21 Aug
2008
21 Aug
'08
10:25 a.m.
Over time, I've seen an occasional link here to an on-line copy of some 50's or
early 60's electronic hobbyist magazine describing a binary project of one kind or
another using vacuum tubes. If you have such a link or know of any bibliographical
references to such articles that might be useful in obtaining a hard copy of the
applicable articles via library-based research and inter-library loans, please post it
here.
I have in the past found plenty of relay-based logic circuits on-line but am having a
really tough time finding any binary tube circuits with component values. If there's
enough material submitted to justify it, I might start a web page on this topic or, at
least, a blog that links to the relevant materials on-line.
Thanks.
21 Aug
21 Aug
10:59 a.m.
>>>> "William" == William Blair
<wbblair3 at yahoo.com> writes:
William> Over time, I've seen an occasional link here to an on-line
William> copy of some 50's or early 60's electronic hobbyist magazine
William> describing a binary project of one kind or another using
William> vacuum tubes. If you have such a link or know of any
William> bibliographical references to such articles that might be
William> useful in obtaining a hard copy of the applicable articles
William> via library-based research and inter-library loans, please
William> post it here.
I found some on Bitsavers.
"Illiac design techniques" (under univOfIllinoisUrbana/illiac/ILLIAC)
describes the basic logic elements, which are then just hooked
together as building blocks (And, Or, Not, and flip-flop).
Under ibm/sage there's a documents list -- only one of the documents
is actually there but a lot more are listed, including circuit
diagrams. Maybe those are available...
There probably are others but those are a few I found quickly.
paul
11:27 a.m.
On 21 Aug 2008 at 10:25, William Blair wrote:
I have in the past found plenty of relay-based logic
circuits on-line
but am having a really tough time finding any binary tube circuits
with component values. If there's enough material submitted to
justify it, I might start a web page on this topic or, at least, a
blog that links to the relevant materials on-line.
DIY digital projects using vacuum tubes were extremely rare, mostly
due to cost. About the only one that comes to mind is the early 60's
telephone-dial calculator from Electronics Illustrated--and even
there, the storage elements were neon lamps, with interstage driving
being accomplished by vacuum tubes.
I recall seeing the article, being really interested and put off by
the cost for something that would add more slowly than paper-and-
pencil.
Many of the DIY binary circuits involving tubes simply used them as
multivibrators. I recall a project that provided a 115 volt, 60 Hz
precision supply for an ordinary electric clock from a crystal
frequency reference (the when and where escapes me, however).
Cheers,
Chuck
11:47 a.m.
>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Guzis
<cclist at sydex.com> writes:
Chuck> On 21 Aug 2008 at 10:25, William Blair wrote:
> I have in the past found plenty of relay-based
logic circuits
> on-line but am having a really tough time finding any binary tube
> circuits with component values. If there's enough material
> submitted to justify it, I might start a web page on this topic
> or, at least, a blog that links to the relevant materials on-line.
Chuck> DIY digital projects using vacuum tubes were extremely rare,
Chuck> mostly due to cost. About the only one that comes to mind is
Chuck> the early 60's telephone-dial calculator from Electronics
Chuck> Illustrated--and even there, the storage elements were neon
Chuck> lamps, with interstage driving being accomplished by vacuum
Chuck> tubes....
Chuck> Many of the DIY binary circuits involving tubes simply used
Chuck> them as multivibrators.
My father built an electronic keyer out of vacuum tubes somewhere in
the 1950s. Unlike most other keyers from that era which were
multivibrator type circuits, this one was an actual logic circuit,
with tubes used in flip-flops. It was still working perfectly around
1971.
I never saw the schematics for it, though, and I doubt it exists any
longer.
paul
12:29 p.m.
I'm not about to dig mine out and paw through it, but I think the
"bible" of tube design, the "Radiotron Designer's Handbook" might
be
a bit too early to provide guidance on logic circuits. Anyone know
offhand?
Cheers,
Chuck
2:56 p.m.
On Thursday 21 August 2008 14:27, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 21 Aug 2008 at 10:25, William Blair wrote:
Do you happen to know if any of that sort of thing is available online
anywhere? I'm in the middle of some conversation elsewhere about interesting
things having been done with neon bulbs and other sorts of elements, and
can't even find the "nonsense box" that appeared in Popular Electronics back
when anywhere online.
I have in the past found plenty of relay-based
logic circuits on-line
but am having a really tough time finding any binary tube circuits
with component values. If there's enough material submitted to
justify it, I might start a web page on this topic or, at least, a
blog that links to the relevant materials on-line.
DIY digital projects using vacuum tubes were extremely rare, mostly
due to cost. About the only one that comes to mind is the early 60's
telephone-dial calculator from Electronics Illustrated--and even
there, the storage elements were neon lamps, with interstage driving
being accomplished by vacuum tubes. I recall seeing the article, being really interested
and put off by
the cost for something that would add more slowly than paper-and-
pencil.
Yes, I remember feeling that way about a few projects from magazines back
then. :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
5:10 p.m.
On 21 Aug 2008 at 17:56, Roy J. Tellason wrote:
Do you happen to know if any of that sort of thing is
available online
anywhere? I'm in the middle of some conversation elsewhere about interesting
things having been done with neon bulbs and other sorts of elements, and
can't even find the "nonsense box" that appeared in Popular Electronics
back
when anywhere online.
http://www.tayloredge.com/museum/museum/EI_1166_Electronic_Computer.pd
f
Is the calculator article. Regarding other DIY, I remember a morse-
code typewriter that used microswitches as keys, but not much else.
I think it probabaly used diodes and relays.
Cheers,
Chuck
22 Aug
22 Aug
7:03 a.m.
>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck Guzis
<cclist at sydex.com> writes:
Chuck> Is the calculator article. Regarding other DIY, I remember a
Chuck> morse- code typewriter that used microswitches as keys, but
Chuck> not much else. I think it probabaly used diodes and relays.
I don't remember relay based Morse code typewriters. Then again,
there were the McElroy (and probably others) Morse code puched tape
machines ("Wheatstone" code, two tracks) that were probably all
mechanical, sort of like an ASR33 (but harder because of the variable
length code).
Somewhere in the late 1960s there were articles in QST showing
electronic morse code keyboards. The first one I saw used ferrite
rings as a combination ROM (like "rope memory") and shift register.
The second one used ferrite rings as ROM but RTL logic ICs (Fairchild
uL714, uL723) for the state machine.
Diode ROM would be easy (it may have been done) and relays instead of
RTL is also clearly possible but I don't remember seeing it.
paul, ni1d
30 Aug
30 Aug
6:36 a.m.
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/handbooks/LogicHandbook_Mar61.pdf (4.4MB)
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/handbooks/LogicHandbook_Mar67.pdf (25MB)
These go quite indepth about transistor logic used in the original DEC system
modules and the B and R series Flip-Chip modules. It would be a fun
experiment to see if they will work on valves. The 1961 handbook discusses
the original series and the 1967 handbook coveres the Flip-Chip series, with
sections on analogue to digital conversion and other goodies.
What would be a really interesting read is a technical manual on the IBM 650.
I'd love to have a good look at the bi-quinary arithmetic system.
Alexis.
5958
days inactive
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