2 Jun
2016
2 Jun
'16
10:02 a.m.
From: Rod Smallwood
You could if you were able to get into ODT. I have yet
to discover how
you get there.
What happens when you move the "Halt/Run/Restart" switch on the front console
to "Halt"? (Note that the "Off/Enable/Secure/Standby" switch must be
in the
"Enable" position for the H/R/R switch to be active.) That should put the
CPU in ODT.
Noel
2 Jun
2 Jun
10:16 a.m.
On 02/06/2016 18:02, Noel Chiappa wrote:
Indeed it does. I finally figured that one out last night
Needless to say all of the locations I examined came up filled with zeros.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
However I sat down this afternoon to try and work out whats going on to
stop any of
my unibus controllers being seen.
Here's what I came up with
1. The same processor KDJ11-E can be used in a Qbus or Unibus system.
2. My monitor display does not work the same way as the manual shows.
3. Although the monitor display says Unibus system.
I suspect what I have is a CPU used in a Qbus system with a hacked
monitor and boot eprom.
For whatever reason they managed to disable the unibus I/O
I think the monitor Unibus detection was never disabled because
the module never went in one.
I know there is a V2 version of the Monitor
4. I have what I believed is a working 11/83 in my computer room
5 . I'm going to try my processor in there and yes I know about PMI and
the backplane.
Does any of this mean anything to you?
Regards Rod
From: Rod
Smallwood
You could if you were able to get into ODT. I
have yet to discover how
you get there.
What happens when you move the "Halt/Run/Restart" switch on the front console
to "Halt"? (Note that the "Off/Enable/Secure/Standby" switch must be
in the
"Enable" position for the H/R/R switch to be active.) That should put the
CPU in ODT.
Noel 
3 Jun
3 Jun
8:43 a.m.
Rod Smallwood wrote:
[Snip]
4. I have what I believed is a working 11/83 in my computer room
5 . I'm going to try my processor in there and yes I know about PMI
and the backplane.
Just a bit of information from what I seem to remember - I hope
the information is correct.
The M8190-BF board I have supports:
(a) PMI memory placed ABOVE the CPU
(b) Non-PMI memory placed BELOW the CPU (I never
attempted to place non-PMI memory ABOVE the
CPU)
(c) When the PMI memory was placed into the backplane
BELOW the CPU, then the memory would act as
normal non-PMI memory.
Under RT-11, the command:
SHOW CONFIG
will conclude that the following CPU is present:
(a) PDP-11/83
(b) PDP-11/73
(c) PDP-11/73
So other than when PMI memory is placed BELOW the CPU
as in (c) and it therefore takes longer to access the memory, I don't
think the question of PMI memory will really make any difference.
Jerome Fine
8:58 a.m.
On 03/06/2016 16:43, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
Hi its a KDJ11-B all memory on CPU board
Rod
Rod Smallwood
wrote:
[Snip]
4. I have what I believed is a working 11/83 in my computer room
5 . I'm going to try my processor in there and yes I know about PMI
and the backplane.
Just a bit of information from what I seem to remember - I hope
the information is correct.
The M8190-BF board I have supports:
(a) PMI memory placed ABOVE the CPU
(b) Non-PMI memory placed BELOW the CPU (I never
attempted to place non-PMI memory ABOVE the
CPU)
(c) When the PMI memory was placed into the backplane
BELOW the CPU, then the memory would act as
normal non-PMI memory.
Under RT-11, the command:
SHOW CONFIG
will conclude that the following CPU is present:
(a) PDP-11/83
(b) PDP-11/73
(c) PDP-11/73
So other than when PMI memory is placed BELOW the CPU
as in (c) and it therefore takes longer to access the memory, I don't
think the question of PMI memory will really make any difference.
Jerome Fine
9:11 a.m.
Rod Smallwood wrote:
> >On 03/06/2016 16:43, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>
>> Rod Smallwood wrote:
>>
>>> [Snip]
>>>
>>> 4. I have what I believed is a working 11/83 in my computer room
>>>
>>> 5 . I'm going to try my processor in there and yes I know about PMI
>>> and the backplane.
>>
>>
>> Just a bit of information from what I seem to remember - I hope
>> the information is correct.
>>
>> The M8190-BF board I have supports:
>> (a) PMI memory placed ABOVE the CPU
>> (b) Non-PMI memory placed BELOW the CPU (I never
>> attempted to place non-PMI memory ABOVE the
>> CPU)
>> (c) When the PMI memory was placed into the backplane
>> BELOW the CPU, then the memory would act as
>> normal non-PMI memory.
>>
>> Under RT-11, the command:
>>
>> SHOW CONFIG
>>
>> will conclude that the following CPU is present:
>>
>> (a) PDP-11/83
>> (b) PDP-11/73
>> (c) PDP-11/73
>>
>> So other than when PMI memory is placed BELOW the CPU
>> as in (c) and it therefore takes longer to access the memory, I don't
>> think the question of PMI memory will really make any difference.
>>
>> Jerome Fine
>
> Hi its a KDJ11-B all memory on CPU board
>
> Rod
I am very confused. Is your mention of memory on the CPU board
for the PDP-11/83 or the PDP-11/93? I thought that the PDP-11/83
never had memory on the CPU board (assuming that the cache is not
regarded as memory).
This aspect of the thread is probably no longer relevant, I just wanted
to note that PMI memory can be used with what most individuals would
consider to be a PDP-11/73 (naturally a quad) board and the PMI
aspect of the memory will be activated when the PMI memory is
installed ABOVE the CPU board.
Also when PMI memory is installed BELOW the backplane, it is then
used as normal Qbus memory in a Qbus system. I can't see anyone
doing that, but it is allowed.
Jerome Fine
10:51 a.m.
On 6/3/2016 9:11 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
<snip>
I suspect it is using this board.
M7554-02-KDJ11-DB-WITH-1-5MB-MEMORY-ON-BOARD-USED
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161791207076
I am guessing the 1.5mb isn't cache, but is system memory on this board.
There is also the KDJ11-BF which has no memory on board. M8190-AE.
thanks
Jim
Rod Smallwood
wrote:
> >On 03/06/2016 16:43, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>
> Hi its a
KDJ11-B all memory on CPU board
Rod
I am very confused. Is your mention of memory on the CPU board
for the PDP-11/83 or the PDP-11/93? I thought that the PDP-11/83
never had memory on the CPU board (assuming that the cache is not
regarded as memory).
This aspect of the thread is probably no longer relevant, I just wanted
to note that PMI memory can be used with what most individuals would
consider to be a PDP-11/73 (naturally a quad) board and the PMI
aspect of the memory will be activated when the PMI memory is
installed ABOVE the CPU board.
Also when PMI memory is installed BELOW the backplane, it is then
used as normal Qbus memory in a Qbus system. I can't see anyone
doing that, but it is allowed.
Jerome Fine
11:27 a.m.
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
From: jwsmobile
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 7:51 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-11/94-E
On 6/3/2016 9:11 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
<snip>
I suspect it is using this board.
M7554-02-KDJ11-DB-WITH-1-5MB-MEMORY-ON-BOARD-USED
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161791207076
I am guessing the 1.5mb isn't cache, but is system memory on this board.
There is also the KDJ11-BF which has no memory on board. M8190-AE.
thanks
Jim
----
Nope, the M7554 is the PDP-11/53 CPU.
The 11/83 had its memory on the bus (either left or right of the module).
The 11/94 did NOT have memory on the bus, because *all* memory is
on the CPU module itself. Note that there are two versions of the 11/94.
One with 2 MB RAM and one with 4 MB RAM (all that can be addressed!).
The 2 MB version and the 4 MB version are identical, just half the RAM chip
population is not placed. However, all through-hole pins are soldered so
the upgrade from 2 MB to 4 MB would be a real PITA, *if* you'd try it at all!
- Henk
Rod Smallwood
wrote:
> >On 03/06/2016 16:43, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>
> Hi its a
KDJ11-B all memory on CPU board
Rod
I am very confused. Is your mention of memory on the CPU board
for the PDP-11/83 or the PDP-11/93? I thought that the PDP-11/83
never had memory on the CPU board (assuming that the cache is not
regarded as memory).
This aspect of the thread is probably no longer relevant, I just wanted
to note that PMI memory can be used with what most individuals would
consider to be a PDP-11/73 (naturally a quad) board and the PMI
aspect of the memory will be activated when the PMI memory is
installed ABOVE the CPU board.
Also when PMI memory is installed BELOW the backplane, it is then
used as normal Qbus memory in a Qbus system. I can't see anyone
doing that, but it is allowed.
Jerome Fine
4:57 p.m.
On 03/06/2016 19:27, Henk Gooijen wrote:
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- From: jwsmobile Sent:
Friday, June
03, 2016 7:51 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-11/94-E
On 6/3/2016 9:11 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
<snip>
I suspect it is using this board.
M7554-02-KDJ11-DB-WITH-1-5MB-MEMORY-ON-BOARD-USED
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161791207076
I am guessing the 1.5mb isn't cache, but is system memory on this board.
There is also the KDJ11-BF which has no memory on board. M8190-AE.
thanks
Jim
----
Nope, the M7554 is the PDP-11/53 CPU.
The 11/83 had its memory on the bus (either left or right of the module).
The 11/94 did NOT have memory on the bus, because *all* memory is
on the CPU module itself. Note that there are two versions of the 11/94.
One with 2 MB RAM and one with 4 MB RAM (all that can be addressed!).
The 2 MB version and the 4 MB version are identical, just half the RAM
chip
population is not placed. However, all through-hole pins are soldered so
the upgrade from 2 MB to 4 MB would be a real PITA, *if* you'd try it
at all!
- Henk
Hi
I concur.
1. All my comments all relate to the KJD11-E M8981-BA CPU
BOARD
2. Everything is on*_one _*board
3 18Mhz Processor, 4Mb memory, six serial lines, console
port, monitor prom, boot proms etc.
4. In an 11/94-E the Qbus section contains this one CPU
board and a small power (M9714) sense board.
There are no other QBus boards of any sort or kind in
this section.
Third slot is empty and then next is the UBA (Q to
Unibus adapter)
From there on its all Unibus
5. See
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/dec/pdp11/1194/EK-PDP94-MG-001_Sep90…
So back to the job in hand. I had had for some time an 11/94 chassis
with every thing bar the CPU.
The KJD11-E M8981-BA. I recently managed to obtain one of these boards.
You would think my problems were over. No so sad to say. We need to
take into account these boards can
also be used in Qbus only systems.
So I installed the board in the 11/94 chassis and connected to the
cables already there. Two cables go off to the
serial I/O panel at the back of the system carrying the six serial
lines, console line and the startup two digit diagnostic
display. There's also a dip switch to set console parameters. Another
smaller cable goes off to the front panel to repeat the startup two
digit diagnostic display.
SFSG... Reading the manual for both the CPU card and the 11/94-E system
I found that in the Qbus section
Is just the CPU and a power sensing board ( M9714).
Next comes the UBA and then UNIBUS slots. I installed a MX211 RX02
UNIBUS controller in the first slot.
Pulled the NPR jumper from underneath (as required for the MX211) and
filled the next three slots with grant cards.
Grant card is G7273 in C/D correct?
The final slot contains a UNIBUS termination card and a Minimum Load
card as per manual.
OK so turn on the system. Numeric Display counts down from 77 to 04.
Look up code 04. Normal operation processor is fetching and executing
instructions.
Look at console screen starts off ok then differs from manual.
I cannot get system to talk to UNIBUS Controllers
Rod
Rod
Smallwood wrote:
> >On 03/06/2016 16:43, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>
> Hi its a
KDJ11-B all memory on CPU board
Rod
I am very confused. Is your mention of memory on the CPU board
for the PDP-11/83 or the PDP-11/93? I thought that the PDP-11/83
never had memory on the CPU board (assuming that the cache is not
regarded as memory).
This aspect of the thread is probably no longer relevant, I just wanted
to note that PMI memory can be used with what most individuals would
consider to be a PDP-11/73 (naturally a quad) board and the PMI
aspect of the memory will be activated when the PMI memory is
installed ABOVE the CPU board.
Also when PMI memory is installed BELOW the backplane, it is then
used as normal Qbus memory in a Qbus system. I can't see anyone
doing that, but it is allowed.
Jerome Fine
7:59 p.m.
Henk Gooijen wrote:
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- From: jwsmobile Sent:
Friday, June
03, 2016 7:51 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDP-11/94-E
On 6/3/2016 9:11 AM, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
<snip>
I suspect it is using this board.
M7554-02-KDJ11-DB-WITH-1-5MB-MEMORY-ON-BOARD-USED
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161791207076
I am guessing the 1.5mb isn't cache, but is system memory on this board.
There is also the KDJ11-BF which has no memory on board. M8190-AE.
thanks
Jim
----
Nope, the M7554 is the PDP-11/53 CPU.
The 11/83 had its memory on the bus (either left or right of the module).
The 11/94 did NOT have memory on the bus, because *all* memory is
on the CPU module itself. Note that there are two versions of the 11/94.
One with 2 MB RAM and one with 4 MB RAM (all that can be addressed!).
The 2 MB version and the 4 MB version are identical, just half the RAM
chip
population is not placed. However, all through-hole pins are soldered so
the upgrade from 2 MB to 4 MB would be a real PITA, *if* you'd try it
at all!
- Henk
Thank you for the clarification. I knew that the PDP-11/53 held on board
memory, but I just could not remember that the last two digits were "53".
One other minor clarification that probably most remember, but maybe a few
individuals don't. The CPU boards for both the PDP-11/83 and the PDP-11/93
are almost always used in Qbus only systems. In very rare situations, a
Qnivertor
may also be present to support using the system with Unibus hardware,
but that
situation would be unusual.
The PDP-11/84 and PDP-11/94 use the identical CPU boards, but are
configured to include a Qnivertor (as Rod Smallwood mentions in another
post) and would rarely include any Qbus boards. In addition, for the
PDP-11/84, the PMI memory is different from the memory used in the
PDP-11/83 and there are probably no free Qbus slots for any additional
Qbus boards. For the PDP-11/94, there seems to be a couple of free slots
still available, but since they are not normal Qbus slots (they are
specifically
designed for the PMI memory used in the PDP-11/84 after all), standard
Qbus boards may not work correctly.
I just wanted to mention those aspects for PDP-11/83, PDP-11/93,
PDP-11/84 and PDP-11/94 users.
Please mention if I have made any mistakes in my description.
Jerome Fine
Rod
Smallwood wrote:
> >On 03/06/2016 16:43, Jerome H. Fine wrote:
>
> Hi its a
KDJ11-B all memory on CPU board
Rod
I am very confused. Is your mention of memory on the CPU board
for the PDP-11/83 or the PDP-11/93? I thought that the PDP-11/83
never had memory on the CPU board (assuming that the cache is not
regarded as memory).
This aspect of the thread is probably no longer relevant, I just wanted
to note that PMI memory can be used with what most individuals would
consider to be a PDP-11/73 (naturally a quad) board and the PMI
aspect of the memory will be activated when the PMI memory is
installed ABOVE the CPU board.
Also when PMI memory is installed BELOW the backplane, it is then
used as normal Qbus memory in a Qbus system. I can't see anyone
doing that, but it is allowed.
Jerome Fine
8:40 p.m.
On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Jerome H. Fine <jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
In addition, for the PDP-11/84, the PMI memory is different from the memory used in the
PDP-11/83
The MSV11-JD and MSV11-JE are documented as being compatible with both
the PDP-11/84 and Q-bus systems. The documented restriction is that
the MSV11-JB and MSV11-JC are only compatible with PDP-11/84 systems
and incompatible with Q-bus systems.
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/oemMicronotes.pdf
uNote # 028
MSV11-Q/M/J MEMORY COMPARISONS
MSV11-J
-------
The MSV11-J has four versions, the MSV11-JB and the MSV11-JC which are
used in the PDP-11/84 UNIBUS systems and the MSV11-JD and the MSV11-JE
are used in either the MicroPDP-11/83 Q-bus systems, or the PDP-11/84
UNIBUS systems. All four modules use ECC memory for error correction,
as well as using 256K bit MOS RAM parts on either a half for fully
populated quad size module.
NOTE:
-----
NONE OF THE FOUR MSV11-J MODULES CAN BE PLACED IN A Q/Q BACKPLANE
SLOT. IF THIS IS ATTEMPTED PERMANENT DAMAGE WILL BE DONE TO THE BOARDS
AND TO THE SYSTEM.
The MSV11-JB (M8637-BA) is a half populated quad size PMI memory
module containing 1MB of memory. The second version of the MSV11-J is
the MSV11-JC (M8637-CA), this is a fully populated MSV11-JB quad size
PMI memory module containing 2MB of memory. These two module can not
be used in a Q-bus system due to gate array incompatibilities, and can
only be used in the PDP-11/84 systems which use the UNIBUS/PMI bus
interface (KTJ11-A). The third version of the MSV11-J is the MSV11-JD
(M8637-DA) which is a half populated quad size PMI memory module
containing 1MB of memory. The last version of the MSV11 J is the
MSV11-JE, (M8637-EA) which is a fully populated MSV11-JD quad size PMI
memory module containing 2MB of memory. These last two modules can be
used with either the MicroPDP-11/83 system which uses the Q-bus/PMI
bus interface or the PDP-11/84 system which was mentioned above.
Although the MSV11-JD and MSV11-JE are PMI memories they can be used
in two other Q-bus configurations.
(more details follow...)
4 Jun
4 Jun
1:41 a.m.
On 04/06/2016 04:40, Glen Slick wrote:
On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 7:59 PM, Jerome H. Fine
<jhfinedp3k at compsys.to> wrote:
I have a M8637-EH its marked 2MB Q P-BUS MOS MEM.
I intend to remove the problematical KDJ11-E from the /94 (hybrid)
chassis and replace it with a KDJ11-B and the M8637-EH to see if I can
then get the UNIBUS controllers running.
Rod
In addition, for the PDP-11/84, the PMI memory is
different from the memory used in the PDP-11/83
The MSV11-JD and MSV11-JE are documented as being compatible with both
the PDP-11/84 and Q-bus systems. The documented restriction is that
the MSV11-JB and MSV11-JC are only compatible with PDP-11/84 systems
and incompatible with Q-bus systems.
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/oemMicronotes.pdf
uNote # 028
MSV11-Q/M/J MEMORY COMPARISONS
MSV11-J
-------
The MSV11-J has four versions, the MSV11-JB and the MSV11-JC which are
used in the PDP-11/84 UNIBUS systems and the MSV11-JD and the MSV11-JE
are used in either the MicroPDP-11/83 Q-bus systems, or the PDP-11/84
UNIBUS systems. All four modules use ECC memory for error correction,
as well as using 256K bit MOS RAM parts on either a half for fully
populated quad size module.
NOTE:
-----
NONE OF THE FOUR MSV11-J MODULES CAN BE PLACED IN A Q/Q BACKPLANE
SLOT. IF THIS IS ATTEMPTED PERMANENT DAMAGE WILL BE DONE TO THE BOARDS
AND TO THE SYSTEM.
The MSV11-JB (M8637-BA) is a half populated quad size PMI memory
module containing 1MB of memory. The second version of the MSV11-J is
the MSV11-JC (M8637-CA), this is a fully populated MSV11-JB quad size
PMI memory module containing 2MB of memory. These two module can not
be used in a Q-bus system due to gate array incompatibilities, and can
only be used in the PDP-11/84 systems which use the UNIBUS/PMI bus
interface (KTJ11-A). The third version of the MSV11-J is the MSV11-JD
(M8637-DA) which is a half populated quad size PMI memory module
containing 1MB of memory. The last version of the MSV11 J is the
MSV11-JE, (M8637-EA) which is a fully populated MSV11-JD quad size PMI
memory module containing 2MB of memory. These last two modules can be
used with either the MicroPDP-11/83 system which uses the Q-bus/PMI
bus interface or the PDP-11/84 system which was mentioned above.
Although the MSV11-JD and MSV11-JE are PMI memories they can be used
in two other Q-bus configurations.
(more details follow...)
2906
days inactive
2908
days old
10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
henk.gooijen＠hotmail.com -
jhfinedp3k＠compsys.to -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
jws＠jwsss.com -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com