8 Oct
2020
8 Oct
'20
12:11 p.m.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2020 11:29:43 -0700
From: Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Remote job submission from PDP-11
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 11:04 AM Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
does Unibus
cycles to another device on behalf of the host. The
idea is to offload operations so the host can ask for block
transfers and the KMC does the individual character I/O operations needed.
My first job at DEC was to release the KMC-11 Programmer's Tools
support for RSX-11.
(I didn't write them from scratch, two other engineers did that, but
I did do final debug and QA)
We provided two firmware kit products; the CommIOP-DUP and DZ, which
controlled the DUP-11 and DZ-11 respectively.
The KMC-11 could do NPR bus transfers to/from the devices, and the
CommIOP-DUP firmware could do Bisync or X.25 type framing so that you
got an RSX-11 driver with a packet interface, vs byte at a
time. The CommIO-DZ firmware provided various customizable state
driven things as you might want for a line driven terminal
concentrator. I'm pretty sure the packages came with the "source"
code, so you could customize it if you could understand it.
The DMC-11 did DDMCP support and was basically a KMC with ROM in the
control store. And it did use that external connector to the
proprietary network interface card, DMC-11DA.
In later years, I wrote and released a KMC Tools package for
VMS-11. That came with a VMS DMA LP-11 line printer driver I authored.
I don't remember if the CommIOP tools were supported. Some VMS
engineers didn't like these products. (another story)
(That didn't stop the Lab products guys in Marlboro from using them
for their applications)
There was a later version called the KMC-11B which doubled the memory
and probably ran faster too. It was the same board as the DMP-11
product which was an improved version of the DMC-11.
These were quad Unibus boards. In the Q bus world, there was a 6502
based I/O processor card developed (outside of Networks) (as one-chip
micros became available) as well.
I have a KMC-11 Programmer's Manual here... I think you'll need a
print set to figure out that connector.
Dave.
> On Oct 7, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk
<cctalk at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
I was curious about this DEC M8704 DMS11-DA that sold cheap a few days
ago. It has eight SMC COM5025 "Multi-Protocol Universal Synchronous
Receiver/Transmitter USYNR/T" chips:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373243388363
Apparently it can't do anything on its own. It needs to be connected
to a UNIBUS through a companion KMC11 processor board, which might not
be too common if someone wanted to put together a working
configuration.
That model number isn't familiar.
A KMC-11 is simply a microprocessor that sits on the Unibus and
That said, it clearly is not correct that "it can't do anything
on its
own". The KMC-11 reaches into the device via its Unibus
CSRs. If you can find a description of its operation, or reverse
engineer it, you can clearly write a device driver for it that
doesn't rely on a KMC-11.
paul
Well it does appear that M8704 DMS11-DA "can't do anything on its own"
directly through the UNIBUS. From a quick visual inspection it only
has power and grant continuity traces on the card edge connectors. The
connection to the controlling KMC-11 is through the 40-pin Berg
connector. So without a KMC-11 an alternate interface through the
40-pin Berg connector would be needed. 
8 Oct
8 Oct
3:28 p.m.
Hey Dave,
I think the two guys working the tools originally were Bob Rosenbaum
and Harvey Schlesinger.
You are pretty much correct on the diffs between KMC and DMC. KMC had
180NS instruction time, and larger ram than the DMC iirc on that
point.
I worked on both with Remi Lissee.
I designed the DMC line units, and the line united we used in the
Autodin II system - CSS took over the cards.
DOn't forget about the Triax with special modem built i for DMC11.
Those were done for JPL and some others...
The COMM IOP for Autodin II handled a separate set of cards, sync or
async - supporting SDLC/BiSYNC,and Isoc.
After the design of the Autodin chips were done - 2652/5025 - the spec
was changed to add a couple of new CRC requirements,
mathematically insignificant but algorithms designed by Georgia Tech
and Cartwr was in office.... So, Zereski and I did a drop in chip
that would add that algorithm set in addition to the nrom VRC/LRC/CRC
one we had already done i nthe chips - 2652 was mine, 5025 was Frank
Z's.
bob smith
badge xxxx
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 3:11 PM Dave Mitton via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2020 11:29:43 -0700
From: Glen Slick <glen.slick at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Remote job submission from PDP-11
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 11:04 AM Paul Koning <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
does Unibus cycles
to another device on behalf of the host. The
idea is to offload operations so the host can ask for block
transfers and the KMC does the individual character I/O operations needed.
My first job at DEC was to release the KMC-11 Programmer's Tools
support for RSX-11.
(I didn't write them from scratch, two other engineers did that, but
I did do final debug and QA)
We provided two firmware kit products; the CommIOP-DUP and DZ, which
controlled the DUP-11 and DZ-11 respectively.
The KMC-11 could do NPR bus transfers to/from the devices, and the
CommIOP-DUP firmware could do Bisync or X.25 type framing so that you
got an RSX-11 driver with a packet interface, vs byte at a
time. The CommIO-DZ firmware provided various customizable state
driven things as you might want for a line driven terminal
concentrator. I'm pretty sure the packages came with the "source"
code, so you could customize it if you could understand it.
The DMC-11 did DDMCP support and was basically a KMC with ROM in the
control store. And it did use that external connector to the
proprietary network interface card, DMC-11DA.
In later years, I wrote and released a KMC Tools package for
VMS-11. That came with a VMS DMA LP-11 line printer driver I authored.
I don't remember if the CommIOP tools were supported. Some VMS
engineers didn't like these products. (another story)
(That didn't stop the Lab products guys in Marlboro from using them
for their applications)
There was a later version called the KMC-11B which doubled the memory
and probably ran faster too. It was the same board as the DMP-11
product which was an improved version of the DMC-11.
These were quad Unibus boards. In the Q bus world, there was a 6502
based I/O processor card developed (outside of Networks) (as one-chip
micros became available) as well.
I have a KMC-11 Programmer's Manual here... I think you'll need a
print set to figure out that connector.
Dave.
> On Oct 7, 2020, at 12:06 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk
<cctalk at
classiccmp.org> wrote:
...
I was curious about this DEC M8704 DMS11-DA that sold cheap a few days
ago. It has eight SMC COM5025 "Multi-Protocol Universal Synchronous
Receiver/Transmitter USYNR/T" chips:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373243388363
Apparently it can't do anything on its own. It needs to be connected
to a UNIBUS through a companion KMC11 processor board, which might not
be too common if someone wanted to put together a working
configuration.
That model number isn't familiar.
A KMC-11 is simply a microprocessor that sits on the Unibus and
That said, it clearly is not correct that "it can't do anything
on its
own". The KMC-11 reaches into the device via its Unibus
CSRs. If you can find a description of its operation, or reverse
engineer it, you can clearly write a device driver for it that
doesn't rely on a KMC-11.
paul
Well it does appear that M8704 DMS11-DA "can't do anything on its own"
directly through the UNIBUS. From a quick visual inspection it only
has power and grant continuity traces on the card edge connectors. The
connection to the controlling KMC-11 is through the 40-pin Berg
connector. So without a KMC-11 an alternate interface through the
40-pin Berg connector would be needed.
1536
days inactive
1536
days old
1 comments
2 participants
participants (2)
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bobsmithofd＠gmail.com -
dave＠mitton.com