Dave McGuire wrote: There was also the MIPS Magnum, running Windows NT too, right? Peace... Sridhar

On Tuesday 24 November 2009, Dave McGuire wrote: And the IBM PC Power Series 440/830/850 and (860?) PPC laptop. A few years ago, I converted a few of the 850s to more useful Linux boxes. Pat -- Purdue University Research Computing --- http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/ The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org

Dave McGuire wrote: DECstations usually ran ULTRIX. I think that the only version of Windows NT that ran on a DECstation was an early alpha that was never publicly released.

AST made a number of such cards, and those ones are in fact the direct ancestors of the Orange Micro boards. You can get Orange Micro boards for virtually any PCI or NuBus Mac, although the NuBus ones are harder to find. The 620 is a good all-around-choice because it doesn't need the (easily lost) cable octopus of the 5xx OrangePC cards and it's cheap relative to the line because it has software 3D only (though these cards are loved). Plus, most are upgradeable (mine has a 128MB DIMM in it, and it will have a K6-III 450MHz when it arrives, replacing the crummy WinChip C6 200MHz it has now), and run lots of OSes (the 7300 runs DOS, W95, W98 and NT4, plus MacOS 9.1, of course). Their chief problem is only one DIMM slot, and they aren't OS X compatible, and you can forget about WME, W2K or later, but you could just buy an Intel Mac if you wanted that. If I wanted a cadillac PCI "PC card," though, I'd pick the 660. That has a 3D accelerator as well, and all the advantages of the cheaper 620. The PCfx! was a piece of crap -- the CPU is not upgradeable and it has no L2, despite being positioned as their "gaming" card. People are going to start dumping Power Macs by the truckload very soon, because there is no market for them and thanks to Apple no future for them either, at least through traditional OS X. For people like me who prefer the POWER ISA and have a big investment in the classic Mac OS, this is heaven because any Power Mac can run classic apps, either in OS 9 or Classic under Tiger, and they are about to become really really cheap. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- /etc/motd: /earth is 98% full. please delete anyone you can. ---------------

On Nov 24, 2009, at 12:34 PM, Teo Zenios wrote: Uh. What about if you want (and won't settle for less than) a top- class UNIX workstation on your desk? The best way to do that these days is with a Mac. I've got well over a hundred windows open on the machine I'm typing this on. You can't really do that with A/UX on a Quadra. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Power Macs and PC Compatibility Cards was Re: Ten Year Rule I was just joking about that. A/UX is pretty much useless outside of workgroup server use (which it does well on old hardware), there just isn't much native software or hardware drivers. OSX is like Windows XP/Vista/7 to me, something to do work on. Pre Windows systems were interesting for the hardware , post windows machines are more interesting for the software.

On Nov 24, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Patrick Finnegan wrote: Mmmmmmmm, or that! 8-) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL

----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" <spectre at floodgap.com> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Power Macs and PC Compatibility Cards was Re: Ten Year Rule One of my most notable Mac software hauls came from a guy in CA who used to work at a defense contractor and saved some of the software, then gave it away. I think I got boxed 68K versions of Mathematica, MathCAD, Ashlar Vellum CAD, and some cool utilities. You can find old Mac graphics apps all over the place but anything CAD or scientific is very rare (non student versions are even harder to find). Oddly enough I found an old 68k copy of Designcad at a local thrift, if I didn't recognize the company logo on the all black box I would have missed it (used the DOS version at a previous job in the early 90's).

The first ones were a problem, but my dual 1.25GHz G4 has been steady as a rock (I've had it since 2003 with no problems). Plus, they are the fastest machines that can still boot OS 9, and that makes a big difference in CodeWarrior :) -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- BOND THEME NOW PLAYING: "Nobody Does It Better" from "The Spy Who Loved Me"

----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Lanning" <brianlanning at gmail.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Ten Year Rule I have one of these in a IIfx: http://picasaweb.google.com/teozenios/NubusCards#5074342978870541170 486/100 with a PCMCIA slot you can stick a wireless network card into. Orange Micro sold 286, 386, 486 Nubus cards (I have a 486/133 in a Quadra 950 and a few 386 models). I have 286 bridgeboard in my Amiga 2000 but gave it to a friend and installed an XT instead just to be different. B&W G3's were giveaways a year ago or two ago, early G4 towers seem to heading there now. You have a window of a few years before the price start rising again and the units become hard to find (they all get recycled). Makes me wonder why recyclers have not opened up a warehouse to hold onto the better/cleaner systems for 5 years and make a profit selling on ebay or their own websites.

Even for smaller scrappers or collectors - it really does not make much sense. I will happily scrap out most Macs, Suns, and PeeCees, knowing that the money I get from them can be used to save much better stuff in far more peril. If I wait 5 years for the Macs, Suns, and PeeCees to be worth selling, I will be shaving with that better stuff I passed up. -- Will

Something I always wanted to have: A LC mac and an Apple //e emulation board :D :D :D I have one, but it is too boring. There is nothing I can do with that (beyond music) :)

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Cameron Kaiser <spectre at floodgap.com>wrote: ug, where can I ever get such a thing? color classics keep going for stupid prices on ebay. brian

It could be worse, you could live in Brazil :o) http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-101973188-color-classic-mac-apple-ma… R$ 1750 = Us$ 1030 People are getting **completely** crazy :o)

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote: The se/30 is on my list as well. I think the mac classic has a 68030 also, but I like the look of the se/30. brian

Brian Lanning wrote: Could be wrong, but I thought the mac classic had only a 68k (aka no 030) Thanks Keith

Brian Lanning wrote: There was a lot of repackaging of the same computer that went on with 68K Macs. The Classic was a repackaged SE, The Classic II was essentially an LC II. I had been fiddling around trying to decide which of the old 68K macs I liked the best. At the time, my favorite was the Q800 with a 40MHz processor, which was supported but never released because it was too close in performance to the 840AV. I hadn't played much with the Powerbooks, mostly because they were developed by a different group and we didn't have many prototypes around, so I picked up about a dozen different models the last couple of weeks on eBay cheap so I could get a better feel for them. It's interesting to look at how fast the technology advanced in them through the 90's, and how each one seems to be crippled in a different way so that in the end I didn't end up liking any of the 68K models. The 190cs should have been the best, being the last, but they left out ethernet, for example.

Speaking of Powerbooks... what was the last Apple laptop to include a floppy drive? PPC is okay. I was thinking this would be an ideal way to convert disk images to IIgs compatible floppies. ________________________________ From: Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> To: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 1:57:05 PM Subject: Re: compact macs (was Re: Ten Year Rule) Brian Lanning wrote: There was a lot of repackaging of the same computer that went on with 68K Macs. The Classic was a repackaged SE, The Classic II was essentially an LC II. I had been fiddling around trying to decide which of the old 68K macs I liked the best. At the time, my favorite was the Q800 with a 40MHz processor, which was supported but never released because it was too close in performance to the 840AV. I hadn't played much with the Powerbooks, mostly because they were developed by a different group and we didn't have many prototypes around, so I picked up about a dozen different models the last couple of weeks on eBay cheap so I could get a better feel for them. It's interesting to look at how fast the technology advanced in them through the 90's, and how each one seems to be crippled in a different way so that in the end I didn't end up liking any of the 68K models. The 190cs should have been the best, being the last, but they left out ethernet, for example.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" <mcguire at neurotica.com> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: Re: compact macs (was Re: Ten Year Rule) The Wallstreet had a removable floppy drive, but I think most shipped with CDROM except maybe the original cheap 12" LCD version. There is also a LS-120 superdisk option and ZIP drive along with DVD. Later Lombards and Pismos has LS-120 drive options I think.

Sweet! I knew about ADT, but not ADTPro. That looks like the thing I need, and it runs on OS X as well. Bonus. ________________________________ From: Brian Lanning <brianlanning at gmail.com> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 2:28:51 PM Subject: Re: compact macs (was Re: Ten Year Rule) On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:10 PM, geoffrey oltmans <oltmansg at bellsouth.net>wrote: I've been looking for a good way to do this as well. I was about to attempt the ADTPro with a serial cable thing from a windows machine. I have the cable already, but again, no time. brian

I've done the transfer before on a IIe with a super serial card... pretty nice that Apple put that into their firmware. ________________________________ From: Brian Lanning <brianlanning at gmail.com> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 2:46:28 PM Subject: Re: compact macs (was Re: Ten Year Rule) On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:38 PM, geoffrey oltmans <oltmansg at bellsouth.net>wrote: Ya! Pay special attention to the IN#2 trick. You can attach the cable to the modem port on a 2gs, or to a 2e with a super serial card, then type in#2. It downloads ADTPro into the 2gs/2e without having to boot to any floppy disk at all. No AppleDOS disk requried. Once it's up, you can use it to send over an AppleDOS disk image as the first one to write. It's a great way to bootstrap the computer from nothing, solving the chicken-or-egg problem. There's a youtube video out there showing the procedure. Maybe I should try to play with this tonight. :-) brian

Brian Lanning wrote: I can vouch for ADTpro working well. Peace... Sridhar

----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Kossow" <aek at bitsavers.org> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk at classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: compact macs (was Re: Ten Year Rule) What was crippled in the Mac II and Quadra series? I think it was kind of odd Apple didn't include some cache for the fastest machines like the Q800/840av/950. I have an aftermarket 950 CPU upgrade that is 68040/50 (overclocked 40mhz) with some cache and it is faster then stock for sure. Another machine has a Daystar PPC 601-80 and between that card and the 950 mainboard you can stuff 384MB of RAM and have it usable on the 68K side (no idea what you could use it all for). While the workstations were decent Apple did shortchange everything else so it would not be as fast as the more expensive models (ram limits, bus speed, cpu options, upgrade slots, etc).

I like the SE/30 a lot. I will not part with mine. It was my first apartment server, handling AppleShare for my IIsi and bootblocks to the IIgs, which entirely booted over the network until I got it a hard disk. I really wanted to get the Commodore 128 on LocalTalk but never got around to that. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Angels we have heard on High/Tell us to go out and Buy. -- Tom Lehrer ------

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Jochen Kunz <jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> wrote: I think the breakdown was: - NT 3.1/3.5 supported x86 (i.e., i386+), Alpha, MIPS; - NT 3.51 added PowerPC; - NT 4.0 supported x86, Alpha, MIPS & PowerPC SP1, but PPC was dropped before SP1, I think; - Win2K officially supported only x86 (requiring a 486 or better) and IA-64 (i.e., Itanium); - XP supported x86-32 (Pentium or better), x86-64 & IA-64. There were unofficial, unreleased builds for other platforms - around the end of the NT3 timeframe, there was a SPARC build, and I have heard of builds of W2K for Alpha, developed internally, basically just to keep the code tree cross-platform-portable clean. By XP, it was cross-platform again, inasmuch as it supported IA-64 and later x86-64, so the Alpha build was dropped even internally. AIUI, anyway. -- Liam Proven ? Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 ? Cell: +44 7939-087884 ? Fax: + 44 870-9151419 AOL/AIM/iChat/Yahoo/Skype: liamproven ? LiveJournal/Twitter: lproven MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? ICQ: 73187508