At 22:22 11/19/98 +0000, you wrote: Hi Tony, that's right, only the 9312 is in the box. Hmmm, I just went to the attic and dug through a couple of heaps of non-DEC and DEC manuals. I pulled out a 9312 technical manual of all things from that bunch of stuff. And yes, the '@' prompt is indeed the system prompt. Well Tim S., you were asking about the ROM numbers figuring they might have something to do w/different prompts. The ROM number in my 9312 for the RK06/07 is the '752 ROM you figured. This says that the E20 ROM on the 9312 has the prompt. Digging further through the 9312 manual I learn that the E20 ROM, numbered 23-248F1, is in fact the Console Emulator and Diagnostic ROM. I don't have the ROM part numbers for the M9301 Bootstrap/Terminator module as I don't have a manual but now I bet they are different! I kinda figured that. So the ornery RA60 is not a complication toward this problem for sure. Yes, 'A in' has the cable, 'A out' has the term. Seems I recall you or somebody having a problem with confusing cables and reporting it here some time back. Therefore I was careful to keep the RK cables and RL cables separated when I picked up this truckload of DEC gear back in July. The RK cables were kept w/the RK's. I'm quite sure the correct cable is strung between the RK07 and the flat cable from the RK611. BUT, I'll check to make darned sure the previous owner didn't swap them around! I recall there's an ID tag on that cable w/part number. I'll check it out. I'll try turning it over. I could have accidentally turned it over while doing the pre-powerup checkout (had all the boards out.) I'm usually quite careful like you when yanking stuff apart and putting it back together. As indicated above it's 23-752A9 which lives in ROM socket #1 (E35). FYI, the ROM for the RA-type drives (DU devices) is 23-767A9 which resides in ROM socket #2 (E33). Hmmm, I'll check that but there is absolutely no disk activity when I enter DM at the console. I had the cover off the back of the RK07 so I can see any hint of head motion. I would think that at minimum one stroke of the head actuator would scan for bootable code at this point. Nada. When I find RA60 prints I'll try to figure a way to copy them full size and send them to you. Okay folks, that's two people who need RA60 prints! (Hint, hint :) ) Thanks for the help so far Tony. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

At 01:40 11/20/98 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: -- snip -- Good tip. I'll check that tomorrow. This is indeed a bone-headed thing DEC did. I bet a lot of field engineers were cussing about that. Must have been two different design departments between RK's and RL's (Allison. . . comments?) I have a bulb extractor somewhere around in one my toolboxes. Could still be buried. We recently moved you may recall. I'll try to hunt it up and check for sure with an ohm meter. I'll let you know what's up with them. Seems right recalling the several times I've watched this process on the RK. I'll check for sure. Track 0 is at the outer edge I assume? >> enter DM at the console. I had the cover off the back of the RK07 so I can >> see any hint of head motion. I would think that at minimum one stroke of >> the head actuator would scan for bootable code at this point. Nada. >Hmmm.. The positioner would be on track 0 after a spinup, and the >standard boot is to read track 0, sector 0 into memory >and jump to the start of it. So you might not see any head movement if >there's nothing bootable on the pack. I see. Of course with absolutely no prior knowledge of such details as this I am completely oblivious to what should be what. Now is the time to learn. >Another useful trick is to look at the RK611 registers after the >attempted boot. Do they look at all sane? Any errors? This is the first day ever of me even operating an 11/34A. I'll have to figure out from the rather terse instructions in the user's manual how to find and examine registers. At least the Programmers Console has a variety of good features for this. I'll also report what the registers say on the CRT console after I enter the 'DM' and the '@' prompt comes back. Could be something there you folks could extrapolate. Thanks again for now, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

At 18:46 11/20/98 +0000, you wrote: I thought I should verify this. Seems sometimes when I assume something it turns out wrong. I certainly don't think any of your msgs are flames for ignorance as I know you are the type who is willing to share his knowledge and teach others. You did not get to the level you are simply by getting a book or two and dumping it into your head :) It's experience in the good old School of Hard Knocks, just like me (and I'm getting knocked about a little here:) ) Thanks for the tips Tony! I think I may get some time next week to get back to this project. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

At 21:55 11/19/98 -0500, Christian Fandt wrote: Indeed is an RK cable. time >>> >it's been working but the disk isn't bootable... >>>>> Hmmm, I'll check that but there is absolutely no disk activity when I >> >>OK... Doesn't _sound_ like a dead bulb, then. > >I have a bulb extractor somewhere around in one my toolboxes. Could still >be buried. We recently moved you may recall. I'll try to hunt it up and >check for sure with an ohm meter. Pulled the lamp and it's okay. They lit up in what appears to be a correct manner. Speed OK comes on, Head Load comes on, RTZ comes on, etc. until the system is apparently satisfied. All except the 'A' LED on the 'A' board (can't recall M-number now.) Things have improved a bit. In the time I had today I checked the 'A' bulb on the RK07 and verified that the cable was an RK type. Still didn't bootup. However . . . I swapped the cable for another RK cable. Now after I type 'DM' and hit return the 'A' light comes on along with the LED on the module in the card cage but there is no further action. The diskpak was labeled 'Bootdisk'. I think the previous owner did say he was able to startup the machine a couple days before I picked the equipment up. He left the diskpak in the drive and the drive rode home with it still in. At least the heads retract and automatically lock. Next chance I get at fiddling with this gear I'll try to read some disk-related registers. There is some discussion of them in the RK07 user's manual. Incidentally, after this latest attempt to bootup the machine I hit CNTRL/HALT and then CNTRL/BOOT as usual which prints out the four registers onscreen. Here's what I consistently see after each attempt now: R0: 000000 R4: 173020 R6: 000xxx Old PC: 000xxx Somewhere, SOMEWHERE around this place I have the Printset for the 9312 *and*, as I can decipher from my notes listing the printsets, there exists the ROM listing for same! I just found this out today when I found a small piece of paper listing the printsets I got in that haul in July. The house is a mess as I've been doing remodeling work on it and still hauling over stuff from the old house. Boxes are piled 5 to 7 deep in the areas of the house my wife permits me to put the stuff. If I can get to that printset ROM listing I have a feeling we might find out what that 173020 address means which might point me in some direction. Until later, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

At 03:44 11/21/98 +0000, you wrote: Gee, you're up rather late tonite Tony! :-) Already tried that today. The two RK07's that were useable did not work. One had a terribly noisy spindle bearing and faulted upon spinup and the other has some sort of problem where the Fault light comes on after it does the seek-to-track-zero process. I swapped 'Ready' lamps too. Seems I have just one drive to work with now. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

At 18:32 11/21/98 +0000, you wrote: Tony, do you recall if these bearings could be a standard type from, for example, SKF, IKS, MRC, TIMKIN, etc., etc.? If you had replaced a bearing or two on an RK07 do you still have the old one laying around to get the number from? Would the DEC parts list have the industry std. part number (if not a custom bearing) for them as part of the description? Being an engineer, I know well the folks at both major bearing distributors in Jamestown. Therefore, I should be able to purchase directly from them just about any commercially available bearing. So, an industry part number would help immensely if there's one to be found. In fact, the company which makes the engine bearings for most of the world's military and commercial aircraft has their factories in Jamestown (MRC Bearings). I'm keeping an eye on them to watch for a job in machine control systems and process controls which had been my specialty at ACU-RITE Inc. Anyway, at worst, I can check the bearings and spindle in a parts unit RK07 that I got in the load and use them if needed. I got five of those RK07's in that Great Haul. I really appreciate your time helping with this! But please, don't take time from what you really need to do just to dig into this problem. I can wait as you may have gathered I must keep busy with the two houses, family, and keeping an eye open for a decent engineering job around this area. Also, to help my wife out, I has to compress all the DEC gear and misc stuff into one side of the garage. The 11/34A and the ornery RK07 are easy to roll out but the other RK's (which will be spare parts units on this) are stuffed together. I forgot to mention Tony, I swapped all the boards out using the second RK07 which was said to be part of the working 11/34A system (this is the drive w/lousy spindle bearings). Still had the same problem as we last left it. I put all original boards back to get back to ground zero on this problem. I hope with the on-list communicating we are doing here other folks with less technical experience will pickup a few tips on troubleshooting their problems on their equipment (DEC or even non-DEC.) Oh gee thanks for the "ominous" message here Tony! :-) :-) No, I don't have an extender board. That definitely would be a good tool to have as I plan to keep the MicroVAX II and MicroPDP-11 machines plus maybe the 11/23 in a BA-11 (5.25" box). Anybody out there have a spare extender board they are willing to part with? Hmmm, does Vector Electronics still sell them? I should get a Unibus extender too! Thanks yet again, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/

At 20:04 11/22/98 +0000, Tony Duell wrote: <RK07 bearings> I got a couple of drives which could be considered parts units and one definitely did not have noise or vibration on spinup. Maybe I could swipe a spindle assembly out of it. That's extremely low priority as I don't have the time now nor a decent workshop set up yet plus the fact I need to get rid of some of the extra DEC equipment for space reasons. Yes, at least I've got an RK611 printset in the pile of documents from the haul. Thanks again Tony, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/