be damaged when prople plug them into a
"centronics" parallel port?
Or into a DB25 SCSI connector? 
13 Feb
13 Feb
6:54 a.m.
New subject: SCSI vs parallel ports and magic smoke (was Re: Old HP scanner)
--- Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> wrote:
Well, I've seen a few parallel ports that lost
their magic smoke after an
external SCSI zip drive was plugged into them. I'd have to say it at
least isn't safe to mix up parallel and scsi ports...
We lost a parallel port dongle after an enthusiastic but careless PC
tech plugged it into a SCSI port. The dongled app displayed graphical
monitoring of our satellite comms station power generation and
consumption (wind and solar and diesel generation, battery voltage level
and current drain). Seeing as we were 10000 miles from the U.S. and
winter was approaching, it was important to secure a replacement!
I hate the fact that Apple chose the DB25F for the SCSI port on
the Mac Plus. I'm not sure if they were the first, but they were
the ones to make it popular.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
10:22 a.m.
New subject: SCSI vs parallel ports and magic smoke (was Re: Old HP scanner)
Hehe, those darn Antarctic Postal System people not wanting to deliver just
because their lungs freeze immediately. So in the interim what did you do to
get the monitoring up int he event that you had no replacement?
=> -----Original Message-----
=> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Ethan Dicks
=> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 2:55 PM
=> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
=> Subject: SCSI vs parallel ports and magic smoke (was Re: Old HP scanner)
=>
=>
=>
=> --- Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net> wrote:
=> > Well, I've seen a few parallel ports that lost their magic
=> smoke after an
=> > external SCSI zip drive was plugged into them. I'd have to say it at
=> > least isn't safe to mix up parallel and scsi ports...
=>
=> We lost a parallel port dongle after an enthusiastic but careless PC
=> tech plugged it into a SCSI port. The dongled app displayed graphical
=> monitoring of our satellite comms station power generation and
=> consumption (wind and solar and diesel generation, battery voltage level
=> and current drain). Seeing as we were 10000 miles from the U.S. and
=> winter was approaching, it was important to secure a replacement!
=>
=> I hate the fact that Apple chose the DB25F for the SCSI port on
=> the Mac Plus. I'm not sure if they were the first, but they were
=> the ones to make it popular.
=>
=> -ethan
=>
=>
=> __________________________________________________
=> Do You Yahoo!?
=> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
=> http://greetings.yahoo.com
11:55 a.m.
New subject: SCSI vs parallel ports and magic smoke (was Re: Old HP scanner)
--- Russ Blakeman <rhb57(a)vol.com> wrote:
Hehe, those darn Antarctic Postal System people not
wanting to deliver
just because their lungs freeze immediately. So in the interim what did
you do to get the monitoring up int he event that you had no replacement?
I seem to recall that what we did was to bring the dongle from the
satellite ground station itself and brought it back to town. People
at the ground station couldn't monitor the power system from the control
room - they had to go to the generator room and to the battery room,
but we in town (40 miles away) could call them on the phone and tell
them there was a problem (all of our traffic, internet and telephone,
went through them over a microwave link, so calling them was no problem).
The replacement ($500) arrived about 10 days before the start of Winter.
-ethan
=> --- Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net>
wrote:
=> > Well, I've seen a few parallel ports that lost their magic
=> > smoke...
=>
=> We lost a parallel port dongle... The dongled app displayed graphical
=> monitoring of our satellite comms station power generation...
=> we were 10000 miles from the U.S. and winter was approaching...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
11 Feb
11 Feb
1:07 a.m.
New subject: Old HP scanner
Dave,
I think that's the original HP scanjet. If so it used a specail interface
card and I think it is a form of SCSI. There's used to be lots of used
Scanjets around but the cards were in short supply and very hard to find.
A lot people bought the used ScanJets cheap then spent hours and hours
looking for the required card. You'd probably be lot better off if you
dumped it and bought a new cheap scanner.
Joe
At 11:39 PM 2/11/02 +1300, you wrote:
I recently acquired an old HP scanner- 9190AU. Can
anyone give me more
information on this unit- HP don't support it anymore. (it is old!)
It looks to be almost the original Scanjet, as that's what it has on the
front, HP Scanjet, with no letters or numerals following. The 9190AU
designator is on the nameplate underneath. It has a Centronics connector
on the back and came with a std IBM printer cable, so I guess is a parallel
port version. But there is another oddball ( 20? pin) connector on the back
too. What's it for?
I don't have any software for it but I believe the original drivers were Win
3.1x only, so suggestions as to getting software to run it would be useful
as well.
Dave Brown
Christchurch
New Zealand
8131
days inactive
8136
days old
37 comments
18 participants
participants (18)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
donm＠cts.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jhfine＠idirect.com -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
mythtech＠Mac.com -
philip＠awale.qc.ca -
rhb57＠vol.com -
rhblakeman＠kih.net -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
tractorb＠ihug.co.nz