4 Nov
2000
4 Nov
'00
7:33 a.m.
On November 4, THETechnoid(a)home.com wrote:
I checked the line voltage on the outlet and found it
right at 250-253vac
without a load. This circuit is rated at 30AMP, the machine's breaker is
rated at 20AMP, and the machine is supposed to pull a max 8amp on the line
making all things reasonable.
So why no power-on? Nothing spins, no lights on the front-panel, nothing
but the first-stage of the power supply humming slightly.
You mentioned safetey interlocks...Maybe there's a panel interlock
that got jiggled during the move? Try removing and re-seating every
outside panel that you can find.
Have you tried connecting a console terminal to it yet? This may be
way off (I don't know anything about S36 hardware) but an acquaintance
of mine once beat his head against a wall for two days trying to power
up a VAX 8700. As it turns out, you do this by typing a command on
the console processor (a DEC Pro machine) which he hadn't connected
yet.
And...remember the "power-off" command in newer Sun OBP ROMs? A
favorite joke around here is 'why can't I type "power-on" to turn it
back on!!' ...but on newer Alpha machines (DS10, etc), you *CAN*.
There's a PIC17C44 processor in there handling console operations that
has its own little power supply. You can power-cycle the meat of the
machine from a [potentially remote] console port.
-Dave McGuire
4 Nov
4 Nov
2:30 p.m.
On Sat, 4 Nov 2000, Dave McGuire wrote:
On November 4, THETechnoid(a)home.com wrote:
> So why no power-on? Nothing spins, no lights on
the front-panel, nothing
> but the first-stage of the power supply humming slightly.
OK, that's normal. That's the control supply humming. The whole computer
is full of ferroresonant transformers.
You mentioned safetey interlocks...Maybe there's
a panel interlock
that got jiggled during the move? Try removing and re-seating every
outside panel that you can find.
There are no door interlocks. Also, the door latches may seem impossible
to open unless you got the tool, or know how to open them
without. Assuming you didn't get the tool, here's how:
1. Get a *large* paper clip and bend it to form an S.
2. Stick the end of the clip in the hole about 1/2 inch.
3. Move the clip to the left or right, so that the end inside the door
moves toward the *center* of the door panel. You'll need to make the
inside move to the left or right about 1/4 inch.
4. Try to pull the clip out. If you hook something, go to step 5; else go
back to step 2.
5. Pull gently but firmly, wiggling a little (keep in mind that the latch
is plastic and you will break it if you pull too hard, trust me) and at
the same time push and pull on the edge of the door a little. It will
pop open if you've got it right.
6. If you just can't get it, try another door. Some are harder to open
than others, and some have the latches partly broken.
If you get the idea that the latch design on these computers is awful,
you're right :-)
Have you tried connecting a console terminal to it
yet? This may be
way off (I don't know anything about S36 hardware) but an acquaintance
of mine once beat his head against a wall for two days trying to power
up a VAX 8700. As it turns out, you do this by typing a command on
the console processor (a DEC Pro machine) which he hadn't connected
yet.
A console is not required to start it, although you can shut down from
there.
The one thing that strikes me right away, partly because you haven't
mentioned it yet, is the Unit Emergency switch. It must be in the Power
Enable position.
When you press the Power button on the front panel, do you get a Power
Check light, or any light for that matter?
Richard Schauer
rws(a)enteract.com
3:44 p.m.
In <Pine.BSF.4.21.0011042211200.25363-100000(a)shell-1.enteract.com>om>, on
11/05/00
at 12:44 AM, "Richard W. Schauer" <rws(a)enteract.com> said:
OK, that's normal. That's the control supply
humming. The whole
computer is full of ferroresonant transformers.
Cool. So not entirely dead...
There are no door interlocks. Also, the door latches
may seem impossible
to open unless you got the tool, or know how to open them
without. Assuming you didn't get the tool, here's how:
1. Get a *large* paper clip and bend it to form an S.
2. Stick the end of the clip in the hole about 1/2 inch.
3. Move the clip to the left or right, so that the end inside the door
<Snip>
I used a household hammer to flatten a clotheshanger into a hook to fit
the narrow slits and pull the latch. Getting them is getting easier but
you are right that the latch design is aweful. I looked for and did not
find any interlocks for any of the four panels. One of these is covers the
breaker for the ps and the swing-out twinax jack panel.
The machine has two 8" hard disks mounted on thier sides with ends
latitudinal. They are stacked one top of each other in a sturdy rack with
some shock absorbing characteristics.
If you get the idea that the latch design on these
computers is awful,
you're right :-)
A console is not required to start it, although you can
shut down from
there.
The one thing that strikes me right away, partly
because you haven't
mentioned it yet, is the Unit Emergency switch. It must be in the Power
Enable position.
Sure have, it is the big red toggle on the left side of the machine. The
hum does not change
When you press the Power button on the front panel, do
you get a Power
Check light, or any light for that matter?
No, sometimes I think I hear a 'tick' in there but I may be imagining
things. It certainly has nothing to with pressing the power key on the
face panel. I'm supposing that the panel is dependent on other things
than the power supply given the ensybeentsy chicklet power-on button....
Maybe the big-red switch is tarfu. I can check it with my VOM. Should I
hear anything or see anything after hitting that switch? Docs seem to say
I should have a quiet machine but a live panel on which the chicklet power
key resides.
The key position is in the 'service' position which is documented to be
the full features of the machine - no impediments - used for instance to
install the OS or microcode.
If this switch fails, is it possible it is at fault for the 'no lights at
all' condition? It is one of those 'coke machine' keys and I'd rather not
have to tap it with a drill to cycle it a few times....
I was told the machine was fresh from deinstallation and was working. I've
reseated all boards (top rack had several, bottoms have covers on two
empty bays).
Richard Schauer
rws(a)enteract.com
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey S. Worley
President
Complete Computer Services, Inc.
30 Greenwood Rd.
Asheville, NC 28803
828-277-5959
Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com
THETechnoid(a)home.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
5 Nov
5 Nov
1:15 p.m.
On Sun, 5 Nov 2000 THETechnoid(a)home.com wrote:
The machine has two 8" hard disks mounted on
thier sides with ends
latitudinal. They are stacked one top of each other in a sturdy rack with
some shock absorbing characteristics.
8"? Measure again, I think they're 14". BTW pay attention to the little
diagram showing which way to point your thumb when you flip the latch
holding the drives in (they swing out if you hadn't noticed), or else
it'll bite.
Sure have, it is the big red toggle on the left side
of the machine. The
hum does not change
Flipping the Unit Emergency switch won't start the machine nor make a
difference in the buzz. It only enables the power.
No, sometimes I think I hear a 'tick' in there
but I may be imagining
things. It certainly has nothing to with pressing the power key on the
face panel. I'm supposing that the panel is dependent on other things
than the power supply given the ensybeentsy chicklet power-on button....
You're probably hearing the control transformer expanding and crackling
(!) It's normal; they're all ferroresonant, meaning they operate
saturated-core and get hot. The power that goes through these
transformers gets rectified and filtered, but does not go through any
regulator stages- the transformer regulates. It uses the AC frequency and
the core saturation level as constants to maintain a regulated AC voltage
on the secondary. There is a very high voltage (550 VAC) secondary
winding with a (physically) large capacitor across it; don't disturb it,
it's necessary for the regulation.
The control logic is what's going to turn on the main power when you press
the power button. Should it come to it, there is a way to second-guess
that logic and force the power on.
Maybe the big-red switch is tarfu. I can check it
with my VOM. Should I
hear anything or see anything after hitting that switch? Docs seem to say
I should have a quiet machine but a live panel on which the chicklet power
key resides.
That's right. If the switch is off, you will get a Power Check light when
you press the power button. If it's on, the power will come on (it's
supposed to, anyway).
If this switch fails, is it possible it is at fault
for the 'no lights at
all' condition? It is one of those 'coke machine' keys and I'd rather
not
have to tap it with a drill to cycle it a few times....
No. It will (I think) default to the Normal position. I haven't looked
into my System/36 in a while, but I can if you get stuck.
Richard Schauer
rws(a)enteract.com
6 Nov
6 Nov
6:42 a.m.
In <Pine.BSF.4.21.0011052046480.82793-100000(a)shell-1.enteract.com>om>, on
11/06/00
at 03:42 PM, "Richard W. Schauer" <rws(a)enteract.com> said:
The control logic is what's going to turn on the
main power when you
press the power button. Should it come to it, there is a way to
second-guess that logic and force the power on.
What might that be?
That's right. If the switch is off, you will get a
Power Check light
when you press the power button. If it's on, the power will come on
(it's supposed to, anyway).
I get no lights at all with any switch in any position.
> If this switch fails, is it possible it is at
fault for the 'no lights at
> all' condition? It is one of those 'coke machine' keys and I'd rather
not
> have to tap it with a drill to cycle it a few times....
No. It will (I think) default to the Normal position.
I haven't looked
into my System/36 in a while, but I can if you get stuck.
I'm stuck.
Thanks man,
Jeff
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey S. Worley
President
Complete Computer Services, Inc.
30 Greenwood Rd.
Asheville, NC 28803
828-277-5959
Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com
THETechnoid(a)home.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
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