27 Jun
2019
27 Jun
'19
7:30 a.m.
From: Liam Proven
This is *epic*.
Indeed. I was blown away by the complexity of his technique for reading
the digits.
I can't believe there wasn't a much easier technique, though, e.g. using a
logic analyzer and a small program to read through the ROS!
Perhaps the challenge of doing it his way entertained him, though, like
George Mallory's famous line about climbing Everest.
Noel
27 Jun
27 Jun
7:42 a.m.
In the early days of cyber crime (it was called ?computer crime? back in the 1980s),
fraudsters would purchase an aerosol spray with tiny metal particles in it (I forget what
the specific valid use case was, but it was legitimate), and apply the spray to the mag
stripe on the back of credit cards, then visually read out the bits with a magnifier. 1s
and 0s oriented the tiny metal bits orthogonally, and this could be observed. Then they
would program card blanks with the recovered mag stripe data.
Mag stripe readers were expensive and hard to acquire in those days, so this was the
chosen method of recovering track data from credit cards.
I was a police detective investigating ?Stone Age?, i.e. pre-Internet cyber crime in that
era, and saw this for myself by actually spraying a card and then reading out its data.
Very creative criminals!
Kevin
On Jun 27, 2019, at 7:30 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
From: Liam Proven
This is *epic*.
Indeed. I was blown away by the complexity of his technique for reading
the digits.
I can't believe there wasn't a much easier technique, though, e.g. using a
logic analyzer and a small program to read through the ROS!
Perhaps the challenge of doing it his way entertained him, though, like
George Mallory's famous line about climbing Everest.
Noel 
8:21 a.m.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 8:42 AM Kevin McQuiggin via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
In the early days of cyber crime (it was called
?computer crime? back in
the 1980s), fraudsters would purchase an aerosol spray with tiny metal
particles in it (I forget what the specific valid use case was, but it was
legitimate), and apply the spray to the mag stripe on the back of credit
cards, then visually read out the bits with a magnifier. 1s and 0s
oriented the tiny metal bits orthogonally, and this could be observed.
Then they would program card blanks with the recovered mag stripe data.
Mag stripe readers were expensive and hard to acquire in those days, so
this was the chosen method of recovering track data from credit cards.
Back when I got to school and I was hanging around the computer room on
campus (back when it was THE room on campus with computers), I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for. The
on-staff operator took a mag tape off the rack, opened it up and set the
end of the tape on the table. She then took the fob and placed it on the
end of the tape and all the iron filings that were suspended in the liquid
inside the fob aligned to the magnetic fields of the tape. They used it to
tell the difference between 800, 1600 and 6250 bps tapes so they could
handle the tapes correctly (can't recall if there were two tape drives, or
if there were manual switches). I asked how she knew the difference, and
she said that after you do enough of them, you can tell by a glance. When
she started, her boss had given her a bunch of segments of tape of known
density to look at. After playing with it for a few minutes, and sometimes
referring back to them, she got the hang of it, which sounds a bit like
part of the story posted earlier in this thread.
I've also heard people tell stories of using this fob to find the end of
the marks and records on mag tape to splice together tapes that had become
broken and ruined (so they'd cut the damaged records out at record
boundaries to recover at least some of the data on ANSI formatted tapes). I
don't know if this was a tall tale designed to impress over a beer, or the
sad confessions of someone that had gone through a lot of pain and needed
to share...
Warner
8:30 a.m.
On Jun 27, 2019, at 8:21 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Back when I got to school and I was hanging around the computer room on
campus (back when it was THE room on campus with computers), I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for. The
on-staff operator took a mag tape off the rack, opened it up and set the
end of the tape on the table. She then took the fob and placed it on the
end of the tape and all the iron filings that were suspended in the liquid
inside the fob aligned to the magnetic fields of the tape.
I don't recall seeing one of those in either of the computer rooms I worked in as a
student back in the late 1980s. I would love to get my hands on one (or make one?) now.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
8:52 a.m.
Look at http://www.tapeheads.net/showthread.php?t=39958
Marc
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 8:30 AM Mark J. Blair via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Jun 27, 2019, at 8:21 AM, Warner Losh via
cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Back when I got to school and I was hanging around the computer room on
campus (back when it was THE room on campus with computers), I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for. The
on-staff operator took a mag tape off the rack, opened it up and set the
end of the tape on the table. She then took the fob and placed it on the
end of the tape and all the iron filings that were suspended in the
liquid
inside the fob aligned to the magnetic fields of
the tape.
I don't recall seeing one of those in either of the computer rooms I
worked in as a student back in the late 1980s. I would love to get my hands
on one (or make one?) now.
--
Mark J. Blair, NF6X <nf6x at nf6x.net>
http://www.nf6x.net/
9:32 a.m.
On 06/27/2019 10:30 AM, Mark J. Blair via cctalk wrote:
I don't recall seeing one of those in either of
the computer rooms I worked in as a student back in the late 1980s. I would love to get my
hands on one (or make one?) now.
One brand of a liquid you put on the tape is MagnaSee.
If you google "magnetic tape viewer" they have pictures of
what I think the earlier poster described.
Jon
10:03 a.m.
At 11:32 AM 6/27/2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
If you google "magnetic tape viewer" they
have pictures of what I think the earlier poster described.
I see quite a few on eBay and Amazon. Looks like you just need to
pick a Japanese one? What's the distinguishing characteristic of a
better one? It'll see mag tape marks like the liquid does?
Or I would assume the liquid is much more high resolution.
- John
10:20 a.m.
On 6/27/19 10:03 AM, John Foust via cctalk wrote:
At 11:32 AM 6/27/2019, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
I've not had any luck using the gold-colored Japanese film on magtape.
Magnetic stripes yes, but not tapes.
--Chuck
If you google "magnetic tape viewer"
they have pictures of what I think the earlier poster described.
I see quite a few on eBay and Amazon. Looks like you just need to
pick a Japanese one? What's the distinguishing characteristic of a
better one? It'll see mag tape marks like the liquid does?
Or I would assume the liquid is much more high resolution. 
8:37 a.m.
It is true. Inter-block gaps are huge and easy to spot/splice.
That is why writing short tape blocks wastes so much tape.
On 6/27/19 8:21 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
I've also heard people tell stories of using this
fob to find the end of
the marks and records on mag tape to splice together tapes that had become
broken and ruined (so they'd cut the damaged records out at record
boundaries to recover at least some of the data on ANSI formatted tapes). I
don't know if this was a tall tale designed to impress over a beer, or the
sad confessions of someone that had gone through a lot of pain and needed
to share...
Warner
8:43 a.m.
On 6/27/19 8:21 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for.
http://qicreader.blogspot.com/p/track-visualization.html
shows a couple of them
8:46 a.m.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 9:42 AM Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
On 6/27/19 8:21 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
Yea, the plastiform magnetic viewer was the thing that I saw. Nice article,
including pictures of the bits on a credit card...
Warner
I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for.
http://qicreader.blogspot.com/p/track-visualization.html
shows a couple of them
9:09 a.m.
I still use KyRead (older 70s era versions were Magnasee and Visomag),
which are applied directly to the magnetic medium. Basically a mixture
of micron-sized pyrolytic iron powder and an inert, rapidly-evaporating
carrier. Shake the bottle up and drop some on the medium. As the
carrier evaporates the magnetic features become visible.
What hit the vendors of such stuff was the Montreal protocol ban on
CFCs, such as Freon TF. Kyros adapted initially by using an HCFC, but
as those were sunsetted, went to some sort of ether. You can still get
the stuff. Be prepared to be shocked on shipping charges.
I've suggested to an overseas friend that a mixture of methanol and
pyrolytic iron powder might work without damaging the medium. He
reports that it works, but the methanol does take a bit of time to
evaporate.
The viewing films aren't terribly useful for magnetic tapes, but do show
the features of a credit-card magnetic stripe (lower bit density). But
get the Japanese film, not the common green stuff, as it's not very
sensitive.
Mostly what I use the Kyread for here is separating 7- from 9-track
tapes and verifying that a tape had been degaussed.
Here, for example is what a 7-track tape looks like using a simple
webcam to take the photo:
https://i.imgur.com/wKuTXZH.jpg
--Chuck
On 6/27/19 8:46 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 9:42 AM Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
--
--Chuck
Sent from my digital computer
On 6/27/19 8:21 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
Yea, the plastiform magnetic viewer was the thing that I saw. Nice article,
including pictures of the bits on a credit card...
Warner
I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for.
http://qicreader.blogspot.com/p/track-visualization.html
shows a couple of them
9:27 a.m.
In days old olde - -? ?we? used? to? use? liquid stuff like this? when? splicing? ?video?
tape? too...? ? It? would? shoe? the head? scan lines? Ed#
In a message dated 6/27/2019 9:09:50 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk at
classiccmp.org writes:
I still use KyRead (older 70s era versions were Magnasee and Visomag),
which are applied directly to the magnetic medium.? Basically a mixture
of micron-sized pyrolytic iron powder and an inert, rapidly-evaporating
carrier.? Shake the bottle up and drop some on the medium.? As the
carrier evaporates the magnetic features become visible.
What hit the vendors of such stuff was the Montreal protocol ban on
CFCs, such as Freon TF.? Kyros adapted initially by using an HCFC, but
as those were sunsetted, went to some sort of ether.? You can still get
the stuff.? Be prepared to be shocked on shipping charges.
I've suggested to an overseas friend that a mixture of methanol and
pyrolytic iron powder might work without damaging the medium.? He
reports that it works, but the methanol does take a bit of time to
evaporate.
The viewing films aren't terribly useful for magnetic tapes, but do show
the features of a credit-card magnetic stripe (lower bit density).? But
get the Japanese film, not the common green stuff, as it's not very
sensitive.
Mostly what I use the Kyread for here is separating 7- from 9-track
tapes and verifying that a tape had been degaussed.
Here, for example is what a 7-track tape looks like using a simple
webcam to take the photo:
https://i.imgur.com/wKuTXZH.jpg
--Chuck
On 6/27/19 8:46 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 9:42 AM Al Kossow via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
--
--Chuck
Sent from my digital computer
On 6/27/19 8:21 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
Yea, the plastiform magnetic viewer was the thing that I saw. Nice article,
including pictures of the bits on a credit card...
Warner
I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for.
http://qicreader.blogspot.com/p/track-visualization.html
shows a couple of them
9:28 a.m.
On 06/27/2019 10:21 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
Back when I got to school and I was hanging around the computer room on
campus (back when it was THE room on campus with computers), I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for. The
on-staff operator took a mag tape off the rack, opened it up and set the
end of the tape on the table. She then took the fob and placed it on the
end of the tape and all the iron filings that were suspended in the liquid
inside the fob aligned to the magnetic fields of the tape. They used it to
tell the difference between 800, 1600 and 6250 bps tapes so they could
handle the tapes correctly
800 BPI tapes had no recording over the BOT marker.
1600,
3200 and 6250 tapes had different tracks with a burst of
ones and zeroes across the marker, that uniquely identified
the density.
It had to be a really SIMPLE scheme as the drive itself (not
the formatter) needed to detect this and set various
circuits correctly, like read preamp gain and slicer threshold.
Jon
28 Jun
28 Jun
2:15 a.m.
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 17:21, Warner Losh via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for.
If I may just say -- only about 5% of humanity know how big that is. I
don't. I don't even know if a half a dollar is a note or a coin, and
that's without getting extra-pedantic and pointing out that about a
dozen countries call their currencies the "dollar".
:-(
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
9:57 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
> I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob on the
desk and asked what it
> was for.
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
If I may just say -- only about 5% of humanity know
how big that is. I
don't. I don't even know if a half a dollar is a note or a coin, and
that's without getting extra-pedantic and pointing out that about a
dozen countries call their currencies the "dollar".
:-(
Oh, FAR FAR FAR less than 5%.
Most residents of USA haven't seen a half dollar or "50 cent piece" in
decades. They are as much of an oddity as the $2 bill. They are
nominally still in circulation, most recent being JFK, but I think that
they stopped making them in 2002, and there are federal vaults full of
uncirculated pre-2002 coins. Most recent has a portrait of Kennedy.
They are 30.61mm diameter, which is the largest relatively recent
USA coin (not counting the long discontinued 38.1mm SILVER DOLLAR)
You could have just ASSUMED THAT IT WOULD BE logarithmically between a
quarter[dollar] (24.26mm) and a dollar coin (26.5mm). That would be
completely WRONG, unless you use the 38.1mm ancient "silver dollar", but
hardly a problem.
"50 pence coin" would be CLOSE ENOUGH.
Actually, for THIS purpose, "large coin" is as accurate as you need.
Just as I am not at all familiar with British currency, that hasn't
dampened my appreciation of British TV, such as Doctor Who and a variety
of Brit-coms.
"Silver dollar" used to be a large coin. (38.1mm) It was the standard for
casinos. When it was discontinued (1935), the casinos started to mint
their own chips/tokens as a replacement. There was a brief attempt to
revive the silver dollar in 1971 with the "Eisenhower Dollar".
It is quite rare that you will encounter one of the "large dollars".
The Susan B Anthony dollar (1979-1981)
http://www.smalldollars.com/
was never widely accepted, mostly because it was MUCH MUCH too close to a
quarter in size. (26.5mm V 24.26mm) Different edge milling is NOT
ENOUGH. It COULD have been widely accepted, if the gubmint were to have
given a tax incentive to have video games that took a quarter to provide
five games for a "Carter Quarter"; and the "quantity sale" would have
been so profitable that the tax incentive would only have to have been
short term.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
It was later replaced with the Sacajewa dollar. Same problem.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
Then there was a commemorative series (gold colored) of presidents of USA.
Change of COLOR is NOT ENOUGH.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
And, I understand that the gubmint is planning an "American innovation"
commemorative series. We are far too arrogant to learn from our mistakes.
It will be quite rare that you will encounter one.
But, the states of USA commemorative quarters were so popular that they
followed that with national parks commemorative quarters.
The quarter is the largest USA coin that you are likely to encounter
in circulation.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
10:18 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Jun 28, 2019, at 09:57, Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
It was later replaced with the Sacajewa dollar. Same problem.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
Then there was a commemorative series (gold colored) of presidents of USA. Change of
COLOR is NOT ENOUGH.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
It depends on where you are in the country, I guess. Around here (Seattle area) lots of
vending machines give out dollar coins when returning change. But, with more vending
machines having payment card readers, there is less opportunity to get dollar coins from
them.
One big problem with dollar coins is cash trays need to be redesigned for them. Maybe if
the US got rid of the penny (like Canada has) there would be somewhere to put dollar coins
in a register and they would be used more often.
alan
10:59 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 06/28/19 13:18, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote (in part):
One big problem with dollar coins is cash trays need
to be redesigned
for them. Maybe if the US got rid of the penny (like Canada has) there
would be somewhere to put dollar coins in a register and they would be
used more often.
Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and 28mm,
resp.).
N.
alan
11:09 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
'Is that a toonie in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me?'
From: "cctalk" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
To: "Alan Perry" <aperry at snowmoose.com>, "cctalk" <cctalk
at classiccmp.org>, "Fred Cisin" <cisin at xenosoft.com>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 10:59:36 AM
Subject: Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM
of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 06/28/19 13:18, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote (in part):
One big problem with dollar coins is cash trays need
to be redesigned
for them. Maybe if the US got rid of the penny (like Canada has) there
would be somewhere to put dollar coins in a register and they would be
used more often.
Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and 28mm,
resp.).
N.
alan
11:11 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Jun 28, 2019, at 10:59, Nemo Nusquam <cym224 at
gmail.com> wrote:
On 06/28/19 13:18, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote (in part):
Oh, I know. I was questioned by the RCMP for spending a $2 bill that was in my leftover
Canadian cash from a previous trip years before.
alan
One big problem with dollar coins is cash trays
need to be redesigned for them. Maybe if the US got rid of the penny (like Canada has)
there would be somewhere to put dollar coins in a register and they would be used more
often.
Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and 28mm, resp.).
N.
alan
1:54 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 06/28/2019 11:11, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
Two weeks ago I was in London, and had brought my pound notes/coins from
a visit a few years earlier. When trying to buy lunch, the cashier
refused my ?10 note since new ?5 and ?10 notes had been issued over a
year before. I was advised I could change it at a bank...
So the next day I stopped at a Metro Bank outlet on my way to our local
office, but was told they'd only change notes for account holders --
which I can guarantee you I will now never be. But I was told I could go
to the Bank of England and they'd change it. The BoE was probably only
20 minutes away by Tube, but I wasn't trying to turn this exchange into
a side-quest. :^/
I still have the ?10 note. In theory I might be able to exchange it by
snail mail, but haven't looked into it yet...
--S.
Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with
coins (26.5mm and 28mm, resp.).
Oh, I know. I was questioned by the RCMP for spending a $2 bill that was in my leftover
Canadian cash from a previous trip years before.
3:50 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 06/28/19 16:54, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote (in part):
On 06/28/2019 11:11, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
Two weeks ago
I was in London, and had brought my pound notes/coins
from a visit a few years earlier. When trying to buy lunch, the
cashier refused my ?10 note since new ?5 and ?10 notes had been issued
over a year before. I was advised I could change it at a bank...
Then there were those huge 10-franc coins in France before the Euro,
large enough to have writing engraved on the edge. (I still have one or
two somewhere....)
N.
Canada
also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and
28mm, resp.).
Oh, I know. I was questioned by the RCMP for spending a $2 bill that
was in my leftover Canadian cash from a previous trip years before. 
9:53 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 2019-06-28 7:50 p.m., Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote:
On 06/28/19 16:54, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote (in
part):
The Canadian 2 dollar coin has writing engraved on the edge.
The largest coins I have encounter was when I was in Mexico in the early
90s.? I think the smallest denomination at? the time was 500 pesos it
was about the size of 2or 3 quarters stacked up and worth nothing.
Paul.
On 06/28/2019 11:11, Alan Perry via cctalk
wrote:
Two weeks ago
I was in London, and had brought my pound notes/coins
from a visit a few years earlier. When trying to buy lunch, the
cashier refused my ?10 note since new ?5 and ?10 notes had been
issued over a year before. I was advised I could change it at a bank...
Then there were those huge 10-franc coins in France before the Euro,
large enough to have writing engraved on the edge.? (I still have one
or two somewhere....)
N. Canada
also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and
28mm, resp.).
Oh, I know. I was questioned by the RCMP for spending a $2 bill that
was in my leftover Canadian cash from a previous trip years before.
7:55 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/28/19 1:54 PM, Steven M Jones via cctalk wrote:
On 06/28/2019 11:11, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
Two weeks ago I was in London, and had brought my pound notes/coins
from a visit a few years earlier. When trying to buy lunch, the
cashier refused my ?10 note since new ?5 and ?10 notes had been issued
over a year before. I was advised I could change it at a bank...
So the next day I stopped at a Metro Bank outlet on my way to our
local office, but was told they'd only change notes for account
holders -- which I can guarantee you I will now never be. But I was
told I could go to the Bank of England and they'd change it. The BoE
was probably only 20 minutes away by Tube, but I wasn't trying to turn
this exchange into a side-quest. :^/
I still have the ?10 note. In theory I might be able to exchange it by
snail mail, but haven't looked into it yet...
If I had realized that the
Canadian $2 bill been withdrawn, I never
would have spent it and would have instead added it to my collection of
withdrawn currency.
Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with
coins (26.5mm and
28mm, resp.).
Oh, I know. I was questioned by the RCMP for spending a $2 bill that
was in my leftover Canadian cash from a previous trip years before. 
9:06 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
If the note is in good condition, I'll buy it from you. I've been
collecting US coins on and off for years, and started on GB coinage when I
lived over there. Now I collect about everything, including currency, AND
WILL TRADE COMPUTER ITEMS FOR COINS AND CURRENCY!
Paul
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 3:55 PM Steven M Jones via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 06/28/2019 11:11, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
> Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and 28mm,
resp.).
Oh, I know. I was questioned by the RCMP for spending a $2 bill that was
in my
leftover Canadian cash from a previous trip years before.
Two weeks ago I was in London, and had brought my pound notes/coins from
a visit a few years earlier. When trying to buy lunch, the cashier
refused my ?10 note since new ?5 and ?10 notes had been issued over a
year before. I was advised I could change it at a bank...
So the next day I stopped at a Metro Bank outlet on my way to our local
office, but was told they'd only change notes for account holders --
which I can guarantee you I will now never be. But I was told I could go
to the Bank of England and they'd change it. The BoE was probably only
20 minutes away by Tube, but I wasn't trying to turn this exchange into
a side-quest. :^/
I still have the ?10 note. In theory I might be able to exchange it by
snail mail, but haven't looked into it yet...
--S.
11:09 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
If the note is in good condition, I'll buy it from
you. I've been
collecting US coins on and off for years, and started on GB coinage when I
lived over there. Now I collect about everything, including currency, AND
WILL TRADE COMPUTER ITEMS FOR COINS AND CURRENCY!
Oddly, I, too, will trade computer items for coins and currency. I like the
green kind with presidents. ;)
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- The best things in life are sold out. --------------------------------------
11:19 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote:
Oddly, I, too, will trade computer items for coins and
currency. I like the
green kind with presidents. ;)
Those are nice, but I'd rather have the ones with a picture of Ben
Franklin, who was not a president.
29 Jun
29 Jun
3:55 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 22:55, Steven M Jones via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Two weeks ago I was in London, and had brought my pound notes/coins from
a visit a few years earlier. When trying to buy lunch, the cashier
refused my ?10 note since new ?5 and ?10 notes had been issued over a
year before. I was advised I could change it at a bank...
Yep. I had this at Easter last year.
The first time I took my Czech girlfriend to visit England.
The airport bus refused my "tenner".
I have been away long enough, they've changed the money. This shook me
as well as annoying me.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
28 Jun
28 Jun
12:38 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/28/2019 11:59 AM, Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote:
On 06/28/19 13:18, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote (in
part):
I like $1 bills better than coins here in CANADA. The lack of pennies is
real pain, as 3 cents rounds up to 5 cents for cash. but credit/bank
card is still in cents.
Will trade new $1 coins for old dirty $1 US bills. :)
One big problem with dollar coins is cash trays
need to be redesigned
for them. Maybe if the US got rid of the penny (like Canada has) there
would be somewhere to put dollar coins in a register and they would be
used more often.
Canada also replaced the $1- and $2-bill with coins (26.5mm and 28mm,
resp.).
11:25 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Fri, June 28, 2019 18:57, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
snip snip snip
> I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it
> was for.
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
If I may just say -- only about 5% of humanity
know how big that is. I
don't. I don't even know if a half a dollar is a note or a coin, and
that's without getting extra-pedantic and pointing out that about a
dozen countries call their currencies the "dollar".
:-(
Oh, FAR FAR FAR less than 5%.
Most residents of USA haven't seen a half dollar or "50 cent piece" in
decades. They are as much of an oddity as the $2 bill. They are
nominally still in circulation, most recent being JFK, but I think that
they stopped making them in 2002, and there are federal vaults full of
uncirculated pre-2002 coins. Most recent has a portrait of Kennedy.
They are 30.61mm diameter, which is the largest relatively recent
USA coin (not counting the long discontinued 38.1mm SILVER DOLLAR)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
How odd & funny!
Being a Dutchman, I do have a few half dollars, 2 $2 bills and 2
Susan B. Antony 1 dollar coins. Oh, and a silver dollar which is
pretty large.
Where I got those? Well, Las Vegas for the half dollar coins (slot
machines), change given back (the $2 bills), and a cable car ticket
vending machine in SF (the $1 coins).
Can't remember where I got the silver dollar from tough.
Still have them because I just liked them.
Ed
--
Ik email, dus ik besta 😆
12:18 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>> I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob on
the desk and asked what
>> it was for.
The big failure of the Susan B. Anthony coin was that it was about the
same size (slightly different shape) as a quarter-dollar coin, causing
people to mistake them as such on occasion.
It was *extremely* unpopular.
FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
circulation.
--Chuck
12:35 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
I have not seen any half dollars in circulation in some time. They are just
too big to fit in people skinny jeans these days.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 3:18 PM
To: Fred Cisin via cctalk
Subject: Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM
of an
IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>> I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob on
the desk and asked what
>> it was for.
The big failure of the Susan B. Anthony coin was that it was about the
same size (slightly different shape) as a quarter-dollar coin, causing
people to mistake them as such on occasion.
It was *extremely* unpopular.
FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
circulation.
--Chuck
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
12:47 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
Just for fun, I went to the bank and bought about $1000 in half dollar and dollar coins.
My son collects them, and we went through them all. We did find some silver half dollars.
The ones we are not keeping now go to whatever fast food or corner store is needed. Some
like them, some hate them! Most tell me they have not seen them in years.
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of TeoZ via cctalk
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 2:36 PM
To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of
an IBM 5100 using OCR
I have not seen any half dollars in circulation in some time. They are just
too big to fit in people skinny jeans these days.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 3:18 PM
To: Fred Cisin via cctalk
Subject: Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM
of an
IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>> I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob on
the desk and asked what
>> it was for.
The big failure of the Susan B. Anthony coin was that it was about the
same size (slightly different shape) as a quarter-dollar coin, causing
people to mistake them as such on occasion.
It was *extremely* unpopular.
FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
circulation.
--Chuck
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
29 Jun
29 Jun
3:39 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 21:47, Electronics Plus via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Just for fun, I went to the bank and bought about $1000 in half dollar and dollar coins.
My son collects them, and we went through them all. We did find some silver half dollars.
The ones we are not keeping now go to whatever fast food or corner store is needed. Some
like them, some hate them! Most tell me they have not seen them in years.
So they're not made any more? Interesting. Any particular reason? I
wonder if that is why I've never seen one.
US currency is very confusing to me. All the notes seem to be the same
size and colour, so you can't readily sort them. I mean, I know
America doesn't believe in helping people when they're sick, but it
wasn't until I visited that I realised you saved up particular hatred
for the blind and partially-sighted and went out of your way to make
life more difficult for them.
You use nicknames for 2 denominations which most of us foreigners
don't know -- I still don't know which is a "nickel" (which is a metal
to me) and which is a "dime" (which is a Swedish chocolate-covered
sweet bar, of which I'm very fond but can't eat because I'm
overweight).
And the base unit is a cent, but you call them "pennies", the base
unit of _my_ old country's currency, and you didn't even put the
symbol into ASCII.
Very weird.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
4:39 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
US currency is very confusing to me. All the notes
seem to be the same
size and colour, so you can't readily sort them. I mean, I know
America doesn't believe in helping people when they're sick, but it
wasn't until I visited that I realised you saved up particular hatred
for the blind and partially-sighted and went out of your way to make
life more difficult for them.
Your knowledge is way out of date. US currency changed about twenty
years ago, partially to benefit the blind. Other than the one dollar
note, they all now have much larger portraits, big plain numbers on
the back, and subtle color variations. There is a tradeoff in the
design - the mint makes them distinctive enough for the blind, yet
identical enough to force people to actually look at the notes.
Additionally, the newer brass color dollar coins are fairly successful
with the blind. They have a distinct color and edge, which does make
them very easy to distinguish from the Quarter, unlike the earlier
Susan B Anthony coin.
--
Will
1 Jul
1 Jul
4:10 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 at 13:39, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
Your knowledge is way out of date.
I was first there about 25y ago, and last there about 17y ago. The
much-vaunted redesign was, to my European eyes, so subtle as to be
indistinguishable. No, I'm not kidding.
US currency changed about twenty
years ago, partially to benefit the blind. Other than the one dollar
note, they all now have much larger portraits, big plain numbers on
the back, and subtle color variations. There is a tradeoff in the
design - the mint makes them distinctive enough for the blind, yet
identical enough to force people to actually look at the notes.
In every other country I've visited or lived in -- about 30 or 40 of
them -- banknotes are all different sizes, so that totally blind
people can sort by size if they have a few of them. I daresay the very
skilled can do it by absolute, not relative, size. Sighted people can
and do do it by touch without really thinking about it.
Braille is all very well but requires careful manual searching to find
the codes and then reading of them. Note size is much quicker and
easier.
Additionally, the newer brass color dollar coins are
fairly successful
with the blind. They have a distinct color and edge, which does make
them very easy to distinguish from the Quarter, unlike the earlier
Susan B Anthony coin.
This I didn't know but I'll take your word.
To be honest, even in the UK, my blind friends mostly dislike dealing
in both paper and metal currency and if they can, these days they pay
with a card.
Facebook's efforts to introduce a cryptocurrency highlighted that its
management are rich enough that, even if they are well-travelled now,
they don't personally pay for stuff. Most of the developed world has
working contactless payment systems now, and we don't need Apple Pay
or anything.
My main British and Czech bank cards are all contactless. I don't
insert them in slots much any more and I don't sign for things any
more -- that went out in the 20th century. I just tap the card on a
reader, and if the transaction is more than a cutoff, I enter my PIN.
Obviously it's hard for blind people to sign for things; they mostly
cannot write or fill in paper forms, including cheques. However
entering a PIN is easy.
Here in Czechia, there is little use of internet payment systems such
as Paypal. They bypassed the whole cheque era; most Czechs have never
seen a chequebook and a few friends were fascinated when I showed them
my old British ones. Paper cheques disappeared in Britain a decade ago
and are very rare now.
Trivial payments are by card; large ones are by bank-to-bank
electronic transfer. I can buy train tickets, theatre or concert
tickets by sending the money directly from my bank via their website
or smartphone app to the vendor's account. So people don't use their
cards much online here, as they do now in Britain and Western Europe.
In China, they don't even use cards -- it's a mobile phone app. Actual
cash is disappearing. They bypassed cheques _and_ plastic cards and
went from cash to apps.
My American friends and colleagues over here talk about US cheque
processing and sending _images_ of cheques to one another, and the
Czechs are incredulous. This is like hearing about carrying letters by
horse-drawn carriage in these parts; this is a technology that never
really happened here and that pretty much no living person has ever
seen.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
5:01 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
In every other country I've visited or lived in --
about 30 or 40 of
them -- banknotes are all different sizes, so that totally blind
people can sort by size if they have a few of them. I daresay the very
skilled can do it by absolute, not relative, size. Sighted people can
and do do it by touch without really thinking about it.
US currency is the most most seriously counterfeited in the world, due
to being useful almost anywhere. This is why the bills are not very
distinctive - you are supposed to look at them. Most counterfeits are
good, but not good enough, and can (and will) stick out in a batch of
bills - the might just look "funny" or "odd". Have millions of eyes
looking for the counterfeits ever day of the year is actually quite
effective. I once worked at a bank, and the number of bogus bills that
the tellers would get every month was very significant - and most
actually stuck out like a sore thumb!.
So if you get a stack of US currency, and need to count it, you really
need to look at each one, even if just a partial quick glance. With a
stack of Euros, you can do a quick sort by color or size, and bogus
bills can slip right by.
It is a trade off.
Mind you, I think US currency is very ugly, compared to many other
currencies, but I see the point of the design.
On the other hand, US coins really are not faked very much anymore (it
is mostly limited to older collectibles), so the US Mint have been
playing around a lot with new coin designs, maybe more than ever
before. They are even starting to purposely introduce limited editions
into circulation (the "W Quarter"), just for fun. The are, of course,
still constrained by the physical aspects of the coins, due to
mechanical changers and such.
To be honest, even in the UK, my blind friends mostly
dislike dealing
in both paper and metal currency and if they can, these days they pay
with a card.
Yes, that is the case all around, for the entire population.
Paper cheques disappeared in Britain a decade ago
and are very rare now.
That is mostly the case here as well. Most under-40 people do not have
a checkbook anymore. In my business, I get maybe two payments per year
with checks - well under 1/10 of a percent of total payments.
My American friends and colleagues over here talk
about US cheque
processing and sending _images_ of cheques to one another, and the
Czechs are incredulous. This is like hearing about carrying letters by
horse-drawn carriage in these parts; this is a technology that never
really happened here and that pretty much no living person has ever
seen.
There are still a few institutions and older folks that still use
checks (like the annoying people that hold up the line in a grocery
store, writing out a check), so the image deposit system is just an
effort to cut down the foot traffic to banks. More convenience for
customers, and less labor costs for banks. It is handy to have, but
really, not many people use it much, simply because getting a paper
check is just a rare occurrence these days.
--
Will
5:23 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 at 14:01, William Donzelli <wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote:
US currency is the most most seriously counterfeited in the world, due
to being useful almost anywhere. This is why the bills are not very
distinctive - you are supposed to look at them. Most counterfeits are
good, but not good enough, and can (and will) stick out in a batch of
bills - the might just look "funny" or "odd". Have millions of eyes
looking for the counterfeits ever day of the year is actually quite
effective. I once worked at a bank, and the number of bogus bills that
the tellers would get every month was very significant - and most
actually stuck out like a sore thumb!.
That's kinda a good point. :-) Fake bills aren't a big problem in
Europe in my experience, but I have seen them and it does happen.
Mind you, I think US currency is very ugly, compared
to many other
currencies, but I see the point of the design.
Personally I don't hugely care about that. I remember when the Euro
became common a lot of people thought they were too modern, too
colourful, etc. Comments such as "it looks like Monopoly money" were
common. But we've all got used to them now.
Yes, that is the case all around, for the entire
population.
Well, yes, but more so. As in, paying for 1 beer, or other small
transactions that for most sighted people wouldn't be worth it.
That is mostly the case here as well. Most under-40
people do not have
a checkbook anymore. In my business, I get maybe two payments per year
with checks - well under 1/10 of a percent of total payments.
That doesn't jar with the experiences of my American friends over
here, who have to send cheques to the US for processing, get cheques
in the mail and send images back, stuff like that. A friend sends
photos of cheques to his sister for her to process for him for small
stuff "back home". It seems to be quite an everyday thing.
There are still a few institutions and older folks
that still use
checks (like the annoying people that hold up the line in a grocery
store, writing out a check), so the image deposit system is just an
effort to cut down the foot traffic to banks.
And freighting trucks full of cheques from bank to bank, I thought?
More convenience for
customers, and less labor costs for banks. It is handy to have, but
really, not many people use it much, simply because getting a paper
check is just a rare occurrence these days.
Hmm. It certainly is for me, but not from what I hear for others...
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
2 Jul
2 Jul
5:26 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 01/07/2019, Liam Proven via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote (in part):
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 at 14:01, William Donzelli
<wdonzelli at gmail.com> wrote (in part):
Yes. Most FIs and clearing houses scan them in and transmit signed
batches around, saving boatloads of money. The smaller FIs are still
an exception.
N.
There are still a few institutions and older
folks that still use
checks (like the annoying people that hold up the line in a grocery
store, writing out a check), so the image deposit system is just an
effort to cut down the foot traffic to banks.
And freighting trucks full of cheques from bank to bank, I thought? 
1 Jul
1 Jul
6:26 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 8:01 AM William Donzelli via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
That is mostly the case here as well. Most under-40
people do not have
a checkbook anymore. In my business, I get maybe two payments per year
with checks - well under 1/10 of a percent of total payments.
A few more thoughts from watching this conversation..
Checks can be relatively convenient and cheap compared to other options. I
can (for free) send a check of any size to anyone I want by filling out a
form on my bank's website to pay someone (mostly limited by my account's
balance). Running a business, I have to occasionally transfer more money
between my LLC and personal account that goes over the monthly limit I can
do, so I have them print a check, and go to the branch, pick it up, and
deposit it into the other account. It's dumb, but reliable and
easier/cheaper than doing it electronically. Plus, checks are easier to
deposit at home using a phone app than cash is. I'm still waiting for that
one to be figured out...
EFT costs money, have relatively low limits, and require you to know the
bank account # of the recipient. Personal "internet-based" electronic
payment systems fix the account number problem, but I've got accounts on
like five different ones to be able to send money to different people who
don't all use the same one.
At least in the US, card processing costs (usually) the recipient some
percentage of the transaction. As a merchant, I just factor that into the
costs of doing business. If I have to pay an extra 3% to send money to a
friend for a shared expense, that's annoying.
NFC-based tap-to-pay systems (Google/Apple Pay, etc) are nice where they're
adopted. I enjoyed using them pretty universally in Australia, and was sad
at now few seemed to exist in New Zealand. The nicest part was that it
kept the terminal from asking me to sign a receipt. There were a fair
number of situations where I tried to pay for things, but they refused
chip-and-signature cards, and had to find cash.
As an aside, coming from the US, it seems strange to pay
(business/strangers) for things and use a card that draws directly from a
bank account instead of credit. If someone steals the account # or the
merchant screws me over, there's basically no protections on my debit card,
especially if I don't notice it right away. If you have good enough credit
to get a credit card, it's easily worth the benefits.
Pat
My American friends and colleagues over here talk
about US cheque
processing and sending _images_ of cheques to one another, and the
Czechs are incredulous. This is like hearing about carrying letters by
horse-drawn carriage in these parts; this is a technology that never
really happened here and that pretty much no living person has ever
seen.
There are still a few institutions and older folks that still use
checks (like the annoying people that hold up the line in a grocery
store, writing out a check), so the image deposit system is just an
effort to cut down the foot traffic to banks. More convenience for
customers, and less labor costs for banks. It is handy to have, but
really, not many people use it much, simply because getting a paper
check is just a rare occurrence these days.
7:23 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 at 15:26, Patrick Finnegan <pat at vax11.net> wrote:
Checks can be relatively convenient and cheap compared
to other options. I can (for free) send a check of any size to anyone I want by filling
out a form on my bank's website to pay someone (mostly limited by my account's
balance).
You need to use a cheque to do that?! o_O
Running a business, I have to occasionally transfer
more money between my LLC and personal account that goes over the monthly limit I can do,
so I have them print a check, and go to the branch, pick it up, and deposit it into the
other account.
:-o
... I am astounded. I have only done that I think once in my life, to
buy a motorcycle, about 30y ago. UK cheques were guaranteed by your
card up to ?50. IOW they got the money even if you didn't have it. For
bigger purchases, sometimes, vendors might refuse. So you could get a
"counter cheque" or "banker's draft" for large transactions --
i.e.
thousands to tens of thousands -- which means the bank guarantees it,
not you personally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banker%27s_draft
It's dumb, but reliable and easier/cheaper than
doing it electronically.
I feel like the Reddit thread where the Americans discovered that for
everyone else, SMS are free to receive, and the Europeans discovered
that Americans pay to _get_ SMS as well as to _send_ SMS.
You *pay* for EFT?! I am astounded, aghast, shocked!
Plus, checks are easier to deposit at home using a
phone app than cash is.
I heard that. I think it's hilarious. It's like, I don't know,
chiselling a message into a rock, then taking a photo of the rock and
mailing it. Like an Asterix comic book, from a parallel universe where
no one invented paper and pen.
EFT costs money, have relatively low limits, and
require you to know the bank account # of the recipient.
*Boggle*
I bought my new _apartment_ by EFT in April. Of _course_ it didn't
cost me anything. I'd no more expect to pay than I'd expect to pay to
breathe.
Yes I have the account numbers. Everyone does. You can't withdraw
using it, only deposit.
Personal "internet-based" electronic payment
systems fix the account number problem, but I've got accounts on like five different
ones to be able to send money to different people who don't all use the same one.
The EU system is EU-wide.
At least in the US, card processing costs (usually)
the recipient some percentage of the transaction. As a merchant, I just factor that into
the costs of doing business. If I have to pay an extra 3% to send money to a friend for a
shared expense, that's annoying.
That is normal but only a concern for merchants.
NFC-based tap-to-pay systems (Google/Apple Pay, etc)
are nice where they're adopted. I enjoyed using them pretty universally in Australia,
and was sad at now few seemed to exist in New Zealand. The nicest part was that it kept
the terminal from asking me to sign a receipt. There were a fair number of situations
where I tried to pay for things, but they refused chip-and-signature cards, and had to
find cash.
I was in the Nethelands at new year and found I could not use my cards
to pay. This is the first time it's happened to me this century. This
includes non-EU countries, across the Caribbean, etc.
As an aside, coming from the US, it seems strange to
pay (business/strangers) for things and use a card that draws directly from a bank account
instead of credit. If someone steals the account # or the merchant screws me over,
there's basically no protections on my debit card, especially if I don't notice it
right away. If you have good enough credit to get a credit card, it's easily worth
the benefits.
If there is a dodgy withdrawal or payment, the bank refunds you and
then use their might and clout and lawyers to chase the miscreant. You
don't pay.
We mostly only use credit cards for transactions when we don't have
the money, e.g. big payments before payday, or for additional services
-- e.g. mine gives me automatic travel insurance whenever I buy travel
tickets with it. So I buy all my airfares and things that way.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
8:46 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 7/1/19 5:01 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
I sold a $3500 car once for cash to a guy
who sold his goods at a booth
at fairs and shows. He received lots and lots of $20 bills in payment,
so that is what he paid me with. I kept the cash instead of depositing
it in the bank and going to an ATM to get cash out.
One day I was counting out some cash and two of the bills felt funny.
This was before a lot of the anti-counterfeiting features in current $20
bills. The bills themselves looked really close to real ones, but the
feel of the paper was wrong.
Maybe for you. I did a group purchase of tickets for a club I am a
member of.? Almost everyone paid me for their tickets paid with checks.
I help organize motorsports events; my expenses are reimbursed with checks.
alan
In every other
country I've visited or lived in -- about 30 or 40 of
them -- banknotes are all different sizes, so that totally blind
people can sort by size if they have a few of them. I daresay the very
skilled can do it by absolute, not relative, size. Sighted people can
and do do it by touch without really thinking about it.
US currency is the most
most seriously counterfeited in the world, due
to being useful almost anywhere. This is why the bills are not very
distinctive - you are supposed to look at them. Most counterfeits are
good, but not good enough, and can (and will) stick out in a batch of
bills - the might just look "funny" or "odd". Have millions of eyes
looking for the counterfeits ever day of the year is actually quite
effective. I once worked at a bank, and the number of bogus bills that
the tellers would get every month was very significant - and most
actually stuck out like a sore thumb!. Paper cheques disappeared in Britain a decade
ago
and are very rare now.
That is mostly the case here as well. Most under-40 people
do not have
a checkbook anymore. In my business, I get maybe two payments per year
with checks - well under 1/10 of a percent of total payments.
My American friends and colleagues over here talk
about US cheque
processing and sending _images_ of cheques to one another, and the
Czechs are incredulous. This is like hearing about carrying letters by
horse-drawn carriage in these parts; this is a technology that never
really happened here and that pretty much no living person has ever
seen.
There are still a few institutions and older folks that still use
checks (like the annoying people that hold up the line in a grocery
store, writing out a check), so the image deposit system is just an
effort to cut down the foot traffic to banks. More convenience for
customers, and less labor costs for banks. It is handy to have, but
really, not many people use it much, simply because getting a paper
check is just a rare occurrence these days.
--
Will
10:01 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 at 17:46, Alan Perry via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I sold a $3500 car once for cash to a guy who sold his
goods at a booth
at fairs and shows. He received lots and lots of $20 bills in payment,
so that is what he paid me with. I kept the cash instead of depositing
it in the bank and going to an ATM to get cash out.
I hear that. I also bought a motorbike this way once. The dealers gave
me a discount "for cash". I was na?ve and thought that meant actual
specie and turned up with ?2000 in notes. The poor salesman nearly had
an unfortunate little personal accident and was fearful his boss would
give him grief for leaving so much in the company safe. He had merely
meant "not for credit" and had expected a banker's draft or the like.
Maybe for you. I did a group purchase of tickets for a
club I am a
member of. Almost everyone paid me for their tickets paid with checks.
I help organize motorsports events; my expenses are reimbursed with checks.
This matches what I've heard.
I suspect that my Czech bank probably lacks any facilities for
processing paper cheques whatsoever. I still used them occasionally in
Britain when I left, circa 2014, but they'd been very rare for ~5
years by then. In the noughties I still used them regularly and caused
some institutions -- e.g. my ISP -- quite serious operational problems
by doing so.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
10:23 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 7/1/19 10:01 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019 at 17:46, Alan Perry via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I had another car that I sold for $24000 where the buyer paid in cash.
The largest denomination in circulation here is the $100 bill (note), so
that was a stack of cash. That went into the bank (after taking some
creative photos with the money). There are small bank branches in
grocery stores here and I deposited the money at one of those kinds of
branches. It was more cash than they were used to dealing with and they
didn't want to take it.
alan
I sold a $3500 car once for cash to a guy who
sold his goods at a booth
at fairs and shows. He received lots and lots of $20 bills in payment,
so that is what he paid me with. I kept the cash instead of depositing
it in the bank and going to an ATM to get cash out.
I hear that. I also bought a
motorbike this way once. The dealers gave
me a discount "for cash". I was na?ve and thought that meant actual
specie and turned up with ?2000 in notes. The poor salesman nearly had
an unfortunate little personal accident and was fearful his boss would
give him grief for leaving so much in the company safe. He had merely
meant "not for credit" and had expected a banker's draft or the like.
10:09 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
Maybe for you. I did a group purchase of tickets for a
club I am a
member of. Almost everyone paid me for their tickets paid with checks.
I help organize motorsports events; my expenses are reimbursed with checks.
Paypal seems to be king for this sort of thing around here.
--
Will
10:41 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 7/1/19 10:09 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
Got one PayPal for the tickets. My daughter does a lot of Venmo.
A few years ago, one of the motorsports events that I help organize used
PayPal. The entry fee was around $1000-2000 (depending on the type of
entry) and I think we got around 50 entries that year. Most of the
competitors pay their entry fee on the last day of the "early entry"
deadline before the price goes up. When that happened, PayPal flagged
the event's account and locked access to the funds in the account. They
kept it locked until after the event was run. There was no reason for
this; the event had been running for almost a decade with no financial
issues. However, there are pre-event expenses that the event has to
cover and, thanks to PayPal, it had no access to the entry fee money for
this. If it were not for member's of the organizing committee loaning
the event money for those expenses, the event would not have happened
that year. So, PayPal (and, by association, any other electronic payment
system) isn't even considered these days.
alan
Maybe for you.
I did a group purchase of tickets for a club I am a
member of. Almost everyone paid me for their tickets paid with checks.
I help organize motorsports events; my expenses are reimbursed with checks.
Paypal
seems to be king for this sort of thing around here.
10:49 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
A few years ago, one of the motorsports events that I
help organize used
PayPal. The entry fee was around $1000-2000 (depending on the type of
entry) and I think we got around 50 entries that year. Most of the
competitors pay their entry fee on the last day of the "early entry"
deadline before the price goes up. When that happened, PayPal flagged
the event's account and locked access to the funds in the account.
Did anyone in the organization warn Paypal of sudden influx of
transactions? This can make a world of difference.
--
Will
29 Jun
29 Jun
5:15 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 06/29/19 06:39, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote (in part):
US currency is very confusing to me. All the notes
seem to be the same
size and colour, so you can't readily sort them.
Some countries also put
Braille dots (besides the different colours).
Does the US have any such plans?
N.
10:51 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 2019-06-29 9:15 a.m., Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote:
On 06/29/19 06:39, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote (in
part):
Canada has had braille dots on its notes.? In late 2011 Canadian notes
switch from cotton/paper to plastic which makes braille dots easy and
durable.? Each denomination of note is also a different colourCanadian
coins are the same denominations as US coins and are mostly the same
size.? In Canada the five cent piece was likely called a nickel because
when the original silver 5 cent piece, that was smaller than a dime, was
replaced by a larger coin of base metal, it was nearly pure nickel.?
Canada also has a 50 cent piece, but like the US they are not circulated
much.? The last time I relieved one in change was 40 years ago when
crossing the international bridge at Cornwall ON. the toll was an even
half dollar increment so when you got change for the toll gates they
gave you 50 cent pieces.? I still have one or two of them.
Paul.
US currency is very confusing to me. All the
notes seem to be the same
size and colour, so you can't readily sort them.
Some countries also put
Braille dots (besides the different colours).?
Does the US have any such plans?
N.
6:57 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
US currency is very confusing to me. All the notes
seem to be the same
size and colour, so you can't readily sort them. I mean, I know
America doesn't believe in helping people when they're sick, but it
wasn't until I visited that I realised you saved up particular hatred
for the blind and partially-sighted and went out of your way to make
life more difficult for them.
USA makes a pretense of accommodating disabilities, but is actually pretty
hostile to the disabled.
The "new" paper currency, that is s'posedly good for blind people has
slightly different shades of the same colors.
USA paper currency used to be the size of punchcards. So, if one were to
have a LOT of it, you could use the same trays, and counting machines,
etc. Do you suppose that Hollerith had a lot of paper currency?
"If Hollerith were alive today, how many birthdays would he have had?"
requires being aware that 1900 was NOT a leap year.
You use nicknames for 2 denominations which most of us
foreigners
don't know -- I still don't know which is a "nickel" (which is a metal
to me) and which is a "dime" (which is a Swedish chocolate-covered
sweet bar, of which I'm very fond but can't eat because I'm
overweight).
A "Dime" is one tenth of a dollar. Or ten cents. Or $10 worth of drugs.
The coin is 17.91mm diameter, and the smallest coin in circulation.
A "Nickel" is five cents. or $5 worth of drugs.
The coin is 21.21mm, and is between a penny and a quarter in size.
"Silver Dollar pancakes" are actually larger than a silver dollar, but
nobody complains.
And the base unit is a cent, but you call them
"pennies", the base
unit of _my_ old country's currency, and you didn't even put the
symbol into ASCII.
Pennies used to be copper. Now, they are mostly zinc, due to
copper
costing more than a penny. But, they managed to maintain the copper
color. During WW2, pennies were briefly made out of steel.
6 decades ago, pennies said "One Cent" on the back, with pictures of
wheat; then they changed to a picture of the Lincoln memorial, which is at
the end of Memorial bridge in Washington, DC.
Very weird.
Our parent country taught us to make
currency weird, and we have carried
on the tradition.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
1 Jul
1 Jul
4:17 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019 at 15:57, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
USA makes a pretense of accommodating disabilities, but is actually pretty
hostile to the disabled.
:-(
The "new" paper currency, that is
s'posedly good for blind people has
slightly different shades of the same colors.
(!)
I googled pictures. Amazing.
I am reminded of a famed quote from TV snooker commentator Ted Lowe,
describing a position of the balls on the table:
"Steve is going for the pink ball - and for those of you who are
watching in black and white, the pink is next to the green."
Snooker is a cue/ball game a bit like pool but much harder and on a
far bigger table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snooker
A "Dime" is one tenth of a dollar. Or ten
cents. Or $10 worth of drugs.
The coin is 17.91mm diameter, and the smallest coin in circulation.
A "Nickel" is five cents. or $5 worth of drugs.
The coin is 21.21mm, and is between a penny and a quarter in size.
I'm broadly aware but I can never remember which is 5? and which is 10?.
Thanks for the info on drug purchasing, in case I ever need that. :-D
"Silver Dollar pancakes" are actually larger
than a silver dollar, but
nobody complains.
:-D
Pennies used to be copper. Now, they are mostly zinc,
due to copper
costing more than a penny. But, they managed to maintain the copper
color. During WW2, pennies were briefly made out of steel.
I think many "copper" or "brass" coins around the world now are steel
with a coating -- it's cheaper.
Our parent country taught us to make currency weird,
and we have carried
on the tradition.
Yeah, but we reformed and decimalised it all about 50y ago, and now,
as an olde pharte, all the old units and multiples are arcane and
weird even to me. I have only the dimmest memories of seeing shillings
and things like that. I barely understand feet and inches and don't
really grasp pounds, ounces and so on at all. I have never used
Fahrenheit.
I recently bought Dr Spock's famed baby book and have discovered to my
dismay that all the units in it are incomprehensible. :-(
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
2:10 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
Now that the dollar coin is a different color than the quarter, they don't
end up mixed. But, the replacement of the Washington quarter, that even
included when they were silver, with the commemorative quarters means they
are now all different designs, and the Susan B. Anthony dollar coins no
longer have more of a difference of appearance from quarters than a
Canadian quarter.
Think of the "dime" as a "deci"
"nickel and dime" is used to mean small and irrelevant.
"nickel" and "dime" are also slang for $5 and $10 respectively, except
in
casinos, because while the casinos still had coin slot machines they had
nickel ones, and did NOT confuse those with $5 chips. But, without the
little paper-cup bucket of coins, what's the appeal of scanning a card,
and then, if the machine malfunctioned and you won, it prints out a piece
of paper to take to the cashier cage?
A
"Dime" is one tenth of a dollar. Or ten cents. Or $10 worth of drugs.
The coin is 17.91mm diameter, and the smallest coin in circulation.
A "Nickel" is five cents. or $5 worth of drugs.
The coin is 21.21mm, and is between a penny and a quarter in size.
I'm broadly
aware but I can never remember which is 5? and which is 10?. Yeah, but we reformed and decimalised it all about 50y
ago, and now,
as an olde pharte, all the old units and multiples are arcane and
weird even to me. I have only the dimmest memories of seeing shillings
and things like that. I barely understand feet and inches and don't
really grasp pounds, ounces and so on at all. I have never used
Fahrenheit.
Oh, but we are proud of our unremembered heritage, and fiercely resist
change. We still use Fahrenheit. And efforts to "go metric" have made
little headway.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:23 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
Not every thing makes sense to go metric. Clearly bold sizes are better off in fractional
sizes. Also for wrenches. I have to have 13, 14 and 15 mm wrenches. A 9/16 would have
covered the entire range. I have a spot on my car that I need a 23mm offset box wrench.
What a pain.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2019 2:10 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of
an IBM 5100 using OCR
Now that the dollar coin is a different color than the quarter, they don't
end up mixed. But, the replacement of the Washington quarter, that even
included when they were silver, with the commemorative quarters means they
are now all different designs, and the Susan B. Anthony dollar coins no
longer have more of a difference of appearance from quarters than a
Canadian quarter.
Think of the "dime" as a "deci"
"nickel and dime" is used to mean small and irrelevant.
"nickel" and "dime" are also slang for $5 and $10 respectively, except
in
casinos, because while the casinos still had coin slot machines they had
nickel ones, and did NOT confuse those with $5 chips. But, without the
little paper-cup bucket of coins, what's the appeal of scanning a card,
and then, if the machine malfunctioned and you won, it prints out a piece
of paper to take to the cashier cage?
A
"Dime" is one tenth of a dollar. Or ten cents. Or $10 worth of drugs.
The coin is 17.91mm diameter, and the smallest coin in circulation.
A "Nickel" is five cents. or $5 worth of drugs.
The coin is 21.21mm, and is between a penny and a quarter in size.
I'm broadly
aware but I can never remember which is 5? and which is 10?. Yeah, but we reformed and decimalised it all about 50y
ago, and now,
as an olde pharte, all the old units and multiples are arcane and
weird even to me. I have only the dimmest memories of seeing shillings
and things like that. I barely understand feet and inches and don't
really grasp pounds, ounces and so on at all. I have never used
Fahrenheit.
Oh, but we are proud of our unremembered heritage, and fiercely resist
change. We still use Fahrenheit. And efforts to "go metric" have made
little headway.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
2:42 p.m.
New subject: STOP IT : "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
ENOUGH ALREADY! Surely there must be better lists to carry on this
conversation.
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019, dwight via cctalk wrote:
Not every thing makes sense to go metric. Clearly bold
sizes are better off in fractional sizes. Also for wrenches. I have to have 13, 14 and 15
mm wrenches. A 9/16 would have covered the entire range. I have a spot on my car that I
need a 23mm offset box wrench. What a pain.
Dwight
________________________________
From: cctalk <cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org> on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2019 2:10 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of
an IBM 5100 using OCR
Now that the dollar coin is a different color than the quarter, they don't
end up mixed. But, the replacement of the Washington quarter, that even
included when they were silver, with the commemorative quarters means they
are now all different designs, and the Susan B. Anthony dollar coins no
longer have more of a difference of appearance from quarters than a
Canadian quarter.
Think of the "dime" as a "deci"
"nickel and dime" is used to mean small and irrelevant.
"nickel" and "dime" are also slang for $5 and $10 respectively,
except in
casinos, because while the casinos still had coin slot machines they had
nickel ones, and did NOT confuse those with $5 chips. But, without the
little paper-cup bucket of coins, what's the appeal of scanning a card,
and then, if the machine malfunctioned and you won, it prints out a piece
of paper to take to the cashier cage?
A
"Dime" is one tenth of a dollar. Or ten cents. Or $10 worth of drugs.
The coin is 17.91mm diameter, and the smallest coin in circulation.
A "Nickel" is five cents. or $5 worth of drugs.
The coin is 21.21mm, and is between a penny and a quarter in size.
I'm broadly
aware but I can never remember which is 5? and which is 10?. Yeah, but we reformed and decimalised it all
about 50y ago, and now,
as an olde pharte, all the old units and multiples are arcane and
weird even to me. I have only the dimmest memories of seeing shillings
and things like that. I barely understand feet and inches and don't
really grasp pounds, ounces and so on at all. I have never used
Fahrenheit.
Oh, but we are proud of our unremembered heritage, and fiercely resist
change. We still use Fahrenheit. And efforts to "go metric" have made
little headway.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
3:11 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
Oh, but we are proud of our unremembered heritage, and
fiercely resist
change. We still use Fahrenheit. And efforts to "go metric" have made
little headway.
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019, dwight wrote:
Not every thing makes sense to go metric. Clearly bold
sizes are better
off in fractional sizes. Also for wrenches. I have to have 13, 14 and 15
mm wrenches. A 9/16 would have covered the entire range. I have a spot
on my car that I need a 23mm offset box wrench. What a pain.
I find that an SAE set of wrenches and a metric set of wrenches tend to
need similar quantities.
German cars switched from 14mm to 13mm heads for 8mm bolts about 5
decades ago.
Japanese use 12mm heads on 8mm bolts, and 13mm and 15mm are rare on
Japanese cars.
Unless you are dealing with vintage stuff - 10,13,15,17,19 for German
cars; 10,12,14,17,19 for Japanese cars
16mm, 18mm seem rare. Whitworth is finally rare
Yes, once you get above an inch, sizes are less standardized.
9/16 doesn't cover everything. It could, if you provided appropriate
punishment for any use of a 17/32 or 19/32 bolt head.
1/4-20 bolts use 7/16" heads, which is about 11mm. But lately, I have
encountered some 1/4-20 with 10mm heads! (Chinese specification change)
2:47 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Jul 1, 2019, at 2:10 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Think of the "dime" as a "deci"
"nickel and dime" is used to mean small and irrelevant.
"nickel" and "dime" are also slang for $5 and $10 respectively,
except in casinos, because while the casinos still had coin slot machines
In terms of denominations that the US used, originally there was no nickel. There was a
half-dime to represent $0.05. It was a silver coin half the size of the dime. The mint
changed over to nickel because the half-dime was too small. The original nickel was
almost identical to the $5 gold piece of the time, so with some simple chemistry
(basically gold plating the nickel) you could pass it off as a $5 gold piece. The mint
changed the design of the nickel so as to make the subterfuge more obvious to the causal
observer.
US coinage is littered with denominations that are no longer used:
half-cent ($0.005) copper
?large? cent ($0.01 but the approximate size of a quarter but of copper instead of
silver)
2 cent piece (copper)
3 cent piece (nickel)
half-dime (silver)
20 cent piece (silver)
And then of course there the gold coins:
$1 (about the size of a dime)
$5 (about the size of a nickel)
$10 (about the size of a quarter)
$20 (about the size of a half dollar)
$50 (rare and about the size of a silver dollar)
Each coin (be it silver or gold) was intended to approximately represent the value of the
metal in the coin (that is a $10 gold coin was supposed to contain roughly $10 of gold).
I believe at the time an ounce of silver was $1.25 and I believe gold was $32/oz. These
are of course troy ounces - 12 troy ounces to a pound versus 16 avoirdupois ounce to a
pound.
TTFN - Guy
A
"Dime" is one tenth of a dollar. Or ten cents. Or $10 worth of drugs.
The coin is 17.91mm diameter, and the smallest coin in circulation.
A "Nickel" is five cents. or $5 worth of drugs.
The coin is 21.21mm, and is between a penny and a quarter in size.
I'm broadly
aware but I can never remember which is 5? and which is 10?. 
11:55 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
From: Fred Cisin
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2019 6:57 AM
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> US currency is very confusing to me. All the notes
seem to be the same size
> and colour, so you can't readily sort them. I mean, I know America doesn't
> believe in helping people when they're sick, but it wasn't until I visited
> that I realised you saved up particular hatred for the blind and
> partially-sighted and went out of your way to make life more difficult for
> them.
USA paper currency used to be the size of punchcards.
So, if one were to
have a LOT of it, you could use the same trays, and counting machines,
etc. Do you suppose that Hollerith had a lot of paper currency?
"If Hollerith were alive today, how many birthdays would he have had?"
requires being aware that 1900 was NOT a leap year.
Actually, Hollerith designed his card that size precisely so that storage
drawers for bank notes could be used.
> You use nicknames for 2 denominations which most
of us foreigners don't know
> -- I still don't know which is a "nickel" (which is a metal to me) and
which
> is a "dime" (which is a Swedish chocolate-covered sweet bar, of which
I'm
> very fond but can't eat because I'm overweight).
A "Dime" is one tenth of a dollar. Or ten
cents. Or $10 worth of drugs.
The coin is 17.91mm diameter, and the smallest coin in circulation.
The name comes from an old French coin (pre-Republic)
A "Nickel" is five cents. or $5 worth of
drugs.
The coin is 21.21mm, and is between a penny and a quarter in size.
The $0.05 coin is a nickel-copper alloy. At one time, an easy way to
distinguish between US and Canadian nickels was that the nickel content in the
Canadian coin was higher, enough so that a magnet would pick them up.
In the 19th Century, $0.05 was a silver-copper alloy coin like the $0.10 dime,
$0.25 quarter, and $0.50 half dollar. (The silver dollar was something like
0.997 pure silver.) There was a nickel-copper $0.03 coin called, astonishingly
enough, a nickel.
"Silver Dollar pancakes" are actually larger
than a silver dollar, but
nobody complains.
> And the base unit is a cent, but you call them
"pennies", the base
> unit of _my_ old country's currency, and you didn't even put the
> symbol into ASCII.
Yes, "cent" because they were $0.01. "Penny" because that was what
the small
coins were called. There was no need for ha'farthings, farthings, ha'pennies
in the Brave New Decimal Currency!
Pennies used to be copper. Now, they are mostly zinc,
due to copper
costing more than a penny. But, they managed to maintain the copper
color. During WW2, pennies were briefly made out of steel.
Technically, they were bronze, a copper-tin alloy.
In 1943, at the height of the war, zinc-coated steel pennies were issued.
In 1944, there was a return to bronze, but the coins were a different color
because expended artillery shells were melted down for the metal, and had a
higher tin content.
6 decades ago, pennies said "One Cent" on
the back, with pictures of
wheat; then they changed to a picture of the Lincoln memorial, which is at
the end of Memorial bridge in Washington, DC.
From 1909 until 1959, the Lincoln penny had the wheat
ears.
(The nifty thing about the image of the Lincoln Memorial is that on new enough
pennies one can see the statue of Lincoln in the center of the Memorial.)
Sometime in the 1970s, IIRC, pennies became copper (or bronze) coated aluminum.
Pennies will never stop being minted--the members of Congress representing the
state of Illinois would not stand for it.
Prior to 1909, for I forget how long and I'm not going to look it up, the
obverse of the penny had an image of an "Indian" head--which was actually the
image of the sculptor's daughter wearing a feather headdress.
OB vious: Someone was an avid coin collector as a kid.
Rich
10:54 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
> USA paper currency used to be the size of
punchcards. So, if one were to
> have a LOT of it, you could use the same trays, and counting machines,
> etc. Do you suppose that Hollerith had a lot of paper currency?
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
Actually, Hollerith designed his card that size
precisely so that storage
drawers for bank notes could be used.
I deliberately inverted that, in a futile attempt at humor.
Pennies used
to be copper. Now, they are mostly zinc, due to copper
costing more than a penny. But, they managed to maintain the copper
color. During WW2, pennies were briefly made out of steel.
Technically, they were
bronze, a copper-tin alloy.
Sometime in the 1970s, IIRC, pennies became copper (or bronze) coated aluminum. Pennies will never stop being minted--the members of
Congress representing the
state of Illinois would not stand for it.
In spite of costing more to make them than they are worth.
2 Jul
2 Jul
10:22 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 7/1/2019 11:54 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
The same could be said for Congresmen. :)
Pennies will
never stop being minted--the members of Congress
representing the
state of Illinois would not stand for it.
In spite of costing more to make them than they are worth.
29 Jun
29 Jun
9:17 a.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/29/19 3:39 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
You use nicknames for 2 denominations which most of us
foreigners
don't know -- I still don't know which is a "nickel" (which is a metal
to me) and which is a "dime" (which is a Swedish chocolate-covered
sweet bar, of which I'm very fond but can't eat because I'm
overweight).
There we share a culture with the British (e.g. "tanner", "quid",
"nicker", "guinea").
However,I'll also say that younger Americans are unfamiliar with older
US slang for various denominations. For example, "bit" = 12.5 cents
hails back to the Spanish custom of dividing the Real (milled
dollar--wonder how many young Spaniards know about that?) into eight
pieces, hence, "pieces of eight". So "two bits" is a quarter dollar
(our term "dollar" hails back to the Bohemian "Joachimsthaler").
Fin = 5 dollars, sawbuck = 10 dollars, double-sawbuck = 20 dollars, frog
= 50 dollars, C-note = 100 dollars...
--Chuck
30 Jun
30 Jun
10:37 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
This is interesting. How long ago was that out of curiosity? I keep
thinking to ask my bank if they have any dollar coins or half dollar rolls
(probably doing them a favor by trading for more common currency) same with
$2 bills. Might as well get them before they're really out of circulation
unless that already happened.
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:47 PM Electronics Plus via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Just for fun, I went to the bank and bought about
$1000 in half dollar and
dollar coins. My son collects them, and we went through them all. We did
find some silver half dollars. The ones we are not keeping now go to
whatever fast food or corner store is needed. Some like them, some hate
them! Most tell me they have not seen them in years.
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of TeoZ via
cctalk
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 2:36 PM
To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of
an
IBM 5100 using OCR
I have not seen any half dollars in circulation in some time. They are
just
too big to fit in people skinny jeans these days.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 3:18 PM
To: Fred Cisin via cctalk
Subject: Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the
ROM of
an
IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>> I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob
on the desk and asked what
>> it was for.
The big failure of the Susan B. Anthony coin was that it was about the
same size (slightly different shape) as a quarter-dollar coin, causing
people to mistake them as such on occasion.
It was *extremely* unpopular.
FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
circulation.
--Chuck
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
10:50 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
I think that half-dollar and small dollar are still officially in
circulation. You might have to ask your bank to ORDER.
I think that they stopped minting half dollar in 2002, when they decided
that they had enough inventory to meet foreseeable needs.
Half-dollar would presumably be all Kennedy. Walking Liberty is now R at RE.
Small dollar would be commemorative presidents, with some random Susan B.
Anthony, Scajewea, Native American small dollars mixed in. But, don't you
want to collact EVERY president? :-)
Cartwheels (large dollar) are not in circulation much.
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
This is interesting. How long ago was that out of
curiosity? I keep
thinking to ask my bank if they have any dollar coins or half dollar rolls
(probably doing them a favor by trading for more common currency) same with
$2 bills. Might as well get them before they're really out of circulation
unless that already happened.
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:47 PM Electronics Plus via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Just for fun, I went to the bank and bought about $1000 in half dollar and
> dollar coins. My son collects them, and we went through them all. We did
> find some silver half dollars. The ones we are not keeping now go to
> whatever fast food or corner store is needed. Some like them, some hate
> them! Most tell me they have not seen them in years.
>
> Cindy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of TeoZ via
> cctalk
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 2:36 PM
> To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the
ROM of an
> IBM 5100 using OCR
>
> I have not seen any half dollars in circulation in some time. They are
> just
> too big to fit in people skinny jeans these days.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 3:18 PM
> To: Fred Cisin via cctalk
> Subject: Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering
the ROM of
> an
> IBM 5100 using OCR
>
> On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>>>> I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what
>>>> it was for.
>
> The big failure of the Susan B. Anthony coin was that it was about the
> same size (slightly different shape) as a quarter-dollar coin, causing
> people to mistake them as such on occasion.
>
> It was *extremely* unpopular.
>
> FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
> bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
> the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
> circulation.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
10:57 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
I have US half dollar coins (JFK) trom 2017, and maybe later they were in
proof sets, unc sets, and banks should have them for general circulation.
On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 12:50 AM Fred Cisin via cctalk <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
wrote:
I think that half-dollar and small dollar are still
officially in
circulation. You might have to ask your bank to ORDER.
I think that they stopped minting half dollar in 2002, when they decided
that they had enough inventory to meet foreseeable needs.
Half-dollar would presumably be all Kennedy. Walking Liberty is now R at RE.
Small dollar would be commemorative presidents, with some random Susan B.
Anthony, Scajewea, Native American small dollars mixed in. But, don't you
want to collact EVERY president? :-)
Cartwheels (large dollar) are not in circulation much.
On Mon, 1 Jul 2019, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
This is interesting. How long ago was that out of
curiosity? I keep
thinking to ask my bank if they have any dollar coins or half dollar
rolls
(probably doing them a favor by trading for more
common currency) same
with
$2 bills. Might as well get them before
they're really out of circulation
unless that already happened.
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:47 PM Electronics Plus via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
> Just for fun, I went to the bank and bought about $1000 in half dollar
and
> dollar coins. My son collects them, and we
went through them all. We did
> find some silver half dollars. The ones we are not keeping now go to
> whatever fast food or corner store is needed. Some like them, some hate
> them! Most tell me they have not seen them in years.
>
> Cindy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of TeoZ
via
> cctalk
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 2:36 PM
> To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the
ROM of an
> IBM 5100 using OCR
>
> I have not seen any half dollars in circulation in some time. They are
> just
> too big to fit in people skinny jeans these days.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 3:18 PM
> To: Fred Cisin via cctalk
> Subject: Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering
the ROM
of
> an
> IBM 5100 using OCR
>
> On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>>>> I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what
>>>> it was for.
>
> The big failure of the Susan B. Anthony coin was that it was about the
> same size (slightly different shape) as a quarter-dollar coin, causing
> people to mistake them as such on occasion.
>
> It was *extremely* unpopular.
>
> FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
> bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
> the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
> circulation.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
10:52 p.m.
New subject: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
The banks I go to usually have a pretty good selection. Every once in a
while I'll get a surprise from a teller who has been saving something
special for me for a few days. If asked nicely, some tellers will watch for
things for you.
On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 12:37 AM John Herron via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
This is interesting. How long ago was that out of
curiosity? I keep
thinking to ask my bank if they have any dollar coins or half dollar rolls
(probably doing them a favor by trading for more common currency) same with
$2 bills. Might as well get them before they're really out of circulation
unless that already happened.
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:47 PM Electronics Plus via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Just for fun, I went to the bank and bought about
$1000 in half dollar
and
dollar coins. My son collects them, and we went
through them all. We did
find some silver half dollars. The ones we are not keeping now go to
whatever fast food or corner store is needed. Some like them, some hate
them! Most tell me they have not seen them in years.
Cindy
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of TeoZ
via
cctalk
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 2:36 PM
To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of
an
IBM 5100 using OCR
I have not seen any half dollars in circulation in some time. They are
just
too big to fit in people skinny jeans these days.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2019 3:18 PM
To: Fred Cisin via cctalk
Subject: Re: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the
ROM of
an
IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>> I saw this half-dollar sized plastic fob
on the desk and asked what
>> it was for.
The big failure of the Susan B. Anthony coin was that it was about the
same size (slightly different shape) as a quarter-dollar coin, causing
people to mistake them as such on occasion.
It was *extremely* unpopular.
FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
circulation.
--Chuck
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
28 Jun
28 Jun
12:40 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On 6/28/19 12:18 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
circulation.
For those who have never seen a Kennedy half-dollar, it's a coin that,
according to my pocket tape rule is about 1 1/8 inch or 29 mm in
diameter, featuring a profile of JFK on one side and the Great Seal of
the US on the reverse.
--Chuck
1:50 p.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 1:40 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On 6/28/19 12:18 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:
Yea, I'm just the right age to have seen them in circulation and have it as
a unit of measure for "just bigger than an inch". Sorry for the crazy
measurement...
Warner
FWIW, I just checked my "loose change" container that sits atop my
bedroom dresser. There were two Kennedy half-dollars--one from 1968 and
the other from 1983. I suspect that a great many are still in
circulation.
For those who have never seen a Kennedy half-dollar, it's a coin that,
according to my pocket tape rule is about 1 1/8 inch or 29 mm in
diameter, featuring a profile of JFK on one side and the Great Seal of
the US on the reverse.
29 Jun
29 Jun
3:53 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 22:50, Warner Losh via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Yea, I'm just the right age to have seen them in
circulation and have it as
a unit of measure for "just bigger than an inch". Sorry for the crazy
measurement...
It's fine really. It's provoked an interesting if offtopic conversation.
I was thrown because I'd never even heard of one before, I think.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
3:52 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019 at 18:57, Fred Cisin via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Oh, FAR FAR FAR less than 5%.
*Chuckle*
Most residents of USA haven't seen a half dollar
or "50 cent piece" in
decades. They are as much of an oddity as the $2 bill. They are
nominally still in circulation, most recent being JFK, but I think that
they stopped making them in 2002, and there are federal vaults full of
uncirculated pre-2002 coins. Most recent has a portrait of Kennedy.
They are 30.61mm diameter, which is the largest relatively recent
USA coin (not counting the long discontinued 38.1mm SILVER DOLLAR)
Oh!
Well, I thought I'd never seen one in my 3 visits to the USA.
You could have just ASSUMED THAT IT WOULD BE
logarithmically between a
quarter[dollar] (24.26mm) and a dollar coin (26.5mm). That would be
completely WRONG, unless you use the 38.1mm ancient "silver dollar", but
hardly a problem.
Oh heavens no. Coinage almost never makes that kind of sense. Nor banknotes.
When I was a child I was shown an old British ?5 note. As in, from my
parents' childhood. Not kept as a souvenir but lost somewhere as it
was a very significant amount of money.
It was _vast_ to my child's eyes. It looked approximately the size of
a pillowcase or something. It looked like linen, not money. More like
a joke teatowel printed with a spare, fancy currency-like design I'd
never seen.
It was scored with deep lines as you had to fold them into eighths or
something to put them into your wallet.
Even as a kid this briefly excited me with the notion that pre-WW2
banknotes scaled for area by value, and I had visions of buying
furniture or something with ?20 notes the size of bedsheets, or ?50
notes that needed to be unrolled outdoors like a carpet for
inspection...
Of course it wasn't *really...* Sadly...
"50 pence coin" would be CLOSE ENOUGH.
Aha!
Actually, for THIS purpose, "large coin" is
as accurate as you need.
Just as I am not at all familiar with British currency, that hasn't
dampened my appreciation of British TV, such as Doctor Who and a variety
of Brit-coms.
:-D
"Silver dollar" used to be a large coin.
(38.1mm) It was the standard for
casinos. When it was discontinued (1935), the casinos started to mint
their own chips/tokens as a replacement. There was a brief attempt to
revive the silver dollar in 1971 with the "Eisenhower Dollar".
It is quite rare that you will encounter one of the "large dollars".
This I had never heard of. Thanks.
The Susan B Anthony dollar (1979-1981)
http://www.smalldollars.com/
was never widely accepted, mostly because it was MUCH MUCH too close to a
quarter in size. (26.5mm V 24.26mm) Different edge milling is NOT
ENOUGH. It COULD have been widely accepted, if the gubmint were to have
given a tax incentive to have video games that took a quarter to provide
five games for a "Carter Quarter"; and the "quantity sale" would
have
been so profitable that the tax incentive would only have to have been
short term.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
It was later replaced with the Sacajewa dollar. Same problem.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
Then there was a commemorative series (gold colored) of presidents of USA.
Change of COLOR is NOT ENOUGH.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
Czech coinage does something unique in my experience.
The _small_ denominations are silver. The larger ones are copper/brass/whatever.
This is the reverse of I think every other country I've ever visited.
And, I understand that the gubmint is planning an
"American innovation"
commemorative series. We are far too arrogant to learn from our mistakes.
It will be quite rare that you will encounter one.
:-(
But, the states of USA commemorative quarters were so
popular that they
followed that with national parks commemorative quarters.
The quarter is the largest USA coin that you are likely to encounter
in circulation.
It's the biggest I've seen, which is in part why a half-dollar threw me.
--
Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
7:09 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
> "Silver dollar" used to be a large coin.
(38.1mm) It was the standard for
> casinos. When it was discontinued (1935), the casinos started to mint
> their own chips/tokens as a replacement. There was a brief attempt to
> revive the silver dollar in 1971 with the "Eisenhower Dollar".
> It is quite rare that you will encounter one of the "large dollars".
On Sat, 29 Jun 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
This I had never heard of. Thanks.
Go to Las Vegas, and find one of the few casinos that still has coin clot
machines (Circus-Circus? El Cortez?) (where's the excitement in scanning a
credit card, and winning a piece of paper to take to the cashier's cage?),
and buy a dollar coin. It is the casino's imitation of a silver dollar.
Put it into a slot machine, and you will never see it again. Unless the
machine malfunctions and spits out one or more into a bowl that is
optimized for making loud noise.
9:13 a.m.
New subject: OT: "half-dollar"/"50 cent piece" Was: Recovering the ROM of an IBM 5100 using OCR
Washington State Ferries still use 50 cent pieces and 2 dollar bills a lot.
After years of receiving them as change, I finally asked why? The
reason is they reduce the number of hand movements by one half. If
you're sitting in a kiosk all day dolling out change, it can reduce
repetitive wrist/elbow ailments.
On 6/28/19 9:57 AM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
> I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what
> it was for.
On Fri, 28 Jun 2019, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
If I may just say -- only about 5% of humanity
know how big that is. I
don't. I don't even know if a half a dollar is a note or a coin, and
that's without getting extra-pedantic and pointing out that about a
dozen countries call their currencies the "dollar".
:-(
Oh, FAR FAR FAR less than 5%.
Most residents of USA haven't seen a half dollar or "50 cent piece" in
decades.? They are as much of an oddity as the $2 bill.? They are
nominally still in circulation, most recent being JFK, but I think that
they stopped making them in 2002, and there are federal vaults full of
uncirculated pre-2002 coins.? Most recent has a portrait of Kennedy.
They are 30.61mm diameter, which is the largest relatively recent USA
coin (not counting the long discontinued 38.1mm SILVER DOLLAR)
You could have just ASSUMED THAT IT WOULD BE logarithmically between a
quarter[dollar] (24.26mm) and a dollar coin (26.5mm).? That would be
completely WRONG, unless you use the 38.1mm ancient "silver dollar", but
hardly a problem.
"50 pence coin" would be CLOSE ENOUGH.
Actually, for THIS purpose, "large coin" is as accurate as you need.
Just as I am not at all familiar with British currency, that hasn't
dampened my appreciation of British TV, such as Doctor Who and a variety
of Brit-coms.
"Silver dollar" used to be a large coin. (38.1mm)? It was the standard
for casinos.? When it was discontinued (1935), the casinos started to
mint their own chips/tokens as a replacement.? There was a brief attempt
to revive the silver dollar in 1971 with the "Eisenhower Dollar".
It is quite rare that you will encounter one of the "large dollars".
The Susan B Anthony dollar (1979-1981)
http://www.smalldollars.com/
was never widely accepted, mostly because it was MUCH MUCH too close to
a quarter in size.? (26.5mm V 24.26mm)? Different edge milling is NOT
ENOUGH.? It COULD have been widely accepted, if the gubmint were to have
given a tax incentive to have video games that took a quarter to provide
five games for a "Carter Quarter"; and the "quantity sale" would have
been so profitable that the tax incentive would only have to have been
short term.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
It was later replaced with the Sacajewa dollar.? Same problem.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
Then there was a commemorative series (gold colored) of presidents of
USA. Change of COLOR is NOT ENOUGH.
It is quite rare that you will encounter one.
And, I understand that the gubmint is planning an "American innovation"
commemorative series.? We are far too arrogant to learn from our mistakes.
It will be quite rare that you will encounter one.
But, the states of USA commemorative quarters were so popular that they
followed that with national parks commemorative quarters.
The quarter is the largest USA coin that you are likely to encounter in
circulation.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred???????????? cisin at xenosoft.com
28 Jun
28 Jun
11:39 a.m.
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 2:16 AM Liam Proven via cctalk <
cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 17:21, Warner Losh via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
It's an *incredible* shame that no technology has yet been devised -- let
alone one that might be at your /very fingertips/ -- for finding out what
on earth this strange form of currency might look like, or how big it might
be.
I saw this
half-dollar sized plastic fob on the desk and asked what it was for.
If I may just say -- only about 5% of humanity know how big that is. I
don't. I don't even know if a half a dollar is a note or a coin, and
that's without getting extra-pedantic and pointing out that about a
dozen countries call their currencies the "dollar".
:-(
Absolutely agreed.
- Josh
27 Jun
27 Jun
7:45 a.m.
On 6/27/19 7:30 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
Even if one didn't want to get into the innards of the 5100 too deeply,
one could avoid the ambiguity of reading the screen photographically by
intercepting the sweep and video signals.
Lots of ways to skin this cat.
--Chuck
From: Liam
Proven
This is *epic*.
Indeed. I was blown away by the complexity of his technique for reading
the digits.
I can't believe there wasn't a much easier technique, though, e.g. using a
logic analyzer and a small program to read through the ROS!
Perhaps the challenge of doing it his way entertained him, though, like
George Mallory's famous line about climbing Everest. 
8:10 a.m.
On Thu, 27 Jun 2019, Noel Chiappa wrote:
That's what I have suggested him, but he wanted to test his algorithm on
this project, and all I can say is wow :-)
The "ordinary" way of reading the Executable ROS contents is to put the
machine into single-step mode and press RESTART. This effectively enables
access to the ROS contents via the address and data bus on the backplane.
You then force the upper address bits from outside (it's an open-collector
bus), i.e. in increments of 1024 bytes, and sample the 1024 byte block
From: Liam
Proven
This is *epic*.
Indeed. I was blown away by the complexity of his technique for reading
the digits.
I can't believe there wasn't a much easier technique, though, e.g. using a
logic analyzer and a small program to read through the ROS! from the data bus along with the lowest 10 address
bits. The caveat is
that the display controller will be enabled and permanently
accesses the first
1024 bytes of the memory for the screen display.
I had read the contents of my 5110 Executable ROS modules just like Tom,
but I used normal image post-processing and OCR - all that many years ago
and therefore with a lot of manual work involved ;-) But that was
successful at the end and lead to a functional 5110 emulator.
Christian
Perhaps the challenge of doing it his way entertained him, though, like
George Mallory's famous line about climbing Everest.
Noel
1766
days inactive
1771
days old
73 comments
34 participants
participants (34)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
aperry＠snowmoose.com -
barythrin＠gmail.com -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cc＠informatik.uni-stuttgart.de -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
classiccmp＠crash.com -
classiccmp＠earthlink.net -
couryhouse＠aol.com -
cramcram＠gmail.com -
cym224＠gmail.com -
derschjo＠gmail.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
ed＠groenenberg.net -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
ethan＠757.org -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
imp＠bsdimp.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mcquiggi＠me.com -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
nf6x＠nf6x.net -
pat＠vax11.net -
phb.hfx＠gmail.com -
RichA＠livingcomputers.org -
sales＠elecplus.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
turing＠shaw.ca -
useddec＠gmail.com -
wdonzelli＠gmail.com