1 Mar
2017
1 Mar
'17
2:14 p.m.
Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold room sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the Selectric
operator's console.
I/O Selectrics are rare, expensive and unreliable.
If some good quality audio clips of a Selectric were available, it should
be possible to jimmy up the console terminal emulator to make the sounds.
So I am fishing for any existing audio clips with clean sounds, or someone
with a Selectric that is willing to make some recordings, or a pointer to
somewhere where all of this has been done already.
-- Charles
1 Mar
1 Mar
2:39 p.m.
On 03/01/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:
Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold
room sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the Selectric
operator's console.
There is no way that I'd wish anyone would have to put up with the 80+
dB "white noise" of fans and vacuum pumps (tape drives), not to mention
the scream of a train printer working or a high speed card punch or the
clatter of a high-speed card reader.
After a few hours, your nerves would be badly frayed. My department
resorted to distributing those yellow sponge rubber earplugs.
There are certain experiences that I would not rather relive for the
sake of nostalgia. Computer room noise would be right up there with
kidney stones and root canals. Nor would I, for the sake of nostalgia,
want to relive a day of setting logging chokers on a steep hillside.
--Chuck
2:46 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk
wrote:
But presumably on an emulator there will be some kind of volume control.
Or even unplug the speaker(s) if you want silence...
-tony
Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the
cold room sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the Selectric
operator's console.
There is no way that I'd wish anyone would have to put up with the 80+
dB "white noise" of fans and vacuum pumps (tape drives), not to mention
the scream of a train printer working or a high speed card punch or the
clatter of a high-speed card reader.
After a few hours, your nerves would be badly frayed. My department
resorted to distributing those yellow sponge rubber earplugs. 
3:03 p.m.
On 03/01/2017
11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:
> Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold room sounds; for early
On
Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> There is no way that I'd wish anyone would have to put up with the 80+
> dB "white noise" of fans and vacuum pumps (tape drives), not to mention
> the scream of a train printer working or a high speed card punch or the
> clatter of a high-speed card reader. But presumably on an emulator there will be some kind
of volume control.
Or even unplug the speaker(s) if you want silence...
But, the REAL experience did not include volume control or speaker
disconnect! THAT was part of the real experience.
The Computer History Museum had a running 1401 room. But, they did more
conscientious maintenance that we were accustomed to in the old days, so
it just didn't SMELL the same. A dish of oil on a hotplate might be
close enough, until SMELL-O-VISION catches on.
3:07 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Mar 2017, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk
wrote:
>
> Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold room sounds; for
> early
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
>
> There is no way that I'd wish anyone would have to put up with the 80+
> dB "white noise" of fans and vacuum pumps (tape drives), not to mention
> the scream of a train printer working or a high speed card punch or the
> clatter of a high-speed card reader.
But presumably on an emulator there will be some kind of volume control.
Or even unplug the speaker(s) if you want silence...
But, the REAL experience did not include volume control or speaker
disconnect! THAT was part of the real experience.
The Computer History Museum had a running 1401 room. But, they did more
conscientious maintenance that we were accustomed to in the old days, so it
just didn't SMELL the same. A dish of oil on a hotplate might be close
enough, until SMELL-O-VISION catches on.
3:09 p.m.
[ stupid gmail ]
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold room sounds; for
>>>> early
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
>>>
>>> There is no way that I'd wish anyone would have to put up with the 80+
>>> dB "white noise" of fans and vacuum pumps (tape drives), not to
mention
>>> the scream of a train printer working or a high speed card punch or the
>>> clatter of a high-speed card reader.
>
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2017, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> But presumably on an emulator there will be some kind of volume control.
>> Or even unplug the speaker(s) if you want silence...
>
>
> But, the REAL experience did not include volume control or speaker
> disconnect! THAT was part of the real experience.
>
> The Computer History Museum had a running 1401 room. But, they did more
> conscientious maintenance that we were accustomed to in the old days, so it
> just didn't SMELL the same. A dish of oil on a hotplate might be close
> enough, until SMELL-O-VISION catches on.
The real experience also included the sudden assault on your nose when
a random, and sometimes unkempt, user would grab a printout from the
giant printout wall. There was no avoiding that! The users at the
terminal often times were also a mixed bag and you rolled the dice and
took your chances with what you'd get. There was no end to the random
smells from cigarettes, to pot, to whatever crazy food was on sale in
town, to lord knows what perfume or sandalwood. That part of the
experience is going to be quite difficult to replicate....
Warner
2 Mar
2 Mar
7:26 a.m.
On 3/1/17 3:07 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:03 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> On 03/01/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:
>>>> Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold room sounds; for
>>>> early
>> On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
>>> There is no way that I'd wish anyone would have to put up with the 80+
>>> dB "white noise" of fans and vacuum pumps (tape drives), not to
mention
>>> the scream of a train printer working or a high speed card punch or the
>>> clatter of a high-speed card reader.
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2017, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote:
>> But presumably on an emulator there will be some kind of volume control.
>> Or even unplug the speaker(s) if you want silence...
>
> But, the REAL experience did not include volume control or speaker
> disconnect! THAT was part of the real experience.
>
> The Computer History Museum had a running 1401 room. But, they did more
> conscientious maintenance that we were accustomed to in the old days, so it
> just didn't SMELL the same. A dish of oil on a hotplate might be close
> enough, until SMELL-O-VISION catches on.
No idea what the big deal is about.... ;)
I just fire up the PDP-11/73 (RL02, RX02, RD52x3,), then
Microvax-II/GPX, Then the PDP-8f....
WHAT? OH YES IT'S LOUD!
The 11.73 has fans in the RX02, BA11 box, Rack back door near top and
then the RL02 spinning.
The PDP8f has two very high volume fans.
The only thing I have that's close to that is the homebrew S100 case
with two 120cfm fans
that blow across the boards and a pair of 8" shugart drives (with fans
as well).
Warms the room well and makes the power meter spin pretty good too.
Allison
5 Mar
5 Mar
3:14 a.m.
On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 07:26:25AM -0500, allison via cctalk wrote:
I just fire up the PDP-11/73 (RL02, RX02, RD52x3,),
then Microvax-II/GPX,
Then the PDP-8f....
Right now in the server room here at the house it's at 77dB -- well,
right at the server rack; it's a bit lower where I sit. There's only
7U powered up right now, though, and the x3850 doesn't have its fans
on due to the open windows and pleasant conditions outside. So, it
could be worse -- and has been.
For instance, I could turn on the G5 RackMac to measure it, but since
I have those windows open it would only piss off the neigbhors :-)
(ok, ok, once the OS takes over the fan control, that one drops to
only "pretty annoying" from "banshee". Where did Apple get these
damned fans from, anyway?)
mcl
1 Mar
1 Mar
6:22 p.m.
On 03/01/2017 11:46 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
But presumably on an emulator there will be some kind
of volume
control. Or even unplug the speaker(s) if you want silence...
But then, what of the "realism"? Is the sound of a half-ton of
dynamite going off realistic at 50 dB? Many aspects of "the good old
days" weren't all that good.
I suppose we could also provide a sensation of reality by slowing our
modern systems to a crawl, having them go down every few days, and
include some rats under a raised floor. Thank you, no.
I like my computers quiet.
--Chuck
7:55 p.m.
On 3/1/2017 4:22 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:46 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
You mean like using the INTERNET. I read translated Asian novels,
and the update a chapter ever few days, and that is my favorite
site with all crap ads,bells and whistles. Two to three minutes
just load a ascii text file on the screen, on a good day.
But presumably on an emulator there will be some
kind of volume
control. Or even unplug the speaker(s) if you want silence...
But then, what of the "realism"? Is the sound of a half-ton of
dynamite going off realistic at 50 dB? Many aspects of "the good old
days" weren't all that good.
I suppose we could also provide a sensation of reality by slowing our
modern systems to a crawl, having them go down every few days, and
include some rats under a raised floor. Thank you, no. I like my computers quiet.
--Chuck
Well we talk to tablets and phones now, how long before they talk back?
Ben.
8:22 p.m.
On 2017-03-01 7:55 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
On 3/1/2017 4:22 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
And when they do:
?6079 Smith W.! Yes, YOU! Bend lower, please! You can do better than
that. You?re not trying.'
--Toby
On 03/01/2017 11:46 AM, Tony Duell wrote:
You mean like using the INTERNET. I read translated Asian novels,
and the update a chapter ever few days, and that is my favorite
site with all crap ads,bells and whistles. Two to three minutes
just load a ascii text file on the screen, on a good day.
But presumably on an emulator there will be some
kind of volume
control. Or even unplug the speaker(s) if you want silence...
But then, what of the "realism"? Is the sound of a half-ton of
dynamite going off realistic at 50 dB? Many aspects of "the good old
days" weren't all that good.
I suppose we could also provide a sensation of reality by slowing our
modern systems to a crawl, having them go down every few days, and
include some rats under a raised floor. Thank you, no. I like my computers quiet.
--Chuck
Well we talk to tablets and phones now, how long before they talk back? Ben.
2 Mar
2 Mar
8:30 a.m.
On 2 March 2017 at 01:55, ben via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Well we talk to tablets and phones now, how long
before they talk back?
A short list of shipping products that do that:
Amazon Echo
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GAGVIE4/
Google Home
https://madeby.google.com/home/
Microsoft Cortana
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/cortana
(The latter is a free component of Windows 10 Anniversary Update. It
startled both me, and later my landlord, when I demonstrated to him
that I could operate a (nearly 10-year-old) laptop by just talking to
it, and it answering.
I have a Win10AE partition on this desktop, but it has no microphone
or camera. I prefer it that way, TBH. :?)
Summary: it is in fact some time since speech became a primary, and
indeed sole, UI for some products. This is indeed their selling point:
you automate your home by asking an "intelligent" assistant to dim the
lights, or for a weather forecast, or to record a TV program for you,
etc.
It's not coming soon. It's been here for a couple of years now.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
11:11 a.m.
On Thu, 2 Mar 2017, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
Summary: it is in fact some time since speech became a
primary, and
indeed sole, UI for some products. This is indeed their selling point:
you automate your home by asking an "intelligent" assistant to dim the
lights, or for a weather forecast, or to record a TV program for you,
etc.
It's not coming soon. It's been here for a couple of years now.
And, it will reach a level of reliability to actually be usable, "in a few
more years". "next year in jerusalem!"
Attempts at speech recognition date back to the Bells (Alexander Melville
Bell and his son Alexander Graham "quick with a patent" Bell).
Now, Siri can tell Kripke, "I'm sorry Bawwy, I don't understand
'wecommend
a westauwant'"
Radio Shack at one time sold a repackaged Votrax voice output, a voice
input, and an X-10 interface, as add-ons to TRS80 (model 1). It hardly
took any time at all to get those to the point where it would accept, "LET
THERE BE LIGHT", and respond with, "BY YOUR COMMAND", and do an X10
"LIGHTS ON". None of those accessory peripherals lasted long.
12:01 p.m.
On 3/2/2017 9:11 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, 2 Mar 2017, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
A new MUSEM project. :)
Ben.
Summary: it is in fact some time since speech
became a primary, and
indeed sole, UI for some products. This is indeed their selling point:
you automate your home by asking an "intelligent" assistant to dim the
lights, or for a weather forecast, or to record a TV program for you,
etc.
It's not coming soon. It's been here for a couple of years now.
And, it will reach a level of reliability to actually be usable, "in a
few more years". "next year in jerusalem!"
Attempts at speech recognition date back to the Bells (Alexander
Melville Bell and his son Alexander Graham "quick with a patent" Bell).
Now, Siri can tell Kripke, "I'm sorry Bawwy, I don't understand
'wecommend a westauwant'"
Radio Shack at one time sold a repackaged Votrax voice output, a voice
input, and an X-10 interface, as add-ons to TRS80 (model 1). It hardly
took any time at all to get those to the point where it would accept,
"LET THERE BE LIGHT", and respond with, "BY YOUR COMMAND", and do an
X10
"LIGHTS ON". None of those accessory peripherals lasted long.
3 Mar
3 Mar
11:13 a.m.
On 2 March 2017 at 17:11, Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
And, it will reach a level of reliability to actually
be usable, "in a few
more years". "next year in jerusalem!"
I haven't tried either the Google or Amazon offerings. I have tried to
teach my elderly mother to use Siri and Google speech recognition on
her iPad, but unsuccessfully.
I have played with Cortana and it's decent. It is the beginning of
something useful.
But I have, for instance, a blind friend who has an Amazon Echo and he
likes it. It can control his lighting & heating for him, two things
difficult for blind people to do.
He also uses Siri a lot on his iPhone and it too works well for him.
We both find it ironic that an almost-buttonless phone is the most
accessible to blind people, but it is and it works. Now with Siri,
it's better. He just dictates text messages and emails and it can
spell better than he can.
It is not great, but it works, now, today, and it's selling.
Now, Siri can tell Kripke, "I'm sorry Bawwy,
I don't understand 'wecommend a
westauwant'"
Heh. :?)
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
4 Mar
4 Mar
3:03 p.m.
ROTFL.
On 3/3/2017 10:31 AM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Mar 02, 2017 at 08:11:34AM -0800, Fred Cisin
via cctalk wrote:
It hardly took any time at all to get those to
the point where it would
accept, "LET THERE BE LIGHT"
"I'll ... have to think about it."
mcl
9 Mar
9 Mar
11:22 a.m.
On 03/02/2017 08:30 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
A short list of shipping products that do that:
Amazon Echo
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01GAGVIE4/
Google Home
https://madeby.google.com/home/
Microsoft Cortana
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/cortana
Now that the cat's out of the bag, how soon before you can tell your
smart TV "Dear CIA, I'm hungry, can you send over a pizza pls, k thx bye"
11:39 a.m.
On 9 March 2017 at 17:22, Ray Arachelian <ray at arachelian.com> wrote:
Now that the cat's out of the bag, how soon before you can tell your
smart TV "Dear CIA, I'm hungry, can you send over a pizza pls, k thx bye"
:-D
Or the XCKD version:
https://xkcd.com/1807/
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven ? Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053
1 Mar
1 Mar
3:29 p.m.
On 2017-03-01 3:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 03/01/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk
wrote:
.... or the wailing of the operator when he
realizes he put the carriage
control tape on backwards of did not put down the brushes, its amazing
how much paper you can stuff under the cover of a 1403....
Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the
cold room sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the Selectric
operator's console.
There is no way that I'd wish anyone would have to put
up with the 80+
dB "white noise" of fans and vacuum pumps (tape drives), not to mention
the scream of a train printer working or a high speed card punch or the
clatter of a high-speed card reader.
After a few hours, your nerves would be badly frayed. My department
resorted to distributing those yellow sponge rubber earplugs.
I have been in rooms
where they had a box of earplugs at the door, but
that came later in my field service rep days we where told that the
noise was at a "safe" level, however I do know of at least one person
that is still in field service that now has hearing aids that are paid
for by the company.
There are certain experiences that I would not rather relive for the
sake of nostalgia. Computer room noise would be right up there with
kidney stones and root canals. Nor would I, for the sake of nostalgia,
want to relive a day of setting logging chokers on a steep hillside.
--Chuck
Paul.
6:01 p.m.
ons 2017-03-01 klockan 16:29 -0400 skrev Paul Berger via cctalk:
On 2017-03-01 3:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
The classic thing is discovering due to the printer's howl that all the
requirements for one of the batch jobs wasn't done....
On 03/01/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via
cctalk wrote:
.... or the wailing of the operator when he
realizes he put the carriage
control tape on backwards of did not put down the brushes, its amazing
how much paper you can stuff under the cover of a 1403.... Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the
cold room sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the Selectric
operator's console.
There is no way that I'd wish anyone would have to put
up with the 80+
dB "white noise" of fans and vacuum pumps (tape drives), not to mention
the scream of a train printer working or a high speed card punch or the
clatter of a high-speed card reader.
4 Mar
4 Mar
3:06 p.m.
On 3/1/2017 2:29 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
I have been in rooms where they had a box of earplugs
at the door, but
that came later in my field service rep days we where told that the
noise was at a "safe" level, however I do know of at least one person
that is still in field service that now has hearing aids that are paid
for by the company.
I suffer from tinnitus, likely due to too much time in computer rooms
with an IBM 1410, PDP-11s, Datacraft 6024, IBM 7094 II, IBM 360/65 MP,
Amdahl 470, IBM 3084 and IBM 3090 machines and peripherals in their
respective days. And then there is the time I currently spend on my
collection. No hearing aid yet, but I can certainly tell that my
hearing is not what it used to be, or even what it should be.
4:13 p.m.
On Mar 1, 2017, at 11:39 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
There are certain experiences that I would not rather relive for the
sake of nostalgia. Computer room noise would be right up there with
kidney stones and root canals.
Having experienced both 1980s computer rooms and passing kidney stones, I would like to
offer my opinion that visiting a noisy computer room is something quite fun to do at least
once, while one could skip the experience of passing kidney stones entirely without any
regrets.
In my experience, visiting a computer room was enjoyable, while hanging out there for a
full shift got rather tedious. The computer room I worked in at UCI had an enclosed,
glassed-in office for the computer operator that provided a nice retreat from the noise
between tape swaps and printer handling tasks. I also fondly remember that warm spot
behind the Convex C240 power supply cabinet exhausts, which was the warmest spot in the
room when the main Computer Science building AC kicked in at 6AM and the computer room
temperature plummeted for a while.
For some reason, I fondly remember the scream of a DEC TU77 drive, and would like to have
one in my collection. Clearly, I must be somewhat touched in the head. :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
4:21 p.m.
In my experience, visiting a computer room was
enjoyable, while hanging out
there for a full shift got rather tedious.
It got awful cold in there working on servers for several hours. People would
ask why I was in a thick jacket when it was 75 F outside.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. -- Tacitus ---------
4:22 p.m.
On 03/04/2017 03:13 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
For some reason, I fondly remember the scream of a DEC
TU77 drive, and would like to have one in my collection.
Clearly, I must be somewhat touched in the head. :)
Scream? Or buzz? We had a
TU77, and when we ran backups,
it made a loud buzzing as it was doing start/stop about as
fast as it could go. Or, are you referring to the whine as
it went into rewind?
The 200 IPS Hitachi drives on our 360 were much louder in
the rewind, you could hear it anywhere in the machine room.
Jon
4:27 p.m.
On Mar 4, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Jon Elson <elson at
pico-systems.com> wrote:
On 03/04/2017 03:13 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
I mostly remember the shop-vacuum-like whine of the vacuum pump, and the fluttery thwack
of the tape loops forming on load-up. The other tape motion sounds didn't stick in my
memory so much. I do remember the buzzy grind of the capstan motors on the C240's tape
drive; I don't recall whether that drive's OEM was Fujitsu or Hitachi, but I found
it quite enjoying to watch as an engineering student.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
For some reason, I fondly remember the scream of
a DEC TU77 drive, and would like to have one in my collection. Clearly, I must be somewhat
touched in the head. :)
Scream? Or buzz? We had a TU77, and when we ran backups,
it made a loud buzzing as it was doing start/stop about as fast as it could go. Or, are
you referring to the whine as it went into rewind?
4:39 p.m.
On 03/04/2017 01:27 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
I mostly remember the shop-vacuum-like whine of the
vacuum pump, and
the fluttery thwack of the tape loops forming on load-up. The other
tape motion sounds didn't stick in my memory so much. I do remember
the buzzy grind of the capstan motors on the C240's tape drive; I
don't recall whether that drive's OEM was Fujitsu or Hitachi, but I
found it quite enjoying to watch as an engineering student.
You could tell from across a noisy computer room when one of the guys
was running the tape I/O section of the Navy COBOL audit tests. The
short-record section made a 607 or 657 tape drive sing quite loudly. I
believe that attribute was used for the CDC rendition of "Anchors Aweigh"...
--Chuck
8:09 p.m.
On 03/04/2017 03:27 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
I
mostly remember the shop-vacuum-like whine of the vacuum pump, and the fluttery thwack of
the tape loops forming on load-up. The other tape motion sounds didn't stick in my
memory so much. I do remember the buzzy grind of the capstan motors on the C240's tape
drive; I don't recall whether that drive's OEM was Fujitsu or Hitachi, but I found
it quite enjoying to watch as an engineering student. Hmmm, on our TU77, the vacuum
pump was not that audible, but
then it was in a room with a LOT of noise. Liebert air
conditioner, 11/780, RM05, RP07 and then the TU77. When the
drive was not running flat out, the bup-bup from the tape
columns was not real loud, but when you were pushing data
fast, like BACKUP with /buffers=5, it made a pretty steady
BRRRRRR noise.
Jon
11:35 p.m.
On Mar 4, 2017, at 17:09, Jon Elson <elson at
pico-systems.com> wrote:
Hmmm, on our TU77, the vacuum pump was not that audible, but then it was in a room with a
LOT of noise.
My memory might be faulty, since it has been about 25 years since I've heard a TU77. I
don't suppose anybody near southern California has an extra one I might adopt? :)
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
5 Mar
5 Mar
12:42 a.m.
On 03/04/2017 10:35 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
Oh, get a TU78, for sure! I wish we had gotten the TU78,
instead of TU77. It would have made backups a lot more
pleasant.
Jon
On Mar 4,
2017, at 17:09, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
Hmmm, on our TU77, the vacuum pump was not that audible, but then it was in a room with a
LOT of noise.
My memory might be faulty, since it has been about 25 years since
I've heard a TU77. I don't suppose anybody near southern California has an extra
one I might adopt? :)
2:33 a.m.
On Mar 4, 2017, at 21:42, Jon Elson <elson at
pico-systems.com> wrote:
Oh, get a TU78, for sure!
I would settle for either!
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
4 Mar
4 Mar
4:34 p.m.
On 03/04/2017 01:13 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
Having experienced both 1980s computer rooms and
passing kidney
stones, I would like to offer my opinion that visiting a noisy
computer room is something quite fun to do at least once, while one
could skip the experience of passing kidney stones entirely without
any regrets.
The computer floor at CDC SVLOPS had perhaps 15-20'high ceilings with
terrible fluorescent lighting. Apparently, it was originally intended
as a manufacturing floor. At any given time, there were several
system, oceans of disk and tape drives around, along with the usual
printers, readers and punches. Talking to someone meant getting up
within several inches of someone and raising the voice to be heard. All
hard surfaces--nothing sound-absorbent in the least.
Having spent a lot of time in a steel mill, I'd say that the noise level
was comparable. And, between the over-enthusiastic air conditioning
and background noise, one's nerves were pretty frayed at the end of a shift.
In my experience, visiting a computer room was
enjoyable, while
hanging out there for a full shift got rather tedious. The computer
room I worked in at UCI had an enclosed, glassed-in office for the
computer operator that provided a nice retreat from the noise between
tape swaps and printer handling tasks. I also fondly remember that
warm spot behind the Convex C240 power supply cabinet exhausts, which
was the warmest spot in the room when the main Computer Science
building AC kicked in at 6AM and the computer room temperature.
During the OPEC oil embargo in the 1970s, this then-California resident
was sent to the Twin Cities in January for some work at the Arden Hills
plant. Even the Ramada Inn kept room temperatures down. In the
offices, there was ice on the *inside* of windows. I discovered that if
I took a pillow and a good book to the ADL building, the most cozy place
in all of Minneapolis most likely was in the STAR-100 room, nestled
between the SBUs.
My hearing is okay, but I do have a problem with tinnitus and loud
sounds severely distorting. However, I can still hear the birds
singing, so life is good.
--Chuck
11:11 a.m.
On Mar 5, 2017, at 3:02 AM, Mark Linimon via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 04, 2017 at 01:34:25PM -0800, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Well, there are "daylight" type fluorescent bulbs. Those are quite good.
We've had them around the house (my electronics workshop and our home office) for
years now.
The more modern replacement would be daylight (5500 K) LEDs, and in fact you can get LEDs
that fit in fluorescent fixtures, either as is or (probably a better choice) with the
ballast removed. Something to be considered in the future...
paul
terrible fluorescent lighting.
There's another kind?
12:49 p.m.
On 03/05/2017 12:02 AM, Mark Linimon wrote:
On Sat, Mar 04, 2017 at 01:34:25PM -0800, Chuck Guzis
via cctalk
wrote:
The fixtures themselves were so high that they *did* make for some
recreation. Bored operators would engage in late-night "ring toss"
with magtape write rings to see who could land the most on top of the
fixtures.
I'm sure that the maintenance people detested getting the big ladder out
and clearing them off the fixtures, but they weren't around at 2AM to
observe the evil deeds.
I don't recall many who used those yellow rings for their intended
purpose. It was just too easy to forget to remove one. You mounted
tapes without and reached around the back of the reel with a punch card
and tripped the "finger" that detected the ring. So the things
accumulated in great piles.
This probably changed (I don't recall) when the 66x auto-loaders came
into the picture.
--Chuck
terrible fluorescent lighting.
There's another kind?
1:41 p.m.
New subject: Magtape write rings [Was: Re: Full immersion emulation]
On Mar 5, 2017, at 09:49, Chuck Guzis via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I don't recall many who used those yellow rings for their intended
purpose. It was just too easy to forget to remove one. You mounted
tapes without and reached around the back of the reel with a punch card
and tripped the "finger" that detected the ring.
So, was the write enable state latched at some point in the loading cycle on those drives?
That surprises me, because I would have expected the write enable sensor to interrupt
write current as combinatorial function on the drive, and/or pass sensor status up to the
formatter a combinatorial signal.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
2:27 p.m.
New subject: Magtape write rings [Was: Re: Full immersion emulation]
On 03/05/2017 10:41 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
So, was the write enable state latched at some point in the loading
cycle on those drives? That surprises me, because I would have
expected the write enable sensor to interrupt write current as
combinatorial function on the drive, and/or pass sensor status up to
the formatter a combinatorial signal.
Yup. You loaded the tape, then bumped the "finger". As I mentioned,
this worked on 60x and 65x drives. Since the autoloaders closed the
door as part of the cycle, this probably didn't work for 66x.
This actually worked pretty well--you never ran the risk of leaving a
ring in inadvertently. The consequence of forgetting to enable write
was usually far less dire than mistakenly writing to a tape that was
supposed to be read-only.
--Chuck
3:04 p.m.
New subject: Magtape write rings [Was: Re: Full immersion emulation]
On 2017-Mar-05, at 11:27 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 03/05/2017 10:41 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk
wrote:
In my limited experience of drives, but I expect it's typical, the write enable
is electro-mechanically latched: if the write ring is present at load, a solenoid
is activated which pulls the sense finger further in to hold the finger off the write
ring,
so it won't be a friction and wear point while running.
The solenoid is released at unload.
So, was the write enable state latched at some point in the loading
cycle on those drives? That surprises me, because I would have
expected the write enable sensor to interrupt write current as
combinatorial function on the drive, and/or pass sensor status up to
the formatter a combinatorial signal.
Yup. You loaded the tape, then bumped the "finger". As I mentioned,
this worked on 60x and 65x drives. Since the autoloaders closed the
door as part of the cycle, this probably didn't work for 66x.
This actually worked pretty well--you never ran the risk of leaving a
ring in inadvertently. The consequence of forgetting to enable write
was usually far less dire than mistakenly writing to a tape that was
supposed to be read-only.
3:18 p.m.
New subject: Magtape write rings [Was: Re: Full immersion emulation]
On 03/05/2017 12:41 PM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
On a number of drives, there was a pneumatic latch! When
the vacuum motor started, there was a little air pump there
that produced air bearing air (or in the REALLY bad old
days, air pressure to blow the tape away from the vacuum
capstans). That air pressed a finger against the write
ring. if the write ring was present, the finger was
blocked, and then retracted, and the write was enabled. if
the finger was not blocked (no write ring present) then the
finger extended and locked out as long as air pressure was
present (until the vacuum motor shut off.)
Some other drives had a ring that was forced back when the
write ring was present. The ring had reflectors on it, and
a photocell read the reflector during the tape load sequence
to set the write enable FF.
You couldn't just leave a probe against the write ring all
the time as it would cause the write ring to work out of the
groove and jam the reel hub.
Mention above about the vacuum capstans. Some really old
drives had two continuously counterrotating capstans with
slots in them. Valves applied either air pressure, to make
the tape float over the capstan, or vacuum, to make the
capstan grab the tape.
Jon
On Mar 5,
2017, at 09:49, Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I don't recall many who used those yellow rings for their intended
purpose. It was just too easy to forget to remove one. You mounted
tapes without and reached around the back of the reel with a punch card
and tripped the "finger" that detected the ring.
So, was the write
enable state latched at some point in the loading cycle on those drives? That surprises
me, because I would have expected the write enable sensor to interrupt write current as
combinatorial function on the drive, and/or pass sensor status up to the formatter a
combinatorial signal.
3:33 p.m.
New subject: Magtape write rings [Was: Re: Full immersion emulation]
That all makes perfect sense now. Thanks!
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
3:37 p.m.
New subject: Magtape write rings [Was: Re: Full immersion emulation]
On 03/05/2017 12:18 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Mention above about the vacuum capstans. Some really old drives had
two continuously counterrotating capstans with slots in them. Valves
applied either air pressure, to make the tape float over the capstan,
or vacuum, to make the capstan grab the tape.
Doesn't feel "really old" to me, at least. :)
In the CDC drives, there was a voice-coil type valve for switching the
vacuum around. I understood that the 65x units had a "cost reduced"
version of the valve, from the 60x units. All in all, I much preferred
the big orange 60x drives to the gray metal and blue glass of the 65x
one--the 60x drives just felt more sturdy.
--Chuck
1 Mar
1 Mar
3:13 p.m.
On 3/1/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:
So I am fishing for any existing audio clips with
clean sounds, or someone
with a Selectric that is willing to make some recordings, or a pointer to
somewhere where all of this has been done already.
-- Charles
Golfball typewriter group on yahoo for a lot of people who have
Selectrics.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/golfballtypewritershop/info
I suspect this is someone on the group on Youtube with an I/O Selectric
https://youtu.be/CRdma6NINIw
3:22 p.m.
On 01/03/17 21:13, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
On 3/1/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk
wrote:
Yes, that's me! More I/O Selectric sounds available on request - it's
sitting
in my employer's office connected to the 360/30 panel+emulator. But it
tends to sound much the same whatever it's printing.
--
Lawrence Wilkinson lawrence at ljw.me.uk
The IBM 360/30 page http://www.ljw.me.uk/ibm360
So I am fishing for any existing audio clips with
clean sounds, or
someone
with a Selectric that is willing to make some recordings, or a
pointer to
somewhere where all of this has been done already.
-- Charles
Golfball typewriter group on yahoo for a lot of people who have
Selectrics.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/golfballtypewritershop/info
I suspect this is someone on the group on Youtube with an I/O Selectric
https://youtu.be/CRdma6NINIw
4:37 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Lawrence Wilkinson via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 01/03/17 21:13, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
I think that youtube clip has enough for at least a proof-of-bad-idea test.
Yes, each typed character's sound is pretty much indistinguishable, but the
mind is very good at detecting the same sound multiple times in a row, so
sampling a handful of strikes and picking randomly should fix that.
The sound of the shift key prepositioning the typeball.
The sound of " ".
The CR/LF sound; at some point at might be could to have different clips of
different line length CRs.
I still need the "Alert Bell" sound. (From the Honeywell 6001 Operator's
console, not the 360/91 fire alarm bell, though).
Thank you all,
-- Charles
On 3/1/2017 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via cctalk
wrote:
sitting
in my employer's office connected to the 360/30 panel+emulator. But it
tends to sound much the same whatever it's printing.
So I am fishing for any existing audio clips with
clean sounds, or
someone
with a Selectric that is willing to make some recordings, or a pointer to
somewhere where all of this has been done already.
-- Charles
Golfball typewriter group on yahoo for a lot of people who have
Selectrics.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/golfballtypewritershop/info
I suspect this is someone on the group on Youtube with an I/O Selectric
https://youtu.be/CRdma6NINIw
Yes, that's me! More I/O Selectric sounds available on request - it's
3:54 p.m.
On 2017-03-01 3:14 PM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:
Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold
room sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the Selectric
operator's console.
I/O Selectrics are rare, expensive and unreliable.
They are all mechanical and
stood up remarkably well to hammering away
day and night printing out the console log, considering what they are, I
would hardly think unreliable fits. Most of the problems where due to
neglect or poor maintenance. The norm was to do a little as possible
plus customers where often reluctant to give up the console for
maintenance, so worm parts that should have been replaced often never
did. Quite often the center bears where worn out which causes the cycle
shaft to wobble a little and then you start fudging the adjustments to
compensate and it just gets worse from there, but replacing the center
bearing is a big job so most people avoided it. This was true of other
selectric terminals as well. The OP guys ( fixed the office selectrics)
would be horrified when they saw the condition of some of these
machines. The last 1052 I saw operating the space cam was so worn out
that it wobbled, but it still worked.
The original selectric I/O was just a standard office selectric with
contacts and solenoids hung off it to make it work as a terminal, or in
the case of the 1052 a printer ( the keyboard in a 1052 is a keypunch
keyboard mechanism). They where never designed to hammer away at the
full speed 15.5 cps for hours on end. Later IBM came out with the I/O
2 which was designed from the ground up to be used as a I/O device and
was much sturdier, but they came along too late for system consoles, by
then consoles where CRTs and the console printer was a wire matrix printer.
If some good quality audio clips of a Selectric were available, it should
be possible to jimmy up the console terminal emulator to make the sounds.
So I am fishing for any existing audio clips with clean sounds, or someone
with a Selectric that is willing to make some recordings, or a pointer to
somewhere where all of this has been done already.
-- Charles
Paul.
4:22 p.m.
All this talk of the sounds hammering away and the console reminded me.
There's another part of the experience: when a system crashed...
There was a distinctive pattern of sounds when the register dump was
printed, some beeps from the console and often the groans of the
people that were affected when the system rebooted...
Warner
4:29 p.m.
What about the chilling sound of a head crash?
Ziiinnnnggg kluk kluk kluk...
On 1 March 2017 at 23:22, Warner Losh via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
All this talk of the sounds hammering away and the
console reminded me.
There's another part of the experience: when a system crashed...
There was a distinctive pattern of sounds when the register dump was
printed, some beeps from the console and often the groans of the
people that were affected when the system rebooted...
Warner
10:21 p.m.
On 03/01/2017 02:54 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
On 2017-03-01 3:14 PM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:
Well, we still had a Selectric (1050) on our 360/65 at
Washington University up until the end. I'm pretty sure it
was the most unreliable part of the machine. It seems about
every two weeks it would break the timing belt, which meant
the clutch had to be rebuilt. IBM had two 1050's there, and
would swap them every time one broke. They really did run
the 1050 hard on that system, it was printing a line about
every 10 seconds for about 14 hours straight every week day.
Jon
Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the
cold room
sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of
the Selectric
operator's console.
I/O Selectrics are rare, expensive and unreliable.
They are all mechanical and
stood up remarkably well to
hammering away day and night printing out the console log,
considering what they are, I would hardly think unreliable
fits.
11:36 p.m.
On 03/01/2017 07:21 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Well, we still had a Selectric (1050) on our 360/65 at
Washington
University up until the end. I'm pretty sure it was the most
unreliable part of the machine. It seems about every two weeks it
would break the timing belt, which meant the clutch had to be
rebuilt. IBM had two 1050's there, and would swap them every time
one broke. They really did run the 1050 hard on that system, it was
printing a line about every 10 seconds for about 14 hours straight
every week day.
That's one area where CRTs are sooo much better. The S/360 machines
just pounded the hell out of the SYSLOG device. I guess the Selectrics
were better than the Model B-based console typewriters, which always
seemed as if they were going to fly apart.
As a typewriter, the Selectric is pretty good. I still have a
correcting Selectri III with a broken drive belt (I have a new belt
waiting to be installed), but I haven't gotten up the courage to repair
it myself yet--it's not a simple job.
--Chuck
11:52 p.m.
On 3/1/2017 8:36 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
That's one area where CRTs are sooo much better.
The S/360 machines
just pounded the hell out of the SYSLOG device. I guess the Selectrics
were better than the Model B-based console typewriters, which always
seemed as if they were going to fly apart.
As a typewriter, the Selectric is pretty good. I still have a
correcting Selectri III with a broken drive belt (I have a new belt
waiting to be installed), but I haven't gotten up the courage to repair
it myself yet--it's not a simple job.
--Chuck
IBM called up the local guy for our area when the University bought the
360/50 and told him to report for training. They delivered a /40 for a
year because of problems with making the 50 work.
He was the regional IBM Selectric repair guy. The 1050 on our systems
always ran fine. As did all the Selectrics around the area. He still
had those support calls.
thanks
Jim
2 Mar
2 Mar
1:04 a.m.
On 03/01/2017 10:52 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
On 3/1/2017 8:36 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Well, I remember the /50 at Rolla, they ran very little
locally while I was there, mostly used it as an RJE terminal.
Cards and 1402 printer. So, the 1050 was not real busy.
The /65 at Wash U was very heavily used, and souped up to
the 9's. It had dual internal memories (as opposed to the
horrible predecessor, a model 50 with LCS, which made it run
slower than a /40). With the dual identical memory units,
you could use interleaving. Anyway, they had 2 Memorex 3764
DASD controllers, first with Calcomp 3330 emulators, and
then with Memorex 3350 substitutes. They got Memorex to
hack up a version of MP65 so that they could take advantage
of RPS. They also had a bank of Hitachi 200 IPS tape
drives. And, so, the 1050 was just chattering away almost
constantly from about 7 AM to 7 PM. I think they finally
got a CRT for the tape operator. But, they kept the 1050 as
main console for the hardcopy record.
Jon
That's one area where CRTs are sooo much
better. The
S/360 machines
just pounded the hell out of the SYSLOG device. I guess
the Selectrics
were better than the Model B-based console typewriters,
which always
seemed as if they were going to fly apart.
As a typewriter, the Selectric is pretty good. I still
have a
correcting Selectri III with a broken drive belt (I have
a new belt
waiting to be installed), but I haven't gotten up the
courage to repair
it myself yet--it's not a simple job.
--Chuck
IBM called up the local guy for our area when the
University bought the 360/50 and told him to report for
training. They delivered a /40 for a year because of
problems with making the 50 work.
He was the regional IBM Selectric repair guy. The 1050 on
our systems always ran fine. As did all the Selectrics
around the area. He still had those support calls.
1:26 a.m.
On 3/1/2017 10:04 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Well, I remember the /50 at Rolla, they ran very
little locally while
I was there, mostly used it as an RJE terminal.
Cards and 1402 printer. So, the 1050 was not real busy.
It ran MVT21 thru 1975.
The MVT version of the workstation was one of
the first ever run on an actual 360 in some time. Most people were
using 360/20's with the RJE code supplied with Hasp. The 360/20 code
was all macros and quite fun to read, whereas the one for such as the 50
was not.
I know they had to fix some bugs and customize it so that they could
enter jobs to both the data center in Columbia and still run local
jobs. Just some magic on the job card. Normal users never saw it, but
the printer code was modified to spool jobs locally for printing.
the only thing that was done of a major modification is that they
decommissioned the CPS system, which was the interactive PL1 system.
The 2741s and controller were dedicated to a setup to allow access to
TSO remotely which was in Columbia, Mo. CPS could not share terminals
with any OS functions. When CPS and OS/MVT were running MVT had no clue
that CPS terminal hardware was attached. You could however spool print jobs.
CPS was implemented as a firmware extension, and ran in a 1mb attached
LCS when it was up.
With 30 2741s which I didn't mention earlier we certainly had the right
CE. You couldn't interchange the type balls, but everything else worked
the same.
thanks
jim
8:36 a.m.
On 2017-03-02 12:36 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
On 03/01/2017 07:21 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
Its a lot easier on an OP selectric than it is on an I/O, on an I/O
there is a lot more stuff in the way. After you change a few dozen it
gets pretty routine. One of the banking terminals I serviced would jam
mid-cycle if the type ball hit the line finder on the document feed, and
since thy had a stronger motor than the OP selectric it would at least
tear teeth off the belt if it didn't break it. In some banks the
terminals where set into the counter so the bank's customers would come
by to offer their sage advise while you had one torn apart for something
like a motor belt.
Paul.
Well, we still had a Selectric (1050) on our
360/65 at Washington
University up until the end. I'm pretty sure it was the most
unreliable part of the machine. It seems about every two weeks it
would break the timing belt, which meant the clutch had to be
rebuilt. IBM had two 1050's there, and would swap them every time
one broke. They really did run the 1050 hard on that system, it was
printing a line about every 10 seconds for about 14 hours straight
every week day.
That's one area where CRTs are sooo much better. The S/360 machines
just pounded the hell out of the SYSLOG device. I guess the Selectrics
were better than the Model B-based console typewriters, which always
seemed as if they were going to fly apart.
As a typewriter, the Selectric is pretty good. I still have a
correcting Selectri III with a broken drive belt (I have a new belt
waiting to be installed), but I haven't gotten up the courage to repair
it myself yet--it's not a simple job.
--Chuck 
4:27 a.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Jon Elson
via cctalk
Sent: 02 March 2017 03:21
To: Paul Berger <phb.hfx at gmail.com>; General at classiccmp.org;
Discussion at classiccmp.org:On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Full immersion emulation
On 03/01/2017 02:54 PM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote:
I am a bit surprised you go that many belt breakages. The one on the 360/67 at Newcastle
was utterly reliable, as was the 2741 we had on our remote connection, and also the same
unit in the 1130 console. The usual reason for belt breakages is contamination with oil
which attacks the rubber so perhaps there was some over enthusiasm going on here. On the
other hand I do remember that the CE who came into the IBM Manchester (UK) office to fix
the IBM 1800 based PABX
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_1750,_2750_and_3750_Switching_Systems
used to curse, as the 2741 console on that was usually switched off, so got gummed up, and
required a clean and lube before he could start work on the PABX....
Dave
On 2017-03-01 3:14 PM, Charles Anthony via cctalk wrote:
Well, we still had a Selectric (1050) on our
360/65 at Washington University up
until the end. I'm pretty sure it was the most unreliable part of the machine.
It seems about every two weeks it would break the timing belt, which meant
the clutch had to be rebuilt. IBM had two 1050's there, and would swap
them every time one broke. They really did run the 1050 hard on that
system, it was printing a line about every 10 seconds for about 14 hours
straight every week day.
Jon Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the
cold room sounds; for
early Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the
Selectric operator's console.
I/O Selectrics are rare, expensive and unreliable.
They are all mechanical and
stood up remarkably well to hammering away
day and night printing out the console log, considering what they are,
I would hardly think unreliable fits. 
1 Mar
1 Mar
5:22 p.m.
I'm replying to the "top level" original message just to put some
other comments in on "full immersion" emulation, without trampling
over the discussions that are going on about the sound experience.
On 1 March 2017 at 14:14, Charles Anthony via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold
room sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the Selectric
operator's console.
Don't forget what a machine room and the equipment looks like.
If one wanted to go "full immersion" it might be an idea to acquire an
HTC Vive and develop the it as a simulation VR experience. Then you
get the sights and the sounds. With the Vive (and not the Oculus Rift)
you also get the room scale VR "stuff" and hand tracking controllers.
You can add in more things than just the sounds of the terminal, you
can include mundane tasks like swapping disk packs, swapping tapes,
and using the various consoles and buttons on the devices.
Just to point out this kind of simulation of an location with "things
to do" has been done in VR. May I present to the list, for your
delectation: "New Retro Arcade: Neon" <https://youtu.be/Os7mSxvF9TU>
It's a VR recreation of an arcade.
Naturally, there's all kinds of hurdles to deal with in creating a
simulation like that. First of all VR (at present) needs beefy
computers (Do you have a high end gaming graphics card on a modern up
specced PC? No? Then no VR for you!) and the VR hardware itself isn't
cheap. Next there's the development time investment, and while the
Vive's hand controllers do let you manipulate things in the VR
envrionment they're most assuredly not what you'd want to use for
typing at a simulated keypunch, printing terminal, or video terminal.
(Though you can just use your PC's keyboard for that. And for machines
that have mice (workstations, anyone?) you can also use the mouse too;
light guns/light pens can be "done" with the hand controllers.
Then there's the topic of *cost* you could release it for free, but
there's a lot of work that has to go into the thing. Selling it for
cost well, the market is limited so you'd probably not really make
anything (I'd sure as hell buy it... if I could afford a beefy PC and
VR hardware).
And let's not get anywhere *near* the topic of including the software
to run on the simulated hardware with the program. Though, if it was a
simulator of an IBM System/370 ("Who wants to reimplement Hercules in
a game engine? No one? Smart move...") you could throw in MVS or
OS/360 since they're both in the public domain. You could provide the
software as just the "naked" simulator, with the user needing to
acquire disk/tape images on their own initiative, but now you've
reduced the number of people from outside of the already "expert"
community of us classic computer hobbyists who would be able to use
the software.
One could also make such a simulation in a regular 3D game engine and
then bolt on VR support later. That's a much larger "market" in terms
of people who could run it, though it wouldn't be nearly as immersive
as a VR experience. Though it would still be fun to try. (Look up "My
Summer Car" it's an indie game where a main is putting together and
then driving a beat up junker of a Datsun 100A.)
Anyways, I'm rambling.
Cheers,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
5 Mar
5 Mar
3:19 a.m.
On Wed, Mar 01, 2017 at 05:22:10PM -0500, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove via cctalk wrote:
Don't forget what a machine room and the equipment
looks like.
I think everyone has forgotten the most important part of the recreation.
There simply *must* be someone standing in the room to scream
DON'T TOUCH THAT
mcl
10:30 a.m.
On 2017-03-05 4:19 AM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote:
On Wed, Mar 01, 2017 at 05:22:10PM -0500, Christian
Gauger-Cosgrove via cctalk wrote:
That reminds me of a couple cases where a distracted operator operator
told someone unfamiliar with the room, that to get out they press the
button by the door, only to glance around and see the persons hand going
for the room EPO, and scream "NOT THAT BUTTON!!!!" In one case iot was
too late and the room went quiet.
Paul.
Don't forget what a machine room and the
equipment looks like.
I think everyone has forgotten the most important part of the
recreation.
There simply *must* be someone standing in the room to scream
DON'T TOUCH THAT
mcl 
3 Mar
3 Mar
3:50 a.m.
Charles,
Then you are the one that asked for the permission to use the sound of my "Golf Ball
Madness" Selectric video (shameless plug: https://youtu.be/vOIPN70f_-Id ). A) go
right ahead and B) turns out I have a high end recording studio installation at home. I
can record clean high quality samples for you, just contact me off list for exactly what
you need.
Talking about old computer sounds, for the story, you'll be happy to know that the
punched card reader sounds used in Hidden Figures are from "our" IBM 1402 at
CHM, recorded from... a cell phone.
Marc
On Mar 1, 2017, at 11:14 AM, Charles Anthony via
cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Part of the iconic mainframe experience is the cold room sounds; for early
Multics installations (and other systems) the sound of the Selectric
operator's console.
I/O Selectrics are rare, expensive and unreliable.
If some good quality audio clips of a Selectric were available, it should
be possible to jimmy up the console terminal emulator to make the sounds.
So I am fishing for any existing audio clips with clean sounds, or someone
with a Selectric that is willing to make some recordings, or a pointer to
somewhere where all of this has been done already.
-- Charles
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