3 Feb
2002
3 Feb
'02
1:50 p.m.
I'm trying to copy one RX02 disk to another on my DSD-440 dual
RX02 unit, with a 4.0 RT11XM system running on an 11/23. I first
formatted the new floppy with FORMAT/VERIFY DY1:. It ran for a little
while, and then verified for a little while. Next, I tried to do an
INIT/BAD DY1:, hoping to write a directory the new disk. It reads my RT11
disk in DY0:, and then asks if I'm sure, and then exits, without ever
accessing DY1. If I do a DIR on DY1, it complains that the directory is
missing, which makes sense since it never appeared to write it in the
first place. I did notice that there is no INIT.SAV file on the OS disk,
but I assume its an internal command if it goes as far as asking me a
question.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks,
Tom
3 Feb
3 Feb
2:44 p.m.
Tom Leffingwell wrote:
I'm trying to copy one RX02 disk to
another on my DSD-440 dual
RX02 unit, with a 4.0 RT11XM system running on an 11/23. I first
formatted the new floppy with FORMAT/VERIFY DY1:. It ran for a little
while, and then verified for a little while. Next, I tried to do an
INIT/BAD DY1:, hoping to write a directory the new disk. It reads my RT11
disk in DY0:, and then asks if I'm sure, and then exits, without ever
accessing DY1. If I do a DIR on DY1, it complains that the directory is
missing, which makes sense since it never appeared to write it in the
first place. I did notice that there is no INIT.SAV file on the OS disk,
but I assume its an internal command if it goes as far as asking me a
question.
(a) If you are going to FORMAT DY1:, then don't bother with the /VERIFY
switch - keep things simple. Note that you can't actually do a "from
scratch"
LLF (Low Level Format) FORMAT under RT-11. All that actually does is
change the density. The LLF must be mostly OK first. Also, DO NOT
confuse FORMAT on RT-11 with FORMAT on DOS/W95/W98. For a
PC, FORMAT also does the INIT plus often places SYS files and other
such stuff. In RT-11, a FORMAT basically means just the LLF, except when
it does not - like with the RX02. The DSD 440 will do a real LLF off-line
by setting a dip switch - I can't remember which one or the setting. You
turn off the power, set the dip switch and turn the power back on. The
DSD 440 does a format after which you can repeat the process - I think?
(b) The INIT command in RT-11 sets up a file structure - ONLY the file
structure - this is the optional volume name and owner in the second block
of the device (Block One) and the first EMPTY fire directory segment in
blocks 6 and 7. Note that since an empty file structure is only 13 words
long (for a beginner that is sufficient information), only block 6 is changed.
The utility used is DUP.SAV (Device Utility Program I guess). If you
want to check the floppy after that, use "DIR DY1:/BAD" which is almost
useless, so I would not bother - there are much better ways - none very
good in V4.00 of RT-11.
(c) If you are trying to produce an exact "block for block" copy of DY0:
into DY1:, then use:
COPY/DEVICE DY0: DY1:
and the file structure is ignored. A block for block copy is made. If you
have any BAD blocks on DY0: or DY1:, it probably will not work.
(d) COPY DY0: DY1: does a copy file by file (/SYS will also include
system files)
(e) After just a COPY, you must do:
COPY/BOOT DY1:RT11XM.SYS DY1:
to set up the boot programs on DY1: whereas with COPY/DEVICE, all the
blocks are copied, including the boot blocks (0,2,3,4,5).
Any other questions?
3:35 p.m.
On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Jerome Fine wrote:
(c) If you are trying to produce an exact "block
for block" copy of DY0:
into DY1:, then use:
COPY/DEVICE DY0: DY1:
and the file structure is ignored. A block for block copy is made. If you
have any BAD blocks on DY0: or DY1:, it probably will not work.
This has the same affect as init. It asks if you're sure, and no matter
what you say (y, yes), it exits without doing anything. I have to be
missing something really obvious. I also have a 5.0 RT-11SJ disk which
does the same thing.
5:18 p.m.
Tom Leffingwell wrote:
On Sun, 3 Feb
2002, Jerome Fine wrote:
(c) If you are trying to produce an exact "block for block" copy of DY0:
into DY1:, then use:
COPY/DEVICE DY0: DY1:
and the file structure is ignored. A block for block copy is made. If you
have any BAD blocks on DY0: or DY1:, it probably will not work.
This has the same
affect as init. It asks if you're sure, and no matter
what you say (y, yes), it exits without doing anything. I have to be
missing something really obvious. I also have a 5.0 RT-11SJ disk which
does the same thing.
8 p.m.
It works this way...i guess that was problem. Is the official response
something other y or yes? I suppose it could be my terminal settings.
My vt420 needs some pretty weird settings to make it work with the program
I'm running.
Thanks,
Tom
On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Jerome Fine wrote:
Although at first glance I would have said that you
have a bad DUP.SAV(same program for both commands), I can't see that happen with both
V4.00 DUP.SAV and V5.00 DUP.SAV, especially on switching from
V4.00 RT11XM to V5.00 RT11SJ.
Maybe try the /NOQUERY switch:
COPY/DEV/NOQU DY0: DY1:
also
INIT/NOQU DY1:
That way it does not ask for a response. Worth a try.
4 Feb
4 Feb
6:50 a.m.
Tom Leffingwell wrote:
It works this way...i guess that was problem. Is the
official response
something other y or yes? I suppose it could be my terminal settings.
My vt420 needs some pretty weird settings to make it work with the program
I'm running.
Thanks,
Tom
>On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Jerome Fine wrote:
> Although at first glance I would have said that you have a bad DUP.SAV
> (same program for both commands), I can't see that happen with both
> V4.00 DUP.SAV and V5.00 DUP.SAV, especially on switching from
> V4.00 RT11XM to V5.00 RT11JS.
> Maybe try the /NOQUERY switch:
> COPY/DEV/NOQU DY0: DY1:
> also
> INIT/NOQU DY1:
> That way it does not ask for a response. Worth a try.
Jerome Fine replies:
OK! Obviously the reply mechanism is the problem!
The answer MUST have the first letter as "Y", although I don't think the
other
letters are checked or does it matter if there is more than one letter - I just
don't bother.
But since the "/NOQU" switch can't always be used, it should be figured
out. If you have a VT100 you can test with, that may help to see if it is
a problem with the VT420. But at least you have narrowed it down to
the "Y" answer (lower case not allowed).
It might also be as simple as typing "<SHIFT>/Y", but that should not
be the answer. But can't hurt to try.
Any other questions?
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