13 Jul
2020
13 Jul
'20
3:12 p.m.
Anyone know the best way to get files off an AT&T 7300/3B1 computer?
This one has a lot of Perq stuff in a directory as well as hilarious
things you can do with RP06 disk platters (ah, when we were young...)
It does have an AUI Ethernet port on the back, but doesn't appear to
have TCP/IP installed. Maybe I can install TCP and find my old Synoptics
10bt to AUI adapter?
CZ
13 Jul
13 Jul
3:25 p.m.
On 7/13/20 6:12 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Anyone know the best way to get files off an AT&T
7300/3B1 computer?
This one has a lot of Perq stuff in a directory as well as hilarious
things you can do with RP06 disk platters (ah, when we were young...)
It does have an AUI Ethernet port on the back, but doesn't appear to
have TCP/IP installed. Maybe I can install TCP and find my old Synoptics
10bt to AUI adapter?
Didn't it have one serial port? Kermit"
bill
9:13 p.m.
That's.... A surprisingly good idea. I used a 7300 with uucico back in
the 80's to route mail along with my Pro/350 running Venix to Yafc and
the internet. I wonder if I can still do it.
One oddity: The system came up but was faulting out on ports tty1 and 2.
Editing /etc/inittab fixed that, but the system *does* have a two serial
port card expansion module. Wonder if the modules have to be in specific
slots or something...
C
On 7/13/2020 11:21 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM Phil Budne via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
UUCP?
Definitely a good method, especially if you don't have Kermit already.
-ethan
14 Jul
14 Jul
11:02 a.m.
One oddity: The system came up but was faulting out on
ports tty1 and 2.
Editing /etc/inittab fixed that, but the system *does* have a two serial
port card expansion module. Wonder if the modules have
to be in specific
slots or something...
The UnixPC uses geographic addressing (like an Apple II, unlike an IBM PC),
so the I/O address of the hardware (Z8530 chip) is determined by the slot.
I thought the UnixPC kernel/drivers were smart enough to automatically
detect the serial card(s) in any slot, but it's been almost thirty years
since I dealt with that, so perhaps I'm misremembering.
The built-in serial port is one port of an NEC uPD7201 (or Intel 8274) at a
fixed address, so the driver for that should always be present.
13 Jul
13 Jul
9:17 p.m.
Now that I think about it, I could probably make a tarball, use uuencode
to turn it 7 bit, then cat it, then use uudecode on a mac to turn it
back into a tarball.
Always a way to do something. Time to raid the pdp11 for some null modem
gear...
On 7/13/2020 11:21 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:12 PM Phil Budne via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
UUCP?
Definitely a good method, especially if you don't have Kermit already.
-ethan
14 Jul
14 Jul
midnight
David Gesswein's excellent MFM emulator will capture a full-fidelity image
of the disk- both flux and bits- if you want the ultimate possible archival
integrity:
https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml
Every vintage computing household needs at least one.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:39 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 7/13/20 9:12 PM, Phil Budne via cctalk wrote:
UUCP?
I'm glad that someone else said UUCP. I was thinking UUCP.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
5:35 a.m.
This gets my vote too.
Pat
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 3:00 AM Ian Finder via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
David Gesswein's excellent MFM emulator will
capture a full-fidelity image
of the disk- both flux and bits- if you want the ultimate possible archival
integrity:
https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml
Every vintage computing household needs at least one.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:39 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 7/13/20 9:12 PM, Phil Budne via cctalk wrote:
UUCP?
I'm glad that someone else said UUCP. I was thinking UUCP.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
9:48 a.m.
You might be able to use a terminal to pull/push files via the serial
port. Log in using the "install" user (password = blank/none) and work
your way to the Hardware setup window. From there find the RS232 section
and if necessary change NONE to TERMINAL. With a null modem adapter plug a
serial 9600/N/1. Worth a try.
b
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 9:01 AM Patrick Finnegan via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
This gets my vote too.
Pat
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 3:00 AM Ian Finder via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
David Gesswein's excellent MFM emulator will
capture a full-fidelity
image
of the disk- both flux and bits- if you want the
ultimate possible
archival
integrity:
https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml
Every vintage computing household needs at least one.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:39 PM Grant Taylor via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 7/13/20 9:12 PM, Phil Budne via cctalk wrote:
UUCP?
I'm glad that someone else said UUCP. I was thinking UUCP.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
16 Jul
16 Jul
7:05 p.m.
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 06:12:34PM -0400, Chris Zach wrote:
Anyone know the best way to get files off an AT&T
7300/3B1 computer? This
one has a lot of Perq stuff in a directory as well as hilarious things you
can do with RP06 disk platters (ah, when we were young...)
You may have finished by now but since I have done that reasonably recently I though I
would
document what I did/found.
Probably the best way was the serial already discussed since you can start it running and
let it run without needing to interact. I used kermit.
Copy here
http://unixpc.taronga.com/csvax/
Kermit setting I used on Linux
set line /dev/ttyUSB2
set speed 9600
set send packet-length 1000
set file names literal
SET CARRIER-WATCH OFF
kermit settings I used on 3b1
set window 3
set receive packet-length 1000
set file names literal
set file type binary
I had enabled login on the serial port and had logged in so didn't need the set line.
You have the floppy drive. The normal 3b1 format is 8 or 10 sectors but it can with the
proper software read & write DOS disks.
Later versions of the OS came with msdos command to read floppies and md_write and
md_format.
You probably want to use them to install mtools which are nicer for using msdos floppies.
Binaries in above directory.
/dev/fp021 is floppy first partition, /dev/fp020 is full disk
Also found this page on transfering files that gives another method.
https://rhodesmill.org/brandon/notes/unixpc/transfer.html
If you have a floppy or hard drive image such as from my emulator there are tools to
work with them. https://github.com/dgesswein/s4-3b1-pc7300
Since mounting was done as Linux kernel driver its going to be work to get it to build on
current Linux. I have a fedora core 20 system I keep around that the driver works with.
It does have an AUI Ethernet port on the back, but
doesn't appear to have
TCP/IP installed. Maybe I can install TCP and find my old Synoptics 10bt to
AUI adapter?
Never had access to a machine with Ethernet so can't help.
19 Jul
19 Jul
12:42 p.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
Thanks David, and everyone else for helping me with getting these files
off. Starting on Friday I hooked up a serial cable and null modem to my
laptop PC, got getty running, and logged into this 7300 as install.
Escalated to root and went over to his directory. The big problem is the
system did not have kermit but it *did* come with an XModem like program
that I could hook up to with a simple Xmodem protocol on the PC.
Uploaded Kermit, and sure enough it works...
From there it was a matter of copying the files and . files in his home
directory, then tarring and compressing the big directories. This let me
know just how far we had come: It would take 10+ minutes to compress a
6mb tar file, but when I decompressed it on my Mac Mini it would take
well under a second. We have come a long way...
After moving all the files and directories I patted the computer on the
top of the monitor and said to it "Well Done, though good and faithful
servant" then did a rm -r on the rdd directory. Now I can put it up for
sale and give the money to his mom.
Today I went over to her house with a 40 page folder of some of his
writings. Bob was among other things an amazing author, and the items on
this computer spanned his life from 1986 to about 1993. She was very
happy to see his writings and poems, in a way it gave her a chance to
get to know him again even after all these years....
Now I have a big crate with "Convergent technologies" sitting in my
truck, I'll have to figure that one out next. Also more Perq manuals and
floppy disks.
It's never a dull moment. But it's nice I was able to use my forensics
skills to bring an old friend to life again...
CZ
On 7/16/2020 10:05 PM, David Gesswein via cctech wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 06:12:34PM -0400, Chris Zach
wrote:
Anyone know the best way to get files off an
AT&T 7300/3B1 computer? This
one has a lot of Perq stuff in a directory as well as hilarious things you
can do with RP06 disk platters (ah, when we were young...)
You may have finished by now but since I have done that reasonably recently I though I
would
document what I did/found.
Probably the best way was the serial already discussed since you can start it running
and
let it run without needing to interact. I used kermit.
Copy here
http://unixpc.taronga.com/csvax/
Kermit setting I used on Linux
set line /dev/ttyUSB2
set speed 9600
set send packet-length 1000
set file names literal
SET CARRIER-WATCH OFF
kermit settings I used on 3b1
set window 3
set receive packet-length 1000
set file names literal
set file type binary
I had enabled login on the serial port and had logged in so didn't need the set
line.
You have the floppy drive. The normal 3b1 format is 8 or 10 sectors but it can with the
proper software read & write DOS disks.
Later versions of the OS came with msdos command to read floppies and md_write and
md_format.
You probably want to use them to install mtools which are nicer for using msdos
floppies.
Binaries in above directory.
/dev/fp021 is floppy first partition, /dev/fp020 is full disk
Also found this page on transfering files that gives another method.
https://rhodesmill.org/brandon/notes/unixpc/transfer.html
If you have a floppy or hard drive image such as from my emulator there are tools to
work with them. https://github.com/dgesswein/s4-3b1-pc7300
Since mounting was done as Linux kernel driver its going to be work to get it to build
on
current Linux. I have a fedora core 20 system I keep around that the driver works with.
It does have an AUI Ethernet port on the back,
but doesn't appear to have
TCP/IP installed. Maybe I can install TCP and find my old Synoptics 10bt to
AUI adapter?
Never had access to a machine with Ethernet so can't help.
20 Jul
20 Jul
1:20 a.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
On 7/19/20 12:42 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Now I have a big crate with "Convergent
technologies" sitting in my truck, I'll have to figure that one out next. Also
more Perq manuals and
floppy disks.
Probably a miniframe or mightyframe, considering the 7300 is a Convergent machine under
the ATT badge.
Could you tell if TCP/IP is installed, since it has the rare Ethernet card in it.
I don't know if 7300 TCP software is archived anywhere.
6:49 a.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
It did not seem to work and ping from the command line was not found. So
it might not be on there.
That said I picked up a bunch of manuals and one of them was on TCP for
the 7300 (red ATT manual). Maybe some floppy disks in there. I'll also
keep an eye out for loose 5.25 floppies if this is that rare (have
focused on 8 inch as they seem to be the ones for the Perqs)
C
On 7/20/2020 4:20 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 7/19/20 12:42 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Now I have a big crate with "Convergent
technologies" sitting in my
truck, I'll have to figure that one out next. Also more Perq manuals
and floppy disks.
Probably a miniframe or mightyframe, considering the 7300 is a
Convergent machine under the ATT badge.
Could you tell if TCP/IP is installed, since it has the rare Ethernet
card in it.
I don't know if 7300 TCP software is archived anywhere.
7:31 a.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
Let's see. Key floppies I have right now include:
System Software V 3.51 EIA RAM Combo board expansion disk
Tape backup Diagnostics
Tape backup system drivers
Tape backup 1.0
Telephone manager disk
Communications patch
Async Terminal Emulation disk
In the back of the owner's manual there are two disks GSS drivers, 1 and 2
And two oddballs
Encryption set version 3.51 1 of 2
Encryption set version 3.51 2 of 2
For Ethernet I have a red book with the Enhanced TCP/IP WIN/3B user's
guide and Enhanced TCP/IP Win 3B Lan Interface programmer's reference
manual. And the TCP/IP Administrator's guide. No floppies unfortunately.
On 7/20/2020 4:20 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
On 7/19/20 12:42 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Now I have a big crate with "Convergent
technologies" sitting in my
truck, I'll have to figure that one out next. Also more Perq manuals
and floppy disks.
Probably a miniframe or mightyframe, considering the 7300 is a
Convergent machine under the ATT badge.
Could you tell if TCP/IP is installed, since it has the rare Ethernet
card in it.
I don't know if 7300 TCP software is archived anywhere.
7:33 a.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
And one big binder (8.5*11) called Reference Manual which seems to have
all the theory of operation and whatnot.
C
On 7/20/2020 10:31 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Let's see. Key floppies I have right now include:
System Software V 3.51 EIA RAM Combo board expansion disk
Tape backup Diagnostics
Tape backup system drivers
Tape backup 1.0
Telephone manager disk
Communications patch
Async Terminal Emulation disk
In the back of the owner's manual there are two disks GSS drivers, 1 and 2
And two oddballs
Encryption set version 3.51 1 of 2
Encryption set version 3.51 2 of 2
For Ethernet I have a red book with the Enhanced TCP/IP WIN/3B user's
guide and Enhanced TCP/IP Win 3B Lan Interface programmer's reference
manual. And the TCP/IP Administrator's guide. No floppies unfortunately.
On 7/20/2020 4:20 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> On 7/19/20 12:42 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>
>> Now I have a big crate with "Convergent technologies" sitting in my
>> truck, I'll have to figure that one out next. Also more Perq manuals
>> and floppy disks.
>
> Probably a miniframe or mightyframe, considering the 7300 is a
> Convergent machine under the ATT badge.
>
> Could you tell if TCP/IP is installed, since it has the rare Ethernet
> card in it.
>
> I don't know if 7300 TCP software is archived anywhere.
>
>
>
>
11:58 a.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
I may be able to track down floppies for 7300 TCP, if we can confirm it is
extinct in the wild...
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 1:31 AM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 7/19/20 12:42 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Now I have a big crate with "Convergent
technologies" sitting in my
truck, I'll have to figure that one out next.
Also more Perq manuals and
floppy disks.
Probably a miniframe or mightyframe, considering the 7300 is a Convergent
machine under the ATT badge.
Could you tell if TCP/IP is installed, since it has the rare Ethernet card
in it.
I don't know if 7300 TCP software is archived anywhere.
12:43 p.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
That could be helpful. There seems to be a need for it (at least one),
and it's going to take awhile to sift thorough everything to find all
the disks.
Also I'm wondering if this system had a 70mb disk originally and was
replaced with a 40mb disk from another 7300. That could explain why the
TCP drivers are not on it, they might be on a crashed disk somewhere in
that pile of stuff.
Dig we must...
CZ
On 7/20/2020 2:58 PM, Ian Finder via cctalk wrote:
I may be able to track down floppies for 7300 TCP, if
we can confirm it is
extinct in the wild...
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 1:31 AM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> On 7/19/20 12:42 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>
>> Now I have a big crate with "Convergent technologies" sitting in my
> truck, I'll have to figure that one out next. Also more Perq manuals and
>> floppy disks.
>
> Probably a miniframe or mightyframe, considering the 7300 is a Convergent
> machine under the ATT badge.
>
> Could you tell if TCP/IP is installed, since it has the rare Ethernet card
> in it.
>
> I don't know if 7300 TCP software is archived anywhere.
>
>
>
>
>
2:12 p.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
Working on it. Question: Was the 67mb drive in a 7300/3B1 a miniscribe 6085?
C
On 7/20/2020 2:58 PM, Ian Finder via cctalk wrote:
I may be able to track down floppies for 7300 TCP, if
we can confirm it is
extinct in the wild...
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 1:31 AM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
> On 7/19/20 12:42 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
>
>> Now I have a big crate with "Convergent technologies" sitting in my
> truck, I'll have to figure that one out next. Also more Perq manuals and
>> floppy disks.
>
> Probably a miniframe or mightyframe, considering the 7300 is a Convergent
> machine under the ATT badge.
>
> Could you tell if TCP/IP is installed, since it has the rare Ethernet card
> in it.
>
> I don't know if 7300 TCP software is archived anywhere.
>
>
>
>
>
22 Jul
22 Jul
3:38 p.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 05:12:10PM -0400, Chris Zach wrote:
Working on it. Question: Was the 67mb drive in a
7300/3B1 a miniscribe 6085?
Yes it was. http://www.pdp8online.com/3b1/drive.shtml
5:22 p.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
Hm. Then I have a dillema. When I popped in the Miniscribe and tried
booting it started reading the disk then popped out a boot error.
Possibly a bad sector, but how can I read this disk to find the rest of
the data?
Hm.... Anyone got one of those Beaglebone/RPI to MFM readers I could
borrow for a bit to slurp this drive?
C
On 7/22/2020 6:38 PM, David Gesswein via cctech wrote:
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 05:12:10PM -0400, Chris Zach
wrote:
Working on it. Question: Was the 67mb drive in a
7300/3B1 a miniscribe 6085?
Yes it was. http://www.pdp8online.com/3b1/drive.shtml
3:54 p.m.
New subject: Getting files off a 7300--Mission accomplished
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:58:01AM -0700, Ian Finder wrote:
I may be able to track down floppies for 7300 TCP, if
we can confirm it is
extinct in the wild...
It may exist but is wounded.
https://archives.loomcom.com/retrocomputing/UnixPC/Install/standardized/eth…
All the 10S disks seem to have been read in a way that only got 9 sectors
per track so are no good. The ethernet_hardware_diag.dd is bad. The files
are in multiple locations on this site but any 10S image thats not 404480 is
bad.
Manual is here
https://archives.loomcom.com/retrocomputing/UnixPC/3B1_Docs/
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22 comments
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aek＠bitsavers.org -
bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
cctalk＠gtaylor.tnetconsulting.net -
cz＠alembic.crystel.com -
djg＠pdp8online.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
ian.finder＠gmail.com -
pat＠vax11.net -
phil＠ultimate.com -
spacewar＠gmail.com