18 Dec
2001
18 Dec
'01
9:30 p.m.
Hi, all.
I had sort of gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this list.
I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with 4 megs of RAM and a
120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to put on it as OS. I have
plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking OS/2, but I threw v3.0
Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt with 4 megs. Oh, yeah. It
had the original reference disk in the floppy drive. I think that's
really why I bought it.
I also have a Model 25 386dx/16 which is one of my favorites. It had
a token-ring ISA adapter, as well as an 8-bit ethernet adapter I can't
ID, no hard-drive, and was set up to netboot. I finally found the J-leg
387 for it, stuck in a 500m drive with EZ-drive, and run PC-DOS &
Lemmings, mostly.
Main questions are, how uncommon are they (I know how cool they are),
is either one worth anything, and is there a contemporary Unix that'll
run on the model 70? Um, that's actually available I mean. All I need is
another Ultrix quest.
Corollary questions: I mentioned earlier that I've found PS/2 adapters
in 7012 series RS/6ks. I still have 'em. The 8514/A with the 512k
daughterboard is recognized in the model 70 by the reference utility,
but Warp pukes on it, and insists on 640x480x16 VGA settings. Did I miss
something? Do I need to "copy the options disk" even though Setup
already sees it?
And, I have the Orchid board with the oddball video output. Are
there cables for that? Will it drive a standard multi-sync display? Is
it worth messing with?
It's so nice to have real brains to pick.
Doc
19 Dec
19 Dec
12:08 a.m.
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc Shipley wrote:
I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with 4
megs of RAM and a
120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to put on it as OS. I have
plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking OS/2, but I threw v3.0
Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt with 4 megs. Oh, yeah. It
had the original reference disk in the floppy drive. I think that's
really why I bought it.
Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model 70 shipped with an IDE
drive.
Main questions are, how uncommon are they (I know how
cool they are),
is either one worth anything, and is there a contemporary Unix that'll
run on the model 70? Um, that's actually available I mean. All I need is
another Ultrix quest.
I have no idea about worth, I guess they are only worth what we PS/2 fans
are willing to pay for them. Personally I probably wouldn't pay more than
maybe $25-30 or so for one, with or without a monitor.
As far as an operating system goes, I know Linux supports the MCA arch,
but most Linux distributions do not ship a boot kernel with MCA support
compiled in. Since you have a small drive, you'd also want a distribution
with a small footprint. Anyone have any recommendations on a particular
distribution?
Corollary questions: I mentioned earlier that
I've found PS/2 adapters
in 7012 series RS/6ks. I still have 'em. The 8514/A with the 512k
daughterboard is recognized in the model 70 by the reference utility,
but Warp pukes on it, and insists on 640x480x16 VGA settings. Did I miss
something? Do I need to "copy the options disk" even though Setup
already sees it?
If I remember correctly, the 8514/A adapter needed an 8514 monitor to do
anything more than 640x480x16 since it used odd frequencies. Maybe a
multisync will work if the sense pins are jumpered correctly on the DB-15?
-Toth
18 Dec
18 Dec
7:58 p.m.
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 00:08:21 -0600 (CST)
From: Tothwolf <tothwolf(a)concentric.net>
To: Classic Computers <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: Speaking of PS/2s...
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc Shipley wrote:
Correct plug into riser from rear where FD drives plugs from front.
It is MCA drive. Very few got upgraded with SCSI MCA card or peecee
IDE card and HD put in. The orignal MCA drives is small, slooow and
usually dead. Hence mine has SCSI stuff put in.
I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with
4 megs of RAM and a
120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to put on it as OS. I have
plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking OS/2, but I threw v3.0
Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt with 4 megs. Oh, yeah. It
had the original reference disk in the floppy drive. I think that's
really why I bought it.
Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model 70 shipped with an IDE
drive. > Main questions are, how uncommon are they (I
know how cool they are),
> is either one worth anything, and is there a contemporary Unix that'll
> run on the model 70? Um, that's actually available I mean. All I need is
> another Ultrix quest.
70'ers worth very little, 5 or 10 each complete as is. Real gems
are A or B models. A is 386dx25 w/ 32K cache, 4 slot 72pin, B is
486DX-25 on same mainboard as A. eg: 8570-Axx or -Bxx look on black
label on rear and on front near base thru a small window. Rarer
still, may have either IBM or reply upgrade board installed aka
peecee in a '70er. Whooo!
If you have bunch of IBM 2MB 85ns simms, chips is same for 2MB 80ns
simms, only move a resistor jumper to empty pads to convert 85 into
80ns simms for A and B series, and few other models that requires
80ns simms. I do that to all of my 2MB simms.
If I remember correctly, the 8514/A adapter needed an
8514 monitor to do
anything more than 640x480x16 since it used odd frequencies. Maybe a
multisync will work if the sense pins are jumpered correctly on the DB-15?
Any clone multisync monitors worth their salt can sync to that I
1024x768 that 8514/A puts out. Reason for using newer monitors
is that 8514 is heavy, bit bulky and usually dim (they were made in
1987-1988 era), only works at 640x480 @60Hz and shimmering, blurry
1024x768. Do not buy 8513, they always require new fly even they
works, focus output on flyback always fails.
Be prepared to rebuild IBM FD w/ new capacitors and relube the lead
screw and it's bearing. Mine was gummed up. Compatiable 44pin edge
connector FDs fits across 50, 50z, all 70 and many 80. Only
difference is different bezels depending on different brands of FDs.
These bezels snaps off by pressing on barbs from rear, no, they only
fit 50, 50z and 70 only. Other bezels for 80, 65 60 doesn't fit
other models.
-Toth
Wizard True blue of 70-A and P75 needs screen debugged, and small
slew of Macs: 475, LCIII+, IIci and empty IIci hacked up box, 8500
and parts of other models. Newer three AMD clones two socket As and
slot A.
19 Dec
19 Dec
7:03 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
I wouldn't even buy a non -BXX series 70. I would take it for free and
find a good home for it though.
Nope. You just need a monitor capable of the weird refresh settings.
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc Shipley wrote:
Nope, definitely ESDI.
I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with
4 megs of RAM and a
120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to put on it as OS. I have
plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking OS/2, but I threw v3.0
Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt with 4 megs. Oh, yeah. It
had the original reference disk in the floppy drive. I think that's
really why I bought it.
Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model 70 shipped with an IDE
drive. Main
questions are, how uncommon are they (I know how cool they are),
is either one worth anything, and is there a contemporary Unix that'll
run on the model 70? Um, that's actually available I mean. All I need is
another Ultrix quest.
I have no idea about worth, I guess they are only worth what we PS/2 fans
are willing to pay for them. Personally I probably wouldn't pay more than
maybe $25-30 or so for one, with or without a monitor. As far as an operating system goes, I know Linux
supports the MCA arch,
but most Linux distributions do not ship a boot kernel with MCA support
compiled in. Since you have a small drive, you'd also want a distribution
with a small footprint. Anyone have any recommendations on a particular
distribution?
As far as Linux, I would suggest Slackware, as it has an MCA bootdisk in
the regular distrib, as well as an MCA kernel. However, your best bet
(with an ESDI box) is probably NetBSD.
Corollary
questions: I mentioned earlier that I've found PS/2 adapters
in 7012 series RS/6ks. I still have 'em. The 8514/A with the 512k
daughterboard is recognized in the model 70 by the reference utility,
but Warp pukes on it, and insists on 640x480x16 VGA settings. Did I miss
something? Do I need to "copy the options disk" even though Setup
already sees it?
If I remember correctly, the 8514/A adapter needed an 8514 monitor to do
anything more than 640x480x16 since it used odd frequencies. Maybe a
multisync will work if the sense pins are jumpered correctly on the DB-15?
7:45 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
That's strange...I pulled out my old worn out books and both say the 70
shipped with IDE drives. Maybe IBM shipped the 70 with both kinds of
drives?
-Toth
Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model
70 shipped with an IDE
drive.
Nope, definitely ESDI.
8:23 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck
wrote:
Have you seen these drives? They're nothing like IDE. They don't even
use the ESDI standard one-signal/two-data cables. It plugs into a
doohickey similar to the ST-506 doohickey on the Mod 50.
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
That's strange...I pulled out my old worn out books and both say the 70
shipped with IDE drives. Maybe IBM shipped the 70 with both kinds of
drives? Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model
70 shipped with an IDE
drive.
Nope, definitely ESDI. 
9:46 p.m.
The 70 came out ONLY with ESDI, the Reply upgrade and other aftermarket
controllers would give IDE, but not the factory. I have tons of various ESDI
drives I need to sell off too, all 3.5" from 20mb to (maybe) 120mb.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Boatman on the
River of Suck
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:23 AM
To: Tothwolf
Cc: Classic Computers
Subject: Re: Speaking of PS/2s...
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
That's strange...I pulled out my old worn out books and both say the 70
shipped with IDE drives. Maybe IBM shipped the 70 with both kinds of
drives?
Have you seen these drives? They're nothing like IDE. They don't even
use the ESDI standard one-signal/two-data cables. It plugs into a
doohickey similar to the ST-506 doohickey on the Mod 50.
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck
wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
>
> > Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model 70 shipped with an
IDE
drive.
Nope, definitely ESDI.
6:30 p.m.
From: "Russ Blakeman"
<rhblakeman(a)kih.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: Speaking of PS/2s...
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:46:21 -0600
Importance: Normal
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
The 70 came out ONLY with ESDI, the Reply upgrade and
other aftermarket
controllers would give IDE, but not the factory. I have tons of various ESDI
drives I need to sell off too, all 3.5" from 20mb to (maybe) 120mb.
True, also 80, 60 and 50, 55sx used ESDI drives either by pass
through or MCA paddle adapters. In many MCA-based industrial, and
many odd network boxens (those black ones), IBM used ESDI
pass-through adapter w/ drive physically bolted to it. Basically
bolted together MCA hardcard. Also P70 used ESDI via cable to the
planar strictly.
On using non-MCA ESDI drives, Not just for IDE adapters there is
SCSI MCA cards, simply pull ESDI drive along w/ adapter if there.
Then put in SCSI card (IBM or non-IBM scsi MCA card and ascsi drives.
I have done this in my 70-A w/ ST5660N and MCS700.
Have you seen these drives? They're nothing like
IDE. They don't even
use the ESDI standard one-signal/two-data cables. It plugs into a
doohickey similar to the ST-506 doohickey on the Mod 50.
Peace... Sridhar
Cheers,
Wizard
10:29 p.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
Yes, I have a dead one around here someplace. It uses a card edge
connector across the back edge of the drive.
-Toth
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck
wrote:
Have you seen these drives? They're nothing like IDE. They don't even
use the ESDI standard one-signal/two-data cables. It plugs into a
doohickey similar to the ST-506 doohickey on the Mod 50. On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
That's strange...I pulled out my old worn out books and both say the 70
shipped with IDE drives. Maybe IBM shipped the 70 with both kinds of
drives? Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model
70 shipped with an IDE
drive.
Nope, definitely ESDI.
9:46 p.m.
Nope, only ESDI. Some of the 50's have a simialr style MFM but none had
factory IDE.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tothwolf
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 7:45 AM
To: Classic Computers
Subject: Re: Speaking of PS/2s...
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
That's strange...I pulled out my old worn out books and both say the 70
shipped with IDE drives. Maybe IBM shipped the 70 with both kinds of
drives?
-Toth
Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model
70 shipped with an IDE
drive.
Nope, definitely ESDI. 
5:28 p.m.
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20 Dec
20 Dec
12:15 p.m.
Are you sure
the drive is ESDI? I think the model 70 shipped with an IDE
drive.
The IBM PS/2 Hardware Interface TechRef contains a pinout of the hard
disk connector. The signals look to be almost a subset of the MCA
signals. It certainly doesn't look like an ESDI interface.
2:06 p.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
The IBM PS/2 Hardware Interface TechRef contains a
pinout of the hard
disk connector. The signals look to be almost a subset of the MCA
signals. It certainly doesn't look like an ESDI interface.
I guess you could call it 'IDE', but it's not the same interface as is
used on more normal PCs.
Maybe this is an early nonstandard IDE implementation? We all know too
well how IBM liked to do things "their way"... We wouldn't have PS/2
hardware at all if IBM had stuck to the then emerging standards of the
time.
-Toth
3:02 p.m.
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3:29 p.m.
Maybe this is an early nonstandard IDE implementation?
We all know too
well how IBM liked to do things "their way"... We wouldn't have PS/2
hardware at all if IBM had stuck to the then emerging standards of the
time.
A standard which IBM set, along with quite a few other things
that either they developed or were an early adopter of. You can
thank the PS/2's for things you use every day, such as VGA, the HD
3.5" floppy drive, PS/2 mouse/keyboard ports, etc.
Jeff
--
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.cchaven.com
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
21 Dec
21 Dec
10:15 a.m.
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I think it could be considered "IDE" in the original sense - Integrating
the controller into the drive, but it is not ATA (AT-Attachment) IDE.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of
your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com
or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc Shipley wrote:
The IBM PS/2 Hardware Interface TechRef contains a pinout of the hard
disk connector. The signals look to be almost a subset of the MCA
signals. It certainly doesn't look like an ESDI interface.
I guess you could call it 'IDE', but it's not the same interface as is
used on more normal PCs. I have a 5870-121...with... a 120M ESDI drive...
Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model 70 shipped with an
IDE drive.
12:28 p.m.
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 08:15:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Ethan Dicks <erd_6502(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Speaking of PS/2s...
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I think it could be considered "IDE" in the original sense - Integrating
the controller into the drive, but it is not ATA (AT-Attachment) IDE.
Right. IDE is catch all for different standards. I once got in big
arguement till blue in the face because I was younger and didn't get
the conception of ATA as IDE. :-) "Intergated Drive
Electronics".
There are two models of 700 and 720 series which are MCA thinkpads
using very rare MCA IDE 2.5" drives. If the HD dies, you're very
SOL literally. Requires $500 adapter, mods to thinkpad hardware to
accept notebook ATA drives.
MCA IDE would describe this correctly.
Cheers,
Wizard
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc Shipley wrote:
The IBM PS/2 Hardware Interface TechRef contains a pinout of the hard
disk connector. The signals look to be almost a subset of the MCA
signals. It certainly doesn't look like an ESDI interface.
I guess you could call it 'IDE', but it's not the same interface as is
used on more normal PCs. I have a 5870-121...with... a 120M ESDI drive...
Are you sure the drive is ESDI? I think the model 70 shipped with an
IDE drive. -ethan
19 Dec
19 Dec
2:25 a.m.
Well it is heavily over-weighted by mini users but the postings go in swings
from pdp and vax to Apple 2s and Amigas. Not to mention
O.T. food
preferences and military affairs. There are some PS2 MCA enthusiasts on
the list, Superdave, and Russ Blake come to mind. I have numerous ones
myself, including an 8570. I can't figure what the Model 25 you have is since
I was under the impression that was an 8086 machine except for one model
that had a 286 running at 10mhz.
You can bring the 70 up to 16 megs and possibly more with a mem card.
To me it was one of my favorite PS2 models. As to Warp choking on anything
higher than 640x480 I seem to remember that was the on-board video limit of
the 70. Possibly the onboard is not disabled.
You can run Linux from it and ISTR that 1 or 2 of the BSDs have been
ported to MCA. The comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware newsgroup is an excellent
mca resource and it's a very friendly group. ISTR mention of the Orchard
board but someone there much more capable than I would be sure to have
answers.
Get back to me off-list after I've time to see if I might have an extra mem
card. Unpopulated tho. You'd need true parity chips.
At the moment all my IBM stuff except an 8590 XP are packed away still
from my recent(relatively) move. I've got a
workstation area in my dining room,
another in my upstairs bedroom with workspace,
Apples in my guest b-r, an
8bit room(mostly Commodore. Atari and CoCo), all with shelving, and a
glassed-in upstairs porch with 5 18"x4'x5' shelving containing monitors and
all-in-ones, stacked IBMs, other machines and peripherals using the
remaining space and I still can't find anything.
How in hell I was able to cram all of it (as well as the clones I abandoned
when I moved) into a 1 b-r apartment is beyond me. Common to all collectors
is the wail of "not enough space". Possibly Sellam and John Keyes solution
of renting a warehouse(s) is the only way. But that would just encourage you
to up the ante. " Oh I've got lots of room now"
Mamas. Don't let your babies grow up to be co(mputer collectors) !!
Lawrence
Hi, all.
I had sort of gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this list.
I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with 4 megs of RAM and a
120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to put on it as OS. I have
plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking OS/2, but I threw v3.0
Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt with 4 megs. Oh, yeah. It
had the original reference disk in the floppy drive. I think that's
really why I bought it.
I also have a Model 25 386dx/16 which is one of my favorites. It had
a token-ring ISA adapter, as well as an 8-bit ethernet adapter I can't
ID, no hard-drive, and was set up to netboot. I finally found the J-leg
387 for it, stuck in a 500m drive with EZ-drive, and run PC-DOS &
Lemmings, mostly.
Main questions are, how uncommon are they (I know how cool they are),
is either one worth anything, and is there a contemporary Unix that'll
run on the model 70? Um, that's actually available I mean. All I need is
another Ultrix quest.
Corollary questions: I mentioned earlier that I've found PS/2 adapters
in 7012 series RS/6ks. I still have 'em. The 8514/A with the 512k
daughterboard is recognized in the model 70 by the reference utility,
but Warp pukes on it, and insists on 640x480x16 VGA settings. Did I miss
something? Do I need to "copy the options disk" even though Setup
already sees it?
And, I have the Orchid board with the oddball video output. Are
there cables for that? Will it drive a standard multi-sync display? Is
it worth messing with?
It's so nice to have real brains to pick.
Doc
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
7:39 a.m.
At 02:25 AM 12/19/01 -0600, you wrote:
I can't figure what the Model 25 you have is since
I was under the impression that was an 8086 machine except for one model
that had a 286 running at 10mhz.
They also had an 80286 version of the 25 as they did for the model 30.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365
http://www.voicenet.com/~generic
Computer & Video Game Garage Sale
I accept PayPal
To subscribe to automatic updates send a blank e-mail to:
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8:21 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Gene Ehrich wrote:
At 02:25 AM 12/19/01 -0600, you wrote:
And also a 386 and 486 (! -- rare) version of the 8525.
Peace... Sridhar
I can't figure what the Model 25 you have is
since
I was under the impression that was an 8086 machine except for one model
that had a 286 running at 10mhz.
They also had an 80286 version of the 25 as they did for the model 30. 
8:56 a.m.
I had one of the 486's but it fell off of my truck as I was going down
the highway and was totaled.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boatman on the River of Suck" <vance(a)ikickass.org>
To: "Gene Ehrich" <gehrich(a)tampabay.rr.com>
Cc: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: Speaking of PS/2s...
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Gene Ehrich wrote:
> At 02:25 AM 12/19/01 -0600, you wrote:
> >I can't figure what the Model 25 you have is since
> >I was under the impression that was an 8086 machine except for one
model
> >that had a 286 running at 10mhz.
>
> They also had an 80286 version of the 25 as they did for the model
30.
And also a 386 and 486 (! -- rare) version of the 8525.
Peace... Sridhar
7:53 a.m.
You speak the truth, as I got the warehouses I started buying more
thinking I had lots of room. I forgot to leave space to be able to work
on items plus be able to get to the many books I have.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Walker" <lgwalker(a)mts.net>
To: "Doc Shipley" <doc(a)mdrconsult.com>om>; <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 2:25 AM
Subject: Re: Speaking of PS/2s...
Well it is heavily over-weighted by mini users but the
postings go in
swings
from pdp and vax to Apple 2s and Amigas. Not to
mention O.T. food
preferences and military affairs. There are some PS2 MCA enthusiasts
on
the list, Superdave, and Russ Blake come to mind. I
have numerous ones
myself, including an 8570. I can't figure what the Model 25 you have
is since
I was under the impression that was an 8086 machine
except for one
model
that had a 286 running at 10mhz.
You can bring the 70 up to 16 megs and possibly more with a mem card.
To me it was one of my favorite PS2 models. As to Warp choking on
anything
higher than 640x480 I seem to remember that was the
on-board video
limit of
the 70. Possibly the onboard is not disabled.
You can run Linux from it and ISTR that 1 or 2 of the BSDs have been
ported to MCA. The comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware newsgroup is an excellent
mca resource and it's a very friendly group. ISTR mention of the
Orchard
board but someone there much more capable than I would
be sure to have
answers.
Get back to me off-list after I've time to see if I might have an
extra mem
card. Unpopulated tho. You'd need true parity
chips.
At the moment all my IBM stuff except an 8590 XP are packed away still
from my recent(relatively) move. I've got a workstation area in my
dining
room,
another in my upstairs bedroom with workspace, Apples
in my guest b-r,
an
8bit room(mostly Commodore. Atari and CoCo), all with
shelving, and a
glassed-in upstairs porch with 5 18"x4'x5' shelving containing
monitors and
all-in-ones, stacked IBMs, other machines and
peripherals using the
remaining space and I still can't find anything.
How in hell I was able to cram all of it (as well as the clones I
abandoned
when I moved) into a 1 b-r apartment is beyond me.
Common to all
collectors
is the wail of "not enough space". Possibly
Sellam and John Keyes
solution
of renting a warehouse(s) is the only way. But that
would just
encourage you
to up the ante. " Oh I've got lots of room
now"
Mamas. Don't let your babies grow up to be co(mputer collectors) !!
Lawrence
> Hi, all.
> I had sort of gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this
list.
> I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with
4 megs of RAM and
a
> 120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to
put on it as OS. I
have
> plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking
OS/2, but I threw
v3.0
> Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt
with 4 megs. Oh, yeah.
It
> had the original reference disk in the floppy
drive. I think that's
> really why I bought it.
> I also have a Model 25 386dx/16 which is one of my favorites. It
had
> a token-ring ISA adapter, as well as an 8-bit
ethernet adapter I
can't
> ID, no hard-drive, and was set up to netboot. I
finally found the
J-leg
> 387 for it, stuck in a 500m drive with EZ-drive,
and run PC-DOS &
> Lemmings, mostly.
> Main questions are, how uncommon are they (I know how cool they
are),
> is either one worth anything, and is there a
contemporary Unix
that'll
> run on the model 70? Um, that's actually
available I mean. All I
need is
> another Ultrix quest.
> Corollary questions: I mentioned earlier that I've found PS/2
adapters
> in 7012 series RS/6ks. I still have 'em. The
8514/A with the 512k
> daughterboard is recognized in the model 70 by the reference
utility,
> but Warp pukes on it, and insists on 640x480x16
VGA settings. Did I
miss
> something? Do I need to "copy the options
disk" even though Setup
> already sees it?
> And, I have the Orchid board with the oddball video output. Are
> there cables for that? Will it drive a standard multi-sync display?
Is
it worth
messing with?
It's so nice to have real brains to pick.
Doc
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
6:52 a.m.
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc Shipley wrote:
Hi, all.
I had sort of gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this list.
I have a 5870-121 that I snarked recently, with 4 megs of RAM and a
120M ESDI drive. I'm wondering what I want to put on it as OS. I have
plenty of Linux/NetBSD critters. I was thinking OS/2, but I threw v3.0
Warp on Saturday night, but it's slow as dirt with 4 megs. Oh, yeah. It
had the original reference disk in the floppy drive. I think that's
really why I bought it.
You might not want to use the original reference disk, as it probably has
been updated since then, and the update will be on the FTP site
(ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/refdisks/).
As far as an OS, Linux and NetBSD will both work. Linux is a bit more
stable, but NetBSD is the better OS, and the stability will be perfect by
next release, and that should be soon. BTW, Warp 4 should run faster than
Warp 3 with a small amount of RAM like that.
I also have a Model 25 386dx/16 which is one of my
favorites. It had
a token-ring ISA adapter, as well as an 8-bit ethernet adapter I can't
ID, no hard-drive, and was set up to netboot. I finally found the J-leg
387 for it, stuck in a 500m drive with EZ-drive, and run PC-DOS &
Lemmings, mostly.
This machine isn't really a PS/2 in the conventional sense. Not a
microchannel box. Which means it's probably less interesting than that
70.
Main questions are, how uncommon are they (I know how
cool they are),
is either one worth anything, and is there a contemporary Unix that'll
run on the model 70? Um, that's actually available I mean. All I need is
another Ultrix quest.
PS/2's are *extremely* common in that HUMONGOUS amounts of them were sold
to (and many are still running at) many financial institutions. They are
beautiful machines that are rock solid, are built like tanks, and never,
ever break.
Corollary questions: I mentioned earlier that
I've found PS/2 adapters
in 7012 series RS/6ks. I still have 'em. The 8514/A with the 512k
daughterboard is recognized in the model 70 by the reference utility,
but Warp pukes on it, and insists on 640x480x16 VGA settings. Did I miss
something? Do I need to "copy the options disk" even though Setup
already sees it?
I believe you should use the latest option disk. BTW, there is no such
thing as an "RS/6000-specific" or "PS/2-specific" option card.
Microchannel is microchannel.
And, I have the Orchid board with the oddball video
output. Are
there cables for that? Will it drive a standard multi-sync display? Is
it worth messing with?
I could give you a copy of my technical docs for this card, if you want.
It's so nice to have real brains to pick.
You're absolutely welcome.
Peace... Sridhar
7:41 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc Shipley wrote:
Sadly, in the last few years IBM has started to make a total mess of their
ftp site. It's starting to make me miss the old BBS.
Oh, yeah. It had the original reference disk in
the floppy drive. I
think that's really why I bought it.
You might not want to use the original reference disk, as it probably has
been updated since then, and the update will be on the FTP site
(ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/refdisks/). As far as an OS, Linux and NetBSD will both work.
Linux is a bit more
stable, but NetBSD is the better OS, and the stability will be perfect by
next release, and that should be soon.
From personal experience, which os is best can only be
determined from the
particular task you want the machine to perform. I've found
Linux to be
better suited for my desktop machines, since Linux seems to support the
really odd and the bleeding edge hardware before BSD gets the same
support. I have nothing against BSD, and often find BSD to be better
suited for long running, extremely stable systems where hardware things
don't need to change much.
-Toth
8:20 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tothwolf wrote:
But for his system, BSD would be better, since it supports all his
hardware, and it runs faster than Linux on old, slow machines.
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck
wrote:
Yeah. I know. 8-(
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Doc Shipley wrote:
Sadly, in the last few years IBM has started to make a total mess of their
ftp site. It's starting to make me miss the old BBS. Oh, yeah. It had the original reference disk in
the floppy drive. I
think that's really why I bought it.
You might not want to use the original reference disk, as it probably has
been updated since then, and the update will be on the FTP site
(ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/refdisks/). As far as an
OS, Linux and NetBSD will both work. Linux is a bit more
stable, but NetBSD is the better OS, and the stability will be perfect by
next release, and that should be soon.
From personal experience, which os is best can
only be determined from the
particular task you want the machine to perform.
I've found Linux to be
better suited for my desktop machines, since Linux seems to support the
really odd and the bleeding edge hardware before BSD gets the same
support. I have nothing against BSD, and often find BSD to be better
suited for long running, extremely stable systems where hardware things
don't need to change much.
8:09 a.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Boatman on the River of Suck wrote:
If the docs include cable P/N and pinouts, I do want. Thanks.
Doc
You might not want to use the original reference disk, as it probably has
been updated since then, and the update will be on the FTP site
(ftp://ftp.pc.ibm.com/pub/pccbbs/refdisks/).
It has been updated and I'm using the update. But having the original
disk made it sweet.
As far as an OS, Linux and NetBSD will both work.
Linux is a bit more
stable, but NetBSD is the better OS, and the stability will be perfect by
next release, and that should be soon. BTW, Warp 4 should run faster than
Warp 3 with a small amount of RAM like that.
Really? I guess I'd succumbed to the idea that "newer = bloated". I'll
try it out, if I can find my parallel-port CD drive.
I believe you should use the latest option disk. BTW,
there is no such
thing as an "RS/6000-specific" or "PS/2-specific" option card.
Microchannel is microchannel.
Does that mean there are adf's for the ethernet adapter that's
considered to be "RS/6000 only"? That would help a lot.
And, I have
the Orchid board with the oddball video output. Are
there cables for that? Will it drive a standard multi-sync display? Is
it worth messing with?
I could give you a copy of my technical docs for this card, if you want.
5:15 p.m.
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1:14 p.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
Anyway, PS/2's are more interesting than your standard, plain-vanilla PC.
Peace... Sridhar
Hi, all.
I had sort of gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this list.
The original charter of this list specifically said that PCs (10 years
old or more) were on-topic here. They're computers after all.
I guess the reason mauy of the regulars here don't talk about PCs much is
that we feel there are some rather better machines around :-)
2:53 p.m.
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4:03 p.m.
On Thu, 20 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
Probably, but that's not saying much :-)....
The problem with PS/2s as far as I am concerned is that they're full of
custom silicon, and the only PS/2 hardware manual I have (Hardware
Interface Technical Reference) doesn't include a single schematic or even
a pinout of all the custom chips. So they're not that interesting for me.
I have all the technical schematics and IBM-internal hardware repair
manuals. What do you need?
Peace... Sridhar
I guess the reason mauy of the regulars here don't
talk about PCs much is
that we feel there are some rather better machines around :-)
Anyway, PS/2's are more interesting than your standard, plain-vanilla PC.
3:05 p.m.
Certainly more time consuming when they need reapir or upgrade (my feelings
strictly)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Boatman on the
River of Suck
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 1:14 PM
To: Tony Duell
Cc: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Speaking of PS/2s...
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
Anyway, PS/2's are more interesting than your standard, plain-vanilla PC.
Peace... Sridhar
Hi, all.
I had sort of gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this list.
The original charter of this list specifically said that PCs (10 years
old or more) were on-topic here. They're computers after all.
I guess the reason mauy of the regulars here don't talk about PCs much is
that we feel there are some rather better machines around :-) 
2:53 p.m.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, Tony Duell wrote:
At least in my case, other than a brief stint with a TRS-80, I've been a
PC user since day one (of me using a computer). Thus PCs are old hat and
mundane to me. Generally, I want to have the newest/fastest/biggest stuff
on my PC.
I retrocompute because there exist different computing cultures out there
than the one in which I developed. Each has its own luring force;
folklore and 'exotic' (to a PC user) hardware and software are common
draws. Newest/fastest/biggest is not a concern here; it is more important
for me to capture a computer in a historically accurate configuration.
Some of the stuff that interests me is not >=10 years old, but you've got
to draw the line somewhere to define what cmps can be classic.
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
I had sort of
gotten the impression that PCs don't count on this
list.
I guess the reason mauy of the regulars here don't talk about PCs much
is that we feel there are some rather better machines around :-)
8421
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8423
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33 comments
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participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
gehrich＠tampabay.rr.com -
jhellige＠earthlink.net -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
jrkeys＠concentric.net -
jss＠subatomix.com -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
rhblakeman＠kih.net -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
vance＠ikickass.org