25 Dec
2002
25 Dec
'02
1:04 p.m.
As for a second RX01, I cannot help you. On the 86x0
you have a command
to say that you really want >to play with a second RL02
instead of the
standard one, but it's not very easy to use, and not
really ment for customers to play with. Then again,
there isn't even a
DIR command on the 86x0
console (nor a command file to do the same).
I should read those 8600 manuals but, not having an actual
8600, I lack the incentive :-) On the 11/780 that I
used briefly many years ago, you could get to the console
devices by doing CONNECT CONSOLE within SYSGEN and then
the CSA0: and CSA1: devices were available (this is
under VMS). The EXCHANGE utility could then get to
the RT-11 formatted data. Similar deal for the
VAX 82x0/83x0 and its RX50. I'd expect that something
similar would apply to the VAX 8600.
As for copying the RX01. Install VMS on a drive, and
play with that.
You have a command file for making copies of the console media there.
I seem to remember Gunther and VMS not being such good
friends last time around on a VAX 6000 - maybe he should
try a smaller system first :-)
I'm pretty sure that something like:
$ SYSGEN
SYSGEN> CONNECT CONSOLE
SYSGEN> EXIT
$ MOUNT/FOREIGN CSA1:
$ HELP EXCHANGE
should help (OK - I forget how to drive exchange!).
I don't remember whether the console devices will be
CSA1: and CSA2: or CSA0: and CSA1: ... SHOW DEVICE CS
will sort that out.
Merry Christmas,
Antonio
arcarlini(a)iee.org
25 Dec
25 Dec
2:15 p.m.
Thanks Jonny and Antonio,
Jonny's boot com file helped a little. At least I now know that
something doesn't work (and not just me not knowing what to do :-)
Although it's still looking pretty bad. I'm afraid the cold
garage is causing some damage to the VAX. I did run the TEST
again and got an error where I didn't get one last time. Now
it complains that M8230 is defective ...
I had an error in the second stage of the testing before, very
strange, where the power state of the UNIBUS caused some memory
check to fail or not to fail. I'm afraid that I have some backplane
touble or something. I was going to try booting anyway just to see
how far I could get.
This time I got up until a "BOOT-F-Unexpected Machine Check" somewhere
inside VMB.EXE running. I could never see any sign of special
activity, neither from the RA90 drive nor the UDA-50. The UDA-50
shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in
my VAX6000s. It could be that I messed up the UDA-50s hardware
address, so it may never be talked to. Is there a way of examining
UNIBUS addresses from the console, so that I could see if some
magic number comes up at a certain address on the UDA-50 that
would indicate that I have the right hardware address?
As for VMS, at this time I have the VMS 5.2 disk hooked on the
780, and I would gladly take VMS for now if it would get that
far at all.
regards,
-Gunther
3:43 p.m.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:
Although it's still looking pretty bad. I'm
afraid the cold
garage is causing some damage to the VAX. I did run the TEST
Here in the northern Sierras, it's in the teens at night... white Xmas,
yada/yada... which is why the 11/44 is nestled snugly in the dining room
next to the fridge. A quick look at the Tech Manual shows the operating
environmentals to be 41 - 122 F and 10 - 95%RH non-condensing for the CPU
itself, and 50 - 104 F and 40 - 66%RH for peripherals. The nominal
environment is 70F/45%RH. I don't know what the figures are for an 11/780,
but I bet it's in that range.
Recently I have acquired 24 RL02 packs of various descriptions that I
have been going thru to see whats on them (one has a bootable RT11FB V5.1:
woo-hoo!). The packs are in the (unheated) garage, and I've been keeping
a few in the house to acclimatize as I check them. One, I brought in
cold, let it sit in the drive for half an hour, and then loaded it.
Although it spun up and came 'ready', it was not a happy disk until it had
been run for about two hours, when the random errors finally smoothed out.
I was concerned that I was going to crash my only RL02 drive.
I'd sure like to be able to have The Machinery in one room and me in
another, but no such luck... and I know plenty of folks who spent long
years working in big machine rooms... 90+ dB all the time... no thanks.
The 11/44 fans I find especially annoying - something about the timbre and
spectrum of that sound really grates on me after a few hours... but I'm
stuck with the machine in the house until summer, or I get a place with
enough rooms to have a Computing Facility Wing, raised floors, heavy
power, seperate HVAC.... dream on!
Anyway - maybe a check of the lower operating temp bounds might shed
some light on why your machine is Grumpy...
Cheers and Best of the Season!
John
26 Dec
26 Dec
1:19 p.m.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:
Jonny's boot com file helped a little. At least I
now know that
something doesn't work (and not just me not knowing what to do :-)
Assuming that you have a working disk... :-)
Glad the file came through. Seems some virus catchers are of the opinion
that my boot.com is a virus. :-)
Although it's still looking pretty bad. I'm
afraid the cold
garage is causing some damage to the VAX. I did run the TEST
again and got an error where I didn't get one last time. Now
it complains that M8230 is defective ...
That's definitely a bad sign.
This time I got up until a "BOOT-F-Unexpected
Machine Check" somewhere
inside VMB.EXE running.
Okay. So VMB is running. That's good news. Do you have any kind of system
on any disk, that should boot (Ultrix, VMS, 4.3BSD ?).
I could never see any sign of special
activity, neither from the RA90 drive nor the UDA-50.
It would flicker very briefly, but I suppose you should see some
action. Anyhow, the A or B button should light up if things are working.
I assume you have the cabling correct. You know. The total number of
cables between the UDA-50 and the disk must be an odd number.
And that you have the A and/or B channel selected (matching your cables
connection).
The UDA-50
shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in
my VAX6000s.
That's the normal idle pattern. Shows that the UDA-50 is working
correctly.
It could be that I messed up the UDA-50s hardware
address, so it may never be talked to. Is there a way of examining
UNIBUS addresses from the console, so that I could see if some
magic number comes up at a certain address on the UDA-50 that
would indicate that I have the right hardware address?
Yech. Yes, it can be done. No, I won't try to tell you how. Perhaps
someone a little more familiar with the unibus map and all the stuff can
help out (probably ragge, or someone else who have played exensively with
it). I'm just happy I don't have to. I could probably figure it out if I
had to, but it's a minor headache.
Basically you have to just configure the unibus map, and then find the
UDA-50 in the address range that UBA have. The UDA-50 should be at 772150
(8) in that range.
As for VMS, at this time I have the VMS 5.2 disk
hooked on the
780, and I would gladly take VMS for now if it would get that
far at all.
Well, if you have a known working VMS disk, set it to write protect, and
then try booting it.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
27 Dec
27 Dec
12:42 p.m.
Johnny Billquist wrote:
DANG! How could I make such stupid mistake! It's not like I had
overcome this problem before ... so, thanks for reminging me.
Now, I need some screwing off bulkheads (of which I don't have
enough) to fix that but until then ...
I could never
see any sign of special
activity, neither from the RA90 drive nor the UDA-50.
It would flicker very briefly, but I suppose you should see some
action. Anyhow, the A or B button should light up if things are working.
I assume you have the cabling correct. You know. The total number of
cables between the UDA-50 and the disk must be an odd number. >The UDA-50
>shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in
>my VAX6000s.
That's the normal idle pattern. Shows that the
UDA-50 is working
correctly.
The manual that I have mumbles something about the speed of the
cycle pattern to be significant an might signal an error. Also,
the question still is whether the cycling pattern says that the
UNIBUS is connected properly ... I guess it doesn't have to be
ever addressed by the CPU in order to be showing this pattern.
So, my address jumpers could still be wrong or the DW780 could still
be screwed up a bit, right?
My main concern is that I think I should expect the UDA-50 to
show a different blinking pattern when it is in fact addressed and
is trying to access disks on the SDI cables. The cables being
wrong of disconnected does not keep the KDA-50 from blinking
differently. Since my UDA-50 always keeps cycling, it still looks
as if I have a problem upstream.
I guess I will try network booting the machine next. I did that
with the uVAX II successfully, in the case of the 11/780 I will
just have to load the boot program through kermit over the console.
I guess the proper way would be to generate DEPOSIT commands for
the boot loader (that otherwise would have been sent through MOP)
and send them through Kermit, right? But darn, I don't have a
DEUNA or DELUA ethernet but some other thing that may not even be
supported ... actually, I may have a DEUNA hardware, but I don't
know whether that is working...
regards,
-Gunther
--
Gunther Schadow, M.D., Ph.D. gschadow(a)regenstrief.org
Medical Information Scientist Regenstrief Institute for Health Care
Adjunct Assistant Professor Indiana University School of Medicine
tel:1(317)630-7960 http://aurora.regenstrief.org
5:25 p.m.
On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:
Hum. My manual don't mention anything about speed. Assume it's working
fine for now.
Johnny Billquist wrote:
No problemo. :-)
It would flicker very briefly, but I suppose you
should see some
action. Anyhow, the A or B button should light up if things are working.
I assume you have the cabling correct. You know. The total number of
cables between the UDA-50 and the disk must be an odd number.
DANG! How could I make such stupid mistake! It's not like I had
overcome this problem before ... so, thanks for reminging me. >The UDA-50
>shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in
>my VAX6000s.
That's the normal idle pattern. Shows that
the UDA-50 is working
correctly.
The manual that I have mumbles something about the speed of the
cycle pattern to be significant an might signal an error. Also,
the question still is whether the cycling pattern says that the
UNIBUS is connected properly ...
I don't think it does. It's just showing that the UDA-50 itself is
working. The outside world is not something it cares about. :-)
I guess it doesn't have to be
ever addressed by the CPU in order to be showing this pattern.
Correct.
So, my address jumpers could still be wrong or the
DW780 could still
be screwed up a bit, right?
Yup.
My main concern is that I think I should expect the
UDA-50 to
show a different blinking pattern when it is in fact addressed and
is trying to access disks on the SDI cables.
It should.
The cables being
wrong of disconnected does not keep the KDA-50 from blinking
differently. Since my UDA-50 always keeps cycling, it still looks
as if I have a problem upstream.
Sounds like a correct diagnose. Still, might not show anything if no disks
are connected. I'm not sure about that situation.
I guess I will try network booting the machine next. I
did that
with the uVAX II successfully, in the case of the 11/780 I will
just have to load the boot program through kermit over the console.
That's one way. Another is if you happen to have a KDA50. Then you could
just dump NetBSD on a disk, and then boot it on the 11/780. NetBSD can
boot with VMB nowadays, and I'm certain you have VMB on your RX01.
I guess the proper way would be to generate DEPOSIT
commands for
the boot loader (that otherwise would have been sent through MOP)
and send them through Kermit, right? But darn, I don't have a
DEUNA or DELUA ethernet but some other thing that may not even be
supported ... actually, I may have a DEUNA hardware, but I don't
know whether that is working...
If that other hardware don't behave like a DEUNA, you're in trouble,
yes...
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
6:18 p.m.
Johnny Billquist wrote:
On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:
The manual that I have mumbles something about the speed of the
cycle pattern to be significant an might signal an error.
Hum. My manual don't mention anything about speed. Assume it's working
fine for now.
I have a KDA50, but no cabling for it.
Would be willing to swap for anything intresting...
Johnny Billquist wrote:
No problemo. :-)
It would flicker very briefly, but I suppose you
should see some
action. Anyhow, the A or B button should light up if things are working.
I assume you have the cabling correct. You know. The total number of
cables between the UDA-50 and the disk must be an odd number.
DANG! How could I make such stupid mistake! It's not like I had
overcome this problem before ... so, thanks for reminging me.
The UDA-50
shows the cycling pattern on the LEDs, not unlike the KDA-50 in
my VAX6000s.
That's the normal idle pattern. Shows that the UDA-50 is working
correctly.
Also,
the question still is whether the cycling pattern says that the
UNIBUS is connected properly ...
I don't think it does. It's just showing that the UDA-50 itself is
working. The outside world is not something it cares about. :-)
I guess it doesn't have to be
ever addressed by the CPU in order to be showing this pattern.
Correct.
So, my address jumpers could still be wrong or the
DW780 could still
be screwed up a bit, right?
Yup.
My main concern is that I think I should expect
the UDA-50 to
show a different blinking pattern when it is in fact addressed and
is trying to access disks on the SDI cables.
It should.
The cables being
wrong of disconnected does not keep the KDA-50 from blinking
differently. Since my UDA-50 always keeps cycling, it still looks
as if I have a problem upstream.
Sounds like a correct diagnose. Still, might not show anything if no disks
are connected. I'm not sure about that situation.
I guess I will try network booting the machine
next. I did that
with the uVAX II successfully, in the case of the 11/780 I will
just have to load the boot program through kermit over the console.
That's one way. Another is if you happen to have a KDA50. Then you could
just dump NetBSD on a disk, and then boot it on the 11/780. NetBSD can
boot with VMB nowadays, and I'm certain you have VMB on your RX01.
I guess the proper way would be to generate
DEPOSIT commands for
the boot loader (that otherwise would have been sent through MOP)
and send them through Kermit, right? But darn, I don't have a
DEUNA or DELUA ethernet but some other thing that may not even be
supported ... actually, I may have a DEUNA hardware, but I don't
know whether that is working...
If that other hardware don't behave like a DEUNA, you're in trouble,
yes...
6:36 p.m.
New subject: Reply Trim Rant; was Re: VAX 11/780
On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Kevin Handy wrote:
Johnny Billquist wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Dec 2002, Gunther Schadow wrote:
>
>
>
>>Johnny Billquist wrote:
<New_Year's_Rant>
Is there any reason you can possibly come up with why I should have to
wade thru 126 lines of text I've already read three times, just to get to
your *two line* contribution to the thread????
Some of us are on slow dial-ups, using ASCII-only shell accounts,(me)
and others (in Europe and elsewhere), pay for their connectivity by the
byte...
But I guess it's just too hard for some on this list to have the
consideration to TRIM YOUR REPLIES....
HuffPuff mutter grumble grrfzzzmmmnffzzzz !
</rant>
Okay I feel better now. Sorta...
Cheers
John (Not quite as Grumpy as Fred, but getting closer all the time)
29 Dec
29 Dec
8:14 p.m.
At 05:35 PM 12/27/2002 -0700, Kevin Handy wrote:
[He quoted everything but only added : ]
I have a KDA50, but no cabling for it.
Would be willing to swap for anything intresting...
Do you want cabling ? I probably have a cabinet kit for the KDA50 around
somewhere. I'd be willing to swap it for another parallel card.
--Chuck
28 Dec
28 Dec
12:31 p.m.
Chuck McManis wrote:
At 05:35 PM 12/27/2002 -0700, Kevin Handy wrote:
[He quoted everything but only added : ]
Don't have any parallel cards (but several DHV11's).
Also, don't have anything to plug into a KDA50, even if I had the cables.
Would you want it to complete your cabinet kit?
Mostly intrested in stuff for Linux PC's (3Gb+ disks, interesting
cards, etc.),
and Alpha (VMS) stuff (Oxygen vx1?, scsi controller, etc.), but willing to
be easy ;-)
I have a KDA50, but no cabling for it.
Would be willing to swap for anything intresting...
Do you want cabling ? I probably have a cabinet kit for the KDA50
around somewhere. I'd be willing to swap it for another parallel card.
--Chuck
26 Dec
26 Dec
1:10 p.m.
On Wed, 25 Dec 2002, Antonio Carlini wrote:
It's even easier than that:
$ @SYS$UPDATE:CONSCOPY
It starts like this:
$ @sys$update:conscopy
S Y S $ U P D A T E : C O N S C O P Y . C O M
Save or restore a VMS console medium.
Which CPU kit do you want to build?
78X includes 11/780 and 11/785
8600 includes 8650
8200 includes 8250, 8300 and 8350
[8600, 8200, 78X, 750 or 730, default <unknown>]:
And this is in OVMS 7.3, so it's still around.
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
I should read those 8600 manuals but, not having an
actual
8600, I lack the incentive :-) On the 11/780 that I
used briefly many years ago, you could get to the console
devices by doing CONNECT CONSOLE within SYSGEN and then
the CSA0: and CSA1: devices were available (this is
under VMS). The EXCHANGE utility could then get to
the RT-11 formatted data. Similar deal for the
VAX 82x0/83x0 and its RX50. I'd expect that something
similar would apply to the VAX 8600.
No. The 86x0 usually don't have more than one console drive, so VMS never
expects to find two drives, and if you connect console, you only get CSA0:
(admittedly I haven't really tried what would happen if I actually had two
drives).
What I was referring to was that at the console, you can set the flag
STXALT. To quote the documentation:
" STXALT- This flag is set OFF during console program initialization,
but its state is preserved through console reboots.
The purpose of the STXALT flag is to indicate that disk IO
at the request of the CPU (via the STX registers) is to be
on the alternate console disk (unit #1). This flag is
intended for use by manufacturing and NOT FOR CUSTOMER USE.
When STXALT is set ON all console disk transfers continue to
access RL unit 0; all STX transfers access unit 1."
As for copying
the RX01. Install VMS on a drive, and play with that.
You have a command file for making copies of the console media there.
I seem to remember Gunther and VMS not being such good
friends last time around on a VAX 6000 - maybe he should
try a smaller system first :-)
I'm pretty sure that something like:
$ SYSGEN
SYSGEN> CONNECT CONSOLE
SYSGEN> EXIT
$ MOUNT/FOREIGN CSA1:
$ HELP EXCHANGE
should help (OK - I forget how to drive exchange!).
8042
days inactive
8046
days old
10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Antonio.Carlini＠riverstonenet.com -
bqt＠update.uu.se -
cmcmanis＠mcmanis.com -
gunther＠aurora.regenstrief.org -
jpl15＠panix.com -
kth＠srv.net