Actually, it wasn't. I have been a member almost from day 1, and my first minicomputers If my previous observations on the genesis of the list don't match reality, I'm perfectly willing to be corrected - in fact, I like what I've been hearing about the origins of the list. That said, the vast majority of list traffic seems to focus on minicomputers "and up" (or, and back as it were), and I assumed that it's always been this way. As another member recently noted, much of what tumbles past me on this list is totally outside of my 'classic computer' world. Though, again, I'd have no trouble whatsoever geeking out - and fully - over some mini hardware, if that's the sort of thing I could possibly have room for in my home or my life. This said, it's clear to see that most of the list traffic is well outside of the 8-bit / 16-bit micro era. And if the list is to survive over the long-term, then more of the micro kids like myself need to be brought deeper into the fold. Don't you think? On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Fred Cisin <cisin at xenosoft.com> wrote:

On 10/14/2016 10:06 PM, drlegendre . wrote: Well, I'll throw my own worthless opinion into the mix. Classiccmp to me is mostly a DEC minicomputer list. In fact, if it were retitled as such, I don't think that many posts would be excluded. Having spent my formative years in big iron, the DEC stuff is minicomputer, although an exception might be made for the very high end, such as the VAX 9000 machines--but IIRC, those aren't discussed here. I've used (even as sysadmin) VAX systems and have even been offered one free for the taking. There's no nostalgia there for me, so I haven't bothered. Even Cray-Cyber offers only access to a Cyber 800 system, which is too late for me. Are there any IBM 7070s still in functioning order? Got a 7090 to run FMS on? How about a nice little 1620? Pretty much all gone, mostly due to age and cost of operation. But even if I could have a Univac 1107, complete with peripherals running in my basement, I don't think I would. I've moved on, but the hardware hasn't. Things that were wonderful to behold back then are only mere curiosities today. I'm not the same person I used to be back then, thank heavens. The Thomas Wolfe thing. 8-bit micro CPUs to me were a breakthrough in that real computer ownership was within my means. I recall the withering laugh when showing my newly-assembled MITS 8800 to a co-worker: "You paid $1000 for *that*? It's just a toy!" In retrospect, I probably would have had more fun spending the kilobuck on fast women and booze. In that sense of ownership, I don't really draw much of a distinction between vintage 8-bit micros and modern PCs. Yes, a modern PC can do a lot more than a MITS box, but you'd expect that after 40-odd years. Can you get the same thrill that someone got in 1975 from an 8-bit system? I doubt it. There are still those who like to experiment with old vacuum tubes (valves to you folks in the UK) building a one-bottle regenerative receiver, complete with A and B batteries, but for most of us who have been there, it's not the same. I'm always interested in design documents and other paper that tells me about the thought that went into the creation of a machine, but the machine itself, not so much. So yes, I can see someone get out of the collecting hobby, yet still retaining an interest in old iron. I can read about using arsphenamine to treat syphilis, for example (historically important), without contracting the disease and treating it myself just for "the experience". --Chuck

I treat syphilis, in case anyone on this list requires that. -- ------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com -- Maybe this world is another planet's hell. -- Aldous Huxley ----------------

I don't know about the price of syphilis but the price of treating syphilis has gone through the roof. But I digress... :)

On 10/15/2016 08:06 PM, drlegendre . wrote: Okay, I regret that analogy, however apt or inapt. I should have used smallpox. :) --Chuck

On 10/15/2016 05:49 PM, Steven M Jones wrote: My point blew right past you, apparently--yet I stated it as clearly as I could. So please permit me to try again: When was the last time an audience reacted the way they first did in 1913 upon witnessing the performance of Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring"? Probably never again, as nearly as I can determine. Now, the work barely raises anything more than the standard mandatory standing O--regardless of the performance quality. My use of Ehrlich's treatment for a venereal disease as an example was entirely on-point. Once a treatment for the disease had been discovered, it would never be viewed the same way--the world and its perception had been permanently altered. On the other hand, reading Ehrlich's writings gives us a clue to the way he felt about what he was doing and the significance of his results at the time. Collecting hardware in hopes of repeating the original experience is an exercise in futility. When was the last time you ooh-ed and ah-ed over a color television broadcast? Yet, for me, I recall seeing that NBC peacock display at a friend's home on his RCA set was nothing short of spectacular. While it's no longer spectacular, I can still read accounts of the people behind the technology to get an idea of how significant it was. We are all, hopefully, human and the nature of our minds and existence has shown that we can't go home again. --Chuck

On 10/15/2016 10:48 PM, Steven M Jones wrote: Well, I'm not sure. In 1996 I built a laser photoplotter. See http://pico-systems.com/photoplot.html for some description and a picture. It ran on a Windows 3.1 computer with an ISA bus DMA card. I was still using it to make PC board artwork and stencils for solder paste up to 2014, but was worried the old PC would fail to boot someday. The program that generated the raster image files was written in Turbo Pascal for Windows, run under a virtual machine, and I was not sure I could recompile it, either. I used fpc (Free Pascal Compiler) to recompile it and clean up a bunch of things, then wrote a program that used run-length compression to compress the raster file. I got a Beagle Bone computer, and wrote some code for the PRU to uncompress the run-length encoding on the fly, and emulate the DMA card on the PC. I got all this working in a matter of weeks, and felt REALLY good! I haven't done that sort of software/hardware project in quite some time. Jon