26 May
2009
26 May
'09
1:33 a.m.
Thanks for the info, "receptacles" got hundred of items, though few
seem to be on plates UK style and none in boxes like a UK 'metal clad'
socket, but I can cut suitable holes in a few project boxes so not
really a problem. There was a splash proof socket in a box but I don't
really want a flip up cover on a permanent installation.
Thank again.
On 26 May 2009, at 04:52, cctalk-request at classiccmp.org wrote:
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 14:59:21 -0400
From: tiggerlasv at aim.com
Subject: IBM 029 Keypunch has arrived
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Message-ID: <8CBAB820C803DA9-1424-14FD at WEBMAIL-MZ08.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
On Mon May 25, Roger Holmes wrote:
I have searched though eBay for normal US wall
sockets and to
my surprise cannot find them. I've tried all sorts of search terms
but
obviously have not hit the right combination,
unless there is some
law
which prohibits them being sold retail or
something like that.
Not too many folks out here refer to them as sockets anymore;
that term is typically reserved for light bulbs, though there is some
variation,
based on age, and geographical location.
Generally, people call them "outlets", but the NEMA terminology is
"receptacle".
Do an e-bay search on: +receptacle 20A 20 Amp (include the +
sign)
check-mark "include titles and descriptions" . . . and then sort by
price+shipping lowest first.
That should help you find what you're looking for. . .
26 May
26 May
11:58 a.m.
On Tue, 26 May 2009, Roger Holmes wrote:
Thanks for the info, "receptacles" got
hundred of items, though few
seem to be on plates UK style and none in boxes like a UK 'metal clad'
socket, but I can cut suitable holes in a few project boxes so not
really a problem. There was a splash proof socket in a box but I don't
really want a flip up cover on a permanent installation.
If you are cutting your own faceplate(s), then the "new" style
"Decora"
receptacles will be easier to mount - they have a single rectangular hole,
instead of two "double-D" holes.
1:50 p.m.
On 26 May 2009 at 11:58, Fred Cisin wrote:
If you are cutting your own faceplate(s), then the
"new" style
"Decora" receptacles will be easier to mount - they have a single
rectangular hole, instead of two "double-D" holes.
If the current draw isn't excessive, I might be tempted to purchase
an inexpensive US "power strip" with (usually) 6 positions, circuit
breaker (usually 15A), switch and heavy cord. Decapitate the cord
and attach whatever sort of connector tickles your fancy.
--Chuck
3:04 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
If the current draw isn't excessive, I might be
tempted to purchase
an inexpensive US "power strip" with (usually) 6 positions, circuit
breaker (usually 15A), switch and heavy cord. Decapitate the cord
and attach whatever sort of connector tickles your fancy.
When I traveled to London in 2003, I needed to power four different
electrical devices I was bringing from home, often simultaneously. The
devices all had autoranging or wide-range mains inputs and would run
fine on 220-240V 50Hz, but all had NEMA plugs. I knew there would be
few mains receptacles in my room, and I didn't want to buy a UK outlet
strip and four plug adapters, so I brought a US outlet strip and a
single plug adapter with me.
For anyone that does that, there are two things to be aware of:
1) Check every device you plug into the outlet strip to be certain that
it is rated for 240V.
2) Make sure the outlet strip does NOT contain any surge protection.
I found out later that a friend did something similar on his trip to
Germany, but he took a surge-protected outlet strip. As soon as he
plugged it into the mains, it blew the fuse for the power to an entire
floor of the hotel.
3:34 p.m.
On 26 May 2009 at 15:04, Eric Smith wrote:
1) Check every device you plug into the outlet strip
to be certain
that it is rated for 240V.
A little OT, but I'm curious. I'm using an IEC strip in one of my
racks--it's the kind with an internal relay hooked to an external
switch. But it's rated for 240v and I'm using it on a 120v line. It
seems to work okay, but I've been wondering if I'm courting disaster.
Anyone have an opinion?
--Chuck
7:20 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
A little OT, but I'm curious. I'm using an
IEC strip in one of my
racks--it's the kind with an internal relay hooked to an external
switch. But it's rated for 240v and I'm using it on a 120v line. It
seems to work okay, but I've been wondering if I'm courting disaster.
I don't see any reason to be especially concerned. IEC 320 receptacles
and plugs are specifically intended for both 120V and 240V
applications. Obviously you have to be sure that the equipment you plug
into it is rated for the voltage you're using, but you've already done that.
Eric
27 May
27 May
12:26 p.m.
On 26 May 2009 at 15:04, Eric Smith wrote:
I can't see why it'll do any damage, but I am suprised it works. Surely
that relay is only going to get half the coil voltage it expexts.
If there are any surge protection components, they'll be things like 275V
VDRs. They'll not clip off small spikes (say 150V ones), but they'll not
be damaged, and won't do any damage to anything else.
-tony
1) Check every device you plug into the outlet
strip to be certain
that it is rated for 240V.
A little OT, but I'm curious. I'm using an IEC strip in one of my
racks--it's the kind with an internal relay hooked to an external
switch. But it's rated for 240v and I'm using it on a 120v line. It
seems to work okay, but I've been wondering if I'm courting disaster.
12:23 p.m.
When I traveled to London in 2003, I needed to power
four different
electrical devices I was bringing from home, often simultaneously. The
devices all had autoranging or wide-range mains inputs and would run
fine on 220-240V 50Hz, but all had NEMA plugs. I knew there would be
few mains receptacles in my room, and I didn't want to buy a UK outlet
strip and four plug adapters, so I brought a US outlet strip and a
single plug adapter with me.
For anyone that does that, there are two things to be aware of:
1) Check every device you plug into the outlet strip to be certain that
it is rated for 240V.
2) Make sure the outlet strip does NOT contain any surge protection.
Indeed. Most 'surge protection' is simply a VDR rated at a little more
htan mains votlage connected across the mains. Connecting a 110V one
(probably a 130V VDR) to 240V mains is going to blow fuses at least.
I found out later that a friend did something similar on his trip to
Germany, but he took a surge-protected outlet strip. As soon as he
plugged it into the mains, it blew the fuse for the power to an entire
floor of the hotel.
Thati s much less likely to happen in the UK. UK mains plugs contain a
cartridge fuse which is designed to blow before the fuse in the main fuse
box. My experience is that even catastrophic failures (almost dead shorts
across the mains) will blow the plug fuse first.
110V AC supplies are not uncommon in the UK. The reason is that
industrial portable power tools (electric drills, etc) are 110V, and are
run from an isolating transformer with the centre-tap of the (110V)
secondary grounds. The point being that if there's an insulation failure,
the maximum voltage that can appear between some bit of metal and ground
is 55V and a shock from that is unlikely to be fatal.
The transformers are normally in bright yellow plastic boxes (yellow
being the colour associated with 110V on connectors, etc), and are rated
at about 3kVA (there are much larger ones, that's the smallest you'll
easily find). They're not cheap, but an awful lot of hacker-types will
have one.
-tony
28 May
28 May
4:58 a.m.
At 02:23 PM 5/27/2009, Tony Duell wrote:
110V AC supplies are not uncommon in the UK. The reason
is that
industrial portable power tools (electric drills, etc) are 110V, [...]
The transformers are normally in bright yellow plastic boxes (yellow
being the colour associated with 110V on connectors, etc), and are rated
at about 3kVA (there are much larger ones, that's the smallest you'll
easily find). They're not cheap, but an awful lot of hacker-types will
have one.
Interesting! I had no idea. So this is how they'll run US classic
computers?
- John
5:29 a.m.
Strange fellows those Brittans, free after Obelix. (The creator of the
Menhirs in France, see the Asterix comics)
The rest of Europe is using 42-50V AC for safety tools, and they assume 110V
DC as the highest save DC voltage.
Long live Brussels ;-)
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org
[mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] Namens John Foust
Verzonden: donderdag 28 mei 2009 13:59
Aan: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Onderwerp: Re: receptacles (was IBM 029 Keypunch has arrived)
At 02:23 PM 5/27/2009, Tony Duell wrote:
No we just put them on 230V most of the time, after of cause we changed the
jumpers ;-)
110V AC supplies are not uncommon in the UK. The
reason is that
industrial portable power tools (electric drills, etc) are
110V, [...]
The transformers are normally in bright yellow
plastic boxes (yellow
being the colour associated with 110V on connectors, etc), and are
rated at about 3kVA (there are much larger ones, that's the
smallest
you'll easily find). They're not cheap,
but an awful lot of
hacker-types will have one.
Interesting! I had no idea. So this is how they'll run US
classic computers?
- John
-Rik
8:26 a.m.
On 28/05/2009 13:29, Rik Bos wrote:
Strange fellows those Brittans
Britons :-)
free after Obelix. (The creator of the
Menhirs in France, see the Asterix comics)
The rest of Europe is using 42-50V AC for safety tools, and they assume 110V
DC as the highest save DC voltage.
Long live Brussels ;-)
It's 55V max to ground, well within the limits :-) and it's AC not DC.
An awful lot of tools are 18V/24V/36V DC cordless, of course.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
11:45 a.m.
At 02:23 PM 5/27/2009, Tony Duell wrote:
Indeed. I have a cable with a suitable plug on one end to fit the
transformer (It's normally called a 'BS4343 plug' over here after the
British Standard that refers to it , there is a CEN number, but I can't
rememebr it :-)) and a US cable-mount socket on the other. Very useful
for running US stuff.
It's not _quite_ the same as US mains. For one thing it's 50Hz, of
course. And for another it's centre-tapped to earth, not one side
earthed. But it'll run a lot of US stuff, at least for testing.
-tony
110V AC supplies are not uncommon in the UK. The
reason is that
industrial portable power tools (electric drills, etc) are 110V, [...]
The transformers are normally in bright yellow plastic boxes (yellow
being the colour associated with 110V on connectors, etc), and are rated
at about 3kVA (there are much larger ones, that's the smallest you'll
easily find). They're not cheap, but an awful lot of hacker-types will
have one.
Interesting! I had no idea. So this is how they'll run US classic
computers?
2:59 p.m.
On 28/05/2009 19:45, Tony Duell wrote:
Indeed. I have a cable with a suitable plug on one end
to fit the
transformer (It's normally called a 'BS4343 plug' over here after the
British Standard that refers to it , there is a CEN number, but I can't
rememebr it :-))
IEC 309, or more correctly (and up to date) IEC 60309 or EN 60309.
Often called "Commando" plugs though that's a trademark of a particular
manufacturer. That range covers 240V as well as 110V and covers
three-phase versions as well.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
29 May
29 May
10:48 a.m.
On 28/05/2009 19:45, Tony Duell wrote:
MK, IIRC. I've used genuine Commado plugs, and they're pretty nice...
Indeed. I have a cable with a suitable plug on
one end to fit the
transformer (It's normally called a 'BS4343 plug' over here after the
British Standard that refers to it , there is a CEN number, but I can't
rememebr it :-))
IEC 309, or more correctly (and up to date) IEC 60309 or EN 60309.
Often called "Commando" plugs though that's a trademark of a particular
manufacturer. That range covers 240V as well as 110V
and covers
three-phase versions as well.
And lower voltage versions. They're colour-coded (yellow = 110V, blue =
230V, red = 415V IIRC), and the polarising key means you can't plug one
colour (voltage) plug into another socket.
-tony
1:21 p.m.
On Friday 29 May 2009, Tony Duell wrote:
Aha. These look like they're what I've only heard referred to as "pin
and sleeve" connectors; stuff like the Hubbell HBL460P9W that IBM likes
to put on equipment. I hadn't heard of their IEC standard # before.
If they're the same connector as I'm familiar with, they're also
water-tight connectors.
For stuff that doesn't need the high-current connectors (60A or higher),
I'm much happer with NEMA twist-lock connectors (usually the L5-20,
L5-30, L6-20 or L6-30); they're a lot smaller (and lighter) and easier
to connect/disconnect. There's even a 50A 3-phase version in various
voltage (eg http://search.ebay.com/320375960704), though it's nearly
the size of the equivalent 60A IEC-60309 plug.
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
On 28/05/2009
19:45, Tony Duell wrote:
MK, IIRC. I've used genuine Commado plugs, and they're pretty nice... Indeed. I have a cable with a suitable plug on
one end to fit the
transformer (It's normally called a 'BS4343 plug' over here after
the British Standard that refers to it , there is a CEN number,
but I can't rememebr it :-))
IEC 309, or more correctly (and up to date) IEC 60309 or EN 60309.
Often called "Commando" plugs though that's a trademark of a
particular manufacturer.
That range covers 240V as well as 110V and covers
three-phase versions as well.
And lower voltage versions. They're colour-coded (yellow = 110V, blue
= 230V, red = 415V IIRC), and the polarising key means you can't plug
one colour (voltage) plug into another socket.
1:51 p.m.
On 29/05/2009 21:21, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
Aha. These look like they're what I've only
heard referred to as "pin
and sleeve" connectors; stuff like the Hubbell HBL460P9W that IBM likes
to put on equipment. I hadn't heard of their IEC standard # before.
Yes, they are the same series.
If they're the same connector as I'm familiar
with, they're also
water-tight connectors.
Only certain types are watertight.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
30 May
30 May
6:37 a.m.
Aha. ?These look like they're what I've only
heard referred to as "pin
and sleeve" connectors; stuff like the Hubbell HBL460P9W that IBM likes
to put on equipment. ?I hadn't heard of their IEC standard # before.
I am always on the lookout for these, for obvious reasons. Well, the
receptacles, anyway.
If they're the same connector as I'm familiar
with, they're also
water-tight connectors.
I actually have a few new marine grade (watertight) 480 VAC
receptacle/plug/box sets I need to sell or trade. Yes, I could use
them, put the hardware is just different enough that the set must use
the watertight boxes, and not regular boxes. I could use watertight
boxes anyway, but I do not want to have a pierside IBM installation.
--
Will
29 May
29 May
2:49 a.m.
On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 19:45 +0100, Tony Duell wrote:
I have a friend who works for an equipment hire company that deals with
touring bands, who has such a device. It's a four-way "US socket"
extension with a ceeform plug on the other end, to plug into a yellow
tranny and provide power for personal equipment that bands bring over
At 02:23 PM 5/27/2009, Tony Duell wrote:
Indeed. I have a cable with a suitable plug on one end to fit the
transformer (It's normally called a 'BS4343 plug' over here after the
British Standard that refers to it , there is a CEN number, but I can't
rememebr it :-)) and a US cable-mount socket on the other. Very useful
for running US stuff. 110V AC supplies are not uncommon in the UK. The
reason is that
industrial portable power tools (electric drills, etc) are 110V, [...]
The transformers are normally in bright yellow plastic boxes (yellow
being the colour associated with 110V on connectors, etc), and are rated
at about 3kVA (there are much larger ones, that's the smallest you'll
easily find). They're not cheap, but an awful lot of hacker-types will
have one.
Interesting! I had no idea. So this is how they'll run US classic
computers? from the US. Some people are very touchy about only
using *their*
hair-straighteners, apparently...
Gordon
27 May
27 May
12:09 p.m.
On 26 May 2009 at 11:58, Fred Cisin wrote:
I am not sure I'd trust anything cheap with mains voltages/high currents.
In my case it's my collection that's at stake (I couldn't care what
happens to me, there are plenty of good hacekrs, but not plenty of good
mahcines).
But a good-quality 'power strip' would probably be fine. Or as I
suggested earlier, get a 15A 'extension cord' (I believe that's what you
call them, over here the word 'cord' is never used for electrical
cables), cut off the plug end, and wire the cable (with the socket on it)
to the BS4343 plug to fit the power tool transformer.
As I suspected, RS (Not Radio Shack, but the company that was knwon as
'Radiospares' years ago -- http://www.rswww.com/ ) do sell US 110V
sockets, made by Hubbell. But they are _very_ expensive -- the
panel-mouting socket is nearly \pounds 20.00, the cable-mounting one is
over \pounds 25.00. If the OP can get them cheaper on E-bay or from the
States, then I'd go that route, but if not, it is a source, they will be
good quality, and I bet he spent a lot more on the 029 :-)
-tony
If you are cutting your own faceplate(s), then
the "new" style
"Decora" receptacles will be easier to mount - they have a single
rectangular hole, instead of two "double-D" holes.
If the current draw isn't excessive, I might be tempted to purchase
an inexpensive US "power strip" with (usually) 6 positions, circuit 
2 Jun
2 Jun
10:19 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2009, Roger Holmes wrote:
Yeah, I'm replying late to this, oh well...
The Decora faceplates are nice. The rectangle is a standard GFCI size,
so the same plate can be used for switches or recpeticles. Just don't
tighten the mounting screws too much. Easy to snap the thin plastic.
Been there, done that. Twice. But they still stay okay.
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
"From there to here,
From here to there,
Funny things
are everywhere."
--- Dr. Seuss
Thanks for the info, "receptacles" got
hundred of items, though few
seem to be on plates UK style and none in boxes like a UK 'metal clad'
socket, but I can cut suitable holes in a few project boxes so not
really a problem. There was a splash proof socket in a box but I don't
really want a flip up cover on a permanent installation.
If you are cutting your own faceplate(s), then the "new" style
"Decora"
receptacles will be easier to mount - they have a single rectangular hole,
instead of two "double-D" holes.
10:36 a.m.
On 2 Jun 2009 at 13:19, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Yeah, I'm replying late to this, oh well...
The Decora faceplates are nice. The rectangle is a standard GFCI size,
so the same plate can be used for switches or recpeticles. Just don't
tighten the mounting screws too much. Easy to snap the thin plastic.
Been there, done that. Twice. But they still stay okay.
If it was just a bunch of outlets that I needed, I'd be tempted to
use one of the "four in one" style outlets. No plate to worry about--
just provide a box.
--Chuck
1:39 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 2 Jun 2009 at 13:19, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Hrm? Picture anywhere?
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
"From there to here,
From here to there,
Funny things
are everywhere."
--- Dr. Seuss
Yeah, I'm replying late to this, oh well...
The Decora faceplates are nice. The rectangle is a standard GFCI size,
so the same plate can be used for switches or recpeticles. Just don't
tighten the mounting screws too much. Easy to snap the thin plastic.
Been there, done that. Twice. But they still stay okay.
If it was just a bunch of outlets that I needed, I'd be tempted to
use one of the "four in one" style outlets. No plate to worry about--
just provide a box.
2:19 p.m.
On 2 Jun 2009 at 16:39, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Hrm? Picture anywhere?
How about a product spec sheet?
http://assets.twacomm.com/assets/pdf/18756.pdf
--Chuck
3 Jun
3 Jun
8:25 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 2 Jun 2009 at 16:39, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Thanks... I'll have to pass this to my person inside Hubbell to see if
they have something like this. I like it.
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
"From there to here,
From here to there,
Funny things
are everywhere."
--- Dr. Seuss
Hrm? Picture anywhere?
How about a product spec sheet?
http://assets.twacomm.com/assets/pdf/18756.pdf
5 Jun
5 Jun
9:36 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 3 Jun 2009 at 11:25, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Here's what we found from Hubbell:
(Caution: Line wrap)
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring/section-a-ss.asp?FAM=Straight_Blade&am…
Or go to:
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/wiring/part_search.asp?SRCH=hbl415i&sType…
(search results from the Hubbell catalog)
Also:
http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/
--
--- Dave Woyciesjes
--- ICQ# 905818
--- AIM - woyciesjes
--- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - http://certification.comptia.org/
--- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - http://www.ThinkHDI.com/
"From there to here,
From here to there,
Funny things
are everywhere."
--- Dr. Seuss
Thanks... I'll have to pass this to my
person inside Hubbell to see
if
they have something like this. I like it.
There's also a shallow box offered for it that makes for a very neat
surface-mount or extension-cord type use.
--Chuck
3 Jun
3 Jun
10:58 a.m.
On Wednesday 03 June 2009, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Chuck Guzis wrote:
The Hubbell 4-plex stuff seems to be the closest thing (and was what I
pictured originally when Chuck mentioned this).
Pat
--
Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
On 2 Jun 2009 at 16:39, Dave Woyciesjes wrote:
Thanks... I'll have to pass this to my person inside Hubbell to see
if they have something like this. I like it. Hrm? Picture anywhere?
How about a product spec sheet?
http://assets.twacomm.com/assets/pdf/18756.pdf
26 May
26 May
12:28 p.m.
Thanks for the info, "receptacles" got hundred of items, though few
seem to be on plates UK style and none in boxes like a UK 'metal clad'
IIRC, the convential way that US socket outlets d ofit into a metal back
box (a bit like the flush boxes we use in the UK), and then a serparate
plastic faceplate is screwd on the the front. It's not quite like the UK
mounting.
Anyway, when I mounded up a US socket for a test cable, I did what you're
suggesting and fitted it in a normal plastic project box.
Cable mounting ('free') US sockets certainly exist and may be more useful
to you for this application. I have no idea what they're gernally called,
though.
socket, but I can cut suitable holes in a few project
boxes so not
really a problem. There was a splash proof socket in a box but I don't
really want a flip up cover on a permanent installation.
Thank again.
-tony
5684
days inactive
5694
days old
27 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
hp-fix＠xs4all.nl -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
roger.holmes＠microspot.co.uk -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com -
woyciesjes＠sbcglobal.net