15 Dec
2008
15 Dec
'08
12:03 p.m.
First, I know approximately nothing about old Intel chips, so forgive
any incoherence.
A friend of mine just came across a couple of Intel 8008 chips.
Apparently, some ebay sellers think they're solid gold.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260099837541
As far as we can tell, that's what Mel has.
Anyway, I told him I'd try to find out what it's actually worth and
whether anyone here is willing to pay whatever's reasonable.
He also has some later 8008s without the gold cap.
Doc
15 Dec
15 Dec
12:25 p.m.
hehe wishful thinking on the part of the seller. I have one in a PCB
rescued from a piece of HP (voltmeter iirc)
perhaps I should put in a bank deposit box
Dave Caroline
12:37 p.m.
Doc Shipley wrote:
First, I know approximately nothing about old Intel
chips, so forgive
any incoherence.
A friend of mine just came across a couple of Intel 8008 chips.
Apparently, some ebay sellers think they're solid gold.
So, is anyone counterfeiting them yet? It wouldn't surprise me - after all
presumably people don't generally sell them as "tested and working"
anyway...
cheers
Jules
2:01 p.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
Remarked SID chips sold as new:
http://kevtris.org/Projects/sid/remarked_sids.html
Cheers,
Bryan
So, is anyone
counterfeiting them yet? It wouldn't surprise me - after all
presumably people don't generally sell them as "tested and working"
anyway...
I think there were bogus SIDs at one point.
Certainly there are bogus tubes.
12:52 p.m.
Doc Shipley wrote:
First, I know approximately nothing about old Intel
chips, so forgive
any incoherence.
A friend of mine just came across a couple of Intel 8008 chips.
Apparently, some ebay sellers think they're solid gold.
It might be the first microprocessor, (i4004 is just a controller...), but what really
made the microcomputer possible is the DRAM. Why dont people collect i1103's ?
Jos
3:05 p.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
I have a bag of 35 NOS type "MF1103P" dated 722x, 18-pin plastic DIP,
gold-plate
pins, made by Microsystems International Ltd. (a briefly-existent Canadian
chip maker). I believe these were 2nd-sourced 1103's, as MIL also made an
MF8008 and MF1702.
I also have a gold-capped C8008. One idea would be to make a period-style
8008 system with all of it.
If I sell them can I retire to Monte Carlo instead?
It might be
the first microprocessor, (i4004 is just a controller...), but
what really made the microcomputer possible is the DRAM. Why dont people
collect i1103's ?
They do. Some of the early RAM fetches HUGE money. Multiple hundreds
for some of the real raries. 
3:28 p.m.
I have a bag of 35 NOS type "MF1103P" dated
722x, 18-pin plastic DIP, gold-plate
pins, made by Microsystems International Ltd. (a briefly-existent Canadian
chip maker). I believe these were 2nd-sourced 1103's, as MIL also made an
MF8008 and MF1702.
I also have a gold-capped C8008. One idea would be to make a period-style
8008 system with all of it.
If I sell them can I retire to Monte Carlo instead?
You could probably get a nice plane ticket.
There is a "missing link" Intel RAM that many chip guys lust for. I do
not recall the number - 210something.
If I look thru my records I can probably remember, but I have too many
things to do right now.
--
Will
--
16 Dec
16 Dec
4:14 a.m.
New subject: [personal] Re: 8008 chips
There is a "missing link" Intel RAM that
many chip guys lust for. I do
not recall the number - 210something.
That's a 2102 if I remember rightly, and I have a 8008 orginal brand new
never used in anti-stat foam.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Donzelli" <wdonzelli at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 8:28 PM
Subject: [personal] Re: 8008 chips
>> I have a bag of 35 NOS type "MF1103P" dated 722x, 18-pin plastic DIP,
>> gold-plate
>> pins, made by Microsystems International Ltd. (a briefly-existent
>> Canadian
>> chip maker). I believe these were 2nd-sourced 1103's, as MIL also made
>> an
>> MF8008 and MF1702.
>>
>> I also have a gold-capped C8008. One idea would be to make a
>> period-style
>> 8008 system with all of it.
>>
>> If I sell them can I retire to Monte Carlo instead?
>
> You could probably get a nice plane ticket.
>
There is a "missing link" Intel RAM that
many chip guys lust for. I do
not recall the number - 210something.
>
> If I look thru my records I can probably remember, but I have too many
> things to do right now.
>
> --
> Will
>
> --
>
>
>
10:55 a.m.
New subject: [personal] Re: 8008 chips
There is a
"missing link" Intel RAM that many chip guys lust for. I
do not recall the number - 210something.
That's a 2102 if I remember rightly,
11:33 a.m.
New subject: [personal] Re: 8008 chips
On Dec 16, 2008, at 10:55 AM, der Mouse wrote:
1Kx1 static RAM? This is rare? Radio Shack even sold them, back when
Radio Shack was still a parts store (276-2501, my notes say). While I
don't think any are obviously marked as made by Intel, I do have a
fair
number of them (most having no obvious manufacturer marking). I think
they work, even....
Not rare at all. I even have two or three of them in the original
Radio Shack blister packs.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
There is a "missing link" Intel RAM that
many chip guys lust for. I
do not recall the number - 210something.
That's a 2102 if I remember rightly,
15 Dec
15 Dec
3:58 p.m.
William Donzelli wrote:
Tell me about it. I've been looking for 1Mx4-bit 20-pin DIP DRAMs for
years. The closest I've come is some 26/20-pin surface mount.
USBID.com has them, provided I fork over $300-$500 MINIMUM order size.
It might be
the first microprocessor, (i4004 is just a controller...), but
what really made the microcomputer possible is the DRAM. Why dont people
collect i1103's ?
They do. Some of the early RAM fetches HUGE money. Multiple hundreds
for some of the real raries. --
Will
Keith
4:08 p.m.
On Dec 15, 2008, at 12:52 PM, Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel wrote:
Not to be argumentative, but...What about the i4004 makes you
think it's just a controller? It seems rather microprocessor-like to
me.
Further, DRAMs have always had better density (one transistor and
one capacitor per bit, versus, what, four transistors or so?) but I
really don't think it's fair to suggest that microcomputers wouldn't
have existed without them.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
First, I
know approximately nothing about old Intel chips, so
forgive any incoherence.
A friend of mine just came across a couple of Intel 8008 chips.
Apparently, some ebay sellers think they're solid gold.
It might be the first microprocessor, (i4004 is just a
controller...), but what really made the microcomputer possible is
the DRAM. Why dont people collect i1103's ?
4:37 p.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
Further, DRAMs have always had better density (one
transistor and one
capacitor per bit, versus, what, four transistors or so?) but I really
don't think it's fair to suggest that microcomputers wouldn't have
existed without them.
I wrote DRAM, but actually meant semiconductor RAM, so also SRAM.
To put it in anther way : there was never a core based homecomputer.
The i4004 is a controller, at least to me, because it is dependent on a specific set of
supporting ciruits (4001,40002 and 4003).
The 8008 is much more general purpose.
Jos
16 Dec
16 Dec
10:42 a.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
On Dec 15, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Jos Dreesen / Marian Capel wrote:
Ahh ok, well in that case, I agree!
Further,
DRAMs have always had better density (one transistor
and one capacitor per bit, versus, what, four transistors or so?)
but I really don't think it's fair to suggest that microcomputers
wouldn't have existed without them.
I wrote DRAM, but actually meant semiconductor RAM, so also SRAM.
To put it in anther way : there was never a core based homecomputer. The i4004 is a controller, at least to me, because it
is dependent
on a specific set of supporting ciruits (4001,40002 and 4003).
The 8008 is much more general purpose.
Hmm. I'll agree that it's quite limited, but it's certainly not
the only processor chip "set" in history.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
1:34 p.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
On 16 Dec 2008 at 10:42, Dave McGuire wrote:
I've always wondered why the National IMP-16 chipset is so widely
ignored. Remarkable for its time (1973) in that it was a 16-bit
design.
Were there any 8008/8080 designs implemented without at least one
other member of the support chipset?
Cheers,
Chuck
On Dec 15, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Jos Dreesen / Marian
Capel wrote:
The i4004 is a
controller, at least to me, because it is dependent
on a specific set of supporting ciruits (4001,40002 and 4003).
The 8008 is much more general purpose.
Hmm. I'll agree that it's quite limited, but it's certainly not
the only processor chip "set" in history.
2:17 p.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 16 Dec 2008 at 10:42, Dave McGuire wrote:
I've always wondered why the National IMP-16 chipset is so widely
ignored. Remarkable for its time (1973) in that it was a 16-bit
design.
Were there any 8008/8080 designs implemented without at least one
other member of the support chipset?
I have a Tektronix cartridge tape drive (ca 1977) here using an 8008.
There doesn't appear to be any other 8008-specific chips in it.
A 2708 EPROM, 8316 ROM, 2 2102 RAMs, 2 GI LSI chips of unknown function.
The rest is a mess of 74 TTL.
I'm reasonably well-acquainted with the 4004 family chips and their
inter-communication and execution cycle, but not so with the 8008.
On Dec 15, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Jos Dreesen / Marian
Capel wrote:
The i4004
is a controller, at least to me, because it is dependent
on a specific set of supporting ciruits (4001,40002 and 4003).
The 8008 is much more general purpose.
Hmm. I'll agree that it's quite limited, but it's certainly not
the only processor chip "set" in history. 
4:08 p.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
Were there any
8008/8080 designs implemented without at least one
other member of the support chipset?
I have a Tektronix cartridge tape drive (ca 1977) here using an 8008.
There doesn't appear to be any other 8008-specific chips in it.
A 2708 EPROM, 8316 ROM, 2 2102 RAMs, 2 GI LSI chips of unknown function.
The rest is a mess of 74 TTL. 
6:39 p.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
Tony Duell wrote:
I don;t have it in front of me, but I don't recall
any 8008-sprcific ICs
(other than the 8008, of course) in the PDP11/34 front panel controller.
Having done a component-level repair to such a baord, I think
Tony's right: there's an Intel 8008 chip, but no other chips
from the "set".
--
John Honniball
coredump at gifford.co.uk
3:28 p.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
The i4004 is a controller, at least to me, because it
is dependent
on a specific set of supporting ciruits (4001,40002 and 4003).
The 8008 is much more general purpose.
How do we DEFINE 'microprocessor' v 'controller'?
"How can you call the 80386 a 'microprocessor'?
It doesn't even have an FPU!"
4:38 p.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
Fred Cisin wrote:
My guess is *Does it have a overflow flag*.
Just a link or carry flag - controller , full flags micro.
Comparing a PDP-8 vs a PDP-11
The i4004 is a
controller, at least to me, because it is dependent
on a specific set of supporting ciruits (4001,40002 and 4003).
The 8008 is much more general purpose.
How do we DEFINE 'microprocessor' v 'controller'? "How can you call the 80386 a
'microprocessor'?
It doesn't even have an FPU!"
I allways thought *built in floating point* was main frame stuff.
12:20 p.m.
New subject: 8008 chips / RAM's
>>>> "Jos" == Jos Dreesen </
Marian Capel <jos.mar at bluewin.ch>> writes:
Jos> ...The i4004 is a controller, at least to me, because it is
Jos> dependent on a specific set of supporting ciruits (4001,40002
Jos> and 4003). The 8008 is much more general purpose.
I would make the distinction on the basis of what you can do with it.
A college classmate of mine built a 4004 based microcomputer in 1974
that was a general purpose machine, just as the early 8008 basd
micros. I would certainly call his creation a microcomputer, not a
controller. It certainly was hairy -- about 100 chips on a large
wire wrap board.
paul
15 Dec
15 Dec
6:02 p.m.
It might be the first microprocessor, (i4004 is just a
controller...),
but what really made the microcomputer possible is the DRAM. Why dont
people collect i1103's ?
Well, I would, if I could find plenty of them at a sensible price. Of
course I 'collect' them to use them, I'd fill up the second memory PCB in
my 9830 with the 32 chips it doesn't have (2K words more of memory), and
add the control locig. Maybe also make a memory ezpnasion PCB for the
9820 (it's indentical to the stnaard memory PCB, and contains just 16
1103s and some decoupling caps IIRC).
-tony
12:53 p.m.
On Dec 15, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Doc Shipley wrote:
First, I know approximately nothing about old Intel
chips, so
forgive any incoherence.
A friend of mine just came across a couple of Intel 8008 chips.
Apparently, some ebay sellers think they're solid gold.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260099837541
As far as we can tell, that's what Mel has.
Anyway, I told him I'd try to find out what it's actually worth
and whether anyone here is willing to pay whatever's reasonable.
He also has some later 8008s without the gold cap.
They're worth $100 absolute max in my opinion, probably half
that. The eBay seller is smoking crack.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
1:49 p.m.
They're worth $100 absolute max in my opinion,
probably half that. The
eBay seller is smoking crack.
And when he sells it for 1300 bucks, he can buy a lot of crack, and
laugh all the way home.
The "super-price" philosophy of surplus and antiques actually DOES
work, but the sellers must have balls of brass and infinite patience.
And a lot of stock with little overhead.
--
Will
2:06 p.m.
Was there not a sale of a "one of everything Intel made" collection in
the last year? I wonder if this guy is trying to recover from the silly
price paid for that collection by parting it out?
I see these chips have no solder on the leads, so are probably pretty
pristine specimens.
I wonder if a really workable counterfeit could made from other than a
different chip with new paint? Hopefully that won't happen, but with
this kind of money involved who knows.
Also, these high dollar listings he did are foolish as he has to pay
real money to list them even if they don't sell. I dont know if there
is a discount by setting up as a store, but epay has gotten expensive if
you pick a price anymore, rather than starting the auction at $1.00 and
letting the item float.
JimW
Dave McGuire wrote:
<snip>
me later 8008s without the gold cap.
They're worth $100 absolute max in my opinion, probably half that.
The eBay seller is smoking crack.
-Dave
16 Dec
16 Dec
2:30 a.m.
On 15 Dec 2008 at 11:06, jim s wrote:
I see these chips have no solder on the leads, so are
probably pretty
pristine specimens.
Might only mean that the chips were socketed (given the period price
of an 8008, not an unreasonable idea).
I wonder if a really workable counterfeit could made
from other than a
different chip with new paint? Hopefully that won't happen, but with
this kind of money involved who knows.
How many chip collectors actually test the chips they receive?
According to some (fairly) reputable sources, chip counterfeiting
isn't all that uncommon:
http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/may06/3423
I sometimes wonder if all of the Chinese sites that pop up when
you're doing a web search for a datasheet aren't part of this action.
Cheers,
Chuck
15 Dec
15 Dec
3:03 p.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Dec 15, 2008, at 12:03 PM, Doc Shipley wrote:
Well that was a given. :)
Hence, "what they're actually worth"
Doc
First, I know approximately nothing about old
Intel chips, so
forgive any incoherence.
A friend of mine just came across a couple of Intel 8008 chips.
Apparently, some ebay sellers think they're solid gold.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260099837541
As far as we can tell, that's what Mel has.
Anyway, I told him I'd try to find out what it's actually worth and
whether anyone here is willing to pay whatever's reasonable.
He also has some later 8008s without the gold cap.
They're worth $100 absolute max in my opinion, probably half that.
The eBay seller is smoking crack.
3:24 p.m.
On 15 Dec 2008 at 14:03, Doc Shipley wrote:
Hence, "what they're actually worth"
Well, if they've got gold, they *obviously* must be worth a lot.
Speaking of which, I discovered that I've got a bunch of InMOS 16Kx1
static RAMs (IMS1400S55) in gold-capped ceramic packages. Are they
used in any vintage equipment or are they better used as fodder for
the scrappers?
Cheers,
Chuck
8:04 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
Speaking of which, I discovered that I've got a
bunch of InMOS 16Kx1
static RAMs (IMS1400S55) in gold-capped ceramic packages. Are they
used in any vintage equipment or are they better used as fodder for
the scrappers?
ISTR a Sun 3-something that used those SRAMs in some way. Cache,
maybe? Possibly a Sun 3-110? The ones I saw weren't gold-capped
ceramic parts, though, just ordinary plastic DIPs.
I have an Oric Atmos fitted with INMOS 2600 DRAMs -- "support your
local chip shop" as the T-shirt used to say!
The RAM:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/2670713527/
The whole PCB:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/2671535624/
The keyboard:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anachrocomputer/2671535896/
--
John Honniball
coredump at gifford.co.uk
16 Dec
16 Dec
11:09 a.m.
On Dec 15, 2008, at 8:04 PM, John Honniball wrote:
That would be the page map; all Sun-3 machines will have that.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Speaking of
which, I discovered that I've got a bunch of InMOS
16Kx1 static RAMs (IMS1400S55) in gold-capped ceramic packages.
Are they used in any vintage equipment or are they better used as
fodder for the scrappers?
ISTR a Sun 3-something that used those SRAMs in some way. Cache,
maybe? Possibly a Sun 3-110? The ones I saw weren't gold-capped
ceramic parts, though, just ordinary plastic DIPs.
1:57 p.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
I knew I'd seen them somewhere. They're used as the writeable control
store RAMs in every classic PERQ after the PERQ 1 (that is, all models
with the 16K WCS CPU board). Few PERQs had Inoms RAMs originally, but I
have good experimental evidence that they work.
Speaking of which, I discovered that I've got
a bunch of InMOS 16Kx1
static RAMs (IMS1400S55) in gold-capped ceramic packages. Are they
used in any vintage equipment or are they better used as fodder for
the scrappers?
ISTR a Sun 3-something that used those SRAMs in some way. Cache, maybe? Possibly a Sun 3-110? The ones I saw
weren't gold-capped
ceramic parts, though, just ordinary plastic DIPs.
YEs, the one I stuck in one of my PERQs was a plasic DIP.
-tony
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