11 Mar
2020
11 Mar
'20
8:41 a.m.
I'm reposting this announcement from Jim Wilcoxson.
De
####
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <0c560b91-35d2-4dcc-b859-a8eb4d22bd17 at googlegroups.com>
Subject: Prime emulator source released on GitHub
From: Jim Wilcoxson <prirun at gmail.com>
Today, with much help from Dennis Boone, I'm releasing the Prime
emulator source code on GitHub for non-commercial use. This is the full
version of the emulator running on Linux and supports:
- all Prime CPU modes: 16S, 32S, 32R, 64R, 64V, 32I
- all Prime models, from the P400 to P6550
- up to 512MB of memory, depending on the Primos rev and CPU
- a system console
- 128 incoming telnet terminal connections
- 8 disk controllers, 8 drives each
- support for all 25 disk drives sold by Prime
- a tape controller, 4 drives, using the .TAP format
- a PNC controller emulating RingNet over TCP/IP
- a bypass for Primos system serial number checks
- Unix utilities to read/write physical tapes & Magsav tapes
Dennis owns the emulator GitHub repo and has also kindly agreed to take
over hosting of the public Prime emulators that have been online since
2008. There are 7 public emulators running in a virtual Prime ring,
allowing both remote terminal sessions (netlink) and remote disk access
via PrimeNet. The Prime emulator on Linux is currently running 45-55
Prime MIPS in 64V mode.
A wide range of Prime software is loaded on the public emulators:
- ftn screaming fast Prime Fortran 66 compiler, written in assembler
- f77 the not-so-screaming but full-featured Fortran '77
- pl1g the PL/I Subset G compiler
- pl1 the full PL/I compiler
- plp the original Prime systems language (like PL/I)
- spl the 2nd generation Prime systems language
- cc the C compiler written by Garth Conby of Pacer Software
- pascal the Pascal compiler
- modula Wirth's successor to Pascal
- dbg Prime's source level debugger rivaling modern debuggers
- pma the Prime assembler
- basicv the Prime BASIC compiler
- cobol the original Prime COBOL compiler
- cbl the Prime COBOL '74 compiler
- emacs the full screen editor still used by many today (me!)
- midas the Prime indexed sequential file software
This week we are working on releasing Prime disk images for all of the
public emulators to make it easy for others to get their own Prime up
and running. For the truly adventurous who want to bootstrap their own
Prime system, there are links in the emulator readme to Prime tape
images at Bitsavers and to a large library of Prime manuals.
I learned more about operating systems, compilers, concurrency, and
other systems programming topics by reading Prime source code, making
changes to Primos, and fiddling with Prime hardware, than I did from all
of my college degree work. I loved Prime computers, Prime software,
Prime hardware, and the Prime Computer company, and am grateful to all
of the former Prime engineers that provided this robust and interesting
hardware and software platform.
I hope you enjoy it too! https://github.com/prirun
Jim
11 Mar
11 Mar
12:10 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 11:41:22AM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
I'm reposting this announcement from Jim
Wilcoxson.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Prime emulator source released on GitHub
From: Jim Wilcoxson <prirun at gmail.com>
Today, with much help from Dennis Boone, I'm releasing the Prime
emulator source code on GitHub for non-commercial use.
This is exciting news. I've been curious about Primes ever since I first
heard of the emulator. I took the publicly accessible systems for a spin
way back then, but have forgotten what I learned.
I was an IBM z/OS operator for a couple of decades. The system operation
side is what interests me most. I've been hoping that the emulator and
PRIMOS would be released to hobbyists some day.
I've downloaded and built the emulator, and grabbed the available tape
images and documentation, but I have no idea where to go from there. I'm
looking forward to any future information, disk image releases, etc. I've
already skimmed through a bit of the operations guide. I might be able to
figure out how to install PRIMOS from tapes with the help of the Admin
Guide(s). Info on configuring the emulator, creating disk images, etc.,
would be helpful. I did find emulator command examples in em.c. I
anticipate some sleep deprivation in the near future. I've been known to
loose track of time exploring new to me older systems.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
12 Mar
12 Mar
7:23 a.m.
A set of sample system images derived from the public emulators can be
downloaded from https://yagi.h-net.org/p50em_samplemachines.tar.gz to
get you started. The tarball is 309078820 bytes, and its sha256sum is
8fe261f7a9f19e9fab2814371387f9cef5c64161fe7cf4bdc542144202678ca9. We
may rebuild these later and distribute them individually in a more
formal fashion.
De
11:50 a.m.
All I can say is Wow!!
I have wanted to see this for quite some time. It took no
time at all to build the emulator and I fired it up with
Rev 19.2 which was the one I had the most experience with
in the past. Came up very nicely.
Really sorry I got rid of all that Prime documentation. :-(
Luckily I did keep all my Pocket References so I am not
completely out of the picture.
Now the questions start...
OK, just one for now. When I started up the emulator it
ended with the Supervisor on the console. So, how do I
login a regular user? Does the emulator come up with
an open port that I can telnet into to get a regular
serial line?
I can't wait to play with all the compilers I used to use.
One more question, I guess.
Is there any likelihood that any of the third party software
like EDV or any of the Salford or Shefield packages still
exist in someone's storage unit? I wonder if there are any
chances people like Minitab or SPSS could be convinced to
let the old Prime versions of their software loose?
bill
12:07 p.m.
Bill,
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 02:50:46PM -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
So, how do I login a regular user? Does the emulator
come up with an
open port that I can telnet into to get a regular serial line?
Use the emulator -tport command line option to set its incoming terminals
port.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
12:25 p.m.
> So, how do I login a regular user? Does the
emulator come up with
> an open port that I can telnet into to get a regular serial line?
Use the emulator -tport command line option to set its
incoming
terminals port.
Bill,
The inittab snippet from Jim's message that I reposted here shows you
how the runem script expectes to be invoked, and run shows you the
various options used to run the public emulators.
De
13 Mar
13 Mar
6:35 a.m.
Great news. I look forward to trying it out. Other than compilers, is there
much else to run on Prime at the moment? Do any applications still exist to
try and run? Is Prime Information (apparently the platform's "killer app")
available? Are there any games? Was there the equivalent of a DECUS or
Usenix through which freeware speed across the community?
On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 11:41 AM Dennis Boone via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I'm reposting this announcement from Jim
Wilcoxson.
De
####
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2020 08:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <0c560b91-35d2-4dcc-b859-a8eb4d22bd17 at googlegroups.com>
Subject: Prime emulator source released on GitHub
From: Jim Wilcoxson <prirun at gmail.com>
Today, with much help from Dennis Boone, I'm releasing the Prime
emulator source code on GitHub for non-commercial use. This is the full
version of the emulator running on Linux and supports:
- all Prime CPU modes: 16S, 32S, 32R, 64R, 64V, 32I
- all Prime models, from the P400 to P6550
- up to 512MB of memory, depending on the Primos rev and CPU
- a system console
- 128 incoming telnet terminal connections
- 8 disk controllers, 8 drives each
- support for all 25 disk drives sold by Prime
- a tape controller, 4 drives, using the .TAP format
- a PNC controller emulating RingNet over TCP/IP
- a bypass for Primos system serial number checks
- Unix utilities to read/write physical tapes & Magsav tapes
Dennis owns the emulator GitHub repo and has also kindly agreed to take
over hosting of the public Prime emulators that have been online since
2008. There are 7 public emulators running in a virtual Prime ring,
allowing both remote terminal sessions (netlink) and remote disk access
via PrimeNet. The Prime emulator on Linux is currently running 45-55
Prime MIPS in 64V mode.
A wide range of Prime software is loaded on the public emulators:
- ftn screaming fast Prime Fortran 66 compiler, written in assembler
- f77 the not-so-screaming but full-featured Fortran '77
- pl1g the PL/I Subset G compiler
- pl1 the full PL/I compiler
- plp the original Prime systems language (like PL/I)
- spl the 2nd generation Prime systems language
- cc the C compiler written by Garth Conby of Pacer Software
- pascal the Pascal compiler
- modula Wirth's successor to Pascal
- dbg Prime's source level debugger rivaling modern debuggers
- pma the Prime assembler
- basicv the Prime BASIC compiler
- cobol the original Prime COBOL compiler
- cbl the Prime COBOL '74 compiler
- emacs the full screen editor still used by many today (me!)
- midas the Prime indexed sequential file software
This week we are working on releasing Prime disk images for all of the
public emulators to make it easy for others to get their own Prime up
and running. For the truly adventurous who want to bootstrap their own
Prime system, there are links in the emulator readme to Prime tape
images at Bitsavers and to a large library of Prime manuals.
I learned more about operating systems, compilers, concurrency, and
other systems programming topics by reading Prime source code, making
changes to Primos, and fiddling with Prime hardware, than I did from all
of my college degree work. I loved Prime computers, Prime software,
Prime hardware, and the Prime Computer company, and am grateful to all
of the former Prime engineers that provided this robust and interesting
hardware and software platform.
I hope you enjoy it too! https://github.com/prirun
Jim
8:36 a.m.
Great news. I look forward to trying it out. Other
than compilers, is
there much else to run on Prime at the moment? Do any applications
still exist to try and run? Is Prime Information (apparently the
platform's "killer app") available? Are there any games? Was there
the equivalent of a DECUS or Usenix through which freeware speed
across the community?
Michael,
The US national user group was NPUG. There were regional and maybe
local sub-groups. The software library, PULSE, was Prime-supported.
I'm not aware of many applications in captivity. In particular, I'm not
aware of any of the CAD/CAM or office automation software. The former
would of course be hard to run without the relevant graphics terminals,
and emulation of their connecting controllers.
There's a fair amount of material that we don't have packaged up for
download yet, including one or two versions of INFORMATION, some text
games, and most of a PULSE library from the Rev 17? era. The Georgia
Tech Software Tools environment is available. There are several full
screen editors, including Emacs and the Sheffield editor. We have the
indexed file handler, but not the DBMS. I've never seen the SyncSort,
Oracle or SPSS (and SAS?) packages, though they existed.
There's some chance of recovering some utility things like serial file
transfer software like x/y/z-modem, and maybe at least the host side of
one of the more integrated PC-to-Prime integration packages.
We're hoping the availability of the emulator will bring more things to
light, including software and documentation.
De
16 Mar
16 Mar
11:01 a.m.
Dennis,
On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:36:44AM -0400, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
There's a fair amount of material that we
don't have packaged up for
download yet, including one or two versions of INFORMATION, some text
games, and most of a PULSE library from the Rev 17? era. The Georgia Tech
Software Tools environment is available. There are several full screen
editors, including Emacs and the Sheffield editor. We have the indexed
file handler, but not the DBMS.
It sounds like we have a lot to look forward to. I have a fondness for
databases, and full screen text based data entry apps, so INFORMATION and
the forms management system sound particularly interesting to me.
I've read through a bit of the FORMS users guide. I only found FORMS
installed on the Rev 19 sample system so far, but haven't checked all the
systems yet. I haven't tried to do anything with FORMS aside from listing
existing forms. There weren't any.
The only info I could find on INFORMATION was its product bulletin. Was it
The Prisoner's title sequence where a voice kept repeating INFORMATION ...
INFORMATION? For some reason that came to mind. I need to get around to
watching that series. I've only seen a bit of the first episode.
--
Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX
What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
11:29 a.m.
I realize I told a lie the other day. INFORMATION is actually installed
on the rev21 public emulator, and the samples. A few manuals are
online. I feel like I've seen one or two more that I can't find just
now. I haven't gotten these integrated into sysovl.info yet:
http://yagi.h-net.org/prime_manuals/pdr3905_inform_refgde_1981.pdf
http://yagi.h-net.org/prime_manuals/pdr3906_perform_refgde_1980.pdf
http://yagi.h-net.org/prime_manuals/prirun_scans/Prime%20Information%20Upda…
You can think of MIDASPLUS as similar to ISAM. A _lot_ of shops used
it. The application I supported really should have been on a real
database, as we had cross-file relations, but that was "too slow" and
"too expensive", so it was on MIDASPLUS, and we suffered through the
inevitable partial updates. MIDASPLUS was preceded by MIDAS, which was
preceded by KIDA. KIDA was originally part of the base os. MIDAS
stands for "multiple index data access system", iirc.
I _think_ the distributed systems management stuff (DSM) may have
internally used FORMS, so you might grovel through those bits on the
rev23 machine.
I saw a few episodes of The Prisoner many years ago, but don't remember
the title sequence.
De
18 Mar
18 Mar
4:51 p.m.
I've uploaded an updated set of sample system images. Jim worked
through rebuilding the disk files with more filesystem and paging space,
and we enhanced the run script wrapper a bit. There are also a couple
of help text tweaks, system startup fixes, etc.
The tarball is 142882727 bytes, and its sha256sum is
32647dbcc3a0d541209eafc2f78d054e456d58046c9b3c5bc4ca64a8d9fc0037.
De
24 Mar
24 Mar
7:54 a.m.
On 3/18/20 7:51 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
I've uploaded an updated set of sample system
images. Jim worked
through rebuilding the disk files with more filesystem and paging space,
and we enhanced the run script wrapper a bit. There are also a couple
of help text tweaks, system startup fixes, etc.
The tarball is 142882727 bytes, and its sha256sum is
32647dbcc3a0d541209eafc2f78d054e456d58046c9b3c5bc4ca64a8d9fc0037.
Dennis,
Is there anywhere we can find a list of what is avaiable on each of
those images? I tried a few and at least one has all the compilers
but no emacs. Another has emacs but apparently no compilers. :-)
I'm impressed so far but would really like to find systems that I
can do some real programming on. Is it possible for someone to
build a Rev 24 image with everything on it?
My last real work with Primos was during the move from Rev 19
to Rev 20. I am amazed at how much I have forgotten and really
regret having gotten rid of all my documentation (at least I
think I did, I suppose it is possible there is still a box in
the attic full of Prime manuals including my course books from
the internals class!)
One other one that I should know but forgot is how to add a user.
Would be nice to set it up properly before I start loading programs
on it. A lot of languages were available on Prime that you don't
see much anymore and Rosetta Code is just crying out for more examples.
bill
10:25 a.m.
Bill,
Is there anywhere we can find a list of what is
avaiable on each of
those images? I tried a few and at least one has all the compilers
but no emacs. Another has emacs but apparently no compilers. :-)
I'm impressed so far but would really like to find
systems that I can
do some real programming on. Is it possible for someone to build a
Rev 24 image with everything on it?
There's not a list of what's on each image. I'll think about creating
one.
Recall that the layered products tended to be related to the version of
the base OS. Sometimes you could use an older version on a newer
PRIMOS, sometimes not. Since the ones we have came with specific
distribution tape sets, or from backups of specific machines, and
basically nobody just had everything Prime sold, the systems we can
build are "uneven". The largest collections of layered products in
captivity are for 19, 22 and 23. I think the only copy of INFORMATION
is on 21. Etc.
There are incomplete source sets for 19 and 22. We're in the process of
revamping the 19.2 sample system to have the source for the kernel it's
running baked in.
My last real work with Primos was during the move from
Rev 19 to Rev
20. I am amazed at how much I have forgotten and really regret
having gotten rid of all my documentation (at least I think I did, I
suppose it is possible there is still a box in the attic full of
Prime manuals including my course books from the internals class!)
I've had to refresh a few things, but I'm amazed at how many details are
still in my head. There's a lot of new stuff post-20, too.
I know I ended up with some of your manuals. Lots of scanned manuals at
sysovl.info in PDF form, if you can live with that. A couple versions
of the internals class manual are there.
I'm still moving stuff into that site, so if there's something specific
you need, let me know and I'll see if I can help.
One other one that I should know but forgot is how to
add a user.
Would be nice to set it up properly before I start loading programs
on it.
You do that with EDIT_PROFILE. Make sure the priority ACL is set (I
think that's being done at boot), and run it from the console.
De
10:37 a.m.
On 3/24/20 1:25 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote:
I barely touched 20 saw nothing beyond that.
Thank you. That stuck in my head but reading the pocket guides I still
have didn't refresh it for me.
bill
Bill,
I'll just have to start all of them and see which have the fullest
set of compilers. :-) Maybe have to find a version of emacs that
is publicly available that will build on Primos. :-)
I wonder if anyone has a copy of the sources for EDV? that was our
common editor when I did this for a living. It was a very good full
screen editor and was written in Fortran (with calls to some low
level Primos stuff for the single character input and such).
Is there anywhere we can find a list of what is
avaiable on each of
those images? I tried a few and at least one has all the compilers
but no emacs. Another has emacs but apparently no compilers. :-)
I'm impressed so far but would really like to
find systems that I can
do some real programming on. Is it possible for someone to build a
Rev 24 image with everything on it?
There's not a list of what's on each image. I'll think about creating
one.
Recall that the layered products tended to be related to the version of
the base OS. Sometimes you could use an older version on a newer
PRIMOS, sometimes not. Since the ones we have came with specific
distribution tape sets, or from backups of specific machines, and
basically nobody just had everything Prime sold, the systems we can
build are "uneven". The largest collections of layered products in
captivity are for 19, 22 and 23. I think the only copy of INFORMATION
is on 21. Etc.
There are incomplete source sets for 19 and 22. We're in the process of
revamping the 19.2 sample system to have the source for the kernel it's
running baked in.
Ah... Sources. That was my ballywick back in those days. Maintaining
the OS and layered products for a cluster of 850's at West Point. Those
were the days.
My last real work with Primos was during the move
from Rev 19 to Rev
20. I am amazed at how much I have forgotten and really regret
having gotten rid of all my documentation (at least I think I did, I
suppose it is possible there is still a box in the attic full of
Prime manuals including my course books from the internals class!)
I've had to refresh a few things, but I'm amazed at how many details are
still in my head. There's a lot of new stuff post-20, too.
I know I ended up with some of your manuals. Lots of scanned manuals at
sysovl.info in PDF form, if you can live with that. A couple versions
of the internals class manual are there.
Well, I guess I don't need to go looking in the attic then. :-)
I think I was the only one who took the class that actually kept the
manual, which is how I ended out with more than one copy. :-)
I'm still moving stuff into that site, so if there's something specific
you need, let me know and I'll see if I can help.
I would say that the biggest help other than compilers would be EMACS. I
may actually still have the Prime EMACS Manual. I think I kept that
because I use EMACS on other systems, too and it was a good manual.
One other one that I should know but forgot is
how to add a user.
Would be nice to set it up properly before I start loading programs
on it.
You do that with EDIT_PROFILE. Make sure the priority ACL is set (I
think that's being done at boot), and run it from the console.
15 Apr
15 Apr
4:58 a.m.
Dennis,
This is primarily fo0r you but I included the group as others may
also be interested.
A few questions.
Does the emulator do a particular 50-Series machine or is
it just a generic conglomeration of all possible hardware?
Has any benchmarking been done to determine how it compares
to real Prime Systems?
And lastly, from a practical sense. Are the machines all
networked together and rely on each other for anything?
Should I be starting all of them at the same time instead
of my current practice of only running one at a time?
Definitely having fun with this. Just wish more of the
third party stuff had survived (like eDv the editor), but
then, why would we expect Prime to have fared better than
any of the other classic systems.
bill
1478
days inactive
1513
days old
14 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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bill.gunshannon＠hotmail.com -
drb＠msu.edu -
Kevin＠RawFedDogs.net -
mjkerpan＠kerpan.com