29 May
2001
29 May
'01
4:40 a.m.
On Tue, 29 May 2001 09:56:17 -0400 "Jeff Hellige"
<jhellige(a)earthlink.net> writes:
The board is from Sun Remarketing and is labled as
being
manufactured by them. It is in an Apple Lisa and converts the
signals from the external parallel port to those of the MFM drive.
The converter and hard disk are mounted directly above the floppy
drive internally with a ribbon cable going out the back of the
case to the external port. I'll look at it again when I
get home and post specifics on it. Unfortunately, I don't have any
documentation on the hard disk setup.
Ah, I see. It's some whacko custom thingie. Didn't the Lisa originally
use some kind of ProFile-ish thing (custom interface, custom drive
electronix, etc.).
I've had a few of the Adaptec boards,
including one mounted in
an Atari SH-204 hard disk, converting from the ST's interface to the
MFM
drive mounted in the enclosure.
Hm, very interesting! I wonder what model they used? Like I said
before,
most of the early SCSI boards from Adaptec (and most of the other mfr's
as well at that time) were only partial SCSI implementations.
Ah, well, mebbe I stuck my foot in my mouth-- the ST did have a SCSI
interface, didn't it? Or was it yet another whacko custom thingie . .
Jeff
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29 May
29 May
10:23 a.m.
I've
had a few of the Adaptec boards, including one mounted in
an Atari SH-204 hard disk, converting from the ST's interface to the
MFM
drive mounted in the enclosure.
Hm, very interesting! I wonder what model they used? Like I said
before,
most of the early SCSI boards from Adaptec (and most of the other mfr's
as well at that time) were only partial SCSI implementations.
Ah, well, mebbe I stuck my foot in my mouth-- the ST did have a SCSI
interface, didn't it? Or was it yet another whacko custom thingie . . 
12:15 a.m.
New subject: Micom Micro600 Port Selector manual set
Micom Micro600 Port Selector manual set free
for postage to a worthy home.
John A.
30 May
30 May
6:22 p.m.
New subject: Dvorak's Guide to PC Telecommunications
{John} Dvorak's Guide to PC Telecommunications
1990 McGraw-Hill free for postage to a worthy home.
John A.
2 Jun
2 Jun
6:49 a.m.
Ah, I see. It's some whacko custom thingie.
Didn't the Lisa originally
use some kind of ProFile-ish thing (custom interface, custom drive
electronix, etc.).
I opened up my 5meg Profile hard disk finally and found that
it has a ST-506 inside of it coupled to a couple of Apple coverter
cards. Most of the case of those Profiles is taken up by the PSU.
At least that bodes well for eventually getting it running again if
the drive itself appears to be fairly normal. Without bothering the
drive geometry settings, if there are any, wouldn't any MFM drive
attached to this setup then appear to the system to be the 506?
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
7:33 a.m.
Probably not.
My experience with the Apple-specific bridge controllers is that they are set up
for a specific drive geometry in their firmware, which is Apple-specific, and
geometries other than that won't work. They don't seem to have the ability to
respond to drives that are set up on an otherwise identical, but non-Apple,
bridge board, that have a different geometry or some other unpalatable
characteristic, e.g. sector size, or some such.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2001 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: 3.5" MFM hard disk
Ah, I see.
It's some whacko custom thingie. Didn't the Lisa originally
use some kind of ProFile-ish thing (custom interface, custom drive
electronix, etc.).
I opened up my 5meg Profile hard disk finally and found that
it has a ST-506 inside of it coupled to a couple of Apple coverter
cards. Most of the case of those Profiles is taken up by the PSU.
At least that bodes well for eventually getting it running again if
the drive itself appears to be fairly normal. Without bothering the
drive geometry settings, if there are any, wouldn't any MFM drive
attached to this setup then appear to the system to be the 506?
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
8:57 a.m.
On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
Likely, but you must be sure that it has at least 4 heads and 153
cylinders. The cylinder part is no problem - probably nothing available
today would have less :) Another factor to consider is that the ST-506
did not have buffered seek IIRC. That is not likely to be a concern
either, but if you were going from a modern controller to the 506 it
might be a problem.
- don
Ah, I see.
It's some whacko custom thingie. Didn't the Lisa originally
use some kind of ProFile-ish thing (custom interface, custom drive
electronix, etc.).
I opened up my 5meg Profile hard disk finally and found that
it has a ST-506 inside of it coupled to a couple of Apple coverter
cards. Most of the case of those Profiles is taken up by the PSU.
At least that bodes well for eventually getting it running again if
the drive itself appears to be fairly normal. Without bothering the
drive geometry settings, if there are any, wouldn't any MFM drive
attached to this setup then appear to the system to be the 506? Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
9:25 a.m.
Likely, but you must be sure that it has at least 4
heads and 153
cylinders. The cylinder part is no problem - probably nothing available
today would have less :) Another factor to consider is that the ST-506
did not have buffered seek IIRC. That is not likely to be a concern
either, but if you were going from a modern controller to the 506 it
might be a problem.
What I was thinking was that I'd substitute a more readily
handy drive, such as a 225, knowing that it was larger and that most
of it's space would be wasted due to the differences in parameters,
but that there would surely be enough headroom there in the heads and
cylinders that it would hopefully work ok. I remember there being
some tolerance for running MFM drives at settings that didn't match
thier physical layout, as we had to do it on occasion when we had a
drive which didn't fit any of the 'normal' drive types in the
AMI/Phoenix/Award BIOS tables and it was before user-derfinable drive
types. Since the 506 is a full height, this might be a good
candidate to try and use my Tandon TM502 with. I also have a ST225,
which I like more than the Tandon, but I'll likely use it to replace
a faulty drive in a Z-100.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
4 Jun
4 Jun
7:05 a.m.
On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
Sounds reasonable, Jeff. That way you only 'discard' 5mb instead of 15,
and apply the ST-225 to a machine that is more likely to let you use all
of it.
- don
Likely, but you
must be sure that it has at least 4 heads and 153
cylinders. The cylinder part is no problem - probably nothing available
today would have less :) Another factor to consider is that the ST-506
did not have buffered seek IIRC. That is not likely to be a concern
either, but if you were going from a modern controller to the 506 it
might be a problem.
What I was thinking was that I'd substitute a more readily
handy drive, such as a 225, knowing that it was larger and that most
of it's space would be wasted due to the differences in parameters,
but that there would surely be enough headroom there in the heads and
cylinders that it would hopefully work ok. I remember there being
some tolerance for running MFM drives at settings that didn't match
thier physical layout, as we had to do it on occasion when we had a
drive which didn't fit any of the 'normal' drive types in the
AMI/Phoenix/Award BIOS tables and it was before user-derfinable drive
types. Since the 506 is a full height, this might be a good
candidate to try and use my Tandon TM502 with. I also have a ST225,
which I like more than the Tandon, but I'll likely use it to replace
a faulty drive in a Z-100.
Jeff --
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
8:39 a.m.
Saaay ... speaking of Z100 ... I'm just on my way to a place that has a couple
of Z100 "data separator" boards with a small aluminum brace attached. Is that
something that would be of interest?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Maslin" <donm(a)cts.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: 3.5" MFM hard disk
On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Jeff Hellige wrote:
Sounds reasonable, Jeff. That way you only 'discard' 5mb instead of 15,
and apply the ST-225 to a machine that is more likely to let you use all
of it.
- don
Likely,
but you must be sure that it has at least 4 heads and 153
cylinders. The cylinder part is no problem - probably nothing available
today would have less :) Another factor to consider is that the ST-506
did not have buffered seek IIRC. That is not likely to be a concern
either, but if you were going from a modern controller to the 506 it
might be a problem.
What I was thinking was that I'd substitute a more readily
handy drive, such as a 225, knowing that it was larger and that most
of it's space would be wasted due to the differences in parameters,
but that there would surely be enough headroom there in the heads and
cylinders that it would hopefully work ok. I remember there being
some tolerance for running MFM drives at settings that didn't match
thier physical layout, as we had to do it on occasion when we had a
drive which didn't fit any of the 'normal' drive types in the
AMI/Phoenix/Award BIOS tables and it was before user-derfinable drive
types. Since the 506 is a full height, this might be a good
candidate to try and use my Tandon TM502 with. I also have a ST225,
which I like more than the Tandon, but I'll likely use it to replace
a faulty drive in a Z-100.
Jeff --
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
11:56 a.m.
Dick,
I have a couple of Z-100s. What's a data deparator board??
Edwin
Davis, CA
At 02:39 PM 6/4/2001 -0600, you wrote:
Saaay ... speaking of Z100 ... I'm just on my way
to a place that has a
couple
of Z100 "data separator" boards with a small
aluminum brace attached. Is
that
something that would be of interest?
Dick
12:53 p.m.
I have a couple of Z-100s. What's a data
deparator board??
The circuit card that mounts on top of the hard disk, used in
conjunction with the S-100 bus hard disk controller.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
5 Jun
5 Jun
3:38 a.m.
I'm not interested in the data separator board. I don't have any HD
controllers for my Z-100.
Edwin
At 08:53 PM 6/4/2001 -0400, you wrote:
I have a
couple of Z-100s. What's a data deparator board??
The circuit card that mounts on top of the hard disk, used in
conjunction with the S-100 bus hard disk controller.
Jeff
7:44 a.m.
I'm not disappointed, since the board has lots of socketed components, and I
evaluated and paid for it on the basis of those socketed components. I'll keep
the board that Jeff didn't want in case someone needs one at some future date,
or in case there's a part on there that I have to have at midnight some Saturday
night.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edwin P. Groot" <epgroot(a)ucdavis.edu>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: 3.5" MFM hard disk
I'm not interested in the data separator
board. I don't have any HD
controllers for my Z-100.
Edwin
At 08:53 PM 6/4/2001 -0400, you wrote:
I
have a couple of Z-100s. What's a data deparator board??
The circuit card that mounts on top of the hard disk, used in
conjunction with the S-100 bus hard disk controller.
Jeff
4 Jun
4 Jun
12:51 p.m.
Saaay ... speaking of Z100 ... I'm just on my way
to a place that has a couple
of Z100 "data separator" boards with a small aluminum brace attached. Is that
something that would be of interest?
Dick
I'd be interested in one as a spare if you wouldn't mind
picking one up. I'd certainly be willing to pay you for the cost and
such.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
1:15 p.m.
New subject: Versafloppy S-100 board
Today I aquired a SD Sales Versafloppy S-100 bus floppy
controller. It's currently jumpered to use Shugart SA-800 drives and
includes the full manual with schematics (dated 2/28/78), CP/M I/O
driver source (dated 3/17/78) and a printout of the CBIOS I/O dirvers
version 1.31 for UCSD Pascal (dated 3/21/80). I'd like to eventually
put this to use with my SOL-20. Any suggestions on how best to
proceed?
Thanks
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
2:41 p.m.
New subject: Versafloppy S-100 board
You may find that the Versafloppy has an eprom with Z80 code which your 8080
won't like. If you have a Z80A board and 64K of RAM available you need only
figure out what the console for which the code in the EPROM was written would
be. I've got several SD boards, but no FDC, and I really don't know whether
these boards work or not, but I do believe that one popular configuration was
with the SD Sales VDB8024 board, to which one attaches a parallel keyboard. If
your doc's suggest that's what the EPROM supports, perhaps I can help by lending
you that board. I may even have a keyboard that is set up for the VDB8024.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 7:15 PM
Subject: Versafloppy S-100 board
Today I aquired a SD Sales Versafloppy S-100 bus
floppy
controller. It's currently jumpered to use Shugart SA-800 drives and
includes the full manual with schematics (dated 2/28/78), CP/M I/O
driver source (dated 3/17/78) and a printout of the CBIOS I/O dirvers
version 1.31 for UCSD Pascal (dated 3/21/80). I'd like to eventually
put this to use with my SOL-20. Any suggestions on how best to
proceed?
Thanks
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
9:38 p.m.
New subject: Versafloppy S-100 board
You may find that the Versafloppy has an eprom with Z80
code which your 8080
won't like. If you have a Z80A board and 64K of RAM available you need only
figure out what the console for which the code in the EPROM was written would
be. I've got several SD boards, but no FDC, and I really don't know whether
these boards work or not, but I do believe that one popular configuration was
with the SD Sales VDB8024 board, to which one attaches a parallel
keyboard. If
your doc's suggest that's what the EPROM supports, perhaps I can
help by lending
you that board. I may even have a keyboard that is set up for the VDB8024.
Actually, the board looks rather flexible, which I guess
accounts for it's name. It's jumper selectable for two different
port address ranges (63H - 67H or E3H to E7H), CPU selection (Z-80,
8080, or 8085), 5 different interrupt handling modes and 7 different
drive selection modes, including for use with CDC9404 and 9406 drives
with a special cable, as well as support for both 8" and 5-1/4"
drives. I do have another S-100 system based on a Z80 but it's built
around a North Star floppy system and I'd just as soon leave that one
as-is. It has a homebrew ROM monitor.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
5 Jun
5 Jun
2:26 a.m.
New subject: Versafloppy S-100 board
The SD Sales boards were wildly popular back in the early '80's, probably due at
least in part, to the fact they'd run with almost any other boards, with just a
minor amount of tweaking of the code. What do you know about their firmware?
Have you any doc/listing materials? I have the SBC 200 CPU and that video
board, as well as a keyboard that might have gone with the thing. All these
were given to me by a colleague who had been given it by another colleague who
had since moved on to another employer, back in the '87-'88 time frame. Had the
original owner, who was a fellow with whom I'd occasionally gone fishing, etc,
I'd have asked him some questions that I'd like to have answered now.
In any event, if you'd like to use that SBC 200, which I've never used for
anything, and the VDB 8024, I can send 'em to you, though I have never verified
that they work. I could even send a powered motherboafd, if you like, but you
know what those weigh.
regards,
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:38 AM
Subject: Re: Versafloppy S-100 board
You may find
that the Versafloppy has an eprom with Z80 code which your 8080
won't like. If you have a Z80A board and 64K of RAM available you need only
figure out what the console for which the code in the EPROM was written would
be. I've got several SD boards, but no FDC, and I really don't know whether
these boards work or not, but I do believe that one popular configuration was
with the SD Sales VDB8024 board, to which one attaches a parallel
keyboard. If
your doc's suggest that's what the EPROM supports, perhaps I can
help by lending
you that board. I may even have a keyboard that is set up for the VDB8024.
Actually, the board looks rather flexible, which I guess
accounts for it's name. It's jumper selectable for two different
port address ranges (63H - 67H or E3H to E7H), CPU selection (Z-80,
8080, or 8085), 5 different interrupt handling modes and 7 different
drive selection modes, including for use with CDC9404 and 9406 drives
with a special cable, as well as support for both 8" and 5-1/4"
drives. I do have another S-100 system based on a Z80 but it's built
around a North Star floppy system and I'd just as soon leave that one
as-is. It has a homebrew ROM monitor.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
5:14 p.m.
New subject: Apollo 725/50 in SoCal
I picked up and picked through all the Apollo 725/50 systems in the scrap
yard today, and surprizingly ended up with 5 very complete systems (4 I
brought home, and 1 I setup for another guy at the yard). Most likely I
will only keep one or two, so if you are in the SoCal area, email me before
eBay strikes. All were pretty nice, but I kept the best of the lot, at
least 64 MB ram, 1 GB drives, and weird SCSI floppies (Teac FD235HF with a
daughter card). A couple have big video cards, one has some card by Raster
Ops, and all have what I think are (3) EISA slots (those two level of
contacts things, that I think I have network cards for. The 2094A monitors
were too big and heavy for me to take any, but I suspect they will be
around a couple more weeks.
Construction quality on these is quite impressive.
4 Jun
4 Jun
2:46 p.m.
I kind-of figured that, and snagged the two of them. They've got enough logic
on them, socketed at that, to warrant the $4 each I paid for the two of them.
If you want one or both, we can make arrangements off-list, otherwise I can do
all right parting them out.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Hellige" <jhellige(a)earthlink.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: 3.5" MFM hard disk
>Saaay ... speaking of Z100 ... I'm just on my
way to a place that has a
couple
>of Z100 "data separator" boards with a
small aluminum brace attached. Is
that
something that
would be of interest?
Dick
I'd be interested in one as a spare if you wouldn't mind
picking one up. I'd certainly be willing to pay you for the cost and
such.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
8600
days inactive
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days old
20 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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allain＠panix.com -
donm＠cts.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
epgroot＠ucdavis.edu -
jeff.kaneko＠juno.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com