8 Mar
2001
8 Mar
'01
8:31 a.m.
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8 Mar
8 Mar
3:14 p.m.
Tony,
You must be forgetfull in your old age :-) We've talked about the 9877
before. I have two of them. Both of mine have four drives in them. They
were also available in a two and three drive versions. Each drive after the
first one was a option so you had to order three options to get four
drives. Basicly the 9877 isn't designed as a mass storage unit although it
can be used that way. Originally it was designed to mass produce tapes at
HP. You can start the copy and it will copy from one drive to all the other
drives in the same box without tying up the calculator or the interface. I
do know that they used a special version of the standard HP 98032 16 bit
parallel interface, I was able to find that much out from the guys at NASA
that have one. I think the only thing unique about it was how some of the
jumpers were set and the connector that mated to the 9877. The guys at NASA
wouldn't open their interface up and tell me what the settings were. The
9877 did not use any of the built-in calculator or interface commands.
Everything was controlled by software programs that came on a tape. You
have to have the software tape to use the 9877. AFIK the 9877 could be used
with any calculator that could use the 98032 interface IF there was
software available to operate it. I know there was software available for
the HP 9825. I expect it was available for the 9835 and 9845 as well. One
of the interesting features of the 9877 was that it would copy ANY tape
file, Binary, Protected, anything! Sort of like a Copy II PC card if you've
ever used one of them. I'm sure that was because it was designed to be used
to mass produce tapes. An ex-HP calculator engineer told me that they were
still using 9825 and 9877s to produce tapes for the 9835 and 9845. The 9877
was originally used inside of HP for mass producing tapes and was only
listed for sale in the HP catalog in 1977. I guess not many were sold
because I've only found one other than the one that you have and the two
that I have. It belongs to NASA. However their tape has deteriorated too
and now their 9877 in unusable.
The tape drive is the same as that used in the 9815, 9825, 9835, 9845
and 9831.
I did have a description and some pictures of the 9877 on my website
However my ISP managed to wipe out my site and I haven't fixed it yet.
Joe
At 10:31 PM 3/8/01 +0000, you wrote:
Does anyone know anything about the HP9877 External
Tape Memory unit? I
found one hiding in the back of my workshop while looking for something
to raid a fan from. No, don't worry, the fan is still in the 9877 -- I
found an old and dead PC power supply at the same time.
Anyway, getting back to the unit in question. It's a standard HP case --
the type that could be fitted with brackets and put in a 19" rack. On the
front is the standard power switch and LED, and cutouts for up to 4 tape
drives. Mine has only one drive fitted, though.
On the back is a mains connector, voltage selector switches, a fan, and a
50 pin amphenol connector. The latter is obviously to link it to some
kind of host computer.
Inside are 4 main sections :
1) The tape drive. This identical to the one in an HP9815 calculator,
although it has a different mounting bracket. The tape drive PCB (sensor
amplifiers, read preamp, write switch) even has a 09815- part number
2) The controller. It looks like this will only link to one drive --
there's space for another 3 of them in the case as well. It's a large
board full of TTL and analogue parts (the latter for the read amplifier
chain and motor control, I guess)
3) The interface. A small PCB with about 6 TTL chips on it. It has 4
ribbon cables to link to the controller boards and a card edge to take
the cable from the rear-panel connector.
4) THe PSU. A standard-ish HP transformer and a PCB containing the sort
of regulator circuitry you'd expect to find in a 9815 or 9825. In fact
the PSU PCB has a 09825- part number, and is presumably the same as the
one in a 9825.
From a quick look at the boards, it appears that the interface is very low
level (I don't think it even attempts to turn the bitstream from the tape
head into bytes, let alone into data blocks). It also appears that there's
an 8 bit bidirectional bus and some control lines on the host connetor.
My first question is : What is this used with, and what interface is used
(I don't think, for example, that it uses a standard 98032 parallel
interface, even if it is used with the 9825).
-tony
9 Mar
9 Mar
4:31 a.m.
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1:58 p.m.
At 06:31 PM 3/9/01 +0000, Tony wrote:
Right but I think the original price was something like $900 each!
HP used the 98032 for a lot of things like that. I know it was used on
the 9866 printer (98032 option 66), the 9885 disk drive (option 85), one of
the paper tape punches, one of the paper tape readers and a LOT of other
peripherals. I've been thinking that I'd like to find out more about the
various items that used the 98032 and how the 98032 was configured for each
one. I do have schematics for the option 66 version and one or two others.
BTW if anyone finds a 98032 interface that says option (anything) or a
manual for one of the optional 98032 interfaces please let me know about
it. I'd like to add it to my collection to study or at least get the
jumpers settings and the like from it.
Yes, I'm sure. Somewhere I have a picture of it and you can read the
model number on the interface. BTW I'm pretty certain that this one is
optioon 77. You'll notice that option number is allways(?) the same as the
last two digits of the model number of the device that it attachs to.
Exactly. That's why it's able to copy any tape no matter what machine
it came from.
I got my two 9877s under similar circumstances. I've spend years trying
to find out more about them. I did finally find one short manual. I think
it was the installation manual. And I talked to the guys at NASA and they
were able to tell me a little bit. Then the ex-HP guy told me about them
being used in the factory. So I've pieced together a little background on
them but so far I haven't been able to locate a tape. Given how badly the
HP tapes deteriorate with age, it's unlikely that I'll ever locate a
useable tape for the thing.
Do you have a 9831? That's a RARE bird! I have one but it's the only
one that I know of. It was another item that was only listed for one year
in the HP catalog. It has an interesting background. It was a temporary
replacement for the HP 9830 (both ran BASIC). But the following year HP
released the 9835 and 9845 so they dropped the 9831. HP says that there
was a big demand for a replacement for the 9830 and that was why they
developed the 9831 but if that's true then I would expect to find more
9831s around. As I mentioned above, the 9831 was a replacement for the
9830. However it not only did everything the 9830 did but it also had ALL
of the 9830 option ROMs built in! But one of the most interesting things
about the 9831 is that it's actually a 9825 with different ROMs! That's
right you can pull out the OS ROMs in an early 9825 and slide in the 9831
ROMs and the machine is now a 9831! The ex-HP guy told me that many of the
HP engineers used to keep a set of both ROMs and would change them at will.
Tape drives: Yes those are a standard design tape drive that HP used in
lots of stuff. I once worked on a spectrum analyzer and it had the
identical drives in it. I believe there are only two basic tape drives
used in HP equipment (other than the micro cassettes). This design and the
earlier ones that were driven via the capstan. The capstan type were used
in the 9865 Tape Cassette, the 9821 and 9830 calculators and some of the
other early equipment.
Joe
Tony,
You must be forgetfull in your old age :-) We've talked about the 9877
before. I have two of them. Both of mine have four drives in them. They
I remember you mentioned you had (at least) one, but as mine was still
hidden in the depths of my workshop, I don't think I said much about it.
were also available in a two and three drive
versions. Each drive after the
The printing on the back panel telling you what fuse to fit refers to OPT
002 and OPT 004, which I would guess are the 2 and 4 drive versions. I
don't see a reference to a 3 drive model, but it certainly could exist. first one was a option so you had to order three
options to get four
Sure. It's obvious I could add extra drives to mine if I had them. drives. Basicly the 9877 isn't designed as a
mass storage unit although it
can be used that way. Originally it was designed to mass produce tapes at
HP. You can start the copy and it will copy from one drive to all the other
That really suprises me, based on the lack of 'smarts' in the unit.
There ae only 2 'big' chips -- 24 pin ones -- on the controller board.
I've identified them as 74116 latches. There's no processor or memory in
the unit. I suppost it's possible there's the logic to do a bit copy
between tapes -- I will find out when I dig deeper into the unit, I guess.
drives in the same box without tying up the
calculator or the interface. I
do know that they used a special version of the standard HP 98032 16 bit
parallel interface, I was able to find that much out from the guys at NASA
Interesting and surpising. I suppose you can 'fake' a bidirectional bus
using the open-collector outputs of the 98032, by linking them to the
inputs as well as to the bus. Seems a little odd. that have one. I think the only thing unique
about it was how some of the
jumpers were set and the connector that mated to the 9877. The guys at NASA
My guess (without any proof) is that it uses the DMA feature of the
interface.
If you are _sure_ it's a 98032 interface, then that's a great help. I
have the operating/service manual for that, so it will give me an idea
as to the sort of signals to find on the I/O connector of the 98032. wouldn't open their interface up and tell me
what the settings were. The
9877 did not use any of the built-in calculator or interface commands.
Everything was controlled by software programs that came on a tape. You
That would seem to be supported by the low-level nature of the interface
(in that iu's not going to look like a standard character device).
of the interesting features of the 9877 was that
it would copy ANY tape
file, Binary, Protected, anything! Sort of like a Copy II PC card if you've
ever used one of them. I'm sure that was because it was designed to be used
Sure. This, again, comes from the fact that the 9877 just reads/writes a
raw bitstream. It's up to the calculator nd software to turn those bits
into bytes, and then into blocks and files. that I have. It belongs to NASA. However their
tape has deteriorated too
and now their 9877 in unusable.
Pity :-(. I assume this means the software is totally unavailable. I got
my 9877 from a radio rally (hamfest) and the seller didn't know anything
about it. There was certainly no program tape anywhere near it.
The tape drive is the same as that used in the 9815, 9825, 9835, 9845
and 9831.
I've not dug out my 9825 (or 9831) yet, but I can confirm the drive is
_identical_ (including the PCB) to that in a 9815.
-tony
10 Mar
10 Mar
5:45 a.m.
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8 Mar
8 Mar
4 p.m.
At 10:31 PM 3/8/01 +0000, you wrote:
Does anyone know anything about the HP9877 External
Tape Memory unit? I
My website is still MIA but I uploaded some info and pictures about the
9877. They're at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/". Lousy pictures!
I need to re-take them.
Joe
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